Love Boat 3 Mafia |OT| This time it's Bearsonal

Dr. Monkey · Jun 2, 2019

TheChuggernaut said:
This "It's too obvious" argument is bad. Especially when we're talking about a scum team that fake green checked a scum partner

You're comparing things that aren't the same.

Greenchecking a scum partner is wild WIFOM territory and that's why it's usually left alone/ignored unless there's reason to dig into it. We got to the point where there was reason: they weren't dead and we had a small PoE but it was definitely framed as an info lunch more than anything else. Don't play it like anything else. AbBro got flipped for info first, curiosity second, possible scummitude third.

Scum not spilling their spaghetti but throwing it everywhere is too obvious. Not voting. Wildly defending a partner. Showing up and doing weird shit and disappearing. ALL those things get read as scummy. Scum tries not to look scummy usually. Literally why do all of them.

Lone_Prodigy · Jun 2, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
sprinkle of truth makes the lies easier to swallow

been saying it since day 3

Which is the lie and which is the truth?

Dr. Monkey said:
NX was literally years ago. False comparison. You know it, I know it.

Is there a statute of limitations on using past games to analyze players' style and behaviour? Cluedo was a long time ago too.

What about this? "Dr. Stu wouldn't sign off on such brazen scum behaviour." IIRC, in MafiEra we had scum Monkey, a fake cop claim from scum, and a fake doctor claim from scum. Or is that recent enough?

I expected better.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 2, 2019

Lone_Prodigy said:
You're willing to clear Nat because he couldn't have been bussing AB since D1? I mean, Coolest doubled Abs on D2. Where's the town cred for that?

Last day was pretty much decided on Abs until SkyChugg came up. The day before, RekiBro was the consensus pick. And before that, Baelus ran away with the vote. So yeah I'd say there was some agreement there. I'm not taking credit for the "vanillas first" plan either. I think that was Fanto's idea, and he flipped town.

Actually, it's interesting that you mention Cluedo. I remember before I got lunched that we had some back and forths and all that did was convince me that you were scum because you were directing the conversation away from your scum buddies. You wouldn't acknowledge that they were acting scummy. You turned it around and got me voted out, and the rest was history.

I'm starting to think this could be the same situation.

Don't act like I just said the vote didn't matter. Untrue. I said the timing of the vote mattered. It's not that Nat voted Abs; it's when he did. And I'm certainly not saying feps and Stan didn't do scummy shit. I'm saying that almost everything they've done could be ready as scummy and that would be shit-tier play for scum and I frankly think they are better than than.

You're not twisting my words, my dude. I see that shit from ten miles away.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

Lone_Prodigy said:
Which is the lie and which is the truth?

Is there a statute of limitations on using past games to analyze players' style and behaviour? Cluedo was a long time ago too.

What about this? "Dr. Stu wouldn't sign off on such brazen scum behaviour." IIRC, in MafiEra we had scum Monkey, a fake cop claim from scum, and a fake doctor claim from scum. Or is that recent enough?

I expected better.

That Coolest wanted to look town is the truth.

I didn't do any of those claims in Mafiera. Weren't my claims. And my behavior around Faddy's made me look real bad because i'm not one for gambits and I sweated saving it. I see you, LP.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

And acting like there isn't a difference between a what, season four, five? game and a Season 10 or 11 game is wild. That would have been one of your early games, yeah? Yeah, there's a difference between my early games and now, too. Surprise!

Stantastic · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
And acting like there isn't a difference between a what, season four, five? game and a Season 10 or 11 game is wild. That would have been one of your early games, yeah? Yeah, there's a difference between my early games and now, too. Surprise!

its true, go look at my first games.

im actually polite!

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
Today: flatearthstans
Tonight: town (Kyonna or Verello)
Tomorrow: you or us
tomorrow night: town (Kyonna or Verello)
leaving: Lone_sae, SkyChugger, and either you guys or us, and SkyChugger gets lunched, scum wins if L_S is scum here.

Tell me it doesn't go down that way after yesterday's votes and flip without someone in here jumping up and down and screaming? Because that is exactly how it goes down. And that is exactly why we saw what we did.

If everyone here was dumb enough to vote out both my boat and SkyChugg's boat before LP/Sae then I'm washing my hands of this shit show and taking none of the blame for that loss.

Stantastic said:
yeah collective yall.

What previous games have had these kinds of limited Double votes?
i feel like iv only seen the standard constant double votes.

