Young Australian couple traveling across Asia to prove how safe travel is held in prison in Iran for 3 months now

[Nepenthe]

What would be the reaction here if people blamed her, called her a moron and said they had no sympathy for her?

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Considering the reasons she (supposedly) got arrested in the first place was for being a reporter and (supposedly) hosting progressive political activity outside of Iran, and she was only in Iran to visit family, such a thread would be more sympathetic. Similar to how if these white Australians were, instead, military doctors or something who happened to get caught up like she did, the reactions would also be more sympathetic.

On the other side of the coin, if she had been a tourist blogging about her travels, failing to research the drone laws of the totalitarian regime she was visiting, and then (supposedly) flew a drone into a military airspace, then the thread would probably be a lot less sympathetic.

 

[Kitten Mittens]

Considering the reasons she (supposedly) got arrested in the first place was for political activity outside of Iran, and she was only in Iran to visit family, such a thread would be more sympathetic. Similar to how if these white Australians were, instead, military doctors or something who happened to get caught up like she did, the reactions would also be more sympathetic.

On the other side of the coin, if she had been a tourist blogging about her travels, failing to research the drone laws of the totalitarian regime she was visiting, and then (supposedly) flew a drone into a military airspace, then the thread would probably be a lot less sympathetic.

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Would you automatically believe the Iranian government that she was flying a drone in military airspace?

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Considering the reasons she (supposedly) got arrested in the first place was for being a reporter and (supposedly) hosting progressive political activity outside of Iran, and she was only in Iran to visit family, such a thread would be more sympathetic. Similar to how if these white Australians were, instead, military doctors or something who happened to get caught up like she did, the reactions would also be more sympathetic.

On the other side of the coin, if she had been a tourist blogging about her travels, failing to research the drone laws of the totalitarian regime she was visiting, and then (supposedly) flew a drone into a military airspace, then the thread would probably be a lot less sympathetic.

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To be fair to these people, the Iranian government is an incredibly unreliable narrator when it comes to foreign prisoners.

 

[Nepenthe]

Would you automatically believe the Iranian government that she was flying a drone in military airspace?

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If she left evidence that she was taking photos of her travels using a drone, probably.

To be fair to these people, the Iranian government is an incredibly unreliable narrator when it comes to foreign prisoners.

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Most totalitarian regimes are. But I think we're straying from the point here concerning Iran's reliability. The issue of this tangent right now are what are the parameters for public sympathy when someone is arrested by a foreign government. The idea that people would be less apathetic to Zaghari-Ratcliffe is significantly undercut when you consider the given circumstances for her arrest versus this couple's. She had significant reason to be there; the couple did not. She was arrested supposedly for far less frivolous activity. You'd do better trying to find a thread concerning a minority arrested by a totalitarian nightmare government for vacationing there and (supposedly) being naive about their local laws, and then comparing responses.

 

[Middleman]

There's no rule saying you can't make threads about past events. We just had a thread about the Chilean coup that happened in the 70s.

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That doesn't make it any less of a dumb argument.

That poster was arguing that POC facing miscarriages of justice don't get threads on resetera. Is that your honest assessment of this place?

 

[Nepenthe]

That poster was arguing that POC facing miscarriages of justice don't get threads on resetera. Is that your honest assessment of this place?

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The poster was arguing that glib accusations of reverse racism don't work in this particular scenario, and they posted an arguable example as to why. They were never arguing that all issues concerning POC victims of the state never get posted here at all.

Subsequently, my honest assessment about this place is that there is definitely a difference in how stories concerning white victims and perpetrators are treated versus POC victims and perpetrators, which is simply the natural conclusion of living in the world outside of ERA where most people are biased towards giving white people the benefit of the doubt compared to POC.

 

[yepyepyep]

Why is Nepenthe a mod lol

 

[Dead Man]

Idiots, but harmless ones. Nobody deserves to be in that prison by the sounds of it. Saw an interview with a former inmate, he was talking about being subjected to mock executions and other severe psychological torture.

