BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,428
The_Count_of_Monte_Cristo_film.jpg
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Not sure anyone cares, but I finished both a couple weeks ago but was banned and couldn't do my LTTP. Well, I remembered now so might as well do it. To start with, the film fucking sucks. Avoid that shit, it misses the entire purpose of the book while changing nearly everything to tell a cheap revenge tale. It also starts crazy ass Jim "Jesus" Caviezel. The only good thing was seeing a young Henry Cavill show up out of nowhere. Look, it's baby Superman!

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Okay, so the book. HOLY HELL, what a LONG fucking book. A goddamn tome. 1276 pages! And I can confidently say that the book did NOT need to be that long. However, I understand how that it was published in 18 parts in a French Newspaper so Dumat had a vested interest in padding that shit out as much as possible to earn more money. Now having said that, the book is pretty darn good when it doesn't meander for three chapters to follow some pointless side character. The prose itself is so goddamn good, with so many wonderful lines. And, as with most really old novels, it provides a wonderful insight into the thinking of society and the author at that time.

Plot Summary:
To set the stage, our titular character Edmond Dantes is just a wee sailor aboard a merchant ship at the start of the novel, prepared to marry his sweetheart Mercedes. Due to his good nature and loyalty, he is selected to be the ship's next Captain by the owner, passing over his rival Danglars. However, Dantes also has another unknown rival in that of Ferdianand, childhood friend to Mercedes who is madly in love with her and curses Dantes for "stealing" her away. Well, Danglers, Ferdinand, and other unknown enemies to this young nobody work their forces to have Dantes arrested on charges of being a Bonaparte supporter, resulting in his imprisonment on Château d'If (Marseille) (Americans think Alcatraz island). Where he proceeds to rot out of sight for 14 years before managing to escape and put in place a plan for justice.

Discussion: Without going on too long or spoiling, I was intrigued by the fact that this wasn't some rote revenge tale. Which is funny considering how the film bastardizes it into, Dantes' plan is far more clever and patient. Almost too patient. The man takes "revenge is a dish best served cold" to a whole other level. But as alluded to earlier, it is also a fascinating exploration on the concept of nobility, French society, and the existence of Providence/Justice in the world. The Late 19th Century was a time when the previous order of nobility was crumbling and the book certainly shares these same sensibilities, along with the emergence of capitalism. It's also got some wonderfully funny ideas about science and medicine of the time, along with recreational drug use. You gotta try mixing heroin and marijuana together some time. Shit is a cure all.

That said, I routinely found myself howling by the fact that no one can seem to recognize Dantes because he simply changes outfits and calls himself a different name. "Count of Monte Cristo? Who is he? I am Mr. Thompson." Be prepared for this for a lot of the novel.

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I did, however, find the ending to be kind of a let down as it seemed hampered by societal expectations and rules at that time as opposed to what was right for the character.

The only reason Monte Cristo doesn't end up getting back with and marrying Mercedes is because she had previously married and had a son with Ferdinand. And thus, she would have likely be seen as "tainted" by readers at that time. So, naturally, Monte Cristo gets to be with the hot, super YOUNG Greek woman who he basically treated like a daughter. Nice. 😏.

Ewww, he should have just married Mercedes.
 

DarthMasta

Member
Feb 17, 2018
4,258
Dumas. First serious writer I remember ever reading.

You might also enjoy the Three Musketeers.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,020
One of my favorite books, read it every few years. The 2002 film is well cast and is pretty good up until Dantes escapes prison. Then it just goes horribly wrong. Albert being his son just killed any enjoyment of the movie I had.

One adaptation I enjoyed was the anime, Gankutsuou

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It's very faithful to the book despite being set in a sci-fi future, and the story is mostly from Albert's point of view.

The only reason Monte Cristo doesn't end up getting back with and marrying Mercedes is because she had previously married and had a son with Ferdinand. And thus, she would have likely be seen as "tainted" by readers at that time. So, naturally, Monte Cristo gets to be with the hot, super YOUNG Greek woman who he basically treated like a daughter. Nice. 😏.

Ewww, he should have just married Mercedes.

Agree with the first part being gross and weird, but also think it was appropriate for him not to get back with Mercedes.
 

stn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,704
I loved both (yes, the movie could have been a bit different but I still loved it). The book is probably my second favorite of all time after Great Expectations.
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
15,247
One of my favorite books, read it every few years. The 2002 film is well cast and is pretty good up until Dantes escapes prison. Then it just goes horribly wrong. Albert being his son just killed any enjoyment of the movie I had.

