• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Thuddert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
Netherlands
Shame, one of my favorite games this year.

The news is great for upvotes on reddit tho.

I do think NISA is good for visibility in the market, as they've taken up publishing the cold steel games in Europe.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,515
Also, to be honest, I think some people ask for way too much, sometimes to the point of complaining when there's no real need to. For example, the complaints some people had with Persona 5. Those complaints were honestly petty. Japanese to English localisations are difficult, they always have been and always will.
There was nothing petty about the complaints concerning P5's localization. It was a drastic decline in the quality that had come to be expected from Atlus, and the fact that something like it happened after the game's release had been delayed extensively is all the more inexcusable.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,003
Like I said, I'm not saying you have to settle with it. But like I also said, it's completely unrealistic to expect every single game to have a perfect localisation.

Um, say what now? It's not unrealistic to expect a product that you pay for that a company is trying to sell you to have higher quality localization than "BIG HOLE."

Obviously I'm changing your word of "perfect" (because that's subjective) to "high quality" but the point applies.

Basically, no, it's not unrealistic to expect people to do their job well. Or at least, better than the Ys VIII job was done.

Frankly, I doubt NISA even wants Cold Steel because I doubt they wanna take up such a task, but lord I hope they don't get it. If a game like Ys VIII can be so butchered, I can't imagine how fudged up CS3 would be.
 

Cqef

Member
Oct 27, 2017
161
somewhere in France
Thing is, rather ironically, I do agree with you. I do think we should have a higher level of standards now than in the past. And I'm not saying I'm super happy with the translation of Ys VIII. I just think not playing a great game because of a muddy translation is something I don't understand, especially when it isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be. I spent about 100 with Ys VIII, and the bad moments were honestly few and far between. For the large majority of the game it was a fine translation.

Oh, but I didn't give up on playing the game, neither did most of the people complaining about NISA's localisation here. We're just waiting for a better way to finally enjoy the game according to our standards and expectations, with a localisation that we feel like it does the game justice. Whether it be with NISA's own relocalisation work, or with a proper fan-edit of it if NISA doesn't deliver.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
Well... Let's not forget that XSEED took a while on SC. Reportedly, Kondo was very unhappy about how long that took. It doesn't surprise me that they would try to find another partner to work with, not at the exclusion of XSEED, but in addition to. It would be really great if we had two studios outputting really good work, rather than just one that is trying to do Falcom's new stuff while also bringing out the back catalog. It's a lot of work.

What's XSEED even left with these days? The Trails series is an okay seller that due to its complexity few (if any) others would even want to bother with and XSEED's attempts at bringing over Falcom's back catalog are met with ever declining sales. Just look at Xanadu Next, which has its first anniversary today and yet according to SteamSpy's numbers still hasn't broken 10k sales. By losing the Ys series, it appears to me as if XSEED got handed the losing hand in terms of Falcom's line up and I do wonder what this means for XSEED's partnership with Falcom going forward. Will they continue working on Falcom's back catalog when sales are ho-hum at best and they lost the one series that turned out to be a reliable seller over the years? Even when returns weren't stellar you could justify the smaller projects with a "it's worth it, because it helps us fostering our relationship with Falcom" line of thinking, but that's hardly the case anymore. In terms of Trails Falcom isn't making XSEED's lives any easier either by continuing the Cold Steel saga (when XSEED most likely hoped for the start of a fresh saga on PS4, since you can't really appeal to new users when you are marketing the 3rd/4th game in a story heavy series).

I don't see what's to be gained by having a second publisher on Falcom's games when it might lead to us losing the one publisher that has done a reliably great job on the Falcom games they worked on. I can't imagine XSEED would have had problems with bringing Ys smoothly and timely to the west, either.
 
