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Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
I agree Biden should drop by why are people talking about Bernie? Da fuck he has to do with this?

He is losing the primary bigly. The majority of Dem voters specifically rejected him. So why the heck would Biden's delegates go to Bernie? That's the last thing that should happen.

Best thing would be for Biden to drop, and a consensus is reached at the convention for a compromise moderate candidate such as John Kerry. Someone everyone likes.

Bernie is extremely divisive and will never and should never steal the nomination.
So now you have to choose between which rapist you hate the least to run your country. This is the world we live in now?

This isn't a general primary/election thread, but Biden has won around 1100-something delegates so far (Sanders has 800-something, Warren has 70-something). There are over 1700 unpledged delegates left from states that haven't had their primaries yet.

Plenty of time for voters to do the right thing without convention shenanigans.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,567
Leading up to the election this seemed like something that would happen and now here it is...

can we please not do this

even before the allegation, watching this pandemic unfold, the policy responses unfold, and knowing we were nominating someone whose sole appealing point is "a return to normalcy" depressed me

but let's not do this bullshit "see, HERE's your guy" thing, where we go full hindsight bias mode and falsely reward ourselves for somehow "knowing" Biden was a rapist and falsely penalize others for not

I agree Biden should drop by why are people talking about Bernie? Da fuck he has to do with this?

He is losing the primary bigly. The majority of Dem voters specifically rejected him. So why the heck would Biden's delegates go to Bernie? That's the last thing that should happen.

Best thing would be for Biden to drop, and a consensus is reached at the convention for a compromise moderate candidate such as John Kerry. Someone everyone likes.

Bernie is extremely divisive and will never and should never steal the nomination.

oh stop it

if you look at the thrust of the primary, you see this: Bernie is the front runner for a hot minute, does well in all the initial states, is polling well in later states, seems likely to runaway with it come Super Tuesday; the combination of Biden's impressive win in SC, candidates dropping out and endorsing him, and 100 billion worth of top notch pro-Biden media strongly signals to otherwise unsettled voters, hey, here's the guy to unify us and lead us to victory over Trump!!!; he makes a miraculous comeback, kills it on Super Tuesday, becomes all but the presumptive nominee, and unsurprisingly rides that momentum to massive primary win after massive primary win; even after all that, though, Bernie won CA along the way and is still in this, mathematically speaking

what that amounts to is that, because of a combination of factors, voters ended up galvanizing around Biden early on, thinking he'd be the best person to defeat Trump - it does not amount to Bernie, specifically, being rejected, considering the nomination was very much within his reach at one point

what happens, though, if the equation changes? if something happens that proves Biden isn't the best person to defeat Trump? or he drops out? yeah, especially in that latter case, Bernie is the obvious person to take the nomination
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,171
Ahh fair enough. So 8 years of Obama as the light in the darkness? (unless you count George W)

I mean, Obama has no reputable claims of sexual misconduct, but there's certainly a lot more you could rail on him for. "Light in the darkness" is generous to say the least.
 

Deleted member 28564

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,604
Biden has a history with this. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: As long as someone is on your team, swathes of people will continue to support him, even if he has an established history of sexual harassment and rape. Remember how outraged everyone was about Roy Moore? Well, that's because he is a republican. Joe Biden is on our side, so we should just look the other way.

By the way, I love arguments like: "Well, this won't hurt Joe Biden." It shows everyone where your priorities lie.
I agree Biden should drop by why are people talking about Bernie? Da fuck he has to do with this?

He is losing the primary bigly. The majority of Dem voters specifically rejected him. So why the heck would Biden's delegates go to Bernie? That's the last thing that should happen.

Best thing would be for Biden to drop, and a consensus is reached at the convention for a compromise moderate candidate such as John Kerry. Someone everyone likes.