One adaptation I enjoyed was the anime, Gankutsuou

s9KPRcI.jpg


It's very faithful to the book despite being set in a sci-fi future, and the story is mostly from Albert's point of view.



Agree with the first part being gross and weird, but also think it was appropriate for him not to get back with Mercedes.

Ayyyyyyye I came into this thread to give the anime suggestion. What a stylish take! Banger of an ending song too!
 

Laughton

Member
Apr 19, 2022
1,213
If you want to see the best adaptation of the book look up the French mini-series starring Gerard Depardieu.
 

Rei no Otaku

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,408
Cranston RI
One of my favorite books, read it every few years. The 2002 film is well cast and is pretty good up until Dantes escapes prison. Then it just goes horribly wrong. Albert being his son just killed any enjoyment of the movie I had.

One adaptation I enjoyed was the anime, Gankutsuou

s9KPRcI.jpg


It's very faithful to the book despite being set in a sci-fi future, and the story is mostly from Albert's point of view.



Agree with the first part being gross and weird, but also think it was appropriate for him not to get back with Mercedes.
Yup, go watch Gankutsuou. A fantastic take on the story.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,428
One of my favorite books, read it every few years. The 2002 film is well cast and is pretty good up until Dantes escapes prison. Then it just goes horribly wrong. Albert being his son just killed any enjoyment of the movie I had.

One adaptation I enjoyed was the anime, Gankutsuou

s9KPRcI.jpg


It's very faithful to the book despite being set in a sci-fi future, and the story is mostly from Albert's point of view.

I've recently heard of this and might check it out, but am concerned about the setting change because I find the class politics a huge draw for the novel. Is that same complexity present in this anime adaptation?
 

KyouG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
456
Great thread, OP. I'm currently reading through it as well; my French is rusty but it's been a fun read so far. Only at chapter 72, but I'm looking forward to checking out the spoilers once I'm finished.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,428

Good to hear then, might check it out.

No, my name is Lord Wilmore... I'm a posh English man, who just happens to have a friend called Sinbad. 🧐

Ah yes, I met that eccentric Sindbad once in a wild haze of hashish. Wonderful chap. My mistake though, well I'm off to see the Count of Monte Cristo. Adieu.

Loved the book - that summer ball scene was just </3 ;_;

I was so glad that Mercedes knew exactly who he was the whole time because that would've strained my credulity. It makes that scene even better.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,796
Greater Vancouver
I remember loving the movie as a kid (though the ending always felt antithetical to the point). Reading the book and realizing how much gets cut out and fundamentally can't be translated without the time was a big moment.

A good miniseries would do this well.
 

m_shortpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,649
I had to read this over the summer between 8th and 9th grade for honors English Lit.

Definitely a great book, although my enjoyment at the time was hampered by the homework they had assigned over the summer on it.
 

Ramako

Member
Jan 1, 2018
1,045
Canada
It's been so long since I read the book that I can't remember some of the specific plot points, but I do remember the ending seeming unsatisfying.

Side note - Mozart's Requiem is an excellent audio pairing for this book.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,921
I really enjoyed both the book and the film. The film really makes the story arc so deeply satisfying. And it's another great performance by the late Richard Harris.
 

PoeticProse22

Member
Oct 25, 2017
842
My absolute favorite novel. I've read the unabridged version a dozen or so times and I'm ensnared from the very first page every single time. I'm still waiting for a definitive adaptation, since none of them have satisfyingly captured the expansive thematic complexity from the novel.

One of my favorite books, read it every few years. The 2002 film is well cast and is pretty good up until Dantes escapes prison. Then it just goes horribly wrong. Albert being his son just killed any enjoyment of the movie I had.

One adaptation I enjoyed was the anime, Gankutsuou

s9KPRcI.jpg


It's very faithful to the book despite being set in a sci-fi future, and the story is mostly from Albert's point of view.

I'll echo the praise for Gankutsuou (my avatar says as much). While its narrative beats can be pretty divergent from the source material, it's the best and most faithful adaptation all the same. The French adaptation is fairly good, but frustratingly lacking in several regards. Depardieu, for one, never rang true to me in the role. Even though the 2002 film was an appalling adaptation, I quite love it. A wonderfully villainous Guy Pearce, Richard Harris and Dagmara Dominczyk with terrific portrayals of Abbe Faria and Mercedes, gorgeous cinematography, and a sublime score go a long way in excusing its numerous flaws.
 

