YouTube as a viable platform for small time independent creators: is it already dead?

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,682
As some of you may or may not already know, Machinima just folded, leaving 81 people without a job. That's a shockingly large staff, but maybe not as shocking as the recent purchase of popular channels for dozens of millions of dollars, which I think it kind of illustrates the current state of YouTube, with large and well financed start-ups looking for an out and those already bought either quickly turning corporate or closing down after a while.

I personally don't follow any of those personalities as I don't care about the gaming side/pop culture side of YouTube, but I follow a lot of large-ish channels devoted to woodworking, electronics, DIY and other forms of enginerding and something that has caught my eye is that even homemade operations have insanely large budgets. I'm talking about people who obviously started with lots of cash to spare right away or hit the jackpot early and managed to make a large amount of followers/build a huge base on Patreon that provided them with the necessary income to purchase professional equipment, having employees and/or being able to outsource production work (which is not cheap at all).

By any measuring, those folks are now working full time for YouTube, professionally creating from one to three or four videos per week, and being able to purchase tools and other types of hardware that easily run in the hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars per week. In some cases it's also abundantly clear that they don't even buy said hardware. It's manufacturers contacting them in order to shill their products in videos that are barely disguised as tutorials or reviews, but bought and paid by big brands doling out big bucks to influential personalities.

More to the point, I've noticed due to my work that there are plenty of small time creators that are trying their best in order to get noticed and absolutely failing at it. You can't really compete with the big channels now. It's no longer is a matter of being funny or doing interesting videos, but affording the means to produce content that easily rivals and even surpasses proper shows made for TV. There's a vast gulf in terms of access and production values between what passed as a successful independent YouTube channel five years ago and what it is now, almost like the difference between a high school play and Game of Thrones. To put it simply, in terms of reach and content creation there's a now a YouTube for the rubes and a YouTube for the pros. And if you are a rube, your chances of growing out of your status are massively curtailed due to the incredible reach, positioning and appeal of the pros.

While this is something fairly natural (small guy turns hobby into job, makes it big), I can't help but feel bad for some people and even have concerns about the direction of YouTube as a platform. Much of its current success is owed to small time creators that are now having an incredibly hard time just getting themselves out in a sea of now household names and huge channels with start-up money. Getting noticed in 2010 was hard, but it's almost impossible today. And even if you start growing at a quick pace because the stars align or some of the popular indies somehow sponsors you or gives you a shout out*, chances are that you won't be able to sustain the amount of production work and expenses required to build a proper channel that pays for itself or just generates enough feedback/personal gratification to keep you going.

So all this wall of text brings me to the question: is YouTube still a viable platform for smaller independent creators or has the incredible presence of the successful, veteran ones and the rise of media groups turned it into an invisibly walled garden?


*big fat round of applause to AvE for routinely giving exposure to smaller folks in the DIY/engineering scene.
 
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HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Dude, it's always been this way in media so of course its worse on a platform anyone can contribute to without any gatekeeping to get in the way.

You have literally millions of small time creators competing and the same thing will happen on any popular platform.

And yes, people are going to regularly raise the bar for each other on YouTube because, again, that happens with every medium and platform. This is a very good thing for viewers and creators - we get better content, they get better at making it.
 

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,463
I think what you might be seeing is maybe saturation? A lot of small niches have been carved out already by YouTube content creators and any new comers will be fighting for market share in terms of the same viewers.
 
OP
OP
Funky Papa

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,682
Dude, it's always been this way in media so of course its worse on a platform anyone can contribute to without any gatekeeping to get in the way.
I mean, I address this near the end of the giant wall of text. It's only natural. What I'm wondering is if YouTube can (wants to?) somehow reverse that trend and if the era of smaller independent creators is now close to an end, given that YouTube is basically a monopoly for general video content and Twitch is not quite comparable.
 
