• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Zuckerberg funded school curriculum sparking resistance from students, parents, & teachers

Teh_Lurv

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,098
Silicon Valley had come to small-town Kansas schools — and it was not going well.

"I want to just take my Chromebook back and tell them I'm not doing it anymore," said Kallee Forslund, 16, a 10th grader in Wellington.

Eight months earlier, public schools near Wichita had rolled out a web-based platform and curriculum from Summit Learning. The Silicon Valley-based program promotes an educational approach called "personalized learning," which uses online tools to customize education. The platform that Summit provides was developed by Facebook engineers. It is funded by Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook's chief executive, and his wife, Priscilla Chan, a pediatrician.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Then, students started coming home with headaches and hand cramps. Some said they felt more anxious. One child began having a recurrence of seizures. Another asked to bring her dad's hunting earmuffs to class to block out classmates because work was now done largely alone.

"We're allowing the computers to teach and the kids all looked like zombies," said Tyson Koenig, a factory supervisor in McPherson, who visited his son's fourth-grade class. In October, he pulled the 10-year-old out of the school.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/21/technology/silicon-valley-kansas-schools.html

As Silicon Valley tech parents are embracing a tech-free upbringing for their children, middle-America children are being using as guinea pigs (one parent interviewed likened their school's participation to that) to refine a technology driven education.

The full article is worth a read; Another point of highlight in the article is the effectiveness of the Summit program is inconclusive; Summit chose not be measured by a study it helped Harvard design.
 
Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
We're doing all sorts of fucked up things to ourselves, but especially our children, diving into the deep end without understanding the ramifications it does on a worthless unformed brain before it grows up.

We're someday going to look back at the shit kids did before we figured out how harmful it is and be aghast that it ever happened the way it did.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,143
computers and the internet are wonderful tools for learning. But they should be there to enhance not be a subsitute. Worse thing you can do to a kid is hand them a tablet provide them no context.
 
WedgeX

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,200
Surprise surprise that Facebook engineers designed this instead of teachers or ed policy folk.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
Reading the article, the teachers don't teach anymore and the kids are hammering away on a computer all day long? The fuck.

Some parents said they worried about their children's data privacy.

"Summit demands an extraordinary amount of personal information about each student and plans to track them through college and beyond," said Leonie Haimson, co-chairwoman of the Parent Coalition for Student Privacy, a national organization.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So is this the real reason this exists? To gather information on students throughout their childhood and adolescence?
 
captive

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,999
Houston
Then, students started coming home with headaches and hand cramps. Some said they felt more anxious. One child began having a recurrence of seizures. Another asked to bring her dad's hunting earmuffs to class to block out classmates because work was now done largely alone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
the fuck are they doing to the kids?



Side note: i'm so fucking tired of hearing about how silicon valley people's kids are "Tech free" who fucking cares? Like everything else in life, use some fucking moderation. There's nothing wrong with kids having access to tech for a little portion of the day. Also there is definite downsides to not letting kids play with tech.
 
Psychonaut

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,207
All tech- based assessments is fine. That makes life easier. But the course still needs guidance and planning by a real-ass person. Every program I've ever had my students use just shouts questions at them without ever explain concepts in a way they can understand.

Also, as a teacher, this strikes me as a pathway toward eliminating my job... This would be worrisome if they weren't so grossly incompetent.
 
TheMan

TheMan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,264
I don't think the heavy reliance on computers and online programming is super unique (in fact this is what some alternative schools in STL do). But, it sounds like this kind of system is new to them so of course there are going to be growing pains and haters. The bit about the kid with seizures doing worse sounds like an oversight of the program though- special needs kids will almost always need more 1:1 attention with a person rather than a screen.
 
Wojo

Wojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
457
Buffalo
This is just a small first step toward the future. Eventually all kids will have one to one AI teacher tailored specifically to their needs. Especially once AI reaches and surpasses human Intelligence.
 
WedgeX

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,200
Trojita said:
Reading the article, the teachers don't teach anymore and the kids are hammering away on a computer all day long? The fuck.



So is this the real reason this exists? To gather information on students throughout their childhood and adolescence?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I missed that when first reading through. Lord.

Also: Zuck thinks that teachers real purpose is to mentor, not to teach?
 
Jarate

Jarate

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,614
I don't inherently think this type of set up is that bad. If this was done by an entity with any ounce of credibility, I would assume that this might be people overreacting, but it sounds like these people were conned by Zuckerberg.
 
