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Yu Suzuki/ Sega AM2 -Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter seiki
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It's arcade perfect, if you're ok with lightgun games on Wii with the differences I mentioned, as good as Wiimote was in an FPS or in a rail shooter like S&P, it was simply workable for a lightgun game and technically miles from an actual lightgun since you have to restrict yourself to keep it accurate enough. And what I said about HOTD 2 & 3 collection being a better fit. I mean I love that stuff on Wii and it was the only way to have it at home anyway, without a CRT TV and actual lightgun accessories at the time, just don't want to misrepresent the quality and get you disappointed. I also recommend SEGA's hand cannon Wiimote shell that came out for House of the Dead Overkill (the best part of that game) if you do get these, it's so rad. Mine's handle has yellowed but:
It's cooler in person and feels great in your hand. There's a cooler version with black handle, maybe region based.
Well, it might not actually fit Ghost Squad with its reliance on automatics, the Wii Zapper is probably better for that, but if you're only gonna get one shell, this fits most of the other games fine, is just so cool, and any shell is better than no shell of course. You can always steady it with your other hand under the barrel rather than under the handle too since it's so large, mock SMG.
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Virtua Cop Re-Birth was released on the PS2 in 2002 and is a compilation Virtua Cop 1 and 2 on one disk with some touched up graphics and guncon 2 support:
It was only ever released in Japan and Europe under the name Virtua Cop: Elite Edition, but was never released in NA. This is a really good way to play the original Virtua Cop games. I spent many countless hours playing the Japanese version with a GunCon 2 on a 30" CRT.
The Saturn home ports are nice, but they only ran at 30fps. The PS2 ports play at a nice smooth 60fps (with a visual makeover). The Win9x PC ports of Virtua Cop (or Virtua Squad) are great too. There is also a nice port of VC2 on the Dreamcast as well.
Virtua Cop 3 never gettig a home port is a great atrocity.
But on rail shooters are gaining some popularity again with VR gaming. There are quite a few of them on the PS4. I never really had issues with motion control style light gun games.
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Yeah it's pretty crazy to me that SEGA and Namco and others haven't jumped in VR with their lightgun franchises yet, perfect fits yet it's indies and other randoms that are doing the best of it on the platforms atm. At least SEGA's doing a HOTD3 (non VR) arcade.
You mean House of the Dead 5... or 6, does Overkill count? HOTD3 was released in 2002 (and has a lot of different console ports), and HOTD4 was 2005 and was released on PSN.
The Wii has some great ports of HOTD2, HOTD3 and Overkill, which was made originally for that console. And I agree, the Wii-Mote wasn't bad for light gun games, especially if you had a gun styled holster. The Wii has a lot of light gun games, and I always wanted Sega to port more of them to this console.
Haha, there you go!
Yeah dunno why I stuck 3 there lol. I already discussed 2&3 for Wii :P
SEGA ported another compilation of older arcade lightgun games to it, I forget their name, they're not as known but were solid.
Edit: oh, right, Gunblade NY & LA Machineguns.
SEGA ported another compilation of older arcade lightgun games to it, I forget their name, they're not as known but were solid.
Edit: oh, right, Gunblade NY & LA Machineguns.
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Wii was definitely a good platform for lightgun games. That's why I'm sort of excited for Switch as a platform for lightgun games, shouldn't one of the joy-cons be able to do the same as what the wiimote did? Or is the missing lightbar a problem?
I also had the Guncon 3 for PS3 around the same time as the Wii, but PS3 was severely lacking in lightgun games at the time and it took a lot more to set up.
I also had the Guncon 3 for PS3 around the same time as the Wii, but PS3 was severely lacking in lightgun games at the time and it took a lot more to set up.
Yes the missing sensor bar is a major problem if the motion sensors in joycons aren't as 1:1 good as those in current VR controllers (no clue if they are). Maybe we'll get a papercraft lightgun game with Labo and stick the reflective tape thing on the TV/Switch :P
Gunblade NY & LA Machineguns: Arcade Hits Pack, which was ported to the Wii by AM2 but not originally created by. It's the only home release of either game and was and still is high octane fun.
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If you hook one up to a CRT for lower latency, it is honestly a great system for light gun games, and it has a pretty big selection of them.
I remember that collection, but I had no idea that AM2 did the ports. Interesting.
I have never seen an R360 in person, from what I understand, they are pretty rare. When I look at videos like this:
How was this thing even legal? I would love to try one.