Bernie is extremely divisive and will never and should never steal the nomination.
There are only two candidates still running for the democratic nomination. If one drops out, the other one is obviously the nominee. Especially since there are still delegates that need to be allotted. You're correct in that this topic shouldn't have anything to do with Bernie, however.
 

-Devious-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
202
I agree Biden should drop by why are people talking about Bernie? Da fuck he has to do with this?

He is losing the primary bigly. The majority of Dem voters specifically rejected him. So why the heck would Biden's delegates go to Bernie? That's the last thing that should happen.

Best thing would be for Biden to drop, and a consensus is reached at the convention for a compromise moderate candidate such as John Kerry. Someone everyone likes.

Bernie is extremely divisive and will never and should never steal the nomination.
People tend to forget that the media played a huge reason as to why Bernie is considered "divisive." From being labeled a communist to an authoritarian apologist. Let's not forget the concern trolling that was "How are we going to pay for it." This all created an illusion that he's too radical for your average democratic voter. People who keep up with politics arent affected by this, we aren't the ones who they are trying to convince (I hope.) Biden did nothing other than being embraced by the Democratic establishment and corporate media. He constantly lies and takes credit for Obama's work and other politicians. His political rise was given to him on a silver spoon. He doesn't stand for anything.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,275
The left have always been held to a different standard and that is more true today than ever. Not saying this will stick as I don't think it will but you can't compare the 2 directly.

Isn't this because liberals actually believes rape is wrong? The right seems to think that without threat of being murdered in a dark alley, there can be no rape.
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
USA
can we please not do this

even before the allegation, watching this pandemic unfold, the responses unfold, and knowing we were nominating someone who's sole appealing point is a "return to normalcy" depressed me

but let's not do this bullshit "see, HERE's your guy" thing, where we go full hindsight bias mode, and falsely reward ourselves for somehow "knowing" Biden was a rapist and falsely penalize others for not



oh stop it

if you look at the thrust of the primary, you see this: Bernie is the front runner for a hot minute, does well in all the initial states, is polling well in later states, seems likely to runaway with it come Super Tuesday; the combination of Biden's impressive win in SC, candidates dropping out and endorsing him, and 100 billion worth of top notch pro-Biden media strongly signals to otherwise unsettled voters, hey, here's the guy to unify us and lead us to victory over Trump!!!; he makes a miraculous comeback, kills it on Super Tuesday, becomes all but the presumptive nominee, and unsurprisingly rides that momentum to massive primary win after massive primary win; even after all that, though, Bernie won CA along the way and is still in this, mathematically speaking

what that amounts to is that, because of a combination of factors, voters ended up galvanizing around Biden early on, thinking he'd be the best person to defeat Trump - it does not amount to Bernie, specifically, being rejected, considering the nomination was very much within his reach at one point

what happens, though, if the equation changes? if something happens that proves Biden isn't the best person to defeat Trump? or he drops out? yeah, especially in that latter case, Bernie is the obvious person to take the nomination

That's not what happened. What happened is that black voters, the backbone of the party, always preferred Biden. The first three states had almost no black voters and are not representative of the party, so Sanders did well. Once we started getting states that represent the party, Biden started cleaning up and steamrolled to victory.

Handing the nomination to Bernie after the party has clearly expressed a preference for a more moderate progressive would be insulting and undemocratic.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,113
can we please not do this

even before the allegation, watching this pandemic unfold, the responses unfold, and knowing we were nominating someone who's sole appealing point is a "return to normalcy" depressed me

but let's not do this bullshit "see, HERE's your guy" thing, where we go full hindsight bias mode, and falsely reward ourselves for somehow "knowing" Biden was a rapist and falsely penalize others for not

Eh. people have been calling Biden being a creep waaaay before this.
 

Deleted member 18324

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
678
I agree Biden should drop by why are people talking about Bernie? Da fuck he has to do with this?

He is losing the primary bigly. The majority of Dem voters specifically rejected him. So why the heck would Biden's delegates go to Bernie? That's the last thing that should happen.

