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Zack Snyder's Justice League |OT| #ReleasedTheSnyderCut (HBO Max)
- Thread starter Penguin
- Start date
Cyborg's whole arc and the moment he destroys the unity, how could anyone think to cut this? It's insane. You just can't have a decent climax without this.
I honestly loved that costume in the comics with the jacket before Flashpoint took everything away, I really hope they actually use it if they do a WW3 in modern times.
I remember people got so mad at the time because of how much skin it covered..
I'm always curious to hear a woman's thoughts on WW84, because clearly it's meant to be a movie empowering woman (which is great) but general consensus is there are so many issues with the movie.
"I am not broken and I am not alone"
So good.
Ray Fisher was dismissed by many people, even folk on this forum.
He was great in this and I hope his career picks up again. WB really owe the man a full apology.
Great, will be intresting!
This would, what I can see at least, be the most sexualised outfit in the movie:
For real, that whole scene with "I'm not broken" hits hard. Ray Fisher is a treasure.
Diana is a pathetic loser rapist who can't get over the death of the first guy she met 70 years ago and spent a few months tops with, if that.
The opening fight is her winking at some kid, taking great lengths to not kill the robber only to then drop him from great heights through a police car... for no fucking reason.
She literally jumps between a complete psycho borderline woman incel and Bugs Bunny, the serious stuff has no weight and the action stuff is corny ugly and dumb looking, and Diana makes the worst facial expressions ever because Gal Gadot has negative charisma and the least realistic facial expressions I've ever seen.
It's the worst comic book movie I've ever seen, it was boring and morally repugnant
Uh, not trying to talk over this discourse, as I am not a woman and can't claim authority over this discussion. At the same time...
Feminism != Masculinity.
Wonder Woman is not a less feminist character because she wears heels or backless tops. One of the pillars of feminism is that all women are equal and valid regardless of how they choose to present themselves. In 2021, this shouldn't be hard.
Feminism != Masculinity.
Wonder Woman is not a less feminist character because she wears heels or backless tops. One of the pillars of feminism is that all women are equal and valid regardless of how they choose to present themselves. In 2021, this shouldn't be hard.
Yep, he sells it, just completely, which isn't easy considering the CGI. It's definitely one of the best executed scenes in the movie, and it'll be a good thing if this movie coming out helps to undo some of the shitty things WB did to him. It's unbelievable that the studio is yet to issue an apology and a promise to do better by him and all the people who have been negatively impacted by the reshoots.
Alright, so I'm gonna write up my thoughts on The Snyder Cut and subject you all to them.
1. This is still a Snyder movie. It's long, self-indulgent, nowhere near as smart as it wants to play at being, and half the movie is in slow motion. If you don't like Snyder's style, you probably won't dig this. But I do think it's bar none his best DC movie.
2. It's a marked improvement on BvS and Man of Steel, just by virtue of being coherent when those movies largely are not. This comes at the cost of a four hour (Christ) runtime but, hey, its something. Also, there are actual moments, built in to the story, of the heroes saving people, and it doesn't seem like a terrible chore or burden on them! Hooray!
3. Snyder has largely cut back on his love of brutality in the action scenes. There's less ultraviolence in this film than his others. The exception seems to be with Wonder Woman (along with the other Amazons), whose choreography gets so brutal that she feels like she's in a different movie. Like everyone else is throwing punches and shooting goofy laser beams and here comes Wonder Woman, cutting off heads and impaling people on her sword. I know WW doesn't really have a no-kill rule like the others (and nobody has a no-kill rule on Parademons), but the brutality of her scenes still comes off as weird. Also I legit thought she blew up a bunch of hostages in her first scene, lol.
4. Cyborg is given an arc, which is nice. It's probably the best part of the film. He's also really the only hero who is. Aquaman, Superman, and Flash all play at having arcs but they aren't really clear about what they learn or why they change. The film just kinda says "Hey they learned their lesson!" Batman and Wonder Woman are both kind of useless, though a few Affleck face shots play at the idea of his guilt over the events of BvS, and Wondey gets a nice scene with Cyborg to empathize with him.
5. If you watch it, feel free to skip the last twenty minutes or so. The "Epilogue" chapter is mostly expanded universe stuff that sours the rest of the movie, unless you really want to hear the Joker make a handjob joke.