It is a shame that the original Virtua Fighter didn't get a release digitally, or something., The Saturn port was OK for the time, but it still has lower polygon models and suffers from a lot of flickering polygons. Virtua Fighter Remix was a nice update by AM1 for the Saturn. The 32x port is also oddly great, and in some ways better than the Saturn port.
I also have to echo this...
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution really is one of the best 3D fighting games on the PS2:
This game was a significant update over the original Virtua Fighter 4, a couple of addition characters, re-balanced fighters, and the updated quest mode with the store and all that stuff. Plus it came with Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary....
And it was all sold for $30.00USD (or your countries equivalent at the time).
This one sits in the top tier of 3D fighters on the PS2 for me. AM2 handled the port themselves and it is fantastic. The first port of VF4 on the PS2 is good too. But EVO is better.
But unfortunately it is hard to come by now. I just use an ISO on a modded PS2....
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution really is one of the best 3D fighting games on the PS2:
This game was a significant update over the original Virtua Fighter 4, a couple of addition characters, re-balanced fighters, and the updated quest mode with the store and all that stuff. Plus it came with Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary....
And it was all sold for $30.00USD (or your countries equivalent at the time).
This one sits in the top tier of 3D fighters on the PS2 for me. AM2 handled the port themselves and it is fantastic. The first port of VF4 on the PS2 is good too. But EVO is better.
But unfortunately it is hard to come by now. I just use an ISO on a modded PS2....
Anybody played both arcade version and PS2 port? Wanna ask more on graphic details downgrade. I know that character models have less polygons and textures have smaller resolution. What i can't understand yet though, was light/shadow also simplified? I can't judge by Demul emulations as it doesnt emulate arcade hardware 100%, so its really a question for those who own actual arcade or supergun w/PCB
Anyway, i love that aquarium stage of Pai Chan!
By the way, those stages are different in VF4 revisions. I mean, if you look at arenas in 4, 4EVO and 4FT you'll notice changes. Stages got more details and intro cutscene is different, too. If we talk aquarium stage again, it's amusing how they expanded it more and more. Same with other stages like Castle etc.
https://virtuafighter.com/threads/q-pais-stage.2066/
Was that joke post? :o Too good to believe
Anyway, i love that aquarium stage of Pai Chan!
By the way, those stages are different in VF4 revisions. I mean, if you look at arenas in 4, 4EVO and 4FT you'll notice changes. Stages got more details and intro cutscene is different, too. If we talk aquarium stage again, it's amusing how they expanded it more and more. Same with other stages like Castle etc.
https://virtuafighter.com/threads/q-pais-stage.2066/
Was that joke post? :o Too good to believe
In the PS2 version, there is a macro shark that swims around in the background that always tries to get into the camera. In VF4: Final Tuned, Pai's stage had a dolphin :
https://youtu.be/PyZOTOaRGYw?t=580
VF4 EVO for the PS2: https://youtu.be/7rh1mQtj0ek?t=349
The arcade game is higher polygon though and has better textures and higher resolution, though.
I mean is it really programmed to act like player? When one player knocked down, animation of dolphin swims down; flips when player backflips etc.
Thanks for more videos, and in my video example i meant shadows/lights in room, were they more complex?
Yay, shark!
Thanks for more videos, and in my video example i meant shadows/lights in room, were they more complex?
Yay, shark!
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Ah, I get what you are saying. And I don't know. It's been so long since I have seen a VF4 Evo machine, and I have only played Final Tuned on an emulator. I have my doubts that the PS2 has the pixel shader pipeline that NAOMI2 has. I think the PS2 does have some neat fixed shader-like effects. So maybe there are a few effects seen on the PS2 not seen on Naomi. But my guess is that NAOMI 2 would have better lighting overall? I dunno, just a guess.
It looks like the arcade character models also has bump mapping during the cinematic cutscenes (watching the off screen footage), which I do not believe the PS2 port has any bump mapping.
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I also like how crackles on floor (from falling fighter impact) stay during the whole match, unlike some other fightings where they disappear soon. Oh, and sand/snow physics, i guess made it to Beach Spikers from vf4
Those sun rays that go through water and glass into room, so they exist in both versions just more noticable in naomi version, judging by videos. Can't compare room floor lights though due to contrast issues.
Yeah sorry i'm nerdy about all this stuff, just for some reason i find vf stages lovely and details to look for.
Those sun rays that go through water and glass into room, so they exist in both versions just more noticable in naomi version, judging by videos. Can't compare room floor lights though due to contrast issues.
Yeah sorry i'm nerdy about all this stuff, just for some reason i find vf stages lovely and details to look for.