Bricks

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 6, 2017
640
Okay, so the book. HOLY HELL, what a LONG fucking book. A goddamn tome. 1276 pages! And I can confidently say that the book did NOT need to be that long. However, I understand how that it was published in 18 parts in a French Newspaper so Dumat had a vested interest in padding that shit out as much as possible to earn more money.

Yeah, Dumas was paid by line written, so... I actually have an edition with a preface by Umberto Eco, and he basically says "this is one of the most gripping, thrilling books ever written, but also one of the worst written books of all time and all literature". He loves it nonetheless.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
I was more or less ok with the pacing in the unabridged version. That is, until Dantès gets to Rome. Then parts of the book start to feel really padded.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,428
Yeah, Dumas was paid by line written, so... I actually have an edition with a preface by Umberto Eco, and he basically says "this is one of the most gripping, thrilling books ever written, but also one of the worst written books of all time and all literature". He loves it nonetheless.

I echo that quote. Hahaha.

I was more or less ok with the pacing in the unabridged version. That is, until Dantès gets to Rome. Then parts of the book start to feel really padded.

I didn't mind Rome portion too much because I saw it for what it was, 19th Century European Travel Vlog. Same reason James Bond always travels to exotic locations.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,938
It is still one of my all time favorite novels. I don't usually enjoy revenge stories, but something about Edmond and his journey just works in a way that imitators just don't. The movie is enjoyable enough, but as is a dreadful adaptation.
 

ForKevdo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,124
It's my go-to choice when people ask me what my favorite book is. There definitely is a lot of meandering, but when everything comes together, goddamn

Echoing the sentiment that you should read The Three Musketeers. Another fantastic book.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,291
A book that is absolutely crying out for a 10-part HBO mini series. I'm sure it would be a really expensive adaptation but man it could be wonderful if done right.

One of the most entertaining works of literature ever.
 

Luap

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,068
One of my favorite novels and audiobooks. It's nearly 50 hours long and I could re-listen every year.
 

Bricks

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 6, 2017
640
I echo that quote. Hahaha.

I actually found a shorter version of that same introduction online, good read.

The Count of Monte Cristo is one of the most exciting novels ever written and on the other hand is one of the most badly written novels of all time and in any literature. The book is full of holes. Shameless in repeating the same adjective from one line to the next, incontinent in the accumulation of these same adjectives, capable of opening a sententious digression without managing to close it because the syntax cannot hold up, and panting along in this way for twenty lines, it is mechanical and clumsy in its portrayal of feelings: the characters either quiver, or turn pale, or they wipe away large drops of sweat that run down their brow, they gabble with a voice that no longer has anything human about it, they rise convulsively from a chair and fall back into it, while the author always takes care, obsessively, to repeat that the chair onto which they collapsed again was the same one on which they were sitting a second before.
We are well aware why Dumas did this. Not because he could not write. The Three Musketeers is slimmer, faster paced, perhaps to the detriment of psychological development, but rattles along wonderfully. Dumas wrote that way for financial reasons; he was paid a certain amount per line and had to spin things out. Not to mention the need—common to all serialized novels, to help inattentive readers catch up on the previous episode—to obsessively repeat things that were already known, so a character may recount an event on page 100, but on page 105 he meets another character and tells him exactly the same story—and in the first three chapters you should see how often Edmond Dantès tells everyone who will listen that he means to marry and that he is happy: fourteen years in the Château d'If are still not enough for a sniveling wimp like him.
Years ago, the Einaudi publishing house invited me to translate The Count of Monte Cristo. I agreed because I was fascinated by the idea of taking a novel whose narrative structure I admired and whose style I abhorred, and trying to restore that structure in a faster paced, nimbler style, (obviously) without "rewriting," but slimming down the text where it was redundant—and thereby sparing (both publisher and reader) a few hundred pages.
So Dumas wrote for a certain amount per page. But if he had received extra pay for every word saved would he not have been the first to authorize cuts and ellipses?
An example. The original text says:
Danglars arracha machinalement, et l'une après l'autre, les fleurs d'un magnifique oranger; quand il eut fini avec l'oranger, il s'adressa à un cactus, mais alors le cactus, d'un caractère moins facile que l'oranger, le piqua outrageusement.

A literal translation would go like this:
One after another, Danglars mechanically plucked the blossoms from a magnificent orange tree; when he had finished with the orange tree he turned to a cactus, but the cactus, a less easy character than the orange tree, pricked him outrageously.

