Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX): Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is underperforming sales wise. Selling about half of what Remake sold in the same timeframe
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FFXVII is FFXII but the hunts sidequests are a fully fleshed out multiplayer Monster Hunter like gameplay loop.
Or you can still go solo with gambit party members.
FF Monster Hunter is what the world needs. It could be a Helldivers moment for the franchise.
And so it will never happen.
It was mentioned earlier, but would SE really let another 5+ year gap go between mainlines? I know it's industry standard and all but like 5 years seems to be a steep price after everything they did in March to speed up the process. Especially since it's likely in preproduction at one of the studios (hell it could even be in pre-prod at CS1).
CS1 is doing KH4, due within a year allegedly, and VII Remake Part 3. CS3 may be doing XVII but if so there hasn't been any indications that they are working on it since they just got done with XVI and it was almost 3 years between reveal trailer and release for XVI, so unless they're going to show it next month, we're looking at a 4 year minimum.
All I want is something that feels fresh and new and makes me think "I don't know what to expect!".
I don't know if that's what everyone else wants, I don't know if that will make it successful but it's what I want.
I don't know if that's what everyone else wants, I don't know if that will make it successful but it's what I want.
Plenty of well reviewed games get passed over all the time. At this point whenever you or I or any fan say the game is good and point at the metascore we look desperate.
When people hear about Rebirth they will not hear about it's good reviews or the positive word of mouth from it's players they will only hear that it bombed and that the ending is "bad."
They will hear that it's for the olds.
I really want to eat these words. I want to look like the biggest dumbest idiot on the planet and for Remake to be a Switch 2 launch title in 2025, Rebirth to get a port in 2026, and see part 3 release day and date on ps4/5/Switch 2/PC and sell boat loads!
If the day comes where FF7 Rebirth or Part 3 succeed and someone @ 's me to tell me I was wrong I will respond with an uproarious "hell yes I was wrong and a fool!"
I will be there...4 years from now...hopefully.
SE report is on the 13th, right?
I also find it interesting that seemingly in the EU Rebirth sold a bit better than XVI while in the US and Japan XVI did better. I wonder how that came to be. PS was always dominant in EU so maybe that helped?
During launch as a PS exclusive? I'd take that bet with no hesitation.
Remake sold 7m.
Straight sequels tend to be more frontloaded because they appeal a fanbase that should be eager to play them. Opening with such low numbers is worrying because it means that LTD could show a big drop from Remake.
JRPGs tend to be very much a front loaded genre, and while given squares typical pricing strategies, it'll certainly move more copies, doing that at a fraction of the price over the long term is hardly something worth writing home about.
I think if we look at things longterm, the VII remake trilogy will boast considerable sales. Because I have to imagine once the third entry has been finished and released, we can expect to see complete collections of the game released. And these will absolutely be ported over to future consoles, perhaps even to Nintendo once enough time has passed and the hardware technology can handle it.
I think if there's a budget cut for part 3 it would make more sense for it to hit marketing more than anything else, after all nobody is really going to jump into the final part of the trilogy at this point without playing the previous ones. Only the invested people remain.
Marketing in Japan was pretty huge for example and it didn't do much good.
Marketing in Japan was pretty huge for example and it didn't do much good.
Yes but it has been free for it's biggest platform PS4, on PS+ since 1 year after it released. And many people started playing Remake after Rebirth won most anticipated game in December so it has probably been played by way over 10 million people by now, being free for so long. That makes Rebirth numbers even more weak but I really think it will be 5+ milion in this year at least. It deserves the double at least.
I wouldn't mind if 17 was another part of the Ivalice saga. The world and time-line are so fleshed out, there's plenty to do there.
I think Ivalice games could suffer a similar fate where people think they need to play other games to have the full picture whether it is true or not.
