Zwei: The Arges Adventure |OT| A Pun a Day Keeps the Demon Lord Away (feat. Adol from the Ys series)

wyrdwad · Jan 24, 2018

I like the original soundtrack a little better overall, but there are definitely tracks that are almost unquestionably better in the arranged version. And for me, at least, the final battle theme is one such track.

I know at least one person, however, who VERY STRONGLY disagrees with me. For her, the final battle theme is unlistenably awful in its arranged version due to the inclusion of an accordion backing section that isn't present in the original version (which I love, but which she says completely ruins the song). So YMMV!

...Fortunately, Zwei:AA has New Game+, and there are definitely some bonuses to be had by playing through it in New Game+, so you can always just experience it once with the original, then again with the arranged! ;)

-Tom

Magyscar · Jan 24, 2018

This game is absolutely gorgeous. Loving just looking at the environments.

Crazy as well since I think the game is running at a fairly low resolution. Playing on my 4k TV and it looks great despite that.

NexasX · Jan 24, 2018

The XSEED reveal stream convinced me to give this a go because of this jolly tune at the beginning:

Pasokon Deacon · Jan 25, 2018

I'm making my way towards the first boss after getting the earliest dungeon floors done and over with. The game's a lot more enjoyable now that I'm not wrangling with control issues. Those reviewers criticize the controls, but they honestly don't know how much worse it could get.

On that note, I've updated the Q&A sections, added the launch trailer, and will get quotes from the development blogs tomorrow.

Magyscar said:
Crazy as well since I think the game is running at a fairly low resolution. Playing on my 4k TV and it looks great despite that.

Somehow it looks great on my HD monitor, too. Maybe GSync would make the 30 FPS more apparent and less pleasant, but this artstyle manages to outsmart a dated resolution by virtue of lacking pixelization and focusing on really clear lines and coloring. The same background artist also did some work for Monarch Monarch, so they might have been working on this game's art since 1997 or 1998.

Eila · Jan 25, 2018

So what is the preferred control method? For Xanadu Next and surprisingly the Trails games mouse and keyboard works great.
I noticed how jerky movement was with the gamepad, but you can get used to it, I guess.

wyrdwad · Jan 25, 2018

Eila said:
So what is the preferred control method? For Xanadu Next and surprisingly the Trails games mouse and keyboard works great.
I noticed how jerky movement was with the gamepad, but you can get used to it, I guess.

The game was definitely designed with mouse and keyboard in mind, and we only added to that by including WASD and mouse wheel support, along with the addition of several other shortcut keys.

However, we also added a great deal of gamepad support. Like, a TON of it.

So really... you're good either way. Whichever control method you choose, you should find playing the game to be fairly comfortable, if not intuitive. (And really, it's not like you have to select one or the other: all controller, mouse, and keyboard input is accepted at all times, so just start the game with a controller plugged in, and you can test every possible control method to determine which works best for you!)

-Tom

Magyscar · Jan 25, 2018

Controller seems fine to me, kinda surprised it works as well as it does. The movement feels a tad sensitive but I don't think there's much to be done outside of lowering the movement speed.

Pasokon Deacon · Jan 25, 2018

Now the blog quotes are up, plus some edits. I'm really butting heads against the 30k-characters-per-post limit now, but feel free to offer suggestions for the OT.

Since I'm in the mood, it's time for a couple more music examples:

One day we'll learn who arranged the SAV tracks, whether or not they were part of Sound Team jdk.

TeenageFBI · Jan 25, 2018

I have to buy this, right?

mclem · Jan 25, 2018

wyrdwad said:
I know at least one person, however, who VERY STRONGLY disagrees with me. For her, the final battle theme is unlistenably awful in its arranged version due to the inclusion of an accordion backing section that isn't present in the original version (which I love, but which she says completely ruins the song). So YMMV!