6. Steppenwolf and Darkseid look really derpy.
7. I feel like the narrative on Joss Whedon's Justice League has changed a bit in the last few years. When it came out, I remember most of the reaction being that it was just kind of a boring, lame movie that was obviously stitched together from two different directors, but not offensively bad. Hell, I remember leaving the theater and saying "well that was lame but at least it was better than Batman V Superman". I think the Snyder cut is an improvement, and at the very least there's much more of a core vision to this movie. But I don't personally see quite the insane level of upgrade others are seeing, outside of Cyborg's expansion.
1. This is still a Snyder movie. It's long, self-indulgent, nowhere near as smart as it wants to play at being, and half the movie is in slow motion. If you don't like Snyder's style, you probably won't dig this. But I do think it's bar none his best DC movie.
2. It's a marked improvement on BvS and Man of Steel, just by virtue of being coherent when those movies largely are not. This comes at the cost of a four hour (Christ) runtime but, hey, its something. Also, there are actual moments, built in to the story, of the heroes saving people, and it doesn't seem like a terrible chore or burden on them! Hooray!
3. Snyder has largely cut back on his love of brutality in the action scenes. There's less ultraviolence in this film than his others. The exception seems to be with Wonder Woman (along with the other Amazons), whose choreography gets so brutal that she feels like she's in a different movie. Like everyone else is throwing punches and shooting goofy laser beams and here comes Wonder Woman, cutting off heads and impaling people on her sword. I know WW doesn't really have a no-kill rule like the others (and nobody has a no-kill rule on Parademons), but the brutality of her scenes still comes off as weird. Also I legit thought she blew up a bunch of hostages in her first scene, lol.
4. Cyborg is given an arc, which is nice. It's probably the best part of the film. He's also really the only hero who is. Aquaman, Superman, and Flash all play at having arcs but they aren't really clear about what they learn or why they change. The film just kinda says "Hey they learned their lesson!" Batman and Wonder Woman are both kind of useless, though a few Affleck face shots play at the idea of his guilt over the events of BvS, and Wondey gets a nice scene with Cyborg to empathize with him.
5. If you watch it, feel free to skip the last twenty minutes or so. The "Epilogue" chapter is mostly expanded universe stuff that sours the rest of the movie, unless you really want to hear the Joker make a handjob joke.
6. Steppenwolf and Darkseid look really derpy.
7. I feel like the narrative on Joss Whedon's Justice League has changed a bit in the last few years. When it came out, I remember most of the reaction being that it was just kind of a boring, lame movie that was obviously stitched together from two different directors, but not offensively bad. Hell, I remember leaving the theater and saying "well that was lame but at least it was better than Batman V Superman". I think the Snyder cut is an improvement, and at the very least there's much more of a core vision to this movie. But I don't personally see quite the insane level of upgrade others are seeing, outside of Cyborg's expansion.
I mean yes but these people aren't real so the motives of the creators also have to be taken into consideration, tbh Diana's stuff isn't a major sexualization issue for me, I just find her outfits boring other than #600
Also, WB better bank an Affleck/Leto/Manganiello Batman shindig. Deathstroke's tease and seeing a rapport between Affleck and Leto, short as it is, are ideas that deserve being followed through. I say this not because I necessarily want to see a follow up to ZSJL (I would watch if they make it, but I think things got well tied up with that), but because Snyder managed to get a great tease done with these two ideas.
I would have been okay with corny if the rest of the movie is also corny but I like how the corniness in the opening section of WW84 is soon followed by the drunk man trying to rape Kristin Wigg character. It's just insane why they think that tonal shift is okay.
Oh yeah, and don't get me wrong that's a fair take!
I was more responding to the idea of "WW is wearing heels so sexualization!" take.
'
i think everyone agrees that they for sure wasted affleck but i think they did S good job with BVS so what do i know. I think bvs is the best Snyder movie too followed by man of steel then justice league but they are all good imo
I mean if your not seeing the improvement just watch this.
Whether you consider it an upgrade or not the change is rather substantial.
