No offensive, but fuck off with the "IF WE BAN PEOPLE FOR HARASSING PEOPLE!!" "WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE ON WHAT COUNTS AS HARASSMENT!??" argument
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YouTube blatantly says anti-gay slurs and targeted harassment don't break its rules
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
- Start date
Especially since LGBT people are banned constantly for non-infractions.
No offense taken, I get your perspective as well, but whether you agree with it or not it is a valid argument that holds a lot of weight in real life amongst creators outside of niche Internet forums.
LGBT+ content generally is put into Restricted Mode, which is content filtered out to "protect minors", even if that content is just talking about experiences, encouraging other LGBT+ people, etc.
It also almost always gets demonetized because it's not "advertiser friendly".
Last year it also was targeted by an anti-LGBT organization that put pre-roll ads onto LGBT+ content creators' videos, including ones advertising for conversion therapy, without the consent of the LGBT+ creators.
Check this out for more:
Except YT already explicitly has fucked with who gets to profit of of their platform and who doesn't as I posted right before in regards to how it demonetized LGBTQ+ content and actively allowed ads on its platform exclusively regarding anti-gay rhetoric. They inherently don't stay out of it yet in this case somehow it's different and they shouldn't interfere with the content certain people put up? Not only is this content bigoted but it is foundationally about targeting a particular individual for harassment. Crowder and his ilk PROFIT from this content. If you make bigotry profitable then that is what will overwhelm the platform, and if we are actually interested in equality and progress as a society, that shouldn't be allowed to happen.
By what metric is "the community" doing remotely a good job of sorting out what's right and wrong? Alt right and hate speech are flourishing
They do have a pretty clearly defined metric that they outline on their TOS and don't seem to be enforcing.
Honestly really disappointed of him, as a disabled person myself, I really looked up to Ricky
But to see that he's basically saying "I get called slurs and bullied all the time! And I'm fine!" "What's that? Asking people to be better and not harass people for things they can't control of? Nah! Get a thick skin!"
It's so upsetting and eye-rolling
This particular argument people use against Youtube (people on all sides use this argument - the alt right, LGBQT folks, everyone) confuses me.
I would assume Youtube has a huge ads network, and as part of that network they allow advertisers to select what they want their content to show on. I would assume if there was advertiser demand to advertise on a video (of any content type) Youtube would be happy to oblige. The fact they demonetize shows a pushback from advertisers to me - not from Youtube itself. What would you have Youtube do in this case?
People seem to always put 'demonetize' strictly at the feet of Youtube, but the whole 'ad-pocalypse' was from advertisers pulling out. Now I do understand Youtube attempted to fix the issue with a overly broad brushstroke in the short term. But I would assume if a company came to Youtube and said "We really want to hit group X with this ad" Youtube would be happy to so, wouldnt they?
This. If the point of YouTube is to not interfere in what its platform allows and "let the community decide" what is published then they wouldn't and shouldn't have fucking Terms of Service. Either the site has rules that need to be followed or it doesn't.
How is the community supposed to make decisions when Youtube's algorithm pushes alt-right garbage almost right away. And at the same time LGBT content get age restricted and demonitized. Everything about Youtube ends up pushing bigotry to the viewers. Many of them are kids too.
The community is sorting it out alright.
Conservative pundits and straight up alt-right/nazi content creators have by far and large among the biggest growth on the platform, and thanks to the YouTube algorithm and the vast overlap between gaming content and conservative content via the likes of JonTron, Pewdiepie, etc. promoting the likes of Ben Shapiro, Stefan Molyneux etc., far right content has basically overtaken YouTube at this point. This includes videos that propagate racism, sexism, homo- and transphobia and antisemitism, and of course typical right wing conspiracy theories such as holocaust denial, climate change denial, etc.
Google doesn't give a shit because it makes them lots of money, though. It's far more profitable for them to have people talking about wanting to create a white ethnostate or the Jewish Question than it is to deplatform these people.
Free marketplace of ideas my ass. YouTube is actively promoting this content. If I watch a video from a content creator that talks about 80s TV shows and Sierra point & click adventures, I get recommendations for JonTron and Ben Shapiro, from the algorithm that YouTube put in place. Meanwhile, YouTube immediately takes down video content created by leftist and minority creators whenever the right are mass flagging that content.
They are painting a target on these people. Its not like their ideology will go away just because there isnt an epic Ben Shapiro meme compilation to watch.
Interesting. This is important and I will look into this. Although I don't agree that Crowder profits from specifically anti-gay harassment, it's more of a byproduct of his sense of humor. I've seen some of his videos on abortion, rape culture, and Brett Kavanaugh and while I may not have agreed with all his specific viewpoints I didn't observe any kind of homophobic behavior. I think people just tune in to watch him debate.
He literally wears a shirt that says "Socialism is for F**s" with Che Guevara and a wrist bent down.
You are familiar with how radicalization and also how algorithms work, right?
Yes less people are radicalized if those susceptible aren't funneled on a massive platform toward people like this.
No offense but that's a fucking stupid statement. There's no reality in or outside of Internet forums where banning people for harassment leads to a slippery slope is a valid argument. We are a civilized society and we know the lines of right and wrong. It's bad actors that try to pretend those lines aren't defined to legitimize their asshattery.