Best thing would be for Biden to drop, and a consensus is reached at the convention for a compromise moderate candidate such as John Kerry. Someone everyone likes.

Bernie is extremely divisive and will never and should never steal the nomination.

John fucking Kerry lol, between Biden and stuff like this Dems just love putting up losers.

Btw none of this is particularly revelatory about Biden but so many of you treat politics as little more than supporting a sports team or identifying with a brand that you willingly overlooked it all in your mania to support whatever utterly flawed candidate the party coalesced around.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,113
That's not what happened. What happened is that black voters, the backbone of the party, always preferred Biden. The first three states had almost no black voters and are not representative of the party, so Sanders did well. Once we started getting states that represent the party, Biden started cleaning up and steamrolled to victory.

Handing the nomination to Bernie after the party has clearly expressed a preference for a more moderate progressive would be insulting and undemocratic.

Oh wait you were being serious? I assumed your previous post was sarcasm because ...you know.
 

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
That's not what happened. What happened is that black voters, the backbone of the party, always preferred Biden. The first three states had almost no black voters and are not representative of the party, so Sanders did well. Once we started getting states that represent the party, Biden started cleaning up and steamrolled to victory.

Handing the nomination to Bernie after the party has clearly expressed a preference for a more moderate progressive would be insulting and undemocratic.
nothing more democratic than handing the nomination to a man literally nobody has voted for
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
USA
nothing more democratic than handing the nomination to a man literally nobody has voted for

Biden's delegates would vote for him or someone else. I mean it's possible that Biden's delegates would vote for Sanders too, who knows. But the Democratic thing is to let the delegates have a choice because we primary voters are sending them to the convention to do that. And that choice should reflect the interests of Biden's voters.

Some here are acting like the DNC should just have a coronation for Sanders if Biden drops out while having the most delegates
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
That's not what happened. What happened is that black voters, the backbone of the party, always preferred Biden. The first three states had almost no black voters and are not representative of the party, so Sanders did well. Once we started getting states that represent the party, Biden started cleaning up and steamrolled to victory.

Handing the nomination to Bernie after the party has clearly expressed a preference for a more moderate progressive would be insulting and undemocratic.

Can't disagree, but what's the solution? A redo? Give it to Pete? I honestly can't think of anything that would be "fair".
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Damn that was a really sad listen. I can't say I'm surprised, there are numerous incidents captured on camera of Biden crossing boundaries. In often plain gross ways.

I am not looking forward to November. I want Trump out, but if I have to vote for another rapist?
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,536
Has there been a recent incident similar to this in the Me Too era? Meaning has there been cases where an accusation is made and goes through the media and public process only for the same accuser to later make a superseding, harsher and much more serious accusation?

As poorly as the media and public deal with these accusations, I have trouble thinking that we will deal with a case like this even to the horribly low bar that we have already set.
 

TheOMan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,121
Isn't this because liberals actually believes rape is wrong? The right seems to think that without threat of being murdered in a dark alley, there can be no rape.

They would 100% ask what she was wearing first before passing judgement, and I don't think that would actually matter.

Case in point: Brock Turner

Not that it matters too much, but why exactly was she stanning for Putin?
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
USA
Can't disagree, but what's the solution? A redo? Give it to Pete? I honestly can't think of anything that would be "fair".

I mentioned it in an earlier post but the fairest thing is for Biden's delegates to try and find a compromise candidate who is similar to Biden ideologically and throw their support behind him or her.

I mentioned Kerry in an earlier post but someone like Klobuchar would also fit the bill. Could be anyone really. Even Sanders if they become overcome with stupidity. It should be left up to them

This is all assuming of course that Biden still gets a plurality of delegates and then drops out. If Bernie somehow gets more delegates then he deserves to win but that's not happening.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,567
That's not what happened. What happened is that black voters, the backbone of the party, always preferred Biden. The first three states had almost no black voters and are not representative of the party, so Sanders did well. Once we started getting states that represent the party, Biden started cleaning up and steamrolled to victory.