Believe me im well aware of my partners failings, using them as an excuse to sleepwalk though the day is stupid and imma call it as such.
If your so certain you should be able to entertain other ideas and still hold to your conclusions,

right now it just looks like your just sticking your head in the sand, and advocating others to do the same.

I couldn't possibly begin to say - I feel like I've seen a limited one a couple times at least. Or maybe it's that they can't be used after a certain point.

Dr. Monkey said:
It's a double and a single strong and maybe something else or not. Here's why:

Town has MD
Scum has 1-ninja
Town has docs
Scum has 1-shot strong

This means scum has the chances to circumvent town powers without either side having a super advantage. Meanwhile, scum can deploy the double in the hopes the strong won't get tracked and utilize the ninja while the role cop works. In return, town has all these self-confirming roles, but they're a little sketchy. Messenger? Could be either. Gossip thieves? Were argued as possible scum from the beginning, or neutral a la LB1 (obviously they aren't). The vig existed to take out someone odd or creating doubt but they got unlucky and died n1.

As a puzzle, the game breaks open quite easily.

But you just made my point. If you have a -shot double vote, a 1-shot ninja kill, and a 1-shot strong kill to divide between two people how do you divide that up? Because the answer 99.99% of the time is probably put both kill modifiers on one player as a JOAT and leave the double for the other. We know that's not what happened though.

Stantastic · Jun 3, 2019

Natiko said:
I couldn't possibly begin to say - I feel like I've seen a limited one a couple times at least. Or maybe it's that they can't be used after a certain point.

that could very well be the case here.
It would add up with them using it so early (and partially on a scummate but im probably stretching there) as a means to towncred, if they knew they wouldn't be able to really hold onto it for a final blow, and using it to opportunistically otherwise can easily backfire.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

Natiko said:
If everyone here was dumb enough to vote out both my boat and SkyChugg's boat before LP/Sae then I'm washing my hands of this shit show and taking none of the blame for that loss.

If Apollo, Zipped, and I hadn't started this no one was going to look at them and that's partly my fault. No one was really looking at them anymore. This is exactly how it goes down. SkyChugger gets left for endgame and they get voted out because "who knows, messengers." You're telling me at endgame you'd vote L_S, after they bussed Abs and Coolest did the double on Abs if no one had brought this up?

Really?

They were sliding into home.

Natiko said:
But you just made my point. If you have a -shot double vote, a 1-shot ninja kill, and a 1-shot strong kill to divide between two people how do you divide that up? Because the answer 99.99% of the time is probably put both kill modifiers on one player as a JOAT and leave the double for the other. We know that's not what happened though.

No, I didn't. Because there are always some factors we don't know until end game. See: mafiera and the size of scum team/starting cult team vs town. There's something we don't know around the double, but some kind of day-semi-confirm is the flip side of the ninja shot and it's why the ninja didn't get more shots vs a motion detector. It's another way to hide.

Stantastic · Jun 3, 2019

oh fucking hell ,i just meant to type out "garden" in a different thing and subconsciously typed "argument" instead.

i cant handle that imma take a break for a bit

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I said my piece and then said it again and at this point I'd just be repeating myself.

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
If Apollo, Zipped, and I hadn't started this no one was going to look at them and that's partly my fault. No one was really looking at them anymore. This is exactly how it goes down. SkyChugger gets left for endgame and they get voted out because "who knows, messengers." You're telling me at endgame you'd vote L_S, after they bussed Abs and Coolest did the double on Abs if no one had brought this up?

Really?

They were sliding into home.

Nah, again if people look at yesterday and their takeaway is SkyChugg and Terra and I look worse than LP/Sae then they're trash at this game and deserve to lose. You're attributing more town cred to LP/Sae for a lynch they weren't remotely the main advocates for.

No, I didn't. Because there are always some factors we don't know until end game. See: mafiera and the size of scum team/starting cult team vs town. There's something we don't know around the double, but some kind of day-semi-confirm is the flip side of the ninja shot and it's why the ninja didn't get more shots vs a motion detector. It's another way to hide.

I feel like this ignored my point that the two kill modifiers get paired together as opposed to split apart to put one of them with a double vote for reasons.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

Natiko said:
Nah, again if people look at yesterday and their takeaway is SkyChugg and Terra and I look worse than LP/Sae then they're trash at this game and deserve to lose. You're attributing more town cred to LP/Sae for a lynch they weren't remotely the main advocates for.