Zafir · Jan 25, 2018

Magyscar said:
Controller seems fine to me, kinda surprised it works as well as it does. The movement feels a tad sensitive but I don't think there's much to be done outside of lowering the movement speed.

Yeah I played a bit on controller yesterday and it felt fine really.

Much better than what I remember of trying Xanadu Next with a controller, I remember that game felt kind of awkward on a controller in some situations.

Tizoc · Jan 25, 2018

It's 2 AM as I type this but any tips I should take note of before going into the first dungeon area? Like are there items in the town I can pick up?

Magyscar · Jan 25, 2018

Tizoc said:
It's 2 AM as I type this but any tips I should take note of before going into the first dungeon area? Like are there items in the town I can pick up?

There's some books you can get from talking to people. Item Dictionary, Character Notebook, Score Book and Monster Dictionary.

wyrdwad · Jan 25, 2018

There's also a hidden pair of boots in town, though they're not very GOOD boots. But they're there, if you want them! ;)

Two other hidden items in town, too, that you can use to rename your characters or your pet, respectively. Optional, but there if you need them (and if you find both of them + the pair of boots, there IS an achievement for that!).

As for tips relating to the first dungeon area... I'd say, respect caution signs. When you see a caution sign, always consider that it is there for a reason -- so proceed with extreme caution! There's definitely a death trap in the first dungeon just awaiting those who deign to proceed without heeding the warning they're given. ;)

-Tom

Pasokon Deacon · Jan 25, 2018

So now I've gotten to the Wind magic orb. I'll make my way to the Kenopi boss several hours from now, but here's some of my early screenshots thus far.

Re: some criticisms I've read of this game's game loop: flow of combat's so much better in this version. I just did a dungeon floor in Caiaphas Woods (right before getting the Wind magic) where you have to run against changing currents while weaving around a horde of tougher enemies throwing bullet hell at me. As long as you use healing items correctly (weakest first, best last) and keep an eye on your health/critical gauge, the combat's certainly decent and the dungeon designs are good enough to keep up the pace. I sort of understand criticisms of the game loop, but they don't match my experience (though Zwei: II definitely improved in terms of polish and attack variety).

This game's pretty heavy on the minimap because of the zoom-in. I'd say that's one of two big problems with dungeon crawling in this game, the other being a lack of feedback from attacks and before you die. But the dismissive attitude I've read towards how this game plays once you're past the earliest floors seems harsh. It all plays at least decent if you work ahead by getting optimal equipment and upgrades.

Namyu · Jan 25, 2018

wyrdwad said:
Just a quick FYI: as some of you Steam users have no doubt already noticed, the little "-10%" indicator that usually shows up when a game is on sale is missing from this game at the moment, but despite its absence, the 10% launch day discount WILL still be applied at checkout. We've contacted Valve about this, and it will hopefully be resolved soon, but in the meantime, please do not be alarmed: you will indeed save two bucks if you buy right now! ;)

-Tom

Nice to see you on here Tom, read through a bunch of the XSEED dev blogs on Tumblr a couple days ago. Will be picking up both this and Zwei 2 though my only other Falcom experience is Trails

wyrdwad · Jan 25, 2018

Pasokon Deacon: Thank you for that! I've been a little surprised by the low scores on some of the reviews thus far, as while I know I'm certainly biased, I didn't think I was THAT biased! ;) I genuinely have a fun time playing this game, and while I'll agree the actual gameplay and dungeon design is improved in Ilvard Insurrection, I find the two games far more alike than they are different when it comes to overall enjoyment and game flow.

It's good to hear I'm not the only one. Especially since we want this game to sell well and revitalize the Zwei franchise! (That last part might be a pipe dream, but hey, ain't nothin' wrong with dreamin' a little!) ;)

On an only tangentially related note, Inexpensive Gamer played Zwei: The Arges Adventure for nearly 4 hours yesterday evening, and interviewed me and Nick via Skype call for two and a half of those hours -- and he seemed to really enjoy the game, which was great to see! If anyone's interested in checking out the archived footage of that stream, you can watch it here:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/222036972

Cool guy. Lots of fun to talk to, and his reactions to my puns never got old. ;)

Namyu: Good to be here! Hope you have a lot of fun with Zwei!