Without taking anything away from the honest sarcasm that pervades the excerpt, the translation could easily read:
One after another, he mechanically plucked the blossoms from a magnificent orange tree; when he had finished he turned to a cactus but it, being a more difficult character, pricked him outrageously.

This makes thirty-two words in English, in contrast to forty-two in French. A savings of roughly 25 percent.
Or take expressions such as comme pour le prier de le tirer de l'embarras où il se trouvait (as if to beg him to get him out of the difficulty he found himself in). It is obvious that the difficulty someone wants to get out of is the difficulty he actually finds himself in and not another, and it would suffice to say, "as if to beg him to get him out of difficulty." More words saved.
I tried, for a hundred pages or so. Then I gave up because I began to wonder if even the wordiness, the slovenliness, and the redundancies were not part of the narrative apparatus. Would we have loved The Count of Monte Cristo as much as we did if we had not read it the first few times in its nineteenth-century translations?
Let's go back to the initial statement. The Count of Monte Cristo is one of the most exciting novels ever written. With one shot (or with a volley of shots, in a long-range bombardment), Dumas manages to pack into one novel three archetypal situations capable of tugging at the heartstrings of even an executioner: innocence betrayed, the persecuted victim's acquisition—through a stroke of luck—of a colossal fortune that places him above common mortals, and finally, the strategy of a vendetta resulting in the death of characters that the novelist has desperately contrived to appear hateful beyond all reasonable limits.
On this framework there unfolds the portrait of French society during the "Hundred Days" and later during Louis Philippe's reign, with its dandies, bankers, corrupt magistrates, adulteresses, marriage contracts, parliamentary sessions, international relations, state conspiracies, the optical telegraph, letters of credit, the avaricious and shameless calculations of compound interest and dividends, discount rates, currencies and exchange rates, lunches, dances, and funerals—and all of this dominated by the principal topos of the feuilleton, the superman. But unlike all the other artisans who have attempted this classic locus of the popular novel, the Dumas of the superman attempts a disconnected and breathless state of mind, showing his hero torn between the dizziness of omnipotence (owing to his money and knowledge) and terror at his own privileged role, tormented by doubt and reassured by the knowledge that his omnipotence arises from suffering. Hence, a new archetype grafted on to the others, the Count of Monte Cristo (the power of names) is also a Christ figure, and a duly diabolical one, who is cast into the tomb of the Château d'If, a sacrificial victim of human evil, only to arise from it to judge the living and the dead, amid the splendor of a treasure rediscovered after centuries, without ever forgetting that he is a son of man. You can be blasé or critically shrewd, and know a lot about intertextual pitfalls, but still you are drawn into the game, as in a Verdi melodrama. By dint of excess, melodrama and kitsch verge on the sublime, while excess tips over into genius.
There is certainly redundancy, at every step. But could we enjoy the revelations, the series of discoveries through which Edmond Dantès reveals himself to his enemies (and we tremble every time, even though we already know everything), were it not for the intervention, precisely as a literary artifice, of the redundancy and the spasmodic delay that precedes the dramatic turn of events?
If The Count of Monte Cristo were condensed, if the conviction, the escape, the discovery of the treasure, the reappearance in Paris, the vendetta, or rather the chain of vendettas, had all happened within two or three hundred pages, would the novel still have an effect—would it pull us along even in those parts where the tension makes us skip pages and descriptions? (We skip them, but we know they are there, we speed up subjectively but knowing that narrative time is objectively dilated.) It turns out that the horrible stylistic excesses are indeed "padding," but the padding has a structural value; like the graphite rods in nuclear reactors, it slows down the pace to make our expectations more excruciating, our predictions more reckless. Dumas's novel is a machine that prolongs the agony, where what counts is not the quality of the death throes but their duration.
This novel is highly reprehensible from the standpoint of literary style and, if you will, from that of aesthetics. But The Count of Monte Cristo is not intended to be art. Its intentions are mythopoeic. Its aim is to create a myth.

www.theparisreview.org

The Cult of the Imperfect

Umberto Eco on the merits of imperfect works of art, including ‘The Count of Monte Cristo,’ ‘Hamlet,’ and ‘Casablanca.’
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,978
I've recently heard of this and might check it out, but am concerned about the setting change because I find the class politics a huge draw for the novel. Is that same complexity present in this anime adaptation?
If you do end up watching it, I'd love a thread bump with your thoughts. It's one of my favorites, both the original book and the anime, so I'm always up for hearing other's thoughts on it.
 

pez2k

Member
Apr 21, 2018
433
I read the novel for the first time about 18 months ago, after Era's own Edmond (who else!) recommended it in a thread about books. It took a couple of months of bedtime reading to get through, but I was amazed at how much it was actually worth the time. The creeping but utterly thorough destruction of everyone involved just seeps through every part of it, and there are some real peaks of tension as the Count's elaborate plans come to fruition.