I feel like this ignored my point that the two kill modifiers get paired together as opposed to split apart to put one of them with a double vote for reasons.

1. And you're ignoring what's been happening the last few phases, when no one was talking about them but everyone was talking about you or us or Skychugger and flatearthstans. Go back and look at all the different PoEs and ideas about where the game went after AbBro.
2. Yes, normally I think they would but in this case ninja on one and a double on the other give them both a way around the MD while the role cop is unprotected.

Now I'm really going to bed.

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
1. And you're ignoring what's been happening the last few phases, when no one was talking about them but everyone was talking about you or us or Skychugger and flatearthstans. Go back and look at all the different PoEs and ideas about where the game went after AbBro.
2. Yes, normally I think they would but in this case ninja on one and a double on the other give them both a way around the MD while the role cop is unprotected.

Now I'm really going to bed.

1. Sure, but why go for AB at all then? If they are going to skate by regardless then there's no need to bus.
2. That's an argument for a scum double as opposed to a scum JOAT with a double. If there was going to be a JOAT it would have been with the ninja in my opinion. That doesn't preclude the possibility of scum double vote either, but in my mind it increases the odds that it's a four boat scum team instead.

flatearthpandas · Jun 3, 2019

I've got two more pages to read and I don't have a lot of time until tomorrow to post but I see we haven't turbo'd yet and I appreciate that. Let me catch up and explain as best as i can any doubts. Suffice to say I was dead wrong but I was convinced myself. Going forth with humility

flatearthpandas · Jun 3, 2019

Okay, caught up on reading but heads got a long way to go. I felt so sure yesterday and then I majorly fucked up with the attack on Skychuggs and then woke up later to the flip of Abs and confidence is shot. I don't know. I am a bit relieved that Monkey saw the last day for what it was. For the time being, until I can get my bearings after I finish up today (RL) and get some sleep, I can only really weakly indicate to my conversation with Natiko yesterday regarding his scum team.

He was sure that Absbro was scum and he was right.

I mentioned that Stan was on the abs vote early and that Chuggs jumped on at a time that that in no way saved Abs. Also, I unvoted from kitslor at a similarly bad time and did not jump back on despite being around and the vote being a bit wild. I was actually questioning the swing off of abs, but admittedly not in a clear way.

No idea how to clear this up but keep in mind the game is not going to be over if you lynch us. Just give us some time to at least put together a decent read list for the rest of the game you can look back on next day. As I said, I'm going to need a bit more time for that.

The Bear · Jun 3, 2019

==== DAY 6 VOTES ====
Day Start

Stantastic & flatearthpandas (3 votes)
TheChuggernaut - #5,894
~~Natiko - #5,922~~ #5,964
Stuart444 - #5,892
empressdonna - #5,893

saenima & Lone_Prodigy (2 votes)
Dr. Monkey - #5,923
Stantastic - #5,948

Not voting: Terraforce, Verelios, saenima, flatearthpandas, Apollo, Lone_Prodigy, Natiko, SkyOdin, Kyanrute

Post Counts:
Dr. Monkey: 29 TheChuggernaut: 18 Stantastic: 18 Natiko: 10 Lone_Prodigy: 9 empressdonna: 7 Stuart444: 7 SkyOdin: 5 Verelios: 2 Apollo: 2 Kyanrute: 2 saenima: 2 flatearthpandas: 2

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Good morning,

I'll word this as best as I can in my half asleep state haha.

----------

Based on my vote breakdown earlier, if we were only focused on ties through votes:

stan/fep would only be connected to skychug

Hypothetically, if stan/fep flip town, we would probably look to skychug since some have been wondering about them.

sae/lp would only be connected to verollo

Hypothetically, if sae/lp is town, we wouldn't go onto the verollo wagon because we know that is confirmed town haha.

----------

The thing that pushes me towards stan/fep is just all based on those questions yesterday which made our plan come to light. I mean sure, scum were probably going to go after fanto anyway, but we could have potentially cleared or caught someone today if we died instead of them.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Another thing that I've been trying to work through is the night actions we know happened or we can assume happened.

I don't think it will turn up anything important especially with blanks in information, it's just been something I've been mulling over.

Oh and two more things before breakfast:

- we are either at 5 teams vs 1 team or 4 teams vs 2 teams depending on remaining scum
- I had a dream we'd win this XD wishful thinking maybe but last time that happened was sneakers and I did win haha.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

ahh I counted wrong again bah.