-Tom

Mivey · Jan 25, 2018

Still on Level 3, and I think I'm starting to get an idea of the gameplay loop. I could see this game getting super dungeon grindy later on, but with the great music and simple controls, I could see myself playing this on the side and coming back it occasionally. I really love the writing (and therefor translation) on this game.

Rei dos Vermes · Jan 25, 2018

Nice art-style and gameplay seems to be fun. My only gripe with Xseed's PC ports is the blurry low-resolution interfaces. Can't they hire an artist to redraw the UI elements and fonts?

wyrdwad · Jan 25, 2018

Rei dos Vermes said:
Nice art-style and gameplay seems to be fun. My only gripe with Xseed's PC ports is the blurry low-resolution interfaces. Can't they hire an artist to redraw the UI elements and fonts?

Er, not when the game's resolution is limited to 854x480 we can't. ;) I know you're talking in general (and I'd be interested to know which other games you're referring to, though I have a few guesses!), but in this particular case, the fact that this is a game from 2001 pieced together with spaghetti code meant that we were severely limited in what we could do. So the game maxes out at 854x480 resolution, with fullscreen mode just stretching that to fit.

Not ideal, I know, but ask anyone who's attempted to work on this game's code before, and they'll tell you: up-rezzing is just... not feasible with this game. It is what it is, and fortunately for us, its art style ensures that it looks great even in HD, low resolution or no.

-Tom

Deleted member 11413 · Jan 25, 2018

Bought the game, but I haven't finished Zweii 2 yet so I'm not sure when I'll get around to playing it. Wanted to support bringing old Falcom games west though!

Rei dos Vermes · Jan 25, 2018

wyrdwad said:
Er, not when the game's resolution is limited to 854x480 we can't. ;) I know you're talking in general (and I'd be interested to know which other games you're referring to, though I have a few guesses!), but in this particular case, the fact that this is a game from 2001 pieced together with spaghetti code meant that we were severely limited in what we could do. So the game maxes out at 854x480 resolution, with fullscreen mode just stretching that to fit.

Not ideal, I know, but ask anyone who's attempted to work on this game's code before, and they'll tell you: up-rezzing is just... not feasible with this game. It is what it is, and fortunately for us, its art style ensures that it looks great even in HD, low resolution or no.

-Tom

Yep, it must be a nightmare to work on such old game. But I was referring mostly to early/mid-2000s PC games by Falcom. The UI in Ys Seven looks even worse due to Hqx scaling.

BTW, sorry for derailing the thread.

Rogote · Jan 25, 2018

Bought it. Will get to it in a couple of days! Looks charming as hell. This is one of those cases where I disregard any reviews purely because everything I've seen of it aligns with my tastes.

Pasokon Deacon · Jan 25, 2018

It seems I'm on track to fight the boss at Pavel Gardens next. Undine Land was funny as hell (and a bit sad also), but Gnome's Protectorate is the coolest sprite village to revisit overall. I'll have to play some minigames before getting back into action.

wyrdwad · Jan 26, 2018

Pasokon Deacon said:
It seems I'm on track to fight the boss at Pavel Gardens next. Undine Land was funny as hell (and a bit sad also), but Gnome's Protectorate is the coolest sprite village to revisit overall. I'll have to play some minigames before getting back into action.

Those two are really the only sprite villages you WILL revisit. The Sylvan Woods are cool, but there's not much reason to go back there once you've completed the quest for the key. And the same is true of Salamander's Den, but that one is particularly sparse, as barely anyone lives there -- it almost seems wrong to even call it a village, since it's literally just one family with two kids, and that's it! Those kids really must get awfully bored. ;)

-Tom

Tizoc · Jan 26, 2018

How do I save in this game again?

