Zelda needs more of these moments again

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

The ambient music. The overall atmosphere. There's plenty to critizise BotW for, but what bugs me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game. When the epitome of that sort of stuff is a monster part merchant snapping at you once randomly and a Bloodmoon which appears over and over again, you know you kinda missed out.

Remember the most jolly Zelda under the sun? Yeah...
Warning, complete potato quality.

I hope the tone the BoTW2 teaser sets stays in the game. I hope the fact we explore caves and stuff leads to moments like the above. I hope redeads are coming back.

Finalrush · Dec 3, 2019

Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the

Horse God

comes to mind.

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

Finalrush said:
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the

Horse God

comes to mind.

I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.

JohnnyMoses · Dec 3, 2019

Finalrush said:
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the

Horse God

comes to mind.

I've played BotW about 180 hours and didn't know what this was about. THAT'S what I love about BotW.

Christo750 · Dec 3, 2019

Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the

corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru

qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.

Lilo_D · Dec 3, 2019

Christo750 said:
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the

corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru

qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.

Quote this, my favourite gaming moment of this gen

Kor of Memory · Dec 3, 2019

The Pitch black forest was a good bit of suspense. Lighting the torches to find the way. Fighting the Hinox in the dark. I remember being on edge the entire time.

Finalrush · Dec 3, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.

I dunno, shifting from a beautiful sunny field to suddenly finding something like that felt like a big tonal shift to me, and definitely felt creepy. Same for the example above. The moments aren't scripted tonal shifts, but that's kinda why I enjoyed them. I'd even argue first encountering guardians feels like a similar sort of shift. It might even be that there are so many of these stark contrasts that they almost don't register in the same way for you because they're so frequent. The whole game is built around discovering things that shift the mood.

KartuneDX · Dec 3, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.

This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

Christo750 said:
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the

corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru

qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.

I'm talking about the ambient music playing and complete shift in atmosphere from just a few moments ago before you entered the crypt. Finding and fighting the corrupt dragon was amazing, but it didn't really change the atmopshere all that much.
I need the contrast of the joyus, whimsical, adventerous, to the creepy and unsettling. Especially OoT and Wind waker excel in this. Majora's was just creepy/weird throughout the entire game lol which isn't too bad either.

TP tried but was way too tryhard with these elements, and the lower part of the ancient cistern being the "creepiest" part of SS was a fail, too. (outside the guys in the spirit realm I guess.) When I saw the Bloodmoon animation before launch leaked I was excited, but then it left me disappointed.

Lobster Roll · Dec 3, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
The ambient music. The overall athmopshere. There's plenty to critizise BotW for, but what bugs me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game. When the epitome of that sort of stuff is a monster part merchant snapping at you once randomly and a Bloodmoon which appears over and over again, you know you kinda missed out.

Remember the most jolly Zelda under the sun? Yeah...
Warning, complete potato quality.

I hope the tone the BoTW2 teaser sets stays in the game. I hope the fact we explore caves and stuff leads to moments like the above. I hope redeads are coming back.

I agree that redeads and creepier moments in BOTW2 would be great, but disagree about the lack of tonal shifts. The mixture of exploring a post-war world that now belongs to nature has its tone shifted HARD when ancient, mechanical, laser-firing Aztec/Mayan/Alien robots and shrines enter the scene now and again. It's not the creepy tone that redeads bring, but it's still a hard tone shift.

Servbot24 · Dec 3, 2019

Imagine if only one of the dungeons in BOTW were a beast. It would have been such an incredible discovery and moment, a stand out in the entire series. But since they were repetitive, they managed to making giant walking dungeons boring somehow.

That's what they need to get away from - open world template design. Worry less about scale and more about unique scenarios with potent mood and atmosphere.

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

Finalrush said:
I dunno, shifting from a beautiful sunny field to suddenly finding something like that felt like a big tonal shift to me, and definitely felt creepy. Same for the example above. The moments aren't scripted tonal shifts, but that's kinda why I enjoyed them. I'd even argue first encountering guardians feels like a similar sort of shift. It might even be that there are so many of these stark contrasts that they almost don't register in the same way for you because they're so frequent. The whole game is built around discovering things that shift the mood.

The shift, was there, but I felt more curious what on earth that is than being creeped out or anything. Same with the Lost Woods. Like, it just didn't get there sadly.

KartuneDX said:
This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.

That's more like it. Too bad the music doesn't really fit, imo.