6 vs 1 or 5 vs 2

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Quotes from Fep

flatearthpandas said:
Problem is I really don't want a lynch wasted on Abs so that flip and town cred will ideally have to come after the game. You'd be better off with my flip than abs to solve this conundrum but I'd really prefer that not to happen as well.

I think I already quoted this originally but it just stands out more now with abs being scum.

flatearthpandas said:
I'm sure there's scum on sorian but also feel there's another scum fucking about off the wagon. That would be between abs, chugg, fan, and Natiko.

Chugg.

Was wrong about this since abs was scum.

flatearthpandas said:
I would've accepted that you voted to remove one fan to make things easier to keep track of. I assume that's why you nk'd them after?

Assumed skychug did the nk.

flatearthpandas said:
Did empresskyan actually share skychugg's message? If that happened we should trust at least that they didn't send the nk yesterday. Trusting fan, that means dr. stu is either a ninja or not scum.

A quote I didn't pick up on.

I did share it but didn't initially. The whole idea in my mind was 'if skychug were scum, scum probably got told what was sent'

Some people may go 'But Donna, if Fep was scum, why would he ask these questions in the first place? Either he knows (scenario skychug = scum) or he assumes because baelus did'

Something just feels wrong here and this is coming from someone who earlier in the game would have been more than happy to go after saeL_P.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Known/Assumed Night stuff breakdown funtimes:

N1: kill (assuming ninja), check from bae, doctors protected, skychug messaged, fantohead detected, racva did bet, final scum did nothing/2 scums did nothing (3 teams or 4 teams scum)
N2: kill, check from bae?, skychug messaged, fantohead detected, racva did bet + got power, final scum did nothing/final 2 did nothing (3 teams or 4 teams scum)
N3: kill, skychug messaged, fantohead detected, racva did bet + tracked, final scum did nothing/final 2 did nothing (2 teams or 3 teams)
N4: kill, skychug messaged, fantohead detected, final scum did nothing/final 2 did nothing (2 teams or 3 teams)
N5: kill, skychug messaged, final scum did nothing? (1 team or 2 teams)

That is just based on what we know of course or can assume.

- Our power is used during the day
- vig's power would have been used during the day
- double voter used their power publically during the day
- celebs reveal was public and during the day

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Small correction to the above:

An attempt to detect last night did happen but we'll never know the outcome :(.

Anyway, my next plan of action is to go over CS properly since I was rushing it last night. Just for quotes I may have missed.

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

Just a heads up I'm not feeling well today so on the plus side I won't be busy st work, but in the down side I'll be busy sleeping.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

empressdonna I actually doubt the ninja shot would have been used n1. Baelus did a check n1 and probably there was a regular kill, since if there was a strong, they knew where the doctor would be. Ninja would more likely be used later. Probably Abs and co did the kill anyway, though, since they'd be less likely to be tracked/followed/anything and indeed, Fantopinhead checked Stan/feps that night.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
empressdonna I actually doubt the ninja shot would have been used n1. Baelus did a check n1 and probably there was a regular kill, since if there was a strong, they knew where the doctor would be. Ninja would more likely be used later. Probably Abs and co did the kill anyway, though, since they'd be less likely to be tracked/followed/anything and indeed, Fantopinhead checked Stan/feps that night.

Maybe, but for the assumption stan/fep are scum, then it would have been the ninja to do it or they are town.

It's one of those things that would be nice to clear up :(.

Also, while you are here, a quick query: if saeL_P flipped town, would you doubt natforce due to nat talking with me about them? I'm just curious ^^

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

The ninja pair probably did the kill based on d1 ending and everyone yelling town but without using the ninja shot.

L_S isn't going to flip town. Literally the only people left are them, flatearthstans, and us. Someither both them and fes are scum or they are.

Either way, I don't see Natforce or Chuggs for all the reasons I've stated. There's bussing for cover and bussing to try to get your teammates killed and only one is productive outside certain situations. D1 usually isn't one of those unless a scummie has been outed.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

Mobile typos. someither = so either

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

absolutbro said:
If anything, maybe that means there are 4 scum total? They're preempting a future issue? Clearly they're not worried about the tracker/your boat seeing them. I can't imagine there's an infinite ninja, but maybe they just don't have that many roles? I dunno. I am honestly not sure that the remaining scum are all in the vanilla claims. Maybe I'm just flat wrong in my reads and one of them is a PR hiding in plain sight.

