being a black man cops pulling up on me guns drawn and all yelling at once is the most deer in the headlights situation i can think of.
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"You told me to..." Body-Cam Footage Released of the Shooting of Danquirs Franklin by a CMPD Officer
- Thread starter ShyMel
- Start date
Yep. Remember the story where the cop shot and killed that guy who was naked? But then again maybe he was hiding a gun up his butthole, right?
I found it hard to tell, was the gun in the door compartment or on his person? I feel like either way, the situation could have been resolved by having him put his hands up or on the back of his head rather than making him reach for the gun and 'fearing for your life'. American cops are such trash.
I watched some show about a bunch of police cadets in training, I think it was on Netflix, maybe Prime, and after watching it I totally see how this can occur all of the time. They train police as if their lives are in danger every second, even as police fatalities have fallen something like 75% since 1960. They don't weed out the obvious gunslinger, aggressive cowboys/cowgirls. So this man was in a position where he was going to die. He tried to comply and still got shot. If we trained our police like they do in the UK or Sweden or hell almost anywhere in Europe this wouldn't have happened.
Why do you think him raising the gun slowly in the air would have had any other result?
They panicked at the sight of the gun and killed him without assessing whether it was a threat. What position the gun was in seems irrelevant considering they killed him while he held it by the slide(?), pointing away from everyone.
Do you have a link to the training and where it's mentioned explicitly? Wouldn't mind looking at it for some insight as imagine it's quite eye opening.
I'll probably never purchase a gun.
I feel like an instance like this is way more likely to happen than one in which I actually need a gun.
I feel like an instance like this is way more likely to happen than one in which I actually need a gun.
It can. There's plenty of super capitalist countries where your common police patrol doesn't carry weapons and where officers get propper training for high stress situations and deescalation.
The US police is just shit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I think of the American understanding of capitalism:
The common understanding for Americans seem to be that capitalism has an end game where everything is for-profit, including essential services like police, healthcare, and prisons. So anything that isn't there yet, is moving towards that direction because of "capitalism" and even people who are doing these jobs are doing it because of the paycheck and/or perks/prestige/power.
So by definition any country that treats essential services as services, with proper training and systems in place to ensure they serve the people rather than themselves, cannot be "super capitalist".
Police is still a public service in america though. And if say, the UK doesn't count as capitalist, there's a really narrow list of countries that do.
Which brings back the point that the police being as trigger happy as they are is a uniquely american problem.
You can have a capitalist system and still have properly trained police. In addition, a capitalist society absolutely can have socialised services (that's the main point in favour of taxation, after all) while still being capitalist.
America is just a crap place to live. The problems here are terrible police training/hiring practices and the second amendment, which is probably the most well known mistake in the American constitution.
User Banned (1 Week): Victim Blaming
Have you watched the video? He wasn't holding the gun, he had in his pocket cause ammurica I need a gun for self protection.
Yes, it's his right as any other American, but is it necessary?
Now some racist and/or scared ppl saw a black man with a gun (I guess you could see it through his shirt/pants) in/near a burger king and called the police, without thinking of the great second amendment, they where just scared because going around with a gun shouldn't be "normal" or a right.
He was a black man in Usa so the scare from some ppl was way more accentuated.
Now, for me the idea of having a gun for self protection is pure bullshit, at least I can barely get it in a home/store situation (barely because we have read multiple times of kids killed by playing with a parent gun at home, in Italy too), but just going around with a gun because you can is crazy.
If someone try to rob your phone on the street you just shoot him? That's the whole idea behind the second amendment?
Oh no, you shot him only if you fear for your life, and do you really think this will ever work?
I would like to see what's the good that second amendment has done in the history of the Usa.
Now, going back to this case, the victim was in the worst possible position (metaphorically and literally) and didn't helped himself going any better by his strange position and lack of communication. He was scared? Yes, of course you can say that by seeing the outcome and know the whole situation.
I've seen black mans got shoted by Usa cops without having any gun and with free hand raised in the air multiple times and I've seen a similar situation where the suspect wasn't receptive with lack of communication and when he had the chance he just assaulted the cops.
Being a cop isn't easy, this is why only who is extremely well trained should he a cop.
The victim in this case just followed the cop oderd to put the gun down because they just told them that there was "a black man with a gun" around there, so they assumed he was holding it for some bad reason, so the victim actually extracted the gun from a semi blind spot.
The whole situation was extremely confused.
I was saying: Just let him raise his (free) hands in the air and then tell him to lay down.
But this wasn't actually applicable because the victim was hiding his hands, he was in a strange position where you couldn't saw exactly his hands movement and the cop just assumed that he was holding a gun cause that is what they told them.
If you add the fast trigger super panicked cop you have this result.
We need to start to go at the head of the problem and think "what are all the causes that lead to that situation?"
And there are a lot of causes, most of them cultural, by absurd laws, by racism, by unfortunate circumstances, by lack of proper training etc.