BlastProcessing

BlastProcessing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,277
QoHdE6Z.jpg
 
Forkball

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
Read this earlier and it glosses over the real issue: Kansas massively underfunds its schools, so they are looking for corporate/private alternatives. Very typical of many Republicans who cut school funding and then try to solve it by turning to the private sector. The new governor of Kansas elected last November is actually a Democrat who had education reform as a big part of her platform.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nds-schools-state-supreme-court-idUSKCN1C72M0
 
Brass Body Dave

Brass Body Dave

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
Forkball said:
Read this earlier and it glosses over the real issue: Kansas massively underfunds its schools, so they are looking for corporate/private alternatives. Very typical of many Republicans who cut school funding and then try to solve it by turning to the private sector. The new governor of Kansas elected last November is actually a Democrat who had education reform as a big part of her platform.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nds-schools-state-supreme-court-idUSKCN1C72M0
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yep. We're going to be getting hit with this in Oklahoma as well. I think we're the 50th lowest paying state to teachers. They'll desperately try to find cheap alternatives.

Just you all wait. Meth capital of the world and rampant tech emotional problems? We're gonna have some weird ass kids...
 

Deleted member 5359

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,326
Teaching is a very organic process. I'm not surprised that teaching as interpreted by a bunch of software engineers isn't getting the job done.
 
Jroc

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
This definitely sounds like a data gathering operation in disguise, but this part of the article got me:

"Then, students started coming home with headaches and hand cramps. Some said they felt more anxious. One child began having a recurrence of seizures."

This is all from being forced to type on a Chromebook? They make it sound like the kids are strapped into a Matrix-style silicon valley learning machine.
 
nel e nel

nel e nel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
Slayven said:
computers and the internet are wonderful tools for learning. But they should be there to enhance not be a subsitute. Worse thing you can do to a kid is hand them a tablet provide them no context.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Pretty much. I'm all for experimenting with new teaching methods as technology evolves, but if something is clearly not working, it's time to stop and reevaluate.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
Jroc said:
This definitely sounds like a data gathering operation in disguise, but this part of the article got me:

"Then, students started coming home with headaches and hand cramps. Some said they felt more anxious. One child began having a recurrence of seizures."

This is all from being forced to type on a Chromebook? They make it sound like the kids are strapped into a Matrix-style silicon valley learning machine.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The seizure thing is from a child that already has epilepsy. Problem is that there might not be an alternative for people with special needs. Neurologist says that the student should only be on a computer screen for 30 minutes a day, but the whole curriculum is on the computer.

The headaches and hand cramps can easily be explained from being on a computer all day long. The anxiousness can be because of how the curriculum is setup and the expectation to finish so many modules in an amount of time and respond to messages/e-mails, the latter of which effects people in the professional world now that you are expected to respond within a certain amount of time now that we have devices and communications that allow 24/7 response.
 
higemaru

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
4,104
This is what I've been saying about tech-focused education since high school. Like fuck, I barely had friends in high school and I could (and did) have told you that the purpose of school is to form social and emotional awareness and connections, not to become an information repository and task management system.
 
Calamari41

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,099
Mark Zuckerberg's signature on something intended to help my kid evokes the same subliminal impulse in my brain as bright colors on a frog or snake.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
captive said:
Side note: i'm so fucking tired of hearing about how silicon valley people's kids are "Tech free" who fucking cares?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's important to highlight that the people who produce these technologies understand or are justifiably skeptical of their risks, but feel no qualms about pushing it on other people's kids to chase that dollar.
 
jontin

jontin

User Requested Ban
Banned
Dec 29, 2017
854
Brass Body Dave said:
We're doing all sorts of fucked up things to ourselves, but especially our children, diving into the deep end without understanding the ramifications it does on a worthless unformed brain before it grows up.

We're someday going to look back at the shit kids did before we figured out how harmful it is and be aghast that it ever happened the way it did.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Spot on. It'll be like how we view lobotomies now. The last 2 decades will be the biggest "wtf" for future historians
 
Sendero

Sendero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
896
Sam Seder had a recent video about the Gates Foundation, and how their little side project to change the curriculum + education approach, was deemed a complete failure by their own analysis results.



There is such thing as having too much money, even if it's all under good intentions.


Zuckerberg's approach seems even more drastic and --almost assuredly-- business related. Greed really knows no bounds.
 