The Snyder Cut was great! A massive improvement over the Whedon cut(and I enjoyed they for what it was at the time)
I'm not so sure this would have been as great if it released because I think it needed the 4 hours to tell its story, but it was definitely an improvement. I'd love to see it continued in another 4 hour movie or a series or something.
I'm not so sure this would have been as great if it released because I think it needed the 4 hours to tell its story, but it was definitely an improvement. I'd love to see it continued in another 4 hour movie or a series or something.
That the movie tries to shame her for defending herself is appalling, just awful.
The issue with Diana's design in such a movie is how she looks in contrast to the other (male) superheros. Most of them have their entire bodies covered aside from half their face or their head.
And then you have her standing there with them in what might as well be underwear in comparison, with constant 'fan service' shots.
There was that one cool redesign she got a while back (in a comic?) where she had pants and a nice jacket. Imo they should have gone with something like that.
She has great fight scenes but her attire makes them feel less so.
And then you have her standing there with them in what might as well be underwear in comparison, with constant 'fan service' shots.
There was that one cool redesign she got a while back (in a comic?) where she had pants and a nice jacket. Imo they should have gone with something like that.
She has great fight scenes but her attire makes them feel less so.
I've not watched the Whedon abomination since I first caught it in cinemas.
It's even worse than I actually remember it being.
It's genuinely astonishing they decided to redo the final third of the movie.
Oh and don;t forget it;s Wiig getting rough with the 2x attempted rapist that solidifies that she's the villain now
I'll have to strongly disagree with that. While obviouly I respect your opinion, as it's your opinion, I left the theater in 2017 feeling like the saddest DC fan ever. I felt insulted by that film. It was an awful movie (I'm admittedly a Snyder fan) and I could tell every scene Joss Whedon wrote/directed apart from Snyder's, and thought that was the reason the movie was ruined. I knew that there was a better version just by the Snyder scenes included in the theatrical cut, but I could never imagine the ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement would result in something as substantial as what we got this week.
I think this four hour version is a better film in every possible way, like, it's not even a fun comparison for me. Even the Snyder scenes that actually were in the theatrical cut are so much better here, there's more context, they look better, they absolutely sound better with the new soundtrack. It's just incredible how it went from the Joss Whedon abomination that hit theaters to this. And who would have thought that Snyder would release the most coherent version of this story (I'm a fan but I'm not blind to his past mistakes).
Jesus christ I'd forgotten how much of this movie literally just looked like a video game
I didn't see any explicit fan service shots in this cut.
Well not for Wonder Woman. Plenty of fan service and sweater sniffing for Superman and Aquaman fans.
Shes dressed according to her theme though, much like an ancient Greek warrior. When promo shots for her first appeared with some dark colouring some thought it was for a new Xena film, which it isn't but they both share similarities (Greek warriors, mythology, Greek gods, etc)
Her fellow Amazons dress much the same, its just she has a bit more colour.
In her first solo film, Steve and his assistant (forgot her name) took her to try on clothes to cover her up more but they just restricted her movement. So yeah she can wear more clothing but when action is required and to be more flexible she needs to wear her uniform.
I'm not sure i understand the criticism of the whole thing. He Man is one of my face characters and I'm a male and the guy wears much less than her as he is almost nude except for a short skirt/loincloth and boots that he wears and I have no issue with it.
Steppenwolf looked like that!? Holy hell.
Steppenwolf and Cyborg is the two main things that improved by far the most in this cut.
Man, I really appreciate how everyone had much more defined roles during that final battle. Here everyone just seems to jump back and forth.
It feels like this world is empty. I know everyone is going to say there's 20 extras in this scene or in universe of the movie everyone is on vacation but still citizens in fear and reaction helps.
also we're the Kent's out of money because Zod destroyed the house and ma Kent spent every dime fixing it back up on her waitress pay?
also we're the Kent's out of money because Zod destroyed the house and ma Kent spent every dime fixing it back up on her waitress pay?
I felt insane watching this movie. I went in grinning at the stupidity, ready to just shut my brain off and go with it, and by the time I tapped out I had been beaten into exhaustion by the over-bearing music, heavy-handed melodrama, arduous action sequences, hilariously on-the-nose needle drops, somber overtones and generally pretentious presentation. The pacing is thick as pudding, the script is flat and the movie plods along with one self-aggrandizing scene after another in a way I felt drained me of all energy. That fucking score is relentless. The action scenes are honestly goofy in their camera movements and speed-ramping.
