Young woman harassed to the point of police intervention for asking Bernie Sanders a tough question about sexual harassment.

[marrec]

So if I discover something bad is happening but that info was acquired through bad means, that means that I can't find what was discovered problematic? Of course I'm not happy about how she was treated, but I'm also not happy that CNN constantly fumbles these sort of things when I'd just like to be able to trust them.

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Slow down, what I'm trying to do is drill down to what the actual problem is here.

So the "bad" thing that happened was that CNN obfuscated some things that, in your subjective view, would have been relevant to know beforehand.

However, in revealing this obfuscated information, the person in question was treated extremely terribly.

The two things have already happened, the morality of them is not relevant to the questions below.

So lets project this out to the next Bernie Sanders CNN townhall:

1) Do you think Sanders supporters are going to dox people who ask questions

2) Do you think they're going to be justified in doing so

Or would you rather these people not be doxxed?

 

[rras1994]

Certainly more introspective than you, broski.

Comparing women and minorities to the very movement that harassed them. The fuck is wrong with you. Seriously. And desperately trying to paint all Bernie supporters as rabid gaters . the fuck dudebro.

Also good job ignoring my other posts where I literally say I don't condone this.

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A women is being harassed right now. And there are many people in this thread doing a very good job of minimising it and somehow making the real victim Bernie. And as a woman, their rhetoric is very like the way gamergaters tried to minimise the harassment then too. And note, I'm from the UK, I have absolutely no opinion on who gets Democrats primary but I am very disgusted how a number of posters have treated harassment in this thread.

 

[Vyrak]

You didn't answer my question. Does knowing that the questioners have a more than typical interest in the democratic primary lead you to read the question differently?

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Yes of course, what a silly question. The only way someone would disagree with this is if you're assuming every question asked at any point is completely innocent. Knowing who someone is or what someone does SHOULD influence the reading of what they say, it'd be completely irresponsible not to.

 

[TheModestGun]

She's an intern. Not a fucking terrorist.

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We've already established I'm not talking about her. It's clear you don't even understand the whole story if you think the point I'm making is about her.

 

[NoName999]

Also, I like how the female college student and the mother of 2, ie women, are being viewed as shady among the BernieBros.

Like.... you're not making it subtle, guys.

We've already established I'm not talking about her. It's clear you don't even understand the whole story if you think it's about her.

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Look I don't give a shit who they work for or where they work at. They all had valid questions. No ifs/ands/buts. And if the only thing that makes their questions invalid to you is how much money they have or if they're Dem club members, that speaks negatively on you. Not them. Not CNN. And not any other boogeyman in your paranoid mind.

 

[Vyrak]

I'm still waiting for your explanation Vyrak.

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I didn't say it was. Happy?

 

[TerminusFox]

So I need to ask something direct: do ay if you who thinks she would've been harassed had she asked something like

"Senator Sanders, healthcare is important to me, which part of your Medicare for all bill will be your top priority in getting passed?"

Or

"Senator what do you believe our top foreign policy goals should be when you take office?"

Do y'all really think if she asked that that would've brought the knives out so to speak? Be real

 

[The Adder]

Certainly more introspective than you, broski.

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Nah.

Comparing women and minorities to the very movement that harassed them. The fuck is wrong with you. Seriously.

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I mean, firstly Sanders' base is more male and white than any other frontrunner 'cept maybe Biden, but pretty sure moreso than Biden's last I checked. Secondly, can you attest to the gender and race of everyone in this topic justifying this shit with their conspiracy theories? And thirdly, if I owned another human being throwing my hands up and yelling 'I'm black, how dare you accuse me of being a slave owner' wouldn't absolve me of wrongdoing.

Also good job ignoring my other posts where I literally say I don't condone this.

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Also, good job ignoring my other post where I literally say

Gamer Gate also paid lip service to being opposed to the harassment while simultaneously pushing conspiracy theories to make that harrassment seem closer to justified.

Click to shrink...

 

[marrec]

Yes of course, what a silly question. The only way someone would disagree with this is if you're assuming every question asked at any point is completely innocent. Knowing who someone is or what someone does SHOULD influence the reading of what they say, it'd be completely irresponsible not to.

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This is highly paranoid and conspiratorial thinking that leads to this exact problem repeating itself. I cannot imagine living in such a way.

If you think "intern at lobbying firm" is influential enough to change the motivations or content of her questioning, we cannot and will not see eye to eye.

 

[Vyrak]

This is highly paranoid and conspiratorial thinking that leads to this exact problem repeating itself. I cannot imagine living in such a way.

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I guess I'll just take everything Trump says at face value then. Everything is good, Democrats are evil, trans is fake, global warming is a Chinese conspiracy. No collusion.

 

[TheModestGun]

fixed that for you

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What? How does anyone benefit from this? It's a shitty situation all around. At least give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm speaking in good faith. I hope you are as well.

The only people I see benefiting from this are people cynically using this as a cudgel to further a generalization narrative that Bernie and a majority of his supporters are "toxic".

 

[Kitsunelaine]

This is highly paranoid and conspiratorial thinking that leads to this exact problem repeating itself. I cannot imagine living in such a way.

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When you look at the rhetoric they have towards their opposition, rhetoric that often comes from the top, this behaviour makes perfect sense.

What? How does anyone benefit from this?

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So if I discover something bad is happening but that info was acquired through bad means, that means that I can't find what was discovered problematic?