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

Lobster Roll said:
I agree that redeads and creepier moments in BOTW2 would be great, but disagree about the lack of tonal shifts. The mixture of exploring a post-war world that now belongs to nature has its tone shifted HARD when ancient, mechanical, laser-firing Aztec/Mayan/Alien robots and shrines enter the scene now and again. It's not the creepy tone that redeads bring, but it's still a hard tone shift.

It's not even the redeads. The color palette and music play a way larger role. In that video, even before you get into the room with the redeads, shit is creepy as fuck. Just listen to the music.

fourfourfun · Dec 3, 2019

Finalrush said:
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the

Horse God

comes to mind.

Stumbling on

the corrupted dragon

was pretty awesome. What I really like is that I didn't have to invoke a quest - which there was one - to encounter it.

I rarely got quest pointers from towns and such, so the entire game was one of discovery. Really appreciated that I didn't have to be fed beats for the entire game.

Deleted member 33533 · Dec 3, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.

I don't know, I found it to be pretty creepy and a tonal shift. It was surreal in a way and felt really organic. It especially was built up well in the sense that I kept seeing the glow from far away and wondering what it was until I finally managed to be nearby when it happened.

Wamb0wneD said:
I'm talking about the ambient music playing and complete shift in atmosphere from just a few moments ago before you entered the crypt. Finding and fighting the corrupt dragon was amazing, but it didn't really change the atmopshere all that much.

Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about here either. Naydra was definitely a change in atmosphere. I remember feeling unnerved by the ominous feeling climbing the mountain. It changes gradually from a quiet snowy mountain to a dark, creepy vibe as you hear the dragon's breathing and it's music slowly fade in as you get closer.

logash · Dec 3, 2019

KartuneDX said:
This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.

Hands down my favorite boss in the entire game. It felt like a classic Zelda boss. I love Breath of the Wild for breathing new life into the series but now that they added all the new stuff, I hope they look at the old stuff and see what could be implemented into this new system. Bigger bolder dungeons with unique boss fights for one thing.

Xlad · Dec 3, 2019

talk about tone shifts in Botw
I also think of glowing light at

Satori mountain

very enchanting moment that special for the place.

Karateka · Dec 3, 2019

Finalrush said:
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the

Horse God

comes to mind.

Dont understand hiw thats the case...Its better because most people wont get to expérience it?

Angst · Dec 3, 2019

KartuneDX said:
This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.

What the fuck the music is so good

Asbsand · Dec 3, 2019

I completely agree OP. Not much else to say really. I would even like it in an open air game, but what we need is the feeling of descending into an area that was not supposed to be trodden and discover its horrors. A few areas had suggestions of an unease and eerie tone in BotW but genuine "re-dead" moments have been absent since Skyward Sword and even Twilight Princess.

BoTW was tonally stagnant for sure. It was too serene in a weird way like "oooh everything is so magical and natural"

Biske · Dec 3, 2019

Yeah Ocarina of Time did have some really stellar moments where the world was so bleak and dark, not always in a horrifying way, but in a sad shitty way. The time skip was pretty awesome for that, like "hey remember that farm you loved....eeeeh?"

Finalrush · Dec 3, 2019

Karateka said:
Dont understand hiw thats the case...Its better because most people wont get to expérience it?

It's better because the moments are actually surprising and special knowing that not everyone will see that same moment, at least to me personally.

Karateka · Dec 3, 2019

Finalrush said:
It's better because the moments are actually surprising and special knowing that not everyone will see that same moment, at least to me personally.

this kind of attempt at making moments seem original fails on me. It seems to me the only reason youd cut something down to a sidequest is because it isn't good enough to be part of the main quest, or because you don't really think it is that thematically important to the work.

carlosrox · Dec 3, 2019

I love BOTW to death and think it's an easy GOAT contender but I very much agree with this.

Definitely needs more persistent music and a better mix of atmospheric and melodic music.

Thrill_house · Dec 3, 2019

BOTW gonna need alot of things for the sequel imo. This is one of them though for sure.

Jaded Alyx · Dec 3, 2019

Christo750 said:
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the

corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru

qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.

This

Lilo_D said:
Quote this, my favourite gaming moment of this gen

and this

SuperiorTrashTalk said:
I don't know, I found it to be pretty creepy and a tonal shift. It was surreal in a way and felt really organic. It especially was built up well in the sense that I kept seeing the glow from far away and wondering what it was until I finally managed to be nearby when it happened.

and this too

base_two · Dec 3, 2019

Servbot24 said:
Imagine if only one of the dungeons in BOTW were a beast. It would have been such an incredible discovery and moment, a stand out in the entire series. But since they were repetitive, they managed to making giant walking dungeons boring somehow.