The reaction would be their would be no reaction because their would be no thread. Take for example Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe a person of color, a journalist, and a dual citizen of Britain and Iran, she has been in Evin prison for over two years over alleged espionage. She also happens to be the cellmate of the female blogger who was arrested in this thread.

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Can you not fix that problem then? Sure, it probably won't get as many replies because it occured some time ago and there is no fresh news I'm aware of, but at least if a thread is made it gives a chance for discussion of her case too.

 

[Middleman]

The poster was arguing that glib accusations of reverse racism don't work in this particular scenario, and they posted an arguable example as to why. They were never arguing that all issues concerning POC victims of the state never get posted here at all.

Subsequently, my honest assessment about this place is that there is definitely a difference in how stories concerning white victims and perpetrators are treated versus POC victims and perpetrators, which is simply the natural conclusion of living in the world outside of ERA where most people are biased towards giving white people the benefit of the doubt compared to POC.

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This thread is full of people - including yourself - who couldn't give a fuck about the fate of this couple because of their race. That's really the bottom line and it's a pretty sad indictment on some posters.

I think it's great that era highlights the injustices that POC face but guess what? It's totally possible to do that without letting the pendulum swing all the way to the other side of "hahaha fuck this white privilege couple, shoulda known better!"

I'd suggest a radical concept like showing empathy to everyone but I'd probably get a fucking boogie gif thrown in my face.

 

[Zelenogorsk]

I feel vindicated in my decision to never travel (also I can't afford it).

 

[Kitten Mittens]

The poster was arguing that glib accusations of reverse racism don't work in this particular scenario, and they posted an arguable example as to why. They were never arguing that all issues concerning POC victims of the state never get posted here at all.

Subsequently, my honest assessment about this place is that there is definitely a difference in how stories concerning white victims and perpetrators are treated versus POC victims and perpetrators, which is simply the natural conclusion of living in the world outside of ERA where most people are biased towards giving white people the benefit of the doubt compared to POC.

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As someone who also inhabits that same real world, it's disturbing to see threads here that resemble those on places we constantly claim to be superior to. And to have it be mod sanctioned is doubly troubling.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

If you're into drones, please look into the regulations of flying one before doing so in another country.

I know it's legal in my country.... to a certain height. Then you would need a permit if you want to make a bird eye shot of a certain location.

Ditto with Tehran. White people, flying a drone in a region where Americans had became infamous due to drone usage without knowing the rules? What were they thinking?

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

The poster was arguing that glib accusations of reverse racism don't work in this particular scenario, and they posted an arguable example as to why. They were never arguing that all issues concerning POC victims of the state never get posted here at all.

Subsequently, my honest assessment about this place is that there is definitely a difference in how stories concerning white victims and perpetrators are treated versus POC victims and perpetrators, which is simply the natural conclusion of living in the world outside of ERA where most people are biased towards giving white people the benefit of the doubt compared to POC.

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Is that really your assessment of the 50 billion 'x while black' threads that surface every week? There's plenty of sympathy to go around.

The reality is that Iran is flagrantly violating international standards of justice and has done so repeatedly. Violating drone laws is obviously an insufficient justification to throw foreign nationals in a prison purpose-built to torture intellectuals and political dissidents. This particular couple are the successors to Kylie-Moore Gilbert, an Australian Islamic Studies Professor arrested on dubious grounds last year, who is also being held in the same prison. The Iranian government is attempting to use all three as a bargaining chip to blackmail the US into releasing this woman:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n-australia-pleads-guilty-to-conspiracy-in-us

Australia just so happens to be caught up in it currently because they have an extradition agreement with the US. At any other point over the past couple of decades, it would be perfectly reasonable to visit Tehran as an Australian. I've been there myself.

 

[ry-dog]

There is far, far to much of a focus on the couple, yeah what they did was stupid, but not jail worthy. Iran is a corrupt country with terrible human right abuse, focus more on that. The couple should be set free, not being held as political prisoners for fucks sakes. Fuck Iran.

Some of these posts are disgusting victim blaming garbage

 

[Akira86]

There's plenty of sympathy to go around.