Ascheroth · Jan 26, 2018

Tizoc said:
How do I save in this game again?

Go to your home and talk to the character you don't control.

Tizoc · Jan 26, 2018

Ascheroth said:
Go to your home and talk to the character you don't control.

Thanks.

One more thing, uh where can I find the water key cuz atm I don't know where to go after the first Lvl. 1 dungeon...

wyrdwad · Jan 26, 2018

You can also save by interacting with those tables you'll find in dungeons, with the red tablecloth and umbrella.

As for where to find the water key... it's not something you're going to be finding anytime soon. The thing with Zwei is, it's almost kind of nonlinear (I guess "spread out" would more be the term). There are a lot of passages that you won't be able to go down for a long time, forcing you to just turn back and go into a different dungeon for a bit.

In other words, don't get too hung up on one goal, because chances are, that one goal isn't what you're supposed to be doing next. Explore the world, and check around every corner, and you should always be able to find SOMETHING to do or SOMEWHERE to go.

One way to tell whether or not you're probably on the right track is to check the level plates outside dungeon floors. If you enter a new dungeon at level 3, for example, and you're seeing dungeon plates that say "level 11" and "level 12," chances are you should probably turn back for the moment -- there will be level plates in some other dungeon somewhere that say "level 3" or "level 4," indicating that that's probably where you're expected to go next.

-Tom

Knurek · Jan 26, 2018

wyrdwad Any particular reason you used lossless WAVs for the arrange soundtrack while keeping the original one encoded in a lossy 4bit ADPCM Falcom format?
Looking at the music rip from the original Japanese version of the game, it had the original music provided as lossless WAVs as well as the lossy ADPCM versions. Any particular reason you chose to include only the worse one?

wyrdwad · Jan 26, 2018

Knurek said:
wyrdwad Any particular reason you used lossless WAVs for the arrange soundtrack while keeping the original one encoded in a lossy 4bit ADPCM Falcom format?
Looking at the music rip from the original Japanese version of the game, it had the original music provided as lossless WAVs as well as the lossy ADPCM versions. Any particular reason you chose to include only the worse one?

I didn't even know, TBH! The arranged soundtrack is lossless because we added it to the game, and we used Falcom's own master WAVs when doing so. I had just assumed the original tracks were in the same format, as they sound just as good to me as the arranged ones do. Never thought to question it.

I'll ask Matt about this, though, as he's going to be looking into the original music tracks anyway -- Mac users have reported that when playing the game through Wine, the original tracks don't play at all, whereas the arranged tracks play just fine. I guess this might explain why!

-Tom

Chacranajxy · Jan 27, 2018

Is there any way to force exclusive fullscreen? I'm stuck on Windows 10 1709, which basically breaks borderless windowed games and makes them stutter constantly. Zwei is literally unplayable.

wyrdwad · Jan 28, 2018

Chacranajxy said:
Is there any way to force exclusive fullscreen? I'm stuck on Windows 10 1709, which basically breaks borderless windowed games and makes them stutter constantly. Zwei is literally unplayable.

I'm... not sure what you're asking? If you're just asking about playing in fullscreen, there's a toggle for that in the options menu that you can access right from the title screen, or you can just hit Alt+Enter at any time during gameplay (including in the middle of cutscenes or movies).

I don't quite understand your issue, though, since... this game isn't borderless when windowed? But hopefully, that's all you needed to know.

-Tom

Knurek · Jan 28, 2018

wyrdwad said:
I'm... not sure what you're asking? If you're just asking about playing in fullscreen, there's a toggle for that in the options menu that you can access right from the title screen, or you can just hit Alt+Enter at any time during gameplay (including in the middle of cutscenes or movies).

I don't quite understand your issue, though, since... this game isn't borderless when windowed? But hopefully, that's all you needed to know.

-Tom

There's a difference between borderless fullscreen (which is just a window stretched to fill the screen) and exclusive fullscreen.