Just saying shit like "Acab burn them all down" is the same insane shit you hear on muslims after a terroristic attack, it's just braindead nonsense.
Let's start do be constructive and not destructive, otherwise we will have this issue over and over. By just venting on the single cop (or all of them) without thinking at the whole situation that lead at that outcome is just useless and doesn't help fix the issue in the long run.
And don't call this cop apologizing or victim blaming, this is just trying to analyze the fact from multiple perspectives. If you just want to know if I think that the cop is guilty: yes it is, but at the same time I blame whoever put him in that position since he clearly can't do this job, whoever miscommunicated the situation and at the same time I blame the whole gun culture that does only harm.
Well, given how "good" the US police is, a simple phone in your hand would be seen as a gun. So... Yeah...
How do you expect Black Americans to be constructive about this issue? There are systemic issues that a significant portion of the United States fails to acknowledge exist. Even in this circumstance, with video evidence, nothing will be done to the officer. This is a case that has repeated over and over again in this country.
The entire system is intrinsically designed to be denigrating to people of color and it's not getting better. There are not multiple sides to this story. This person decided to work this job, was trained the same way the other officers were, decided to gun down a man, and will not be punished for it. The entire system needs to be reconstructed.
How are the police trained in the US? Like what in the actual fuck.
If (and that's a IF) a police officer uses his weapon over here, thats national news. They use them like once a year or something.
How can one country be so fucking disgusting with basically everything.
If (and that's a IF) a police officer uses his weapon over here, thats national news. They use them like once a year or something.
How can one country be so fucking disgusting with basically everything.
That's mad. American police are so poorly trained and never seemed to be held accountable.
I really don't understand why every black man with a gun is an immediate threat and you can justifiable kill him in the street because of it but white people with guns are patriots and it's so good that they're upholding the amendment.
It's so telling that the NRA never comes out in these situations but I guess they're too busy scaring white people about gangs (read: black people), terrorists (read: Muslims and anyone that looks a bit muslim) and aliens (read: Mexicans and anyone that looks vaguely Latin American) just so they can sell more guns. They're just stoking the flames of racism and fear for profit, they don't give a shit about anyone.
Just. Fuck everyone at this point.
I really don't understand why every black man with a gun is an immediate threat and you can justifiable kill him in the street because of it but white people with guns are patriots and it's so good that they're upholding the amendment.
It's so telling that the NRA never comes out in these situations but I guess they're too busy scaring white people about gangs (read: black people), terrorists (read: Muslims and anyone that looks a bit muslim) and aliens (read: Mexicans and anyone that looks vaguely Latin American) just so they can sell more guns. They're just stoking the flames of racism and fear for profit, they don't give a shit about anyone.
Just. Fuck everyone at this point.
it happens again and again but hey lets criticise POC for kneeling during the national anthem. What a fucked up country. It keeps happening because there are zero consequences for this shit. Zero, those cops are murderers, how is it possible for no action to be taken?
OP
OP
This is one of those tricky situations where hindsight is 20/20 and yeah it looked like he was going to put the gun down but in the heat of the moment you have no idea if he's going to actually put the gun down or fake it and quickly point the gun and shoot you, your partner, or one of the bystanders.
Also it doesn't help that they shout "drop the gun" 20+ times and the victim never communicates back, only reaches for the gun.
Also it doesn't help that they shout "drop the gun" 20+ times and the victim never communicates back, only reaches for the gun.
This is one of those tricky situations where hindsight is 20/20 and yeah it looked like he was unarmed but in the heat of the moment you have no idea if he's actually unarmed or faking it and reaching for an ankle holster while kneeling, then quickly point the gun and shoot you, your partner, or one of the bystanders.
Dont do this.
But one of the first things they notice is he has a gun. Unless the cop was lying when she said "he has a gun" which is hard to tell because the body cam is a good foot lower than her eyes so she could have seen the gun but the body cam just didn't have a good angle.
Also don't do what? Don't entertain the idea that maybe, maybe we should think outside the box of "all cops are cold-blooded murderers who only want to kill black men"? Don't try to consider that the average person will never understand the pressure and stress cops face in these situations?
Did this guy deserve to get shot? No, the cops probably could've handled the situation with a taser, or maybe started a conversation with the guy instead of just shouting at him. But to look at this situation and say "This is straight up murder, fuck all cops" is not helpful.
dont blame the victim.
once you start thinking that Oh But The Cop Has Reason To Think Theyre Still A Threat Cuz XYZ, then you'll always, *always* find a reason to justify the killing.
It definitely is a tricky situation. What were the cops called for originally? A man with a firearm, or crime in progress?
It's not a tricky situation. It's a total failure of police training and protocol that resulted in the death of a man who we can clearly see was complying with their orders. The police need to be held accountable for his death or things like this will continue to happen. Full stop.