Oct 27, 2017
131
Chicago, IL
It was never viable for small creators. The small creators who hit it big were lucky and should not be seen as the majority. See "survivorship bias"

You either make it through the curve or sink sadly. It's best to concentrate on what you do best and what makes your content what it is first rather than jump straight into YT unless you want it to be something akin to full time work.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I mean, I address this near the end of the giant wall of text. It's only natural. What I'm wondering is if YouTube can (wants to?) somehow reverse that trend and if the era of smaller independent creators is now close to an end, given that YouTube is basically a monopoly for general video content and Twitch is not quite comparable.
In what manner could YT reverse the trend? By promoting smaller channels?

We're talking tens of thousands of channels with new ones being crested every day.

It's going to be more on the shoulders of said content creators to promote each other. Cross-promotion has been really effective, especially when creators appear in each other's works.

I love Lindsay Ellis, Folding Ideas, Contrapoints, Peter Coffin and hbomberguy and all of them have boosted each other by working with each other and giving each other nods all the time.
 

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,014
So all this wall of text brings me to the question: is YouTube still a viable platform for smaller independent creators or has the incredible presence of the successful, veteran ones and the rise of media groups turned it into an invisibly walled garden?
Unless Youtube makes drastic changes (and it does not look like they will), I think it is dead. Those smaller creators are being attacked/suppressed from two sides.

Promotion algorithm/revenue - The big channels have essentially gamed the algorithm. Channels which upload more frequently are promoted. Remixed and re-uploaded content is not penalised.



DMCA takedowns/scams - Youtube refuse to get involved in judging individual cases, so larger channels and trolls are able to hijack content and revenue streams.

 

siddx

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,807
Yeah its unfortunate. I remember when it was mostly just a sea of webcam videos of people explaining things. And although its obviously nice to get videos with great production values, it does seem like the overall scope of YouTube has shrunk drastically as most content that gets attention comes from a smallish group of people who seem to have more money than creativity.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
You either make it through the curve or sink sadly
Yeah, that's the business. That's always been the business. What people here don't get is that every big creator was a small creator and continuously worked through it to get to where they are today.

YouTube is still shit and does a lot of shitty things and if there was another competitor I'd say go to them (floatplane where you at?) but to say it isn't viable for small creators is disingenuous.
 

Mendrox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,562
It was never viable for small creators. The small creators who hit it big were lucky and should not be seen as the majority. See "survivorship bias"

You either make it through the curve or sink sadly. It's best to concentrate on what you do best and what makes your content what it is first rather than jump straight into YT unless you want it to be something akin to full time work.
What are small creators for you? Our channel has about 15.000 subscribers and back then we were able to make good money till Youtube said "No tobacco no no". But yeah nowadays it's...bad.
 
Oct 27, 2017
131
Chicago, IL
Yeah, that's the business. That's always been the business. What people here don't get is that every big creator was a small creator and continuously worked through it to get to where they are today.

YouTube is still shit and does a lot of shitty things and if there was another competitor I'd say go to them (floatplane where you at?) but to say it isn't viable for small creators is disingenuous.
The reason I've come to that opinion is because those who are smaller creators still need to have high production values for most of their content. You can be a small creator and make content for YouTube, absolutely, but it still requires you to put a lot of time and effort into one video rather than focusing on smaller videos at a much faster pace.

Take this video for example: https://youtu.be/Mh5LY4Mz15o

That alone took six months. So, while you could be a small creator and make good content on YT, it takes just as much time to produce those videos as it would to actually make revenue and enjoy the actual work required to do so.

What are small creators for you? Our channel has about 15.000 subscribers and back then we were able to make good money till Youtube said "No tobacco no no". But yeah nowadays it's...bad.
Someone who uploads content at a much more irregular pace than the larger content creators while also fulfilling a certain niche. It can be anyone from around 1K to even 30K subscribers honestly. From my own second-hand experience, I've seen that it's a lot harder to maintain that "smaller" niche and remain viable than it is to keep it. "Let's Play" videos for example, would fall under that nowadays if you're a smaller content creator.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,798
Doesn’t seem scalable without additional revenue streams. You either are a tiny niche thing or huge.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,214
Pennsylvania
It's the same for podcasts, there's just so many and so many are being done by people who already have a presence or some fame. It's nearly impossible for an actual independent channel to hook people without promotion either from the platform or other folks on said platform
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,250
It's still not entirely impossible to make a YouTube breakthrough , it is much harder though, because you've got to find a niche that isn't fulfilled and do it well enough from the start that you manage to be competitive.