Knurek · Jan 28, 2018

That being said, I don't see any framepacing issues during the game. It's choppy while scrolling, sure, but that's more due being locked to 30 fps (and me being spoiled by silky smooth CS1). Framepacing graph is smooth, locked to 30.3 fps except for the movies (15 fps).
The game doesn't support G-Sync, that's one thing. I'll ask Kaldaien what could be the cause, I'm guessing the amount of render buffer game uses might be the cause (not even double buffer if I'm reading correctly).

Anyways, since it's been upgraded to DX9, you can inject ReShade and apply some CRT filters for that authentic PC monitor circa 2001 experience:
Sonic Mania CRT filter:

Nvidia's Lottes CRT filter:

wyrdwad · Jan 28, 2018

Knurek said:
There's a difference between borderless fullscreen (which is just a window stretched to fill the screen) and exclusive fullscreen.

He didn't say "borderless fullscreen," though, he said "borderless windowed." And AFAIK, the game does indeed run in exclusive fullscreen when fullscreen mode is toggled. Which is the source of my confusion...

-Tom

dedacc · Jan 28, 2018

Zafir said:
Much better than what I remember of trying Xanadu Next with a controller, I remember that game felt kind of awkward on a controller in some situations.

I played that with M/K controls from the get-go. Wasn't even able to properly input my name because the cursor was going way too fast.

Dabbled a bit with Arges Adventure yesterday, but I'll probably just reload my save from before going to the first dungeon. Falcom's games taught me to be super anal about my saving habits because you can so easily miss stuff.

Knurek · Jan 28, 2018

wyrdwad said:
He didn't say "borderless fullscreen," though, he said "borderless windowed." And AFAIK, the game does indeed run in exclusive fullscreen when fullscreen mode is toggled. Which is the source of my confusion...

Not sure how it works on other systems, but on my Win10 1709 machine, it certainly doesn't trigger exclusive fullscreen.

wyrdwad · Jan 28, 2018

AnGer-dono said:
Dabbled a bit with Arges Adventure yesterday, but I'll probably just reload my save from before going to the first dungeon. Falcom's games taught me to be super anal about my saving habits because you can so easily miss stuff.

The thing about Zwei is, there's not really any such thing as a "first dungeon." The game is somewhat nonlinear, in that you kind of tackle all four of the available starter dungeons at once, and aren't really required to go through any of them in a specific order.

Additionally, you can re-challenge dungeons as much as you want.

So you're probably better off keeping your save data, and just playing through the dungeon floor a second time on it -- you'll get more food that way than if you were to reload and redo it.

EDIT: Also, you're right: the game does use borderless fullscreen! I had absolutely no idea. I'm not sure if that can be changed, but I would assume not, or else it would be in already. I'll check with Matt, though!

-Tom

dedacc · Jan 28, 2018

wyrdwad said:
So you're probably better off keeping your save data, and just playing through the dungeon floor a second time on it -- you'll get more food that way than if you were to reload and redo it.

Yeah, but I haven't even found all the hidden stuff in the village yet. The item book still eludes me and for some reason, the character book comes up blank - or with the first info missing - for the people in town. Or does the order in which the information bits are received not matter and I can get character info any time?

Magyscar · Jan 28, 2018

AnGer-dono said:
Yeah, but I haven't even found all the hidden stuff in the village yet. The item book still eludes me and for some reason, the character book comes up blank - or with the first info missing - for the people in town. Or does the order in which the information bits are received not matter and I can get character info any time?

I couldn't get the item book until after I beat the first boss I think. Apparently you can get it earlier but the NPC just wouldn't hand it over until then for me.

SatelliteOfLove · Jan 28, 2018

This game is so damn PRETTY. Rain done so damn good.

wyrdwad · Jan 28, 2018

AnGer-dono said:
Yeah, but I haven't even found all the hidden stuff in the village yet. The item book still eludes me and for some reason, the character book comes up blank - or with the first info missing - for the people in town. Or does the order in which the information bits are received not matter and I can get character info any time?