Probably not four scum teams, then.

absolutbro said:
I feel like I keep getting passed from pocket to pocket. First Sorian has a sudden and vehement defense of my boat D1. Then Pirate Malus "clears" me D2. Then you and SkyOdin are so sure I'm townboat that we get a message with your PR. Now Panda is putting up a stronger defense for me than I am. I'll be honest. My boat hasn't accomplished much and if flipping us helps town the most then fine, I can live (or rather die) with that. But it's weird that my so very quiet boat keeps getting passed around, when the only ones who can be 100% for sure of my alignment are me and scum. Well I guess not even scum since I could be neutral and they wouldn't know, but you get my meaning.

Sorian-town
Baelus-scum buddy
SkyChugger-probably town
flatearthstans-probably town

Going back to key parts of AbBro's reads:

absolutbro said:
If I'm looking for a scum coaster between Stan/Fep and ... well me, I go Stan/Fep. Not because I've accomplished much but I know my role so that doesn't leave much room.
SkyOdin/TheChuggernaut: It's possible this is the first game I've seen a town messenger. It's odd. I have no idea what the use of the power would be, but it seems like this shouldn't be on the same team as the motion detector. It becomes easier to avoid the information mixup by just ... not using a power that doesn't do much to begin with. OTOH, I don't see why they would send my boat their identity if they're scum. They didn't know what my role was, they didn't know if I could do something... it just seems too risky to out yourself.

CoolestSpot/Lone_Prodigy: Possible scumcoaster boat. Scum double-voter would be weird, but in boats it's really only 1.5 votes. I am pretty sure I gave my scum team in Rick and Morty a multiple voter (triple I think?). Maybe it was a town role? I dunno, CoolestSpot hasn't been doing any really, really crazy gambits so I sort of feel like he's learned how to help town out better.

Stantastic/FEP: covered above a little bit. Stan seems to pull the team towards town for a bunch of us, since his votes for Sorian and Xbro both had pretty strong reasoning posts behind them. FEP's posts aren't bad, but they're not really full of anything either. (Hi kettle, nice to meet you, I'm pot...)

leaning Stan/FEP, but it's the easy vote. I dunno how much information it gives us in the end, and getting this close to end game I feel like we need more than just a flip on its own. If Monkey/Stu are scum, then their game has been exemplary because they skated out of a few tunnels. It

First, acting like we never have town messengers is odd but whatever, maybe he was never in a game with one.
Second, R&M had a vote blocker (that was a really cool game btw absolutbro and I wish I'd played in it; every time I look at the design, it makes me happy).

But what's key here is that while AbBro doesn't really say anything of substance here, the direction he pushes each read without saying anything is notable.

SkyChugger: probably totally scum but mostly based on being a messenger and an attempted pocket is the implication here.
Lone_saenima: probably scumcoaster but actually town because we're justifying the double as not a big deal and also Coolest isn't gambiting (!!!) and so maybe he's helping town (where/how???).
flatearthstans: Townie and kinda townie but you know what let's vote them out anyway because scum.

y'all.

Stuart444 · Jun 3, 2019

Vote: Saenima

I'm gonna give this to ya Monkey and if they aren't scum, tomorrow, Fep/Stan.

TheChuggernaut · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
Probably not four scum teams, then.

Sorian-town
Baelus-scum buddy
SkyChugger-probably town
flatearthstans-probably town

Going back to key parts of AbBro's reads:

First, acting like we never have town messengers is odd but whatever, maybe he was never in a game with one.
Second, R&M had a vote blocker (that was a really cool game btw absolutbro and I wish I'd played in it; every time I look at the design, it makes me happy).

But what's key here is that while AbBro doesn't really say anything of substance here, the direction he pushes each read without saying anything is notable.

SkyChugger: probably totally scum but mostly based on being a messenger and an attempted pocket is the implication here.
Lone_saenima: probably scumcoaster but actually town because we're justifying the double as not a big deal and also Coolest isn't gambiting (!!!) and so maybe he's helping town (where/how???).
flatearthstans: Townie and kinda townie but you know what let's vote them out anyway because scum.

y'all.

See, even with what he's saying about Standas, he's still giving himself an out to not vote there.

I don't know, at this point I'm starting to buy what you're selling, but I still really think Standas is the place to vote today. Really though, you have my vote tomorrow if the game isn't over.