Sorry guys. Gave it a shot. I'm happy for the people who enjoyed it but can't say I get it.
Sorry guys. Gave it a shot. I'm happy for the people who enjoyed it but can't say I get it.
That's because He-Man is a male power-fantasy where as Wonder Woman is presented through the Male Gaze as a sexual object
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You get to see her undies plenty of times.
Her outfit makes it hard not to.
Come on now, that's such a silly excuse not to give her more clothing.
Flash can move with the speed of light or beyond while fully covered up aside from his jaw and eyes but WW needs to be in her underwear and mini skirt.
Like I said, watch her standing with the others in a scene. She stands out like a sore thumb. It doesn't make it a bad movie for me (I really enjoyed it) but it is what it is and could be done better.
Have they confirmed what new scenes Snyder filmed last year? I feel the whole ending epilogue was added recently. Even Ben Affleck looked way smaller.
I liked it more than I thought I would. It was decent (I thought the theatrical was OK).
Snyder's scenes can look amazing. But his direction is weak. That's the biggest takeaway.
You could have many of the slow-mo scenes at regular speed and save at least half hour. Some slow-mo scenes probably could've been cut, straight up.
CG is wonky, but that was expected. CG looked better when the boxes were uniting.
Dialogue - blimey, this needs work.
(Paraphrasing a bit)
"I have the second Mother Box"
"Where is the third Mother Box?"
" The Third Mother Box is somewhere"
"Gather all the Mother Boxes"
"I will find the Third Mother Box and unite all Mother Boxes"
Like, it was such awkward writing for that scene in particular. Almost like reading a businesses email exchange between different language level employees!
Anything Wonder Woman says is awful. Her acting is awful. Some of Batman's lines are flat as well. Some of Cyborg's delivery was a bit meh too.
Martha Manhunter scene was pointless. End scene for MM was fine, however, but would have been nice to see human form in a few odd scenes as a "Why is this random guy in random places".
Cyborg's story, Steppenwolf actually being decent (as a strong boss, I mean), and some other bits were good.
Honestly, if they cut some bits out and released this as 2 movies in a single year, followed by more DCEU tie ins, I would have been down. But as it is, I am far too ready for a full on reboot. The Trinity actors need to change (Gadot can't act, Cavill is a bit old and Affleck too).
Also, the sound effect of the teleporting out effect from Steppenwolf is too funny!
Snyder's scenes can look amazing. But his direction is weak. That's the biggest takeaway.
You could have many of the slow-mo scenes at regular speed and save at least half hour. Some slow-mo scenes probably could've been cut, straight up.
CG is wonky, but that was expected. CG looked better when the boxes were uniting.
Dialogue - blimey, this needs work.
(Paraphrasing a bit)
"I have the second Mother Box"
"Where is the third Mother Box?"
" The Third Mother Box is somewhere"
"Gather all the Mother Boxes"
"I will find the Third Mother Box and unite all Mother Boxes"
Like, it was such awkward writing for that scene in particular. Almost like reading a businesses email exchange between different language level employees!
Anything Wonder Woman says is awful. Her acting is awful. Some of Batman's lines are flat as well. Some of Cyborg's delivery was a bit meh too.
Martha Manhunter scene was pointless. End scene for MM was fine, however, but would have been nice to see human form in a few odd scenes as a "Why is this random guy in random places".
Cyborg's story, Steppenwolf actually being decent (as a strong boss, I mean), and some other bits were good.
Honestly, if they cut some bits out and released this as 2 movies in a single year, followed by more DCEU tie ins, I would have been down. But as it is, I am far too ready for a full on reboot. The Trinity actors need to change (Gadot can't act, Cavill is a bit old and Affleck too).
Also, the sound effect of the teleporting out effect from Steppenwolf is too funny!
This just made me not want to watch it...adding an few extra scenes doesn't make the ending any less awful
It's not adding a few extra scenes. The final third in the Snyder cut is completely different to the theatrical version.
The whole film is, really.
What fucking idiot thought that the Flash pushing a truck and not looking faster than superman was a better idea for his big moment than what Snyder did?