That's what they need to get away from - open world template design. Worry less about scale and more about unique scenarios with potent mood and atmosphere.

I love Breath of the Wild, but no lies detected.

Finalrush · Dec 3, 2019

Karateka said:
this kind of attempt at making moments seem original fails on me. It seems to me the only reason youd cut something down to a sidequest is because it isn't good enough to be part of the main quest, or because you don't really think it is that thematically important to the work.

Different strokes. The only "main quest" in botw is going directly to the castle, so by this logic the entire game could have been cut.

Lua · Dec 3, 2019

It's one of the many reasons i don't like botw.

Deleted member 8860 · Dec 3, 2019

The series needs more TLoZ and AoL moments, not more N64 jank.

Asbsand · Dec 3, 2019

Servbot24 said:
Imagine if only one of the dungeons in BOTW were a beast.

I could even see it working rather well. You go to a big lake, soaring over it with the glider, after placing the last of 3 mysterious thingies in pedestals or something, and a big whale appears, and you drop into its open mouth or it sucks you in.

It fades to black to hide the load screen for a few seconds and you're inside the belly of the whale.

I just think Nintendo cut their budget thin with the ambitions for BoTW and so they needed a unified visual aesthetic and array of enemies for all their dungeons, because otherwise they couldn't create both a giant open world and the richly detail Zelda experience inside it otherwise.

Instro · Dec 3, 2019

In terms of atmosphere, I'm not sure I can see Nintendo ever making games like OoT and MM again. They are filled with weird, strange, and creepy elements throughout.

Motorcycle Dork · Dec 3, 2019

I love botw's light hearted tone, but I do miss some creepy dark moments that old Zelda games had.

Not saying botw should take these elements, I am perfectly fine with how it is. I hope to see some future Zelda games to return to dark themes and have creepy enemies.

Asriel · Dec 3, 2019

Lua said:
It's one of the many reasons i don't like botw.

I agreed, and it's why I got bored of it quickly.

karmitt · Dec 3, 2019

.

Motorcycle Dork said:
I love botw's light hearted tone, but I do miss some creepy dark moments that old Zelda games had.

Not saying botw should take these elements, I am perfectly fine with how it is. I hope to see some future Zelda games to return to dark themes and have creepy enemies.

The little we've seen of BotW2 trumps anything in BotW handily. If that's the mood they want to portray a lot more of in this new world we're in for a treat.

Rotobit · Dec 3, 2019

Finding the giant frozen sky fish skeleton in that one icy cave was pretty creepy, but yeah. Most of BotW's horror/creepiness comes from implication.

I think if BotW 2 has more natural dungeons, and not super out-of-place sci fi instances, it'll have the capacity for some really creepy moments.

Phantom · Dec 3, 2019

I remember at some point docking points in game reviews for being too linear. Now I wish some games do away with open world themes, I'm pretty sick of them, BOTW included. For the most part, they're empty zones devoid of interest to me, unless you're a game like Shadow of the Colossus. I'd take another OOT with a better overworld any time over what we got.

secretanchitman · Dec 3, 2019

Asriel said:
I agreed, and it's why I got bored of it quickly.

Yep. I beat the game 100% but man it was missing a lot of why I enjoyed Zelda games in the first place. I really hope BOTW2 fixes some of the issues.

Serif · Dec 3, 2019

The Malice-infested Hyrule Castle and Akkala Citadel would have been great areas for this kind of atmosphere, unfortunately the game's enemy variety is poor and we instead have the same Boko/Moblins and LIzalfos roaming these areas. Fighting resurrected / redead Hylian soldiers or guards that are as tough as Lynels would've been awesome.

MoogleWizard · Dec 3, 2019

Ocarina and Majora's Mask do have a peculiar and melancholic atmosphere that is very appealing to me. I think Ocarina even more so because it feels like a much longer, more lonely journey. It has some really great settings like the spirit temple and the forest temple, which feel like ancient, haunted places that no one has been to in a very long time. Twilight Princess tried to recapture this atmosphere but failed completely, it was just dull. The genius of OOT and MM is that the games didn't look strange, sad or creepy, MM is a very colorful and "cute" game even, but they still managed to create those feelings. I don't see modern Nintendo make a Zelda with that feel again. I do love the more light-hearted Zelda games but I also miss the weirdness the older games had.