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you get a target, and you have outlined wanting a target, to the point where you evidently do not care about the means of which you get a target

if the shoe fits, wear it

At least give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm speaking in good faith

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That's earned. Not given.

 

[chaostrophy]

What's really important is how much money they got or who the work for.

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Yes, that's important. Rich, well connected people being presented as average voters by for-profit media is a problem. Though of course harassment is repugnant and NOT the way to solve that problem.

This article details the pattern in that Town Hall and why it seems shady. Note in the editor's note that CNN themselves responded to it saying "we should have more fully identified any political affiliations".

 

[Novel]

Berniebro: "berniebro is a slur, we don't exist, and all bernie fans take crticism well"
Also Berniebro: *this thread*

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No, what's clear is centrists are still looking for any reason to blanket attack the left.
Thanks for calling women and minorities white men. Like I really need more of this horseshit in my life.

 

[Iloelemen]

I don't know why you're being to be cute. Stop gaslighting.

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? gaslighting?
Idk, the political nature of this thread made everything in this very messy and caused some peopl to say things that are quite dismissive and deflective of harassment and also have people that's spouting things that are potentially dismissive of the concerns of marginalized groups.

This thread seems to be an open opportunity to deflect criticisms of Sanders and his supporters while also an opportunity to trash on sanders and his supporters (and yes, sanders and his stans should be criticised)

In a word, a mess.

 

[marrec]

I guess I'll just take everything Trump says at face value then. Everything is good, Democrats are evil, trans is fake, global warming is a Chinese conspiracy. No collusion.

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This response makes no sense. Trump is known to be a liar with ulterior motivations, that does not follow that everyone then is a liar with ulterior motivations.

 

[Deleted member 12224]

If you have such little introspection that you respond to

'Y'all are using the same tactics as Gamer Gate'

Not with

'Maybe we should reexamine our approach to this issue, but it's still an issue'

But with

'How dare you infer my side has anyone on it doing such things'

I can't help you, chief.

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Given moderation seems unwilling to call out this behavior, you continue with these obvious workarounds on civility rules governing discourse here.

In an environment where you're not permitted to directly insult other people, it's not clever to invoke a comparison to something that is deemed bad, membership in as bad, and association with as bad, of all possible comparisons, and pretend it's merely a comparison and continue to do so. The selection is intentional, the intent is obvious.

The unearned patronizing stance you take in your posts is amusing to witness, though. Why can't people simply accept the thinly-veiled insult you lob towards them, ignore that insult, and then self-evaluate their actions? Why must they point out the insult? A mystery indeed.

 

[danm999]

Why would the Young Turks even bother doing this shit the Town Hall was fine for Bernie.

 

[Vyrak]

This response makes no sense. Trump is known to be a liar with ulterior motivations, that does not follow that everyone then is a liar with ulterior motivations.

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Well luckily I didn't say that, all I said was someone's agenda can influence what and how they say things which is probably the most uncontroversial thing one can say.

 

[LiquidSword]

Reading this thread all day and the thing you all seem to be drilling down to is that the Bernie conspiracy theorists in the thread see the Dems as an opposition party to Bernie. They are relitigating 2016 again. As a Bernie supporter who knows that he lost the primary fair and square this is just so depressing. You don't trust these people's agendas because they are associated with the only major liberal party in this country, the one Bernie is running to be the candidate for? It doesn't make any sense. Other Democrats are not the "opposition." And the conspiracy you guys are pushing is the reason she is being harrased.

 

[The Adder]

Given moderation seems unwilling to call out this behavior, you continue with these obvious workarounds on civility rules governing discourse here.

In an environment where you're not permitted to directly insult other people, it's not clever to invoke a comparison to something that is deemed bad, membership in as bad, and association with as bad, of all possible comparisons, and pretend it's merely a comparison and continue to do so. The selection is intentional, the intent is obvious.

The unearned patronizing stance you take in your posts is amusing to witness, though. Why can't people simply accept the thinly-veiled insult you lob towards them, ignore that insult, and then self-evaluate their actions? Why must they point out the insult? A mystery indeed.

Click to shrink...

I am invoking the comparison because it is literally being done. I'm not being subtle or cute. I am saying openly and blatantly

YOU PEOPLE ARE DOING THE SAME SHIT AS GAMER GATE. MAYBE FUCKING STOP, YEAH?

 

[Novel]

Nah.


I mean, firstly Sanders' base is more male and white than any other frontrunner 'cept maybe Biden, but pretty sure moreso than Biden's last I checked. Secondly, can you attest to the gender and race of everyone in this topic justifying this shit with their conspiracy theories? And thirdly, if I owned another human being throwing my hands up and yelling 'I'm black, how dare you accuse me of being a slave owner' wouldn't absolve me of wrongdoing.


Also, good job ignoring my other post where I literally say

Click to shrink...

People like you are what's wrong with discourse with centrists in the world today.
You attack minorities and women, tell them to get in line, take part in their erasure by calling them white men, accuse them of things they had no part in and are on nothing more than a vendetta to do precisely the kind of harassment that you claim to despise. As someone who directly dealt with Gamergate, it's fucking insulting as shit that you even compare this to that. That's on top of you trying to blanket smear people.

 

[Iloelemen]

This response makes no sense. Trump is known to be a liar with ulterior motivations, that does not follow that everyone then is a liar with ulterior motivations.

Click to shrink...

The simple truth is that people are skeptical of people that they view as their opposition, and that can lead to messy and harmful things.

 

[B-Dubs]

This conversation didn't recover and as such the thread is closed to further replies.