Last edited:

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
absolute incompetent idiots. the damn game should not have released like this. I have a save at 8 hours I paused so i can play the real thing and now i have to wait months. I hope they NEVER get a Falcon game again. Embarrassment
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,161
Did I ever once say you had to settle with crappy localisations? No, I didn't. But does that change my point that a poor localisation doesn't change the core experience? A good game is a good game, regardless of the localisation, because what defines a good game is the core mechanics themselves. Also, to be honest, I think some people ask for way too much, sometimes to the point of complaining when there's no real need to. For example, the complaints some people had with Persona 5. Those complaints were honestly petty. Japanese to English localisations are difficult, they always have been and always will. The fact that the series has had good localisations in the past bares no relevance to what it will get going forward. XSEED has a good reputation, but it hasn't always been excellent. NISA has also, in the past, done good localisations. You can't expect the same level of standards on every release, it's unrealistic.
It can't be helped.
 

SliceSabre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,556
This isn't surprising at all. When they made that original announcement I rolled my eyes. I'm certainly no localization expert but I understand enough to know the fixes would take longer than that. No idea why they even bothered to give such a close general date at the time.

I'm not upset though, I'm just putting off my ps4 version purchase of the game till the patch hits.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
You mean Ys V and VIII, right? XSEED localized Ys VI on PC from the ground-up last year, and Ys V won't ever get a modern release except in the form of a remake.
Let's not be obtuse here. It's obvious I'm not talking about Ys V/V expert since Xseed didn't even exist in the "classics" day.

Admitedly I forgot Ys VI got a PC release last year, I was thinking of Konami's PSP and PS2 games (and their butchering in the localisation process)
 

dedacc

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
318
Was going to wait for the PC version anyway, although the push back into 2018 is something that bothers me, considering how massive that year will be for me in terms of (J)RPGs. Oh well, I bet Tokyo Xanadu eX+ for PC won't be finished that soon so I can take my time.

But, I hope dearly the push from consumers to make NISA revise the translation is a stepping stone towards publishers of particularly Japan-based corporations making better translations (and also for more games to have a better non-English translations as well).
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
Need to give a shoutout to the folks down at reddit that made this possible. The game's terrible localization was initially more or less tolerated until they started emailing Falcom and getting the word out there.
 

Ys45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
463
Man it's sad to see this amazing game getting such a half-baked localization like that :(
I really Falcom go back with Xseed for the Ys series and stay with them for Legend of Heroes games
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
Did I ever once say you had to settle with crappy localisations? No, I didn't. But does that change my point that a poor localisation doesn't change the core experience? A good game is a good game, regardless of the localisation, because what defines a good game is the core mechanics themselves. Also, to be honest, I think some people ask for way too much, sometimes to the point of complaining when there's no real need to. For example, the complaints some people had with Persona 5. Those complaints were honestly petty. Japanese to English localisations are difficult, they always have been and always will. The fact that the series has had good localisations in the past bares no relevance to what it will get going forward. XSEED has a good reputation, but it hasn't always been excellent. NISA has also, in the past, done good localisations. You can't expect the same level of standards on every release, it's unrealistic.

It's a bit puzzling to me how easily you separate a good localization from the "core experience" of a game. Story and characterization are huge parts of the appeal of a lot of Japanese games, especially for series like Persona and Trails (to name another Falcom series). If the localization is sub par, then the quality of a very central part of these games is lacking. I agree with you to the degree that story was never Ys's strong suit, so that I'm more "okay" with a lacking Ys localization that I'd be with a poor Trails localization, but I can't agree to your general sentiment that "a good game is a good game regardless of localization" as if localization quality isn't (or couldn't be) an important part of a game's quality.

I was about to buy YsVIII on PS4, is localization that bad? Should I hold off?