Dude, if someone's brand of "humor" results in LGBTQ+ people being harassed by their legion of fans then they shouldn't be producing that fucking humor.
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you gonna provide receipts for the "we as a community are doing well" part?
have you read the OP? Because holy shit it's not even subtle. Anyone who would have trouble discerning whether or not that is targeted harassment or anti gay is a fucking idiot. So often these are clear cut cases and the only people who say otherwise are ALWAYS those not directly affected.
this kind of stuff reminds me when a cop pulls over a car for going 100 in a 50, then when he gets to the driver window he realizes its the mayor's son so he's like "oh um, try not to do that anymore thanks"
if this controversy was around a channel with 15 subs somehow it would be gone in seconds
why is this so fucking hard for these companies?
like do they think that if they just ban all nazi's and bigots that they're going to somehow create a competing product thats going to take their business away? As if billions of people will somehow migrate to the platform known as "the youtube for nazis and bigots"
like do they think that if they just ban all nazi's and bigots that they're going to somehow create a competing product thats going to take their business away? As if billions of people will somehow migrate to the platform known as "the youtube for nazis and bigots"
Right? Or that Affluenza kid from a few years ago. An environment where the laws apply to some people but not others. It's such blatant bullshit.
at my place we block ads at the router level, the console doesn't even realize the ad even exists because it never even makes it to the console
Because LGBT+ content immediately gets flagged. The system is automated and does not discern between content that is rightfully mature, and content that is safe. If you have "LGBT" in your title, your video is flagged, regardless of the content of the video, even if your content is completely child-friendly and maybe even specifically made for underage people in order to educate or encourage them.
I sincerely doubt that the advertisers were pushing for LGBT+ content in particular getting demonetized, they were pushing for mature content in general, and YouTube made the decision that LGBT+ content as a whole is 'mature', and thus cannot be monetized, no matter what.
Wow, I never knew that. Thank you for educating me, I've definitely learned something today.
It's hard because a major party in the US are basically supported by nazis and alt-right and thus supports them back. If YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, etc. actually went after hate speech and harassment of this kind their owners would get hauled in front of congress all the fucking time plus be hit with regulations. That's not even counting the dilemma of banning the fucking president himself or not, along with a lot of other actual party members when they do this shit.
That's why they're scared and I think that's more the reason than straight up making money.
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You're part of the problem
wwbsites have literally tried this and it doesn't work. They literally have a metric for alt right competitor sites which are constantly experiencing financial woes due to low user engagement because the only thing these people fucking get off on is harassing others.
lol, that thread was the first place I checked for an update when I saw Youtube updated its policies.
This is really upsetting.
So your saying targeted malicious harassment campaigns that get people killed arent going to be punished? Sounds legit
this is bullshit. its not a valid argument "among creators"
if you want to be an asshole go start your own website with your own rules saying you can be an asshole. There's literally nothing, no law, edict or anything that says youtube has to host all content sent to it.
I think they def did this when the 'ad-pocalypse' happened as they panicked and needed to get the site back to being ok for advertisers generically. Im very surprised if its still such a broad-strokes thing at this point though.
I do have some sympathy for Youtube (as you might have guessed) as I appreciate the technical challenge they have. They certainly have to do better in certain areas though.
He wears a shirt with the slogan "Socialism is for F*gs" that he sells on his web site.
He regularly uses anti-LGBT language.
He mocks gay people with weak wrist, lisp and nasal voice on the regular.
He is vividly opposed to same-sex marriage.
And he basically launched a harassment campaign against a gay writer.
But definitely not homophobic.
Guess if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is actually a goose.
This finally pushed me over the edge to cancel youtube premium. I also moved away from Chrome. Not sure what else I can do now, but man, fuck Google.
It's deeper than that.
YouTube like to create the impression that when you make a video, advertisers pay you to get ads on it, but that's not what happens.
Advertisers pay youtube, and then youtube decide to give creators whatever the fuck they feel like giving them. They are actively deciding where the ad revenue goes, and the fact that they decided to kinda do it based on views (or "engagement") doesn't change the fact that every day, youtube choose to write checks to white supremacists.
Watch his 2nd trans video and try to write a post like that again.
Thanks for this, had no idea. Super shitty of them
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*videos literally feature a dude wearing a shirt that says communism is for f*gs, creator literally made targets a specific individual for being a POC well as gay, which led me said individual getting doxxed and harassed for two years.*
Ally: I didn't observe any homophobic behavior. Seems to me that he just wants to debate. I'm also an idiot.
What can we do to stop this?
Because clearly if we boycott them, they will still deem they have enough people on their platform from people who follow the likes of Pewdiepie, Jontron, the Jake Paul's, Ice Prick etc etc.
The only way to get back at them is by advertisers refusing to play ball with them again such as Disney etc and people who make shows for them such as Kobra Kai start to refuse to make shows for them.
Because clearly if we boycott them, they will still deem they have enough people on their platform from people who follow the likes of Pewdiepie, Jontron, the Jake Paul's, Ice Prick etc etc.
The only way to get back at them is by advertisers refusing to play ball with them again such as Disney etc and people who make shows for them such as Kobra Kai start to refuse to make shows for them.
It makes me so angry to see YT with a fucking rainbow icon doing this shit. They are not our friends. Rainbow capitalism is a scourge.