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

Stuart444 said:
Vote: Saenima

I'm gonna give this to ya Monkey and if they aren't scum, tomorrow, Fep/Stan.

best buddy <3 <3

And I'm totally on board to flip flatearthstans. I don't even care what order. They can't be confirmed with anything we've seen. I just feel like their behavior makes a lot more sense as town than it does as scum. I can't see them making so many moves as scum that would obviously be read as scum.

TheChuggernaut · Jun 3, 2019

So basically at this point we're just arguing about the order lol

Dr. Monkey · Jun 3, 2019

I personally think the game probably ends with a Lone_sae vote but that's the part I'm least sure about.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Picked some of the EOD quotes for looking over

CoolestSpot said:
I wonder if they are, or if they're fine losing one of their scummates? They aren't at point in game where they can be losing people tho, right? We think there are 2-3?

Fuck it, I don't know man!

Hmm...

Verelios said:
Still don't see AB being scum. That green check would be extremely bold of scum and not worth it in case of a cop counterclaim.

We know verollo is town so this quote is here in memory of before the flip :(.

SkyOdin said:
Maybe we should just get a wagon set-up for Natiko or Stuart and see if anyone is interested?

This looks really bad now with the flip ^^;

Lone_Prodigy said:
Day 5 is not the time to be flirting with ties and last minute wagons.

voice of reason L_P

Natiko said:
Just got home haven't read, but it seems like we're settled on AB which is fine by me lol

This also sort of looks bad, but if somehow natforce are scum then me lasting this long would just feel like an apology for 999 haha.

Lone_Prodigy · Jun 3, 2019

Dr. Monkey said:
Don't act like I just said the vote didn't matter. Untrue. I said the timing of the vote mattered. It's not that Nat voted Abs; it's when he did. And I'm certainly not saying feps and Stan didn't do scummy shit. I'm saying that almost everything they've done could be ready as scummy and that would be shit-tier play for scum and I frankly think they are better than than.

You're not twisting my words, my dude. I see that shit from ten miles away.

It was partly sarcastic. But I'm more surprised that you would give NatForce and SkyChugg a pass so easily for a D1 bus. I wasn't there, but imagine if Abs has flipped scum that day. They would've coasted to endgame.

I'd be more interested in seeing what reason you'll cook up to throw them under the bus when the game continues. What previous game will you draw on this time?

Dr. Monkey said:
That Coolest wanted to look town is the truth.

I didn't do any of those claims in Mafiera. Weren't my claims. And my behavior around Faddy's made me look real bad because i'm not one for gambits and I sweated saving it. I see you, LP.

If you have a mostly benign PR why wouldn't you use it to confirm yourself. Mafia players talk a lot about sacrifice and taking one for the team but at the end of the day no one wants to die and stop playing.

Dr. Monkey said:
And acting like there isn't a difference between a what, season four, five? game and a Season 10 or 11 game is wild. That would have been one of your early games, yeah? Yeah, there's a difference between my early games and now, too. Surprise!

My point still stands: the game you're referencing had you as scum leading town astray. Sure I may have played with more fire there, but that was in an impossible situation. Here it's not nearly as dire. The game won't end when I die and town should have enough to get over the finish line. Just not sure if they're listening to the right voices.

saenima · Jun 3, 2019

This feels like picking up Les Miserables halfway through without knowing the plot or any of the characters and being asked about themes and plot holes.

But seriously, this sucks. Barely had time to read anything and i'm already being kicked to the kerb. Heh.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

saenima said:
Barely had time to read anything and i'm already being kicked to the kerb. Heh.

This feels a little drastic when there are still people to vote :).

saenima · Jun 3, 2019

empressdonna said:
This feels a little drastic when there are still people to vote :).

Just venting lol. Still gonna read what i can and do the best possible.

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

empressdonna said:
Picked some of the EOD quotes for looking over

Hmm...

We know verollo is town so this quote is here in memory of before the flip :(.

This looks really bad now with the flip ^^;

voice of reason L_P

This also sort of looks bad, but if somehow natforce are scum then me lasting this long would just feel like an apology for 999 haha.

What do you think looks bad there? I was firmly on AB so of course I'm going to be fine with that result.

Lone_Prodigy said:
It was partly sarcastic. But I'm more surprised that you would give NatForce and SkyChugg a pass so easily for a D1 bus. I wasn't there, but imagine if Abs has flipped scum that day. They would've coasted to endgame.