For example, Girlfriend reviews are still doing particularly well for themselves, but they found a unique angle which wasn't being served, and that's obviously much more difficult every year than it was before.
 

Post Reply

Member
Aug 1, 2018
3,018
Youtube seems to be following the radio model now. Like, the personalities and huge channels are essentially FM / XM channels and the small channels have been banished to the AM radio dimension where conspiracy theorists and racist fuckwads reign supreme..
 

riverfr0zen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,613
Manhattan, New York
I think content creators should re-examine what they're in the game for. Are they looking for a place through which to disseminate their unique information or are they there to get famous/make money/make a living? If it's the latter, then you can't rely on just one channel, especially an established one like Youtube. You have to go cross-channel or you have to find a new untapped channel to align with your growth needs.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,074
Oof, I didn't even know Machinima was gone. Used to go their for their Roosterteeth content and few other things. I think Youtube is still a viable platform to build for creators. You need to approach your target audience aggressively with good content from angles that make sense and leverage whatever you can to get that done. That being said the barrier to entry is definitely higher. You can't expect to get far with a phone and basic editing software anymore.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
The reason I've come to that opinion is because those who are smaller creators still need to have high production values for most of their content. You can be a small creator and make content for YouTube, absolutely, but it still requires you to put a lot of time and effort into one video rather than focusing on smaller videos at a much faster pace.

Take this video for example: https://youtu.be/Mh5LY4Mz15o

That alone took six months. So, while you could be a small creator and make good content on YT, it takes just as much time to produce those videos as it would to actually make revenue and enjoy the actual work required to do so.



Someone who uploads content at a much more irregular pace than the larger content creators while also fulfilling a certain niche. It can be anyone from around 1K to even 30K subscribers honestly. From my own second-hand experience, I've seen that it's a lot harder to maintain that "smaller" niche and remain viable than it is to keep it. "Let's Play" videos for example, would fall under that nowadays if you're a smaller content creator.
I don't understand your point. If you're doing YouTube to be successful, your content quality has to be good.
 

stumblebee

The Fallen
Jan 22, 2018
2,033
For the small-timers, probably yeah. For the Medium and big timers? Absolutely not.

I run a small, but growing, fighting game themed channel. (https://www.youtube.com/stumblebee) Don't intend to self-promote, just want to give context on the type of viewership I get.

13k subscribers, 1.5M+ views, ~100,000 views per video on average. I strive to make at least one, major video (15+ minutes of high quality analysis/insight) per month.

Thanks to Eventhubs, SRK, and Maximillian Dood (980k subscribers) both tweeting and shouting out my very first video in one of his videos, I was able to reach the 1k subs + 4k hour watch time fairly quickly. I applied for monetization and got approved three months later.

The first day I was making money on youtube, I made a quick video about Toei/Shueisha fucking with Dragonball Fighterz tournaments. That somehow got caught up in the youtube algorithm and hit 200k views within a few days. That one video made me $500 bucks in a few days. The newest video I uploaded about fighting game guest characters just hit 100k and has made me in the ballpark of $150 in a week. The gap in income for each video varies because of a slowly dropping CPM.

In total, across my entire channel, I've made about $1,600 since December 21 when I was first monetized. That's a great amount of money for a hobby, but definitely not a livable income.