Well, the game's only going to get cheaper, so if you have other stuff to play, I'd just wait it out.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,288
Guess I will wait, just googled this issue to get some context...
"Archeozoic Big Hole"
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,203
New Jersey
Did I ever once say you had to settle with crappy localisations? No, I didn't. But does that change my point that a poor localisation doesn't change the core experience? A good game is a good game, regardless of the localisation, because what defines a good game is the core mechanics themselves. Also, to be honest, I think some people ask for way too much, sometimes to the point of complaining when there's no real need to. For example, the complaints some people had with Persona 5. Those complaints were honestly petty. Japanese to English localisations are difficult, they always have been and always will. The fact that the series has had good localisations in the past bares no relevance to what it will get going forward. XSEED has a good reputation, but it hasn't always been excellent. NISA has also, in the past, done good localisations. You can't expect the same level of standards on every release, it's unrealistic.
Some people have standards for what they spend money on and aren't content to just accept anything a publisher puts out. Poor localizations tangibly hurt the experience of playing a game, it certainly made Persona 5 a lesser game.
 

Soran

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
697
I wonder if Persona 5 localization have sometimes to do with my disappointment in the game story.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Thing is, rather ironically, I do agree with you. I do think we should have a higher level of standards now than in the past. And I'm not saying I'm super happy with the translation of Ys VIII. I just think not playing a great game because of a muddy translation is something I don't understand, especially when it isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be. I spent about 100 hours with Ys VIII, and the bad moments were honestly few and far between. For the large majority of the game it was a fine translation.
If a localization is outright bad enough, it can hamper the enjoyment of a game. This is especially the case for games where a large part of the appeal comes from characters and story. There's no real mystery there. And Ys VIII's localization wasn't just comically awful, but a slap in the face to anyone that was used to the quality of XSEED's Ys localizations.
 

BlueBadger

Member
Oct 26, 2017
936
"My name is Allison, but please just call me Allison"
Lmao. I'm still thoroughly enjoying myself with the Vita version :P
 

BlueBadger

Member
Oct 26, 2017
936
You ain't seen nothin yet. Just wait until midgame where Hummel starts talking more. It's like a smorgasbord of embarrassingly bad English.
Hahaha! I can totally see that coming, but I'm one of the few people that feels like it just adds entertainment value for me :P. I laugh so hard at stuff like this.
I can totally see how other people would find the translation close to unplayable, though.
 

Deleted member 11008

User requested account closure
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
Actually, Ys 8 is bad bad as the Namco Bandai Gagharv PSP games? I just play a bit of Prophecy of the Moonlight Witch and that was hilarious. Especially coming from playing the first Kiseki.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,872
It can't be as bad as LOH: Song of the Ocean on PSP, the translation in that made Suikoden 2 look like a masterpiece
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Let's not be obtuse here. It's obvious I'm not talking about Ys V/V expert since Xseed didn't even exist in the "classics" day.

Admitedly I forgot Ys VI got a PC release last year, I was thinking of Konami's PSP and PS2 games (and their butchering in the localisation process)
I played both Ys VI localizations and I don't really see where the PS2 one was butchered.
 
Oct 25, 2017
406
Japan
For example, the complaints some people had with Persona 5. Those complaints were honestly petty. Japanese to English localisations are difficult, they always have been and always will.
They're difficult, but so is any translation. A good team can do good work on even the most difficult projects. See Nier: Automata for example.
The website was most definitely petty
The website was enlightening to a great number of people in that it showed the real importance of localization and editing using concrete examples as well as discussions of issues that plague the industry.
I wonder if Persona 5 localization have sometimes to do with my disappointment in the game story.
This is exactly it. It's not a case of being riddled with errors (there are some, to be sure, but they won't ruin the game), it's an issue with the characters' personalities not coming through as well as they did in the localizations of past titles.

I played the game in Japanese a year ago, and was quite happy with the story and characters and excited to see how they handled various things in localization. Then it came out in English and it turned out they had... just done a straight translation and the characters had lost a ton of personality (Yusuke, Sae and Makoto being some of the biggest victims). Every time I see someone say that they just didn't connect with the characters, or specifically that Sae is so annoying, I feel a bit sad.
 