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Yeah that route is still there, but it is not called "Saturn Way" anymore. The Saturn exclusive path in VC2 actually is present in all home ports. Pretty sure that both the PS2 and Sega Dreamcast ports of Virtua Cop 2 were based on the Windows 9x PC version. And the PC port was based directly on the Sega Saturn port, which contained all of the bonus features from the Saturn game.
But honestly, the Model 2 original still looks the best, visually.
Does anyone have any experience working something like this? Skip to the end and it seems to work well.
Is it plug and play if you don't have a cabinet but just a PC? Edit: yeah it's standard USB and stuff.
Also, they seem to work just like the Wii remote/gunshell stuff, with sensor points etc. Can I just emulate this with my Wiimote?
Any easy step by step guides if so :P
Edit: yeah they sell those guns for 90-120 euros depending on if they have recoil so, cheaper alternatives needed for sure.
Looks like Naomi arcade lightgun games used a setup pretty much like the Wii too but with like 10 points of reference all around the screen for extra accuracy/no drift etc. I guess that cements it's totally impossible to get anything like an actual gun on flat panels if they didn't even figure it out for expensive flashy Naomi arcade games but I can see it not being a problem with so many lights.
I don't understand why Aimtrak is so expensive for such a simple piece of hardware. Just a gun style Wiimote (hell, not even that, no motion sensors or a speaker and other shit to speak of, just the infrared camera really) with 2 buttons, trigger, an optional recoil kit (I think the recoil is just in feel, not with a moving part like Namco's Time Crisis arcade) and a sensor bar. Wtf?
Is it plug and play if you don't have a cabinet but just a PC? Edit: yeah it's standard USB and stuff.
Also, they seem to work just like the Wii remote/gunshell stuff, with sensor points etc. Can I just emulate this with my Wiimote?
Any easy step by step guides if so :P
Edit: yeah they sell those guns for 90-120 euros depending on if they have recoil so, cheaper alternatives needed for sure.
Looks like Naomi arcade lightgun games used a setup pretty much like the Wii too but with like 10 points of reference all around the screen for extra accuracy/no drift etc. I guess that cements it's totally impossible to get anything like an actual gun on flat panels if they didn't even figure it out for expensive flashy Naomi arcade games but I can see it not being a problem with so many lights.
I don't understand why Aimtrak is so expensive for such a simple piece of hardware. Just a gun style Wiimote (hell, not even that, no motion sensors or a speaker and other shit to speak of, just the infrared camera really) with 2 buttons, trigger, an optional recoil kit (I think the recoil is just in feel, not with a moving part like Namco's Time Crisis arcade) and a sensor bar. Wtf?
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Well, I hooked up my Wii to the old CRT TV I haven't used in ages to get some HOTD/Ghost Squad fun but its picture quality has degraded so much, it's a blurry mess with dark vertical stripes to the sides, it's ready for recycling I guess. What's weird is that when the Wii OS goes dark after inactivity etc the darker image is fine, not blurred and distorted. Oh well.
After doing some research for cheaper PC lightgun options than the above post I just ordered a mayflash dolphinbar, I'll let you all know next month when it arrives (I chose the cheapest delivery option from Amazon UK so yeah) if it enables a workable lightgun setup. My benchmark will be to play HOTD or similar without crosshair enabled and how that feels. The hand cannon shell does have passable iron sights so I can ensure accuracy with that to a degree. The dolphinbar is a usb sensor bar coupled with a bluetooth receiver specifically made for Wiimotes with proper drivers and various usability settings, it's normally for Dolphin use (obviously) but people also make it work with emulators like MAME and even general PC use since it has some kind of mouse mode lots of emulators use for lightgun games (and also an xinput mode for emulators that expect analog input from lightguns or whatever, but less developed emulators may not have any workable input settings for lightguns or even only accept real lightguns) and with the proper calibration and settings it works pretty damn well according to users, there's also other software like Touchmote for other uses and options, hopefully it's not too much to figure out but it was cheap anyway and at the very least I'll conveniently use Dolphin to fully replace my Wii. I also almost bought an smg style shell for Ghost Squad, but I'll leave that for after confirming it works.