The three facts for each character are indeed timed, so it IS possible to miss those. You may have already missed one or more, however, from the very beginning of the game, before the stealing of the idols even occurred. It's hard to say without consulting a walkthrough, however, as the unlocks don't necessarily occur in order, and facts aren't necessarily filled in when you first meet characters -- often, you'll go through most of the game without any facts listed for some characters at all!

If it helps, though, plot advancement in the game is based almost exclusively around the recovery of the idols, which -- as you might imagine -- is based on defeating bosses. So until you defeat a boss, the dialogue spoken by all the villagers throughout the game will not change (save for side-quests, which will play out before returning the dialogue back to its default for that point in time), meaning you can conquer dungeon floors and trigger in-dungeon events all you want without risking missing important NPC events for the character notebook. The only time you'll want to make sure you've gone around and spoken to absolutely everyone is before you fight a boss battle.

The exception to this is the little kid who lost his fishing lure, and you may want to make certain you return his lure to him BEFORE you defeat your first boss, since his dialogue won't revert to "general NPC banter" until he gets his lure back. Essentially, he begins the game already on a side quest, and until you break him out of it, he won't say any of his regular NPC lines.

As for the item book, you should be able to get it pretty much right away (or at least, after the game's initial cutscenes). Make sure to go behind the counters of shops to talk to the shopkeepers, as they have separate dialogue for regular conversation when you do (as opposed to their shop dialogue when you interact with them from across the counter).

-Tom

Knurek · Jan 28, 2018

wyrdwad said:
EDIT: Also, you're right: the game does use borderless fullscreen! I had absolutely no idea. I'm not sure if that can be changed, but I would assume not, or else it would be in already. I'll check with Matt, though!
-Tom

According to Kaldaien, that's whats keeping the game from supporting GSync. Would be nice if you managed to fix it. :)

dedacc · Jan 29, 2018

wyrdwad , thanks for the help. As far as "losing saves" go, I'm not concerned, I make a separate save before every event just in case I might miss something that I'll be locked out from at a later point. My last run of Trails in the Sky had me set up 300+ separate saves. xD

Ascheroth · Jan 29, 2018

Where do you find the fishing lure for the boy?

Pasokon Deacon · Jan 29, 2018

Ascheroth said:
Where do you find the fishing lure for the boy?

It's at the end of a long vertical passage on the first floor of the Fairy Passage in Caiaphas Woods.

Today I'll tackle the final boss and some remaining side-content. I just beat the last of the dragons while underleveled. That fight could have sucked since it took forever to wear it down with my current stat pool (the floor plate for the Klaproth dungeon says "31" for a reason), but I had no trouble doing the dungeon floors at level 25. The boss itself is my second-favorite in the game due to having a more logical pattern and vulnerability to well-times Double Play charges than others.

Ascheroth · Jan 29, 2018

Pasokon Deacon said:
It's at the end of a long vertical passage on the first floor of the Fairy Passage in Caiaphas Woods.

Ah, that's why I haven't found it yet, hadn't been there yet. Thanks!

Chacranajxy · Jan 30, 2018

Knurek said:
There's a difference between borderless fullscreen (which is just a window stretched to fill the screen) and exclusive fullscreen.

Crisis averted on that front, though -- there's a fix that alleviates the stuttering issue on the newest version of Windows 10.

So, I might dive into the game tomorrow.

Knurek · Jan 30, 2018

Chacranajxy said:
Crisis averted on that front, though -- there's a fix that alleviates the stuttering issue on the newest version of Windows 10.

So, I might dive into the game tomorrow.

Do tell. Windows update, newest nvidia driver or a 3rd party tool?

Zwei: The Arges Adventure |OT| A Pun a Day Keeps the Demon Lord Away (feat. Adol from the Ys series)

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