Steiner

Member
Oct 29, 2017
596
The website was enlightening to a great number of people in that it showed the real importance of localization and editing using concrete examples as well as discussions of issues that plague the industry.

The website was beyond petty. Especially if you consider who the founder was. Free translator, who defend the horrible translation from fates.

P5s translation is mediocre, but not bad like Y's8 or Tokyo Xanadus'.
 

Deleted member 2585

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,133
who defend the horrible translation from fates.

The thing is that the Fates translation was serviceable. The only controversial thing about that is the removal of face-petting (and I maintain that face-petting is one of the worst things to ever grace a Fire Emblem game). I've played a little of the fan translation of Fates, and it was pretty terrible. It was boring, stale, and sterile. The localization actually helped Fates by helping characterize the cast.

Fates' issues weren't its translation. The original Japanese script was trash, and the localization couldn't fix that.

In comparison, Persona 5's script seems to have been let down by its localization, not the other way around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,648
The thing is that the Fates translation was serviceable. The only controversial thing about that is the removal of face-petting (and I maintain that face-petting is one of the worst things to ever grace a Fire Emblem game). I've played a little of the fan translation of Fates, and it was pretty terrible. It was boring, stale, and sterile. The localization actually helped Fates by helping characterize the cast.

Fates' issues weren't its translation. The original Japanese script was trash, and the localization couldn't fix that.

In comparison, Persona 5's script seems to have been let down by its localization, not the other way around.
Persona 5's issues tend to be awkward sentences, mostly in the early game and repeat phrases. Characters have personality and the writing is rarely stale. Its not to the level of Persona 4, but the characters all feel unique at the very least.

Fates issues were cutting shit, like the entirety of same sex relationship conversations being cut and instead replaced with the opposite sex version. (Female Corrin + Rhajat support conversations in english are identical to male corrin + rhajat).
 

Soran

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
697
Fates translation is outright an incomplete product. They cut ton shit and expected us to pay full price for it, no thanks. And btw, I know the original script is crap, but if I buy a game I want it with all the content it was mean to have
 

Steiner

Member
Oct 29, 2017
596
The thing is that the Fates translation was serviceable. The only controversial thing about that is the removal of face-petting (and I maintain that face-petting is one of the worst things to ever grace a Fire Emblem game). I've played a little of the fan translation of Fates, and it was pretty terrible. It was boring, stale, and sterile. The localization actually helped Fates by helping characterize the cast.

Fates' issues weren't its translation. The original Japanese script was trash, and the localization couldn't fix that.

In comparison, Persona 5's script seems to have been let down by its localization, not the other way around.

The translation for fates does change whole sentences with giggle, and is in general not true to its original. There are tons of comparisons, which show that.

But I agree with you the script for fates is trash and not even the best translation could do anything against it. This doesn't mean it's ok to defend it and in the same time criticizing the work of other translators in such a way.

They clearly had other motives behind it.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,203
New Jersey
Fates translation is outright an incomplete product. They cut ton shit and expected us to pay full price for it, no thanks. And btw, I know the original script is crap, but if I buy a game I want it with all the content it was mean to have
This is fair. People praising the literally translated Fates fan script is not though, it's far worse than what we got officially.
 

Teppic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
686
Sounds good to me. The game was broken, now they're fixing it. I can understand that people were upset at the original delay and hearing about the state of the game, but people who still complain and throwing insults now when they're trying to fix it are just weird.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,629
I'm surprised that they thought they could go over the game in a month and a half in the first place. After the initial news I decided to wait but I might just end up getting it before the update anyway.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,115
Honestly hard to be mad about a delay when there's been like 100 must play games this year.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,824
I just did, and I won't elaborate on it any further.