Agree with the first part being gross and weird, but also think it was appropriate for him not to get back with Mercedes.

Yep, I'd agree with that - Edmond Dantes never really comes back from prison, and the Count fully commits to sacrificing anything normal and human that was once in him, so there's nothing left to share with Mercedes. He has destroyed her family and her way of life as collateral damage in his selfish revenge plot, and doesn't deserve to have her back. His relationship with his 'daughter' is super, super creepy, but kind of underscores what a broken pariah that he is, and that he'll never be able to return to a normal life.

I was more or less ok with the pacing in the unabridged version. That is, until Dantès gets to Rome. Then parts of the book start to feel really padded.

The start of Rome is definitely the point where I started to question what had happened to the pacing and plot, but by the time I reached the end of it I was enjoying seeing the Count from the outside, and of course ultimately there's a payoff when finding out why it focused on the people that it did.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,467
Actually Count of Monte Cristo is one of the few times I like the whole disguised in plain sight thing. My uncle did not look the same after coming out of a Florida prison he spent a decade in and despite Florida being a really shitty place it is still better than the dank hole they threw my dude the count in.
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,428
The very thinly-veiled lesbian characters were a real surprise, given the time period in which this was written.

Yes, I noticed that too.

Yep, I'd agree with that - Edmond Dantes never really comes back from prison, and the Count fully commits to sacrificing anything normal and human that was once in him, so there's nothing left to share with Mercedes. He has destroyed her family and her way of life as collateral damage in his selfish revenge plot, and doesn't deserve to have her back. His relationship with his 'daughter' is super, super creepy, but kind of underscores what a broken pariah that he is, and that he'll never be able to return to a normal life.

I disagree with this.

While his revenge threatened to consume him, the first brilliant thing about his revenge is that it is all self-inflicted by his foes. He never does something like just outright shooting them, he merely presents them with opportunities for their evilness and selfish greed to win out and they routinely choose that route, destroying themselves. This also gives him a bit of a god complex.

But, when it threatens to kill Albert and Mercedes pleads for her son's life, he relents. In addition, seeing the relationship between the young Morrel and Valentine further reinvigorates his heart. He had definitely returned to humanity and reality by the novel's end, it's just that societal expectations at the time presents him from being with Mercedes. So, times to shack up with Haydee. While the novel is quite progressive at the time, it is still quite sexist. And as a woman, Mercedes should have remained chaste and unmarried, even despite thinking Dantes was dead. Her marrying and producing a child with Ferdinand is basically considered a cardinal sin that deserves a certain punishment.
 
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Akiba756

Member
Oct 1, 2020
1,191
Sao Paolo, Brazil
I've recently heard of this and might check it out, but am concerned about the setting change because I find the class politics a huge draw for the novel. Is that same complexity present in this anime adaptation?

The setting is a weird mix of past and future, but for all intents and purposes, it has the same class politics.
The actual big difference is that the pov character is a minor character from the novel Mercedes Son who witness the Count's plan play out
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,427
Still one of my faves. Mercedes deserved better. Mercedes>Haydee any day of the week.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,733
I absolutely love this book but the way I found this story is super weird. It was watching v for vendetta the movie where there's a scene where v is dueling against a mannequin with some version of the movie playing in the background. I was curious about it and searched what it was, I discovered it had an anime and that was what I actually saw first.

I later read the entire book over a long period of time on my shitty little ipod touch screen and was really surprised when I saw that the story was from the count's point of view instead of Albert's like in the anime. I loved it just the same but honestly I kind of recommend people start with the anime if only because it's fun to see it at first as the mystery of the count and how charming and charismatic he is and then later read the book and see everything from the beginning through his eyes and the entirety of his machinations and seeing how he truly is from the start.
 
Dec 30, 2020
15,656
One of my all time favorite books. I love the third act swerve that Dantes, regretful of his actions, tries put the brakes on his vengeance machine.

Also I'll highly suggest the film adaptation from 1975 with Donald Pleasance playing Danglars.