Being on the other side of the youtube money making making coin has kind of opened my eyes to a few things

1) "Making a living" on youtube is going to be incredibly hard for anyone under 100k subscribers.
2) It's going to be impossible to make a living wage if you aren't making popular content every single day.
3) I'm really happy with the stuff I'm making at the pace I'm making it....
4) ...But the common end goal of a lot of channels is to reach the point where you reach enough of a fanbase where your viewers come to see you and not necessarily the genre of content you make. once you reach that point, you can branch out to anything you want to do. See: Maximillian slowly building a fanbase that doesn't mind watching him play Blackout or RE2.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Member
Feb 25, 2018
5,157
Back then we would get many plays out of nowhere... Now with the new algorythm everything seems dead. Anyhow I never tried to make money out of youtube.
 

stumblebee

The Fallen
Jan 22, 2018
2,033
I feel like I should also mention that, for smaller youtubers, the feast or famine phenomenon is super prevalent. That DBFZ video that only took me a few hours to make netted me almost 600 bucks total, but my 1-hour Games of 2018 video that took me the longest to make out of any of my videos flopped, didn't get picked up by the youtube gods, and landed me a fat $5 dollars worth of ad revenue.

Consistency of earnings is a huge reason why I'd dissuade anyone from becoming a full time youtuber until they can prove that it's sustainable.
 

methane47

Member
Oct 28, 2017
621
For the small-timers, probably yeah. For the Medium and big timers? Absolutely not.

I run a small, but growing, fighting game themed channel. (https://www.youtube.com/stumblebee) Don't intend to self-promote, just want to give context on the type of viewership I get.

13k subscribers, 1.5M+ views, ~100,000 views per video on average. I strive to make at least one, major video (15+ minutes of high quality analysis/insight) per month.

Thanks to Eventhubs, SRK, and Maximillian Dood (980k subscribers) both tweeting and shouting out my very first video in one of his videos, I was able to reach the 1k subs + 4k hour watch time fairly quickly. I applied for monetization and got approved three months later.

The first day I was making money on youtube, I made a quick video about Toei/Shueisha fucking with Dragonball Fighterz tournaments. That somehow got caught up in the youtube algorithm and hit 200k views within a few days. That one video made me $500 bucks in a few days. The newest video I uploaded about fighting game guest characters just hit 100k and has made me in the ballpark of $150 in a week. The gap in income for each video varies because of a slowly dropping CPM.

In total, across my entire channel, I've made about $1,600 since December 21 when I was first monetized. That's a great amount of money for a hobby, but definitely not a livable income.

Being on the other side of the youtube money making making coin has kind of opened my eyes to a few things

1) "Making a living" on youtube is going to be incredibly hard for anyone under 100k subscribers.
2) It's going to be impossible to make a living wage if you aren't making popular content every single day.
3) I'm really happy with the stuff I'm making at the pace I'm making it....
4) ...But the common end goal of a lot of channels is to reach the point where you reach enough of a fanbase where your viewers come to see you and not necessarily the genre of content you make. once you reach that point, you can branch out to anything you want to do. See: Maximillian slowly building a fanbase that doesn't mind watching him play Blackout or RE2.
So what you are saying is that the youtube calculators for income are more or less.. accurate? (atleast the lower end of the calcuation)
https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCfqq4uagW1M5-2wsX4YqOCA
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,905
If people are expecting to get rich, then yeah, it's not going to be easy. I still think there is plenty of room for small time creators. There is some great independent stuff out there worth watching and greatly appreciated.

I recently discovered K'eyush The Stunt Dog. He is the most adorable Husky dog and it's just a treat to watch. I certainly hope Youtube continues to attract small time creators willing to share, even if it isn't a money making adventure.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,767
YouTube's poor management and decisions have turned the site into a microcosm of the larger media world, where money rules.
 

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,944
Canada
Speaking as someone with a relatively small YouTube channel (5,000+ subscribers) t's been dead for years. Between the initial investment one will need for equipment, the inability for one to monetize their content, the algorithms favorite quantity over quality (something which is difficult if you have a part or full-time job) the inability to monetize one's content until their channel meets certain criteria that can later be revoked if they don't meet said criteria in a future year, not to mention how subscriptions are broken i.e. they won't actually show you new content to the channels you're subscribed to unless you ring the bell so the chances of your subscribers seeing your content is even lower than it was before for, YouTube has made it near impossible for smaller content creator to thrive. Unless you get lucky with a shout-out like stumblebee did/have connections, growing a channel on YouTube is next to impossible even if you're pumping out a lot of content.