Handing the nomination to Bernie after the party has clearly expressed a preference for a more moderate progressive would be insulting and undemocratic.

Bernie, especially before Biden became presumptive nominee-light, did very well with Asian voters, Hispanic voters, young black voters, and young voters in general

additionally, he was polling very well in almost every Super Tuesday state until all the events I mentioned, and even then, his actual ideas continued to win the day in exit poll after exit poll

so your analysis seems very bad

Eh. people have been calling Biden being a creep waaaay before this.

yeah, but equating "clearly has boundary issues" with "clearly is a rapist" is offpoint on multiple levels
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
That's not what happened. What happened is that black voters, the backbone of the party, always preferred Biden. The first three states had almost no black voters and are not representative of the party, so Sanders did well. Once we started getting states that represent the party, Biden started cleaning up and steamrolled to victory.

Handing the nomination to Bernie after the party has clearly expressed a preference for a more moderate progressive would be insulting and undemocratic.

Comments about the demographics not withstanding, if Biden drops out Bernie is the only one remaining in the race so he would automatically be the nominee. If the party decides instead to find another candidate and have Biden's votes count for them instead, that would be even more undemocratic.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,113
I mentioned it in an earlier post but the fairest thing is for Biden's delegates to try and find a compromise candidate who is similar to Biden ideologically and throw their support behind him or her.

I mentioned Kerry in an earlier post but someone like Klobuchar would also fit the bill. Could be anyone really. Even Sanders if they become overcome with stupidity. It should be left up to them

This is all assuming of course that Biden still gets a plurality of delegates and then drops out. If Bernie somehow gets more delegates then he deserves to win but that's not happening.

It's painfully obvious those people would all have orders of magnitude less chance of winning than Sanders.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
I agree Biden should drop by why are people talking about Bernie? Da fuck he has to do with this?

He is losing the primary bigly. The majority of Dem voters specifically rejected him. So why the heck would Biden's delegates go to Bernie? That's the last thing that should happen.

Best thing would be for Biden to drop, and a consensus is reached at the convention for a compromise moderate candidate such as John Kerry. Someone everyone likes.

Bernie is extremely divisive and will never and should never steal the nomination.

lol is this a meme post?
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
I mentioned it in an earlier post but the fairest thing is for Biden's delegates to try and find a compromise candidate who is similar to Biden ideologically and throw their support behind him or her.

I mentioned Kerry in an earlier post but someone like Klobuchar would also fit the bill. Could be anyone really. Even Sanders if they become overcome with stupidity. It should be left up to them

This is all assuming of course that Biden still gets a plurality of delegates and then drops out. If Bernie somehow gets more delegates then he deserves to win but that's not happening.

Wait, you were being serious? I thought that was a masterful joke post, but you're legitimately suggesting John fucking Kerry?!
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
A nation wide ranked vote.
I don't think there's any chance it will happen, but it can be done.

Mail-in, due to Corona and all. I could live with that. I can't get on-board with Frankish about letting Biden's delegates pick someone else. I guess it's technically viable, but still feels really unfair. Would be like a select few being king makers. Plus, the nominee still needs to beat Trump, and none of the others beside Warren or Bernie can do it.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
They would 100% ask what she was wearing first before passing judgement, and I don't think that would actually matter.

Case in point: Brock Turner

Not that it matters too much, but why exactly was she stanning for Putin?
Or how much she had to drink.

Case in point Brett Kavanagh.

I can't understand how lightly rape is treated in politics in America. Like wtf. Rape? Like one of the most heinous crimes and it's just bandaged away. Believe women. Come on America, you are better than this.
 

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
Biden's delegates would vote for him or someone else. I mean it's possible that Biden's delegates would vote for Sanders too, who knows. But the Democratic thing is to let the delegates have a choice because we primary voters are sending them to the convention to do that. And that choice should reflect the interests of Biden's voters.