I think mainline titles should always be a new setting except if they are a direct continuation like X-2 etc.
a lot of comments here seem like crazy cope. "wom will carry sales", it's not doing that now. "multiplatform will carry sales" it didnt the last time. "the finished trilogy will sell well" based on what? the minimal evidence we have is the Twin Pack, which Matt already said it wouldnt move Rebirth an inch
we will maybe see some marginal boost depending on those factors, but at that point, how much does it matter? no company, even SE, is going to magically expect pc ports or bundles years down the line to account for the low sales of the main release.
at this point, we really just gotta wait for the 12th to see SE report and, hopefully, get some real intel about Rebirth's and the project's sales
we will maybe see some marginal boost depending on those factors, but at that point, how much does it matter? no company, even SE, is going to magically expect pc ports or bundles years down the line to account for the low sales of the main release.
at this point, we really just gotta wait for the 12th to see SE report and, hopefully, get some real intel about Rebirth's and the project's sales
It had sold 5 milions half a year after release. Probably around 5,5 one year after. Then it was 7 milions sold (not played) in September 2023. After that we had the pre Rebirth hype period. Why would it not been played by millions on ps+ when it has been free 3 years on there? Of course more people want to play the cheap option than buying the game and Remake has been one of the most hyped and liked games on ps+.
I guess it just goes to show to not read into those "most anticipated" polls.
Long-term the FF7 Trilogy pack will sell well.
But the 3rd game probably will sell well under Rebirth's numbers. That's just the nature of long narrative game sequels that require a heavy time investment to catch up to the story.
This isn't Spiderman or God of War where anybody can buy the newest iteration and jump right into the story. There's a massive time investment required to know what's going on at the start of FF7 Part 3.
For me, reasonable expectations: FF7 Part 3 sales of 4 million on PS5-6 + PC + where-ever else it's sold separately.
FF7 Trilogy pack(s) sales of 9 million within first 10 years on PS5-6 + PC + next 2 gens of Switch/Xbox. Probably will break 12 million over 15 years with remasters and at lower prices.
That's a terrific outcome, but I think FF fans probably have to accept that Rebirth will never be played anywhere near as much as Remake and the 3rd will never be played as much as the 2nd. That's the nature of heavy attrition with long narrative games; the time commitment required to play Remake fully and then Rebirth fully to get to part 3 often results in most just never getting that far.
FFX/FFX-2 HD remaster bundle is a great example of that: 73% of Steam players have the first achievement; 29% defeat Yunalesca, 19% defeat Yu Yevon, 3% defeat Vegnagun.
Most people that buy the trilogy will play some of Remake, less than 40-50% will then play Rebirth, and less than 20-25% will play Part 3. That's pretty much how this has always worked.
Strange thing is (I am sure it has been discussed) is that Mass Effect games all sold roughly equally. So either they had no dropoff between installments, or they managed to get new players who hadn't played the first or second one. Each game story is relatively better contained than the FF7r trilogy, but still. I know a lot of people did it, but I sort of can't imagine playing ME2 without playing ME1.
Either way, this makes me sad - I know my tastes are not reflective of the wider market at this point, but still, this is such a great game and labor of love, it deserved to sell more.
I could indeed see a big sales boost in one specific case. Launch title for the Switch 2. At least Remake has to be on there. When the Switch 2 rumors started there were also rumors that the Remake would be a launch title but nobody knows if there is an truth to that.
Perhaps SE even planned for that with Rebirth's 3 month exclusivity window but the Switch 2 delay now put those plans on hold. (who am I kidding though, this is SE and we will get epic exclusivity before anything for a year, lol)
Rebirth is already game with really bad legs, and the number of added sales it would take for it to get to 5 million in a year is a significant distance away from how many copies Remake needed to get there. It's not happening.
I think the thing is that a lot of other franchises (Spiderman/GoW/Mass Effect is a good example) have managed to position/market themselves in such a way that you can enter a longer narrative at any time of the story. Players feel comfortable jumping into those games at any point. Millions have likely played the newest games of those series without touching the earlier ones. It's okay to not know what happened to the characters/story before.
That just never seems to happen with direct JRPG sequels. I don't know if it's marketing, that the large ensemble casts and intricate stories can be intimidating to outsiders, or what, but it just happens that way.