Yautja_Warrior · Dec 3, 2019

Really hope BOTW 2 is a bit more focused and fixes / brings back things sadly missing from past games.

Technika · Dec 3, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
The ambient music. The overall athmopshere. There's plenty to critizise BotW for, but what bugs me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game. When the epitome of that sort of stuff is a monster part merchant snapping at you once randomly and a Bloodmoon which appears over and over again, you know you kinda missed out.

Remember the most jolly Zelda under the sun? Yeah...
Warning, complete potato quality.

I hope the tone the BoTW2 teaser sets stays in the game. I hope the fact we explore caves and stuff leads to moments like the above. I hope redeads are coming back.

I love the example from Zelda OoT as well!

I remember one of the reasons Nintendo justified staying with Carts and using MIDI files allowed for games to have such dynamic music. It was difficult (or not possible on hardware that generation) to create such changeable music.

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

emag said:
The series needs more TLoZ and AoL moments, not more N64 jank.

What on earth is "janky" about the atmopshere of that crypt?

MoogleWizard said:
Ocarina and Majora's Mask do have a peculiar and melancholic atmosphere that is very appealing to me. I think Ocarina even more so because it feels like a much longer, more lonely journey. It has some really great settings like the spirit temple and the forest temple, which feel like ancient, haunted places that no one has been to in a very long time. Twilight Princess tried to recapture this atmosphere but failed completely, it was just dull. The genius of OOT and MM is that the games didn't look strange, sad or creepy, MM is a very colorful and "cute" game even, but they still managed to create those feelings. I don't see modern Nintendo make a Zelda with that feel again. I do love the more light-hearted Zelda games but I also miss the weirdness the older games had.

Don't make me sad like that lol. You're spot on with everything though. Even Wind Waker tried to have it's dark corners, even if some of those corners were obviously cut.
Like, it's not edginess I'm looking for, but the creepiness of OoT's crypts and caves, or MM's overall unique weirdness.
This is why that BoTW2 teaser was promising though. The backwards palyed music alone was already weirder than anythign in BotW.

Mory Dunz · Dec 3, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game

uh....nope

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

Mory Dunz said:
uh....nope

Uh, yes. People coming with the horse god or the corrupted dragon just need to listen to 5 seconds of the ambient music and sounds of the first video to see what I mean. BotW lacks this stuff completely, outside of the Bloodmoon happening.

lvl 99 Pixel · Dec 3, 2019

Not True, BOTW had huge tone shifts. It went from "these systems are neat" intrigue to "oh that's the entire game" melancholy.

Kuro · Dec 3, 2019

The dark forest and pretty much all of the Gerudo desert/highlands were my peak moments for the game.

The old ruin pass through the mountains to the snowy peak had a lot of potential but it was just there for show. I was hoping to find a hidden moment in that area but nothing.

There were a lot of little pockets here and there that kind of just served as a simple visual thing which felt like wasted potential which I hope the sequel addresses.

I guess OP means more horror elements though which yeah was kinda missing from the game until you reach the castle.

Calamari41 · Dec 3, 2019

Kor of Memory said:
The Pitch black forest was a good bit of suspense. Lighting the torches to find the way. Fighting the Hinox in the dark. I remember being on edge the entire time.

This was spot on for me, especially since I hadn't actually encountered a Hinox yet in my playthrough, so I had no clue what the creature with the giant eye and massive attack was that I was fighting.

It was pretty distressing and scary.

Wamb0wneD · Dec 3, 2019

lvl 99 Pixel said:
Not True, BOTW had huge tone shifts. It went from "these systems are neat" intrigue to "oh that's the entire game" melancholy.

Lol, not bad.

Kuro said:
The dark forest and pretty much all of the Gerudo desert/highlands were my peak moments for the game.

The old ruin pass through the mountains to the snowy peak had a lot of potential but it was just there for show. I was hoping to find a hidden moment in that area but nothing.

There were a lot of little pockets here and there that kind of just served as a simple visual thing which felt like wasted potential which I hope the sequel addresses.

I guess OP means more horror elements though which yeah was kinda missing from the game until you reach the castle.

Even the castle wasn't imo. It had the same visual vibe as the colosseum I found right after leaving the plateau for the first time, with the same enemies in it even. It still had this adventurous and epic feel, especially with the great music. No creepiness though, no dread, nothing of that sort.

Zelda needs more of these moments again

signature-less, now and forever

User requested account closure

Editor at Nintendo Wire

Writer at Jeux.ca

One Winged Slayer

Alt Account