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laughed my actual ass off

 

[Psittacus]

While in this case it would be pretty safe to assume that flying drones in Tehran isn't a good idea, it's not always easy to be aware of all the laws when you're visiting a new country. For example, even in my country the law on drones isn't very clear (and I wouldn't know it fully) - sometimes some new rules are introduced and sometimes they are removed. Sure, thinks like "don't steal" and "don't kill" are self-evident, but the particularities of each and every law are sometimes too complex.

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The Australian government travel advisory website specifically says that if you fly drones in Iran without authorisation that you can be arrested. Using this website is drilled into us our entire lives, any Australian traveler should know to check it. The place they're in is horrific and in light of that we should be doing all we can to improve their conditions, but them getting arrested in and of itself was easily avoidable if they'd done the bare minimum research.

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

lmao

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Evidently, I'm talking about Era. Are you telling me that there's an epidemic of shitting on PoC on this forum specifically? If so, could you point out some examples?

 

[LittleBee]

Try actually looking this time. Google Shiraz, Persepolis, Isfahan, Tehran, and Mashhad for starters. Check some sites on best places to travel there and check the pictures. We're talking about the home of one of the greatest empires the world has seen. There's a ton of history there.

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I took a look at those places and they're ok I guess, nothing really stands out that makes me want to go there. Plus the fact that you can be put in jail for taking drone footage, who knows what else you can be put in jail for. It makes it even less of a desirable place to go to.

 

[Akira86]

Evidently, I'm talking about Era. Are you telling me that there's an epidemic of shitting on PoC on this forum specifically? If so, could you point out some examples?

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that's your go to? the "umpteen million" X-while black threads posted on ERa. and then hehe, examples, because you want to check my work?

and if this thread is an example of the "epidemic" of 'shitting on white people', could you explain how exactly?

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

that's your go to? the "umpteen million" X-while black threads posted on ERa. and then hehe, examples, because you want to check my work?

and if this thread is an example of the "epidemic" of 'shitting on white people', could you explain how exactly?

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I'm not even going to attempt to parse what you are trying to say in the first instance.

I did not claim that there is an epidemic of 'shitting on white people' on Era. I was responding to the original assertion that there is a demonstrable difference in the way PoC and 'white' victims are treated on Era.

 

[Jesse_and_the_rippers]

It's totally possible to do that without letting the pendulum swing all the way to the other side of "hahaha fuck this white privilege couple, shoulda known better!"

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Would be like if an affluent blogger couple from Argentina was thrown in an ICE camp, and people were blaming them for being in the US.

And fuck the Iranian government. Just because they are Trump's manufactured "enemy" these days doesn't mean we should take their side and believe anything they say. Do we have any proof that the drone was even used onsite? It could have been in their luggage.

 

[faceless]

why are we making this about race and nationality when it should be about some people that broke the law and had to suffer the consequences of getting caught? because Iran is the boogeyman?!?

 

[Akira86]

I'm not even going to attempt to parse what you are trying to say in the first instance.

I did not claim that there is an epidemic of 'shitting on white people' on Era. I was responding to the original assertion that there is a demonstrable difference in the way PoC and 'white' victims are treated on Era.

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well, at least we have been able to proudly address the race question, indicated by all the sympathy that goes around.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Ok so, torturing them is bad, but the people saying they shouldn't be in prison are just not living in reality. If you break the law in any country your going to suffer consequences. You might not agree with it but Iran is a sovereign nation with it's own laws and how they punish people for breaking those laws is up to them. If someone commits a crime in the West we expect them to be punished, so why should it be different for any other country.

Again, and I'll repeat it, I don't agree with the torture, but if flying a drone in Iran carries a jail term, then your going to jail. Here in the UK if your caught flying a drone near an airport, your probably going to jail.

Here are the laws regarding drone flying in Iran if you didn't bother to look them up:

https://www.uavsystemsinternational.com/drone-laws-by-country/iran-drone-laws/

It specifically says not to fly drones over Tehran, that you must have a permit and that you will go to jail for 6 months and then be deported. But let's just ignore those pesky laws because it doesn't fit a narrative.