For FF, I think gamers have been "trained" over the 3+ decades to think about the mainline entries as new starting points but not about direct sequels within..., which obviously makes trying to sell sequels a very tough lift. We're now 14 mainline games into this series (15 if you include FF7's remake trilogy), and it's very difficult to change how gamers approach the series; there's just a general public knowledge that "you can enter FF at the next new mainline game".
FF17 for example will get a fresh look from everyone even those that may not have liked 16's direction, but it's very difficult to see the FF7 Part 3 getting a fresh look outside of Remake/Rebirth players.
Remake had a 89% first week dropoff and Rebirth 91%. I didn't compare the following weeks but I would guess there isn't much difference between those two. Then again, the barrier of entry for Rebirth is bigger so who knows.
Yea, I get that, I find it surprising in the context of Mass Effect in particular. Spiderman has completely generic superhero story (not badly told, but about 10 different spiderman stories could have served as prequels for spiderman 2). GoW is a touch more surprising, but the story is still not the primary draw and the story of the first can be summarized very concisely. I wouldn't say this of Mass Effect, but evidently people could jump in without playing the previous entries.
How do you know it not having bad legs because of it being a free download on its biggest platform since 1 year after release? We can't know. For me it would of course effect the sold number by quite much.
You're right, I think the genre helps to explain that though; ARPG/3rd person shooters probably feel approachable and historically it's like Borderlands or Halo installments where although you're only experiencing a part of the story, it's very mission driven and you can easily focus on one part of the story.
I think ARPG players are more used to separate installments that you can just jump into even as connected stories, whereas JRPG players expect a new/fresh mainline story each time. The history of FF/DQ and other JRPGs sort of has led us to that distinction from how they've been marketed/sold. The fact that so few major JRPGs get direct storyline sequels plays into this.
(Obviously I'm generalizing here, not trying to say either situation is wrong, just that the basic expectation feels different from the categories of playerbases).
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Ivalice doesn't really have this issue since the game only have loose connections at best to others. It's more like Zelda's Hyrule between games.
It's probably unlikely we return there though without Matsuno deciding he wants to get involved again.
Well, it would depend on how they go about it. If the connection would be loose anyway then I think a new world would be a better fit. Personal opinion of course.
Trilogy Pack will be an evergreen title that will sell long into the future as a terrifically priced/packed full of content version of FF7 (that will likely get HD/remastered versions as well).
Of course that won't help the 3rd game's individual sales, which I expect to be well below 5 million lifetime.
FFX/FFX-2 HD Remastered bundle sold around 7 million units over 10 years. That's a baseline expectation for the Trilogy pack imo given that it's likely to be well priced relative to the content inside and will likely be the first time that Switch/Xbox players among others have access to it...
I think it's obvious at this point that the Trilogy pack will outsell the 3rd game easily; there's just a lot more value and it's obviously approachable by outsiders since it has the first two games of the trilogy as opposed to being just the 3rd.
For the Trilogy packs (including remasters), I think 10 million sales is probably a baseline over a 15 year stretch; it will be one of the definitive JRPG experiences and will be extremely well priced compared to any other offering. Whenever it goes on sale ($30-40), it will likely see big uptake given the hundreds of hours of high quality/acclaimed games included.
Of course, none of this helps SE immediately and the 3rd title might barely breakeven or possibly lose some money in the short run, but they have to know that in the long run, the Trilogy pack(s) will be an extremely profitable library title so I don't see any budget cuts for the 3rd.
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exactly lmfao
i don't get the unbounded optimism to SE, out of all companies
you are right, it won't help the individual sales of the games, which is the most important point right now. SE needs to course correct to hopefully increase Rebirth's, but more importantly Part 3's sales because it's not looking good
all of that also directly influences the eventual collection sales too. the FFX/X-2 bundle sold well because X in of itself is one the most iconic and famous games of all time. if the audience keeps dwindling like it is for the Remake project, it will 100% negatively affect the collection sales all together
though, the question is how much can SE even do for Part 3. i'd imagine even exclusivity is locked in already
You're right that the next 3-4 years are likely to be extremely tough for SE as they work through FF17 and FF7 Part 3 as well as the other DQ games that have been slow burners.