I'd be more interested in seeing what reason you'll cook up to throw them under the bus when the game continues. What previous game will you draw on this time?

If you have a mostly benign PR why wouldn't you use it to confirm yourself. Mafia players talk a lot about sacrifice and taking one for the team but at the end of the day no one wants to die and stop playing.

My point still stands: the game you're referencing had you as scum leading town astray. Sure I may have played with more fire there, but that was in an impossible situation. Here it's not nearly as dire. The game won't end when I die and town should have enough to get over the finish line. Just not sure if they're listening to the right voices.

Can you walk me through your thought process today LP? You seem to be against an FEPStan vote and advocating for a Dr. Stu one yes? Just checking since these were your thoughts yesterday:

Lone_Prodigy said:
I'm pretty tired and this last bit of info on SkyChugg looks interesting to dive into, but I think we should vote between the vanillas today because the last thing I want is to talk ourselves out of a lunch that could help solve the game.

I've boiled it down to flipping AbsFat today:

If AbsFat flips scum, it makes Nat look better and FEP look worse.

If AbsFat flips town, it makes FEP look better and Nat look worse.

Reality is not as simple (could be bussing or just a mistake) but this is likely where I'm going.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Natiko said:
What do you think looks bad there? I was firmly on AB so of course I'm going to be fine with that result.

I just found it weird last night and I know I was going to say something about it in my thread with kyan, but then the flip came and I didn't.

Simply put if they hadn't flipped scum, I would have been prodding you a bit today haha ^^;

SkyOdin · Jun 3, 2019

empressdonna said:
Picked some of the EOD quotes for looking over

Hmm...

We know verollo is town so this quote is here in memory of before the flip :(.

This looks really bad now with the flip ^^;

voice of reason L_P

This also sort of looks bad, but if somehow natforce are scum then me lasting this long would just feel like an apology for 999 haha.

Show some mercy donna, you gave me a panic attack with that last minute "hey maybe scum are happy with this lynch" concern! Being on the lynch was stressful enough as it was, but then you activated my anxious, second-guessing nature. I was back and forth between Stan/FEPs, absolutbro, and my reads being utter trash that entire day. I was pretty happy with absolutbro as a choive, but then you made that comment and that dark voice whispered in the back of my brain: "but what if you are wrong?"

So thanks for that.

Lone_Prodigy · Jun 3, 2019

I can't believe I missed this.

Dr. Monkey said:
If Apollo, Zipped, and I hadn't started this no one was going to look at them and that's partly my fault. No one was really looking at them anymore. This is exactly how it goes down. SkyChugger gets left for endgame and they get voted out because "who knows, messengers." You're telling me at endgame you'd vote L_S, after they bussed Abs and Coolest did the double on Abs if no one had brought this up?

Is this what you're concerned about? You mention poor SkyChugg getting voted out in endgame instead (nice pocket btw), but I think what you're really planning for is being voted out yourself in endgame and losing the game for scum.

How would that look? On one side we have a double voter who got scum. On the other we have a pair that has been under scrutiny the whole game (even after bussing Baelus) and a sketchy vote record. No, you wouldn't survive that thunderdome.

So get those double voters out earlier and shrug your shoulders when another one of your suspects flip town.

I can see the counter-argument forming already. But I wouldn't bother. Let everyone else read and come to their own conclusions.

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

empressdonna said:
I just found it weird last night and I know I was going to say something about it in my thread with kyan, but then the flip came and I didn't.

Simply put if they hadn't flipped scum, I would have been prodding you a bit today haha ^^;

Oh got it, yeah I had already prepared myself for the fact that if I was wrong I was just going to be totally eviscerated today lol

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

It's time for CS quote time, maybe doubles in here from yesterday :( so sorry about that.

CoolestSpot said:
How does this game usually go by the way, does every pair have a power? Have they been balanced so oftentimes only work if both alive, or such?

Why ask this? He should have known XD? It's NAI though.

CoolestSpot said:
Why...why town feels? This seems like a way to try us to stop asking questions which is offputting

Was confused as to why he was being townread

CoolestSpot said:
Nah I get that, but still, its odd for me to see you pick a group of people who if anything you want more from and could ask questions of and instead go "See they arent doing much but a human mistake, gee, they scum??". Its even weirder cause I said when I get back I'm going to do reada into you since you felt off in your posts, which makes me immeditally think you don't want me digging.

This was in response to Natiko.