Some here are acting like the DNC should just have a coronation for Sanders if Biden drops out while having the most delegates

How strong is your conviction that Biden's delegates will defect to someone like John Kerry over Bernie Sanders, who has consistently polled at or among the top of Biden voters' second-choice candidates since the beginning of this primary?
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,066
I don't care for Biden, but please don't give it Bernie.

Honestly, he's probably the nominee. I don't even know who the next in line should be.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,171
I mentioned it in an earlier post but the fairest thing is for Biden's delegates to try and find a compromise candidate who is similar to Biden ideologically and throw their support behind him or her.

I mentioned Kerry in an earlier post but someone like Klobuchar would also fit the bill. Could be anyone really. Even Sanders if they become overcome with stupidity. It should be left up to them

This is all assuming of course that Biden still gets a plurality of delegates and then drops out. If Bernie somehow gets more delegates then he deserves to win but that's not happening.

So just to be clear, your argument earlier is that black voters are the backbone of the Democrat party, so they should go to Klobuchar, who had possibly the worst polling among black voters among any of the top 5 or so in the primaries?
 

TheOMan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,121
It really doesn't matter at this point, come on..

You misunderstand (perhaps I was too wishy washy with my language) - it doesn't matter pertaining to this accusation at all, and wouldn't change my mind as to Joe Biden being a terrible candidate. We've seen what he does on camera, it was always going to be worse off camera. So, if you think I'm implying she's a Russian plant, I can assure that I am not. I'm just curious as to why she's a fan of his as Putin is terrible in his own right and I don't think creating a thread just to ask that question is a viable option. On the other hand, I don't want to cause a derail, so if somebody happens to have a link they can PM me, thanks in advance.
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,424
USA
How strong is your conviction that Biden's delegates will defect to someone like John Kerry over Bernie Sanders, who has consistently polled at or among the top of Biden voters' second-choice candidates since the beginning of this primary?

I don't have any convictions about what WILL happen. I'm just trying to dispel the notion that Sanders should be automatically coronated if Biden drops like many are suggesting.

If Biden drops there will likely be a contested convention where delegates can vote for whoever they want. Can they vote for Bernie? Sure. I don't think they should, but they certainly could. Are you asking me whether they will do that? I have no friggin clue and neither does anyone else. It could be Bernie or it could be a compromise candidate from out of left field.

I personally think a compromise candidate would be more fair. Obviously all the Bernie stans here are gonna disagree with that, and that's fine. That's why I'm not responding to every post.

But there should not and won't be a coronation for Bernie even if Biden drops.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Mail-in, due to Corona and all. I could live with that. I can't get on-board with Frankish about letting Biden's delegates pick someone else. I guess it's technically viable, but still feels really unfair. Would be like a select few being king makers. Plus, the nominee still needs to beat Trump, and none of the others beside Warren or Bernie can do it.
I think the main problem is that there are so many people in this process who make a really good living from these long ass expensive campaigns, and the last thing they'll want is a precedent that show the people that we can actually do that shit without spending a billion dollars.
This is not a candidate x or y thing, every single campaign manager, pollster and political adviser is HEAVILY incentivized to never make it happen.
I think suspect most of the honestly believe that the process that make them rich is also great for democracy, people tend to think like that. As Upton Sinclair said - it is difficult to get a person to understand something, when their salary depends on them not understanding it.

I donno, maybe if people really demand it there might be a chance.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,215
obama was definitely lighting things up...
I ain't about to defend the drone strikes but that is whataboutism. There is clearly a serious issue needing addressed when 2 of the last 4 presidents are rapists, 2 known rapists are currently sitting on the supreme court and now the nom for the Democratic presidency candidate is a known rapist. It's almost like a qualification for high office. Lets chuck it on the CV. Embarassing.
 
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