Part 3 may lose money (perhaps >50% odds at this point). There's no way to sugarcoat this; given its AAA budget, and given that the sales expectations are lowered (3-4 million lifetime probably in play for Part 3), we're in a place where the 3rd game's release is going to be a tough situation for them to grind through. I think they have to deliver on making Part 3 as good as Part 2 (at least with critics/superfans), so that it becomes easier to sell the Trilogy pack(s) over time.
Only thing I'd push back on is that I don't think the sales of the 3rd game will affect the Trilogy pack(s). FF7 itself is among the most acclaimed JRPGs ever (similar to FFX's branding halo).
I think the sheer amount of premium content that the the Trilogy packs will have will make them "must owns" over the long-term for JRPG fans or anybody looking for the biggest/meatiest RPG title of all time; there won't be an alternative, so it should be a hugely profitable long-term library title (as FFX/X-2 bundle has proven to be). $30-40 for FF7 trilogy bundle will move like hotcakes even in 10 or 15 years imo.
My expectation is 10 million sales of Trilogy packs over a 15 year period regardless of the 3rd game's individual sales. I just think this will be an absolute must own bundle as long as the 3rd game rates well and is seen as delivering a strong conclusion by critics (i.e. it's in GOTY discussion like Rebirth and all the rest).
Good wom will matter for the 3rd title (not for individual sales but for helping to sell the trilogy). You want glowing reviews on the 3rd game even if most Trilogy buyers will never play it (I hope that makes sense though it sounds odd).
All of this sounds like extreme wishful thinking I am sorry. FF is not GTA.
A trilogy pack will likely be over $100...
I don't think I would bet on that.
Honestly the best case scenario would be that they just bundle 1 and 2 with 3 at $70, and offer a standalone 3 at cheaper. But I'm not gonna pretend I have any idea how practical that would be for game like this.
I don't think I would bet on that.
Honestly the best case scenario would be that they just bundle 1 and 2 with 3 at $70, and offer a standalone 3 at cheaper. But I'm not gonna pretend I have any idea how practical that would be for game like this.
FFX/FFX-2 bundle has sold 7 million by now over around a 10 year span as an evergreen, of course it's often discounted at around $20 or less at this point.
Sure, it'll start at likely $99-120 for the trilogy bundle, but within a couple years it'll be selling at discounts for sub-60. A decade later, you'll be able to get it for 30-40. That's how this always works.
There's no way that they can change their pricing strategy for 3 now. They have to sell it at the premium $70 for the first 2-3 million players, and then it'll likely decline pretty quickly to sub $40 as they focus on trilogy pack sales.
SE has to try to squeeze as much $ out of the 3rd game to at least try to cover its costs.
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7m units not including PS+ is even more worrying because it means that the number of actual players is much larger and only a small % transferred to a full price Rebirth.
While thats possible, piecing the story of the world together is really only for the people who find it interesting. So far all the Ivalice games(FF12, FF Tactics, Vagrant Story etc) all stand on their own , and you don't really need to play all three to understand the general story, the games just have small references to each other. It's not in your face demanding you play the others like FF7 is. 17 could be like those three too.
Absolutely. All internet polls are junk.
I agree that SE will benefit from going multiplatform, but I have my doubts as to how much they will benefit. They have a bit of a shaky record porting their games in general. Regarding the future Switch 2 in particular, who knows what they'll have to do to get these games running well. There's also the problem that people largely buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Approximately 0% of the many children getting Switch 2's for Christmas will be asking Santa for a copy of Final Fantasy VII: Repeat.
I don't think we actually have reliable numbers of how many units the Mass Effect games sold. In fact, that's something I've always wanted to know. That said, as I understand the sales increased from ME1 to ME2 and then from ME2 to ME3.
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