CoolestSpot said:
So Brazil is a power role...

Interesting

Pretty sure I quoted this last night, how did he guess this or "guess" if scum

CoolestSpot said:
Read over his posts and how it goes counter to how he usually plays. Either he has power role and doesnt want to be targetted as he thinks its too powerful and can be useful to town later, OR he's a neutral.

I'm giving him benefit of doubt and assuming he got a big role.

Hmm...

CoolestSpot said:
Oh I totally can move it during day, was confused with how the rules mixed with ones about my partner sharing its abilities.

Abilities, plural. We've only seen one Dr. Monkey This quote alone makes me wonder if you are right.

CoolestSpot said:
Oh shit you should've done that.

I would've lied about the message's power tho and done some big dumb gambit, so guess it's good I didn't get it.

Gambit CS, always gonna gambit.

CoolestSpot said:
I just mean at this point if you not trying to get away with lying it'll just be helping scum choose who to go BLAM BLAM on. Mass claims usually help scum right?

How cocky would scum be to say this??

CoolestSpot said:
Better to think of all possibilities, for sure, I won't knock that. I was surprised how everyone assumed my role made us green checked, since I know nothing of roles and every time I've ever used an ability people have been like "oh so you scum eh?" while rubbing their chins. Be open minded is the best play.

Again, didn't understand why he was green checked.

CoolestSpot said:
A Pair of 1-Shot Doublevote Bears is the role title, I don't see what you're wanting here?

The role name he gave us

CoolestSpot said:
Let's start our next day trains now, in case of either flip?

Wanted us to start the trains early for today.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

SkyOdin said:
Show some mercy donna, you gave me a panic attack with that last minute "hey maybe scum are happy with this lynch" concern!

<3 Haha, it was a worry of mine, trust me I understand.

Lone_Prodigy · Jun 3, 2019

Natiko said:
Can you walk me through your thought process today LP? You seem to be against an FEPStan vote and advocating for a Dr. Stu one yes? Just checking since these were your thoughts yesterday:

Up to recently I was pretty convinced Dr. Stu was town. There was dissenting evidence and opinions, but I figured those were just the consequences of being town: they have the bigger bloc and less knowledge than scum so they're going to trip up.

I will admit I didn't pay too much attention though because everyone put us in the town column. And perhaps that was part of scum's plan: lure us until a false sense of security and then have that used against us ("they're coasting and doing nothing!")

My eyes have been opened now, and hopefully it's not too late for town. Just look at the 180 from Dr. Stu yesterday: SkyChugg was the second competing wagon a day ago. Today they're "number 1 confirmed town" along with NatForce. And FlatStan can be the vote today, but they're probably just misguided town.

What will be the narrative tomorrow? FlatStan, NatForce, or SkyChugg as the definite scum? Stay tuned on the Dr. Stu Show!

I know Sorian epitomizes "don't believe his lies" but Monkey is a close close second. There's a reason she has that tag.

I see you, Monkey.

Natiko · Jun 3, 2019

empressdonna said:
It's time for CS quote time, maybe doubles in here from yesterday :( so sorry about that.

Why ask this? He should have known XD? It's NAI though.

Was confused as to why he was being townread

This was in response to Natiko.

Pretty sure I quoted this last night, how did he guess this or "guess" if scum

Hmm...

Abilities, plural. We've only seen one Dr. Monkey This quote alone makes me wonder if you are right.

Gambit CS, always gonna gambit.

How cocky would scum be to say this??

Again, didn't understand why he was green checked.

The role name he gave us

Wanted us to start the trains early for today.

You know, I had totally spaced that weird post about Brazil having a PR. Given it's likely that Brazil got checked N1 which led to his unexpected death N2, that post almost screams that it's the actual Coolest gambit. Such a dumb post to make that perfectly fits in for Coolest as scum. Thank you for reminding me of that Donna. Let's do this thing.

VOTE: Lone_Prodigy

If we're wrong we still have time tomorrow to get it right, but that post coming from a position of actual knowledge just makes so much more sense now.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Oh lovely, this again.

Well you all know how I feel by now so I'll stay focused on trying to find scum ^_^.

empressdonna · Jun 3, 2019

Natiko said:
If we're wrong we still have time tomorrow to get it right, but that post coming from a position of actual knowledge just makes so much more sense now.

Yeah, it does look more and more curious and the "abilities" thing just should have been something I picked up on sooner as well.

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