GTPjLOr.png


We live in the new era now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,686
Devil Halton's Trap
Re: "perfect localization" debating, I'm sure very, very few of us have asked for that from XSEED, NISA, or anyone. And it's realistic to say that not every localization must or can improve on the previous. But it wouldn't kill localization publishers to establish a gradually more consistent range of high quality to achieve when localizing games each year and the year after. XSEED's done this for the most part, having relatively few disappointments across their English scripts while pushing the limits of Japanese-to-English loc for games which, frankly, few expected to come out of Japan in such good condition (poor old Trails). They still blunder on occasion (Akiba's Beat), but then get to back on avoiding those mistakes for the rest of their releases. Compared to older and more poorly-managed studios like NISA or even Atlus, XSEED responds more transparently to customer feedback and recommendations, and comes across as less hollow because they don't put themselves on the back without having changed something in their release process for the better (almost always, at least).

I wouldn't trust XSEED more in this scenario if they weren't a small, swift team that seems to care about their history and what fans/customers haven't overlooked and criticized before.

I don't see what's to be gained by having a second publisher on Falcom's games when it might lead to us losing the one publisher that has done a reliably great job on the Falcom games they worked on. I can't imagine XSEED would have had problems with bringing Ys smoothly and timely to the west, either.
XSEED can probably handle all of Falcom's new games now since the number of viable old titles to localize has really dwindled (I'm holding out hope for Dinosaur Resurrection and BM Japan, specifically, but y'all need to buy games like Zwei: The Ilvard Insurrection to make that more likely). But I wouldn't mind Idea Factory International or another solid/good team handling and publishing a Falcom title like, say, Tokyo Xanadu's successor.

Thing is, XSEED's kept afloat partly because Marvelous JP's own games still sell well. I don't know how long that can last, assuming that Stardew Valley might encroach on Story of Seasons's market or that Takaki and his friends run into trouble keeping up Senran Kagura's momentum (and I still cant get over XSEED skipping Valkyrie Drive when that would have sold a bunch). At least the Fate spinoff games will continue to help them. XSEED needs to stay proactive by exploring a wide range of publishing opportunities, ranging from big new games (Falcom) to smaller visual novels or doujin titles (Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin, coming next year) so they can maintain diversity.

What fan letter? What's the story behind this?
In short, some fans from r/Falcom wrote up a polite but thorough letter in Japanese, addressed to and designed for mass sending to Nihon Falcom, explaining why fans are disappointed with NISA's localization of Ys VIII and how that has negatively impacted their experience and potential enjoyment/immersion. The campaign didn't have to run long before Japanese news sites reported on the situation behind the e-mails, particularly the well-read Hachima Blog (known to industry followers and game developers in Japan). Commenters on these articles were sympathetic to what we've been going through and, more importantly, the news seems to have reached Falcom or at least Falcom's developer network where this would exert stronger peer pressure on Falcom and NIS to address the problem. Considering how NISA president Takuro Yamashita's apology released very close to this news getting big overseas, I think either Falcom proactively knocked on NIS's door to suggest a threat of retribution if NISA can't meet fan and brand expectations (the companies' presidents have known each other for a while) or that NISA's become so apologetic and defensive over this because they fear the possibility of losing future Falcom projects that much.

I agree with you to the degree that story was never Ys's strong suit, so that I'm more "okay" with a lacking Ys localization that I'd be with a poor Trails localization, but
Whoa, hold up. Ys VIII having a disappointing localization stings more than usual because this Ys game has way more story than even Celceta before it, and the story here's even more integral to enjoying your adventure across the island vs. the relative disconnection between Celceta's story and some parts of the overworld and dungeons. I agree with most of what you've said already, but I think Ys VIII's case is particularly damning against NISA and also Falcom for allowing their biggest Ys game yet to suffer this treatment and misrepresentation. Import players told me the original story quality surpasses many parts of Cold Steel II, for example. Now I'll have to play this game in Japanese to know for sure whether or not I agree with that unless NISA produces a largely better English script somehow.