After doing some research for cheaper PC lightgun options than the above post I just ordered a mayflash dolphinbar, I'll let you all know next month when it arrives (I chose the cheapest delivery option from Amazon UK so yeah) if it enables a workable lightgun setup. My benchmark will be to play HOTD or similar without crosshair enabled and how that feels. The hand cannon shell does have passable iron sights so I can ensure accuracy with that to a degree. The dolphinbar is a usb sensor bar coupled with a bluetooth receiver specifically made for Wiimotes with proper drivers and various usability settings, it's normally for Dolphin use (obviously) but people also make it work with emulators like MAME and even general PC use since it has some kind of mouse mode lots of emulators use for lightgun games (and also an xinput mode for emulators that expect analog input from lightguns or whatever, but less developed emulators may not have any workable input settings for lightguns or even only accept real lightguns) and with the proper calibration and settings it works pretty damn well according to users, there's also other software like Touchmote for other uses and options, hopefully it's not too much to figure out but it was cheap anyway and at the very least I'll conveniently use Dolphin to fully replace my Wii. I also almost bought an smg style shell for Ghost Squad, but I'll leave that for after confirming it works.
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Since we have listed off almost every AM2 game, let's do the rest, including more obscure ones:
Arabian Fight
The first three games I am gonna cover here are games from the often overlooked System 32 board. Arabian Fight I don't hear much good things about, often being thought as one of Sega's more mediocore games. Big sprites however. No console port.
F1 Exhaust Note
An F1 racing game. I think it looks very good, just like all arcade games from this time. F1 Super Lap has actual licences. So, Sega can release without any license if they really want too. No console port.
Soreike Kokology
Kokology is a popular TV show from Japan back in the day about psychology. Sega has made 2 quiz arcade games about it. No console port
Burning Rival
This is supposed to be not that good of a fighting game. No console port
Digital Dance Mix
J-Pop rhythm game for Saturn.
18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker
AM2 of course played in the whole Sega arcade trend of simulation arcade games. Got a PS2, GameCube and Dreamcast port.
Mahjong Arcade
This is has been getting updated for more than 10 years. Also got a mobile version and PC port too. This one get's praised for a ridiciolus amount of customization options, one of the best regarded Mahjong games.
The King of Route 66
Sequel to 18 Wheeler. Got a PS2 port.
Beach Spikers
I think this came out before Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball. Got a GameCube port.
Sega Golf Club
Got a PS3 port and generally was only avaible in Japan
Rhythm Tengoku
The arcade port of this Nintendo game was indeed made by Sega AM2
R-Tuned
A Need for Speed Underground esque game in 2009? Seems a bit late to the party. Has VF5 character models. No console port.
Loads of Miku
AM2 had a a hand in every arcade Miku, and also the 3DS ones. The arcade version uses the VF5 engine.
Kancolle Arcade
People will laugh but this is a geniunly good game, with loads of depth and things to collect and customize. Your own team of weaponized battleship girls battle against enemies and you level up. It is thought as much better than the browser and PC games. And in my mind it is pretty much the best looking thing from this franchise.
Arabian Fight
The first three games I am gonna cover here are games from the often overlooked System 32 board. Arabian Fight I don't hear much good things about, often being thought as one of Sega's more mediocore games. Big sprites however. No console port.
F1 Exhaust Note
An F1 racing game. I think it looks very good, just like all arcade games from this time. F1 Super Lap has actual licences. So, Sega can release without any license if they really want too. No console port.
Soreike Kokology
Kokology is a popular TV show from Japan back in the day about psychology. Sega has made 2 quiz arcade games about it. No console port
Burning Rival
This is supposed to be not that good of a fighting game. No console port
Digital Dance Mix
J-Pop rhythm game for Saturn.
18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker
AM2 of course played in the whole Sega arcade trend of simulation arcade games. Got a PS2, GameCube and Dreamcast port.
Mahjong Arcade
This is has been getting updated for more than 10 years. Also got a mobile version and PC port too. This one get's praised for a ridiciolus amount of customization options, one of the best regarded Mahjong games.
The King of Route 66
Sequel to 18 Wheeler. Got a PS2 port.
Beach Spikers
I think this came out before Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball. Got a GameCube port.
Sega Golf Club
Got a PS3 port and generally was only avaible in Japan
Rhythm Tengoku
The arcade port of this Nintendo game was indeed made by Sega AM2
R-Tuned
A Need for Speed Underground esque game in 2009? Seems a bit late to the party. Has VF5 character models. No console port.
Loads of Miku
AM2 had a a hand in every arcade Miku, and also the 3DS ones. The arcade version uses the VF5 engine.
Kancolle Arcade
People will laugh but this is a geniunly good game, with loads of depth and things to collect and customize. Your own team of weaponized battleship girls battle against enemies and you level up. It is thought as much better than the browser and PC games. And in my mind it is pretty much the best looking thing from this franchise.
First time really attempting to appreciate playing the original OutRun, and damn what a fun game. It took a little bit for it to really 'click', but it's so much fun.