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I don't think anyone is arguing that what they did was a wise decision. That doesn't make "I have no sympathy for these idiots." a valid response. It's a heartless and cruel response that prioritizes Iran's right to be shit over the lives of people caught for a minor issue.

 

[Jesse_and_the_rippers]

why are we making this about race and nationality when it should be about some people that broke the law and had to suffer the consequences of getting caught? because Iran is the boogeyman?!?

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Because this is the exact language people use to dehumanize refugees and immigrants. The laws and governments are what's stupid, not the victims.

 

[Commedieu]

For fuck's sake do some research before travelling to a country you know nothing about...

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..but we're white?

 

[Kinthey]

Fucking white people trying to fight prejudice in a misguided way

How dare anyone have sympathy

 

[Middleman]

why are we making this about race and nationality when it should be about some people that broke the law and had to suffer the consequences of getting caught? because Iran is the boogeyman?!?

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Because the punishment is fucked commensurate to the crime and were they POC, people here would be willing to have that discussion but because they're white, people are happy to throw away the key.

 

[adz2ka]

Because this is the exact language people use to dehumanize refugees and immigrants. The laws and governments are what's stupid, not the victims.

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Two sides to this I'm afraid. Yes, without a doubt the laws are stupid but that's exactly what they are; the law. When you visit another country, especially one stooped in political controversy, you absolutely need to do your due diligence on tourist safety. As people have mentioned prior in the thread, the Australian tourism board specifically outlines what you can and can't do with a drone.

The couple chose not to do their due diligence and broke a law in a foreign country. This isn't victim blaming, it's just a matter of fact.

The whole other side of this discussion is about the humanitarian violations in a country such as Iran which we all know is very, very sketchy. I prey the couple aren't subject to any torture but I highly doubt it. Hopefully they can educate themselves moving forward after their hopefully harmless release.

 

[FreeMufasa]

If you don't research, be prepared to get clapped up in foreign.

 

[Frostinferno]

I took a look at those places and they're ok I guess, nothing really stands out that makes me want to go there. Plus the fact that you can be put in jail for taking drone footage, who knows what else you can be put in jail for. It makes it even less of a desirable place to go to.

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You may not like it, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to see (getting back to your original comment). Not to mention the welcoming people there and fantastic food.

 

[Reformed Individual]

They knew what country they were going to and that it is hostile to the West.

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Australia isn't the west though.

 

[sphagnum]

Australia isn't the west though.

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Yes it is.

 

[Marshall]

Why is it always white people when it's a story like this

Come on you gotta be safer

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"Wait, you have no right to do this to me!!!"

 

[Kareha]

Australia isn't the west though.

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Britain is though

 

[Reformed Individual]

Yes it is.

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I guess Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and other places are also the west then.

 

[faceless]

Because this is the exact language people use to dehumanize refugees and immigrants. The laws and governments are what's stupid, not the victims.

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your response is to ride the backs on the struggle of refugees and immigrants for tourists?

Because the punishment is fucked commensurate to the crime and were they POC, people here would be willing to have that discussion but because they're white, people are happy to throw away the key.

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c'mon, we all know people are actually *less* inclined to have this discussion when they involve POC.

 

[Kreed]

Because the punishment is fucked commensurate to the crime and were they POC, people here would be willing to have that discussion but because they're white, people are happy to throw away the key.

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1) The topic title and the OP were created specifically to ridicule the couple for wanting to travel to a "dangerous place" to prove to the media that there was "no danger" in traveling there only to find "danger", and the responses are a result of this. The article that is the source of the thread does not attempt to do this. So if you feel the discussion should be different, your grievance starts there.

2) Regardless of your feelings about the posts being generated in this thread, Apples = Apples comparison attempts in regards to "oppressed" ethnic/social groups vs "oppressive" ethnic/social groups and ignoring the history/current statuses of the groups continues to be disingenuous in discussions like these, whether it's discussions about why it should be ok to "Punch down" in comedy/everyone should get the same jokes, "Why isn't there a White History month", "The Men's Rights Movement should be treated the same as the Feminists Movement" etc...

 

[LittleBee]

You may not like it, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to see (getting back to your original comment). Not to mention the welcoming people there and fantastic food.