Always? Tamir Rice, Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, Willie McCoy are all perfect examples of cops that pulled the trigger when it wasn't justified.
Take a wild guess why this wasn't handled with a taser or why he was being shouted at rather than talked to?
This shit makes my blood boil, so tired of this happening. These fucks kill people and nobody does shit about it. The video is heartbreaking, you can see the life drain out of him. It looks like it was physically impossible for him to drop the gun from the position he had it in, any way he complied he would have been shot.
To hell with all that, cops can get out there and protest minorities being murdered, how many of them do? How many speak up? They have all the power, none of the responsibility, they are only worried about their own. If there were enough cops who wanted positive change it would have been done by now.
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And neither is it justified here. And yet, just like in every single case you mentioned, the cops said they had reason to believe it was justified due to the way the victim behaved. Because hey, once you start looking for a reason, any reason, to shoot... guess what you'll find.
It's very simple.
The cops told the guy to drop the gun/put it on the ground.
He was in the motion to do just that.
Got shot for it.
Cops told him 10/15 times sure, but when he was doing so he got shot for it. Cops should be trained to assess these situations under stress, it doesn't seem like the cop did that, they reacted from being stressed in telling him to do so. It's straight up murder. Don't sugarcoat this
The cops told the guy to drop the gun/put it on the ground.
He was in the motion to do just that.
Got shot for it.
Cops told him 10/15 times sure, but when he was doing so he got shot for it. Cops should be trained to assess these situations under stress, it doesn't seem like the cop did that, they reacted from being stressed in telling him to do so. It's straight up murder. Don't sugarcoat this
So the murdered victim just did what the armed mob aiming guns told him to do 20 times? Wow yeah wtf is wrong with him he should've done more of course they had to kill him.
I feel like we are always being told to try and understand how much pressure and stress cops are under in these situations yet you never ask us to consider the pressure and stress their victims are under when they are suddenly in a situation where they are surrounded by people pointing their guns at them, all shouting at once and you don't even know if following their orders will ensure you get out alive. Cops are supposed to be trained for this yet we hold them less accountable in these situations than the people they murder. Why do we give these people uniforms and guns and then expect them to freak out and start shooting in stressful situations? Fuck then, give me a gun. I'll go out and be a cop if that's all it takes.
And yes, fuck cops. If they aren't the ones brutalizing and murdering black men, what are they doing to fight against it? Why is the system designed to protect itself and basically hand out free vacations instead of trying to hold cops accountable for this? And why are you mischaracterizing people who have a problem with this by making it seem like they are just thoughtlessly saying all cops want to kill black men when that is clearly not what anyone here is saying? What was the point in even making such a exaggerated, disingenuous "quote?"
Gun ownership rights aren't recognized for black people. Owning a gun as a black person only puts undue suspicion on you.
Thing is, this "tricky situation" is one that cops should have been trained to handle. They should be able to tell whether a suspect is complying, or whether they're moving to point the weapon at themselves or another target. They should be ready to make that snap decision, and they should be able to act based on the situation as it unfolds, not purely out of fear.
Civilians aren't trained in how to respond to these situations. They don't have a class in how to properly comply with multiple armed LEOs shouting at them, without doing anything that might even remotely be seen as non-compliance or resistance. Or how to make a scared cop with their weapon drawn not scared of you. Based on the reaction of the officer in this case... what could this guy have possibly done that would result in him not getting shot?
I don't think anyone denies that cops have a dangerous job, but so, so many of them fail to properly deal with the fear that fills them when confronting a civilian they believe to be armed. Like they don't trust their training or their fellow officers or even their own eyes, they end up pulling the trigger out of fear.
I'm not going to feel sympathetic for someone in a stressful job if THEY CHOSE THAT JOB.
No one chooses to be black.
GTFO with this "subtle" victim blaming. I live in NC, occasionally open carry and have interacted wit the police. Still, here. Not dead. Its not a common thing but when it happens most people don't react with crying and wailing and visions of doom when they see someone with a holstered gun. The police fucked up like they do A LOT and here we are yet again.
These amped up and adrenalized cops show up and its like Maslow said, "To the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail" I bet had fewer cops had addressed the situation he wouldn't be dead. It doesn't take 7 cops and 5 cars and lights an sirens going like the Joker is running around the city to handle these situations.
This is what happens when you have a culture of escalation and "better them than me" taught to cops. I don't think there was a situation where this guy was going to walk away alive outside of cops missing vital organs with their bullets.
This is murder and they will walk.
I love how victim blaming doesn't apply to black people murdered by the police, by the way.
This is murder and they will walk.
I love how victim blaming doesn't apply to black people murdered by the police, by the way.
Separately from the story in the OP this is a fact and it's made much worse by the fact that statistically there's a very good chance that a driver in America does in fact have a gun. So paranoia, incompetence, racism AND a lax gun culture all contribute to this heady stew.