I'd played it a bit before in Shenmue 2, and once in Japan on an original cabinet but didn't have the mindset to really try and explore the game more.
The graphics are really lovely, the sprite scaling works so well to give an impression of speed and action. The music is of course great, and the gameplay simple but addictive.
Oh, the traffic can be annoying, but that's the point, no?
I'd played it a bit before in Shenmue 2, and once in Japan on an original cabinet but didn't have the mindset to really try and explore the game more.
The graphics are really lovely, the sprite scaling works so well to give an impression of speed and action. The music is of course great, and the gameplay simple but addictive.
Oh, the traffic can be annoying, but that's the point, no?
Namie Amuro is real singer, i guess they motion captured her dance? And yeah i've read they actually used supposedly "virtua fighter 3 saturn engine" here and that's it.
virtua fighter 3 never was developed on saturn. seems more like the virtua fighter 2 saturn engine.
where? in japan it is alive and well. elsewhere, round1 und other chains in america are improving is my feeling.
Why didn't Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony/Etc give Yu a job? He's a living legend in the industry, so why is he having to make Kickstarter games?
Why doesn't he receive similar treatment to Kojima? Is it some kind of negative treatment for having worked for Sega?
Why doesn't he receive similar treatment to Kojima? Is it some kind of negative treatment for having worked for Sega?
It was some time in development, then cancelled
https://segaretro.org/Virtua_Fighter_3#Saturn_version
Anyway, now i can't find anything proving that Dance Mix was related to that, so ok.
yeah only the bigger cities might have some...but Sega alone won't revive that (and how could they)
SEGA in general has a bunch of interesting Arcade games that probably won't see the light of the on the west, which is quite a shame.
Contribute compelling software experiences to the revival. A new social source of entertainment.
There was that World Club Champion Football game. You collect and trade football cards and use them on the game. Quite the perfect game for Europe, but, it seems people did not respond that well.
First time I've ever seen this.
There was that World Club Champion Football game. You collect and trade football cards and use them on the game. Quite the perfect game for Europe, but, it seems people did not respond that well.
If Sega World Drivers Championship doesn't get at least a European release it's time to file some formal complaints. The new House of the Dead game should easily get Western ports tho; lightgun games do pretty well in general.
IIRC VF3 was in development for Saturn, and there were plans for an expansion slot to help with that as well. But other sources say they were trying to get it to eventually run on the unit without need of an expansion slot.
[[Here's a great video that goes into the whole situation.]]
Yeah, Round1 and Dave 'n Busters deserve some credit in that department as well. I wish there were more Flipper McCoys, but I enjoy the one about a city away from where I stay (it's been a long time since last going there though).
While I get the feeling they do this in Japan quite regularly, it'd be nice if Sega did something Raw Thrills usually do and enter partnerships with these restaurants to design games for them. Speaking of Raw Thrills, I think they deserve some credit too. Some of their machines are kinda tacky-looking to me on an aesthetic level, but they've seemingly been going for the kind of output (in both certain genres and somewhat in quantity) Sega, Namco, Konami, Capcom etc. did in the late '80s and '90s. I was pleasantly surprised to learn of their catalog a while ago.
I hope w/ the recent Dayton and upcoming HoTD/SWDC this is a sign Sega'll be putting out more games of that ilk consistently for some time to come...and hopefully at least some of them get Western distribution or home/PC ports.
IMHO with the growing isolation online gaming and just the internet in general is creating in terms of creating clusters of bubbles for people to recluse themselves into and not have to bother with physical face-to-face interaction, and the fact online interaction just can't replace the nuances and little things you enjoy being person-to-person, there's some chance for arcades to continue growing in the West, maybe not to golden era levels of activity but anything close to that is possible.
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Just want to mention that Border Break, a new game (based on an older arcade game) had an open beta yesterday and launched with the beautiful AM2 logo intro.
This thread is a treasure trove. I had no idea that Rhythm Tengoku had an arcade version, much less one made by Sega.
Fun fact: Virtua Cop 3 will run on either a dev. OG Xbox, or an Xbox modded with 128MB RAM.
This interview that was done at the recent Magic Monaco conference has some good insight from Yu Suzuki himself:
http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2018/03/yu-suzukis-magic-conference-in-english.html
Credit to SWITCH.
http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2018/03/yu-suzukis-magic-conference-in-english.html
Credit to SWITCH.
Thanks, nice to hear some anecdotes about his inspirations. Games inspired by other games is more the main thing these days, which isn't bad but it can mean things become a little incestuous.