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Yup, it's totally not for me, I rather check out Vietnam instead.

 

[TDLink]

I guess Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and other places are also the west then.

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You're being obtuse with this argument. Yes, technically Australia is in the Eastern Hemisphere (as is most of Europe mind you), but it is part of "The West" when speaking colloquially because of its close ties to the UK (and by extension the US), not the least of which is still being a member of the Commonwealth, as well as their extremely similar culture to other English-speaking countries (All of which are in "The West").

From Wikipedia, here is what is commonly seen as "The West":

 

[Nida]

Where did they begin their journey, and what countries did they make it through before this happened?

 

[Tzarscream]

Is it so hard to suggest this couple were profoundly stupid in some aspects and yet don't deserve to be imprisoned and tortured in a move to enable Iran to trade them for other prisoners?

Some arguments in this threads from both polar opposites are fucking bizarre.

 

[regenhuber]

Have recently beeen to the UAE and even there you have to walk on fucking eggshells (don't make out in public, don't be gay or Jewish etc.).
Islamic countries are no joke for uninformed Westerners period.

Can't even imagine how Iran must be like these days in this political climate.
Hope the couple is let go soon, unharmed.

 

[Rendering...]

Guess they learned something about the awful shitty countries you can run afoul of as a naive traveler.

Hopefully the story of their experience costs Iran a lot of tourist dollars.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

I guess Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and other places are also the west then.

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Living in South East Asia.

Australia is considered to be in the 'west'. They probably got lost or something.

 

[regenhuber]

Is it so hard to suggest this couple were profoundly stupid in some aspects and yet don't deserve to be imprisoned and tortured in a move to enable Iran to trade them for other prisoners?

Some arguments in this threads from both polar opposites are fucking bizarre.

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Am fairly sure this was a setup.
As in , the IRAN authorities kept an eye on them just waiting for them to slip up.
A couple like this is a hell of a trade chip.

That said, drones are viewed in a very different way in the West (fun pics, hobby) and the ME (death from above).
But unless the couple was flying one next to a military base, I highly doubt anyone would have noticed IF there wasn't surveillance going on.

 

[Deleted member 1589]

Am fairly sure this was a setup.
As in , the IRAN authorities kept an eye on them just waiting for them to slip up.
A couple like this is a hell of a trade chip.

That said, drones are viewed in a very different way in the West (fun pics, hobby) and the ME (death from above).
But unless the couple was flying one next to a military base, I highly doubt anyone would have noticed IF there wasn't surveillance going on.

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You need a permit to fly drones in Tehran, for recreational or commercial use.

 

[mutantmagnet]

Would be like if an affluent blogger couple from Argentina was thrown in an ICE camp, and people were blaming them for being in the US.

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This isn't how the forum works at all. Most people hate Trump so that alone would have us side with this hypothetical Argentinian couple.


What would bring out a defense force (for ICE) is if the Argentinians actually did a crime.


We have examples of this in the forum all the time. Are you a South/Central American minding your own business on your way to work? We'll get angry about ICE. Are you a person who committed an actual crime that rises to the level of felony offense? You'll be criticized for doing that crime in this country while some of us will finger wag at ICE for merely existing.

Get some perspective.

Because this is the exact language people use to dehumanize refugees and immigrants. The laws and governments are what's stupid, not the victims.

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Ok bro. If you want to live with anarchy remove yourself from civilization. Having laws isn't bad. Having laws that support torture is specifically bad and wrong. Thankfully most countries aren't this bad with their laws.

 

[mutantmagnet]

Have recently beeen to the UAE and even there you have to walk on fucking eggshells (don't make out in public, don't be gay or Jewish etc.).
Islamic countries are no joke for uninformed Westerners period.

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Even Morocco and Indonesia. I've been very interested in visiting the former eventually.

 

[Fallout-NL]

ou should always check before doing something that may be unlawful.

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Exactly, a fucking stupid thing to do.

I've been to Iran and it did actually feel like the safest place on earth but I still understood that it was a good idea to not break any laws or piss off the authorities. Should come as a surprise to no one that flying a drone is a great way to do that.