Last edited:
captive

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,999
Houston
samoyed said:
It's important to highlight that the people who produce these technologies understand or are justifiably skeptical of their risks, but feel no qualms about pushing it on other people's kids to chase that dollar.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) thanks for cutting off the rest of my post which was entirely relevant to the part that you quoted
2) thats not the point i was making. What you see all the time is headlines "steve jobs didnt let his kids have iphones, should you?" or "silicon valley tech free parents, why you should be worried" or some other bullshit.

there is nothing inherently wrong with letting kids have access to technology. Unfettered, un-monitored and un-timed access are the problems.
 
haziq

haziq

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,657
Everything Facebook invests in always turn out to be trojan horses for Zuck the Fuck to gather even more private data to sell to other corporations & nefarious ad groups.

Like... Facebook is the worst thing to happen to us, and we haven't even fully realized the scope of it yet.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
captive said:
1) thanks for cutting off the rest of my post which was entirely relevant to the part that you quoted
2) thats not the point i was making. What you see all the time is headlines "steve jobs didnt let his kids have iphones, should you?" or "silicon valley tech free parents, why you should be worried" or some other bullshit.

there is nothing inherently wrong with letting kids have access to technology. Unfettered, un-monitored and un-timed access are the problems.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No one sells articles based on appeals to moderation. Hyperbolic headlines get the click.

When was the last time we had a fad diet based on moderation instead of, say, cutting one or more food groups out of your diet entirely or going on fasts (aka voluntary starvation)?
 
Thugnificent

Thugnificent

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
618
I hate Summit Learning. They had me use it for a couple of the history classes I taught last year. Pretty much every student hated it. I came later into the school year so I had to attend a national training/meetup in the middle of the year. Every teacher there praised Summit but I think the reasoning was that they felt proud that their school was picked to implement the standard. That and they all had a chip on their shoulder and wanted to one up each other.

I ended up just using and modifying a lot of the material and teaching it to them outright so at least I could tell the school I was following the curriculum. I told fellow teachers at the training about modifying the lessons but a bunch told me it wouldn't work and I needed to follow the curriculum exactly as planned. I mean I guess it's easier work for the teacher in the end when you don't really have to lesson plan...
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Thugnificent said:
Every teacher there praised Summit but I think the reasoning was that they felt proud that their school was picked to implement the standard. That and they all had a chip on their shoulder and wanted to one up each other.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think this effect drove adoption of SmartBoards back in the 00s as well.

Remember these things?

shutterstock_528252127.jpg


While I'm all in favor of technological innovation in education, there's a real problem with companies trying to push their latest gadget/software without regard for whether or not it's actually helpful and without consulting people in education policy. Rather, they treat it like a business pitch and it gets received like one and if/when it fails, the people holding the loss are the teachers, students and public (when these things are tax funded).
 
golem

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Much as I like jumping in on Zuck hate fests, after reading the article it sounds like this is more a problem with parents not understanding the teaching method and schools being generally underfunded than the program itself. Certainly tech focused solutions aren't always good solutions to problems but with a program used by 70,000+ students there were bound to be some hiccups.

This quote stands out to me
"We're not Catholic," Mrs. Koenig said. "But we just felt like it would be a lot easier to have a discussion over dinner about something that they might have heard in a religion class than Summit."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Like what? I doubt Summit is trying to teach students how to write Assembly or anything..
 
mullfuchs

mullfuchs

Member
Jan 29, 2019
96
For a background: Kansas schools were gutted by the Brownback administration, so they have basically zero money for teachers and facilities. Now silicon valley has swooped in and...done this bullshit.

KS GOP probably likes it this way, here's a private company coming in to do something that should be publicly funded, and they don't need to pay teachers anymore or update buildings. They also get to pretend they're being techy.

like a lot of things these days, this feels really dystopian. This hits close to home for me because I grew up in Kansas and remember the schools being fucking terrible, I can't imagine how bad they are now, especially in rural districts where there's basically no outside money coming in.
 
Zornica

Zornica

Alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
221
Trojita said:
Reading the article, the teachers don't teach anymore and the kids are hammering away on a computer all day long? The fuck.



So is this the real reason this exists? To gather information on students throughout their childhood and adolescence?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

why am I not surprised?
granted, SV is basically a one-trick pony. Either they "reinvent the wheel" by privatizing public good or infringe on everyones privacy. I't always one of these - or both.
 
samoyed

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Zoe said:
While it's suspect, there's no other way to track the long-term effects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It is definitely the standard in education research which often tracks children through their school years.

That said I have no faith in a Zuckerberg initiative to do this while remaining above the board.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.