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Fanto

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
I don't know what the top bit means. Do you think I talked to you an abnormal amount previously?
I wouldn't say an abnormal amount, just that I feel like I don't remember talking to you as much as I have to the other players during the last couple of day phases.
My list currently would be:
Saw-Fan - Not both and with Saw ahead in my mind
Malus
LP

If I absolutely had to throw someone else on the list then mayyybe Blarg honestly. Feels like he's coasting now. Wouldn't shock me if the scum team is just the top three though.
Why is Saw ahead of Fan in your mind currently?
malus seems to just play this way.
Yeah, that is fair. It was just an observation that made me remember a time when he was doing a very similar thing when he was talking about me in Conspiracy, but he also has like one Town game under his belt only on top of that, so it's probably not too fair.
 

Sawneeks

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,848
I went back and re-read D3 end, from before Faddy's claim to the hammer.

One difference between that day and other "scum claims PR and gets counter-claimed and then reveals their true self by voting for said counter-claimant because why would you do that if you were actually the PR" scenarios is that Faddy claimed with 3.5 hours left in the day, not 10 minutes.

No votes changed until Ket counterclaimed. If Faddy had fake claimed with 10 minutes left, votes would've shifted and Faddy would likely have been spared (pending flips of the other wagons).

Let's say Ket was away and discussion continued. Would votes have moved to the other wagons? It seems like it would've taken a Herculean effort (or a new voter checking in before day's end and placing a vote). If the other wagons were town, it wouldn't have been as difficult to move a vote there. The fact that everyone twiddled their thumbs until Ket posted seems like scum's plan was just to use Faddy's bomb and force out a possible doc claim on the way out.
Holy shit I think LP may be town.

If this is the case and Scum simply waited to see what happened who jumps out to you as the scummiest of that bunch?
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
@Sorian and @Fran I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as I'm sure you both remember Malus as Scum in Conspiracy, and what Kyan is saying here reallllly reminds me of some of the things he'd do there. Especially that bolded part.

If don't think I read anything of Conspiracy besides Polter's crazy theories for the lols.

Honestly I don't remember well how Malus played there. That description could match how he played there but I haven't read a game where he was town so I can't make a meta read with him.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
Oh and I also noticed that Natiko was awfully quick to jump on Faddy once Ket counterclaimed. (Yes timing is relative but he was the first.)

He had doubts already, and the counterclaim pushed it over the top, but he was in a chat with Faddy. I would assume Faddy did his best to breadcrumb and solidify his alignment/claim in there. To just go ahead and vote him... almost seems like he knew, and wanted to distance himself from the bomb.

This doesn't discount the other early Faddy voters, but I found it interesting that the boat partner is so quick to turn. Top 10 anime betrayals, etc.
 

Fanto

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
If don't think I read anything of Conspiracy besides Polter's crazy theories for the lols.

Honestly I don't remember well how Malus played there. That description could match how he played there but I haven't read a game where he was town so I can't make a meta read with him.
Yeah, basically what Sorian said. I probably should wait until I see more Town Malus before being so quick to scum read him for previous play haha.
 

Sawneeks

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,848
I went back and re-read D3 end, from before Faddy's claim to the hammer.

One difference between that day and other "scum claims PR and gets counter-claimed and then reveals their true self by voting for said counter-claimant because why would you do that if you were actually the PR" scenarios is that Faddy claimed with 3.5 hours left in the day, not 10 minutes.

No votes changed until Ket counterclaimed. If Faddy had fake claimed with 10 minutes left, votes would've shifted and Faddy would likely have been spared (pending flips of the other wagons).

Let's say Ket was away and discussion continued. Would votes have moved to the other wagons? It seems like it would've taken a Herculean effort (or a new voter checking in before day's end and placing a vote). If the other wagons were town, it wouldn't have been as difficult to move a vote there. The fact that everyone twiddled their thumbs until Ket posted seems like scum's plan was just to use Faddy's bomb and force out a possible doc claim on the way out.
Oh and I also noticed that Natiko was awfully quick to jump on Faddy once Ket counterclaimed. (Yes timing is relative but he was the first.)

He had doubts already, and the counterclaim pushed it over the top, but he was in a chat with Faddy. I would assume Faddy did his best to breadcrumb and solidify his alignment/claim in there. To just go ahead and vote him... almost seems like he knew, and wanted to distance himself from the bomb.

This doesn't discount the other early Faddy voters, but I found it interesting that the boat partner is so quick to turn. Top 10 anime betrayals, etc.
Yeah, I'd be fine with giving LP townie points here.

I was musing the same earlier when I went over the Faddy claim last night but didn't know how to put it into words. Everyone just sort of waited right after he claimed and no one moved until Ket countered.
 

Fanto

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Let's say Ket was away and discussion continued. Would votes have moved to the other wagons? It seems like it would've taken a Herculean effort (or a new voter checking in before day's end and placing a vote). If the other wagons were town, it wouldn't have been as difficult to move a vote there. The fact that everyone twiddled their thumbs until Ket posted seems like scum's plan was just to use Faddy's bomb and force out a possible doc claim on the way out.
This is one hell of an observation.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Fun fact, in the game I was talking about we got you killed and you were a serial killer that was slipping completely under the radar.

I'm going to get the first half of my reads list out. It's almost dinner time so I won't be back for a bit:

************************************************************************************

1. [m] Fantomas - Confirmed town since we've had no counterclaim as cabot's mason partner

6. [m] Fran - Almost certainly town. For a while I thought about floating the idea of scum having a "Mafia Backup" and a "Town Backup" so that they could inherit powers from both sides, but the more I thought about it the less sense it made. What would scum need with a doctor? Or an alignment cop?

22. [m] CeeCee - Town dayvig. As others have pointed out, if Ceecee was scum, why bother claiming the kill? All it did was bring suspicion down. Would have been a better play to let town wonder where it came from and what the alignment was.

2. [m] EzekelRAGE - I was suspicious enough of Zubz, who felt like despite claiming to scum read Turmoil they were avoiding actuall voting for him. EzekelRAGE hasn't done a whole lot to make me feel any better. He continues to bear down on Ceecee early on. He has an exchange with Faddy early on (3,456/3,460) that feels super weak and pointless. He does say in 3,670 during the Faddy/Fando/Malus thing that he'd vote Faddy over Fando/Malus, but I think that might just be early bussing for town cred over an actual read (mostly because he admits it would be "sheeping Fran and fanto on faddy". He was willing to hammer the vote though, which I can't imagine he would want to do if he was scum. It is, despite his miss to chuggernaut, the biggest thing I town read him for. Wanting that hammer so badly, but missing because Chuggernaut posted at almost the exact same time.

5. [f] Pirate Bae - claims Town Cop, been blocked but did clear KetKat. Alignment cop is super easy for scum to fake claim, since they know the roles, but I see no reason to doubt her right now. I'm sure scum will clear this up for is in the next night or so.

12. [m] FluxWaveZ - Sharing a boat didn't really make me feel any worse or better about Flux. The only thing that gives me just a tiny smidge of doubt that Flux is town is how weak and bizarre the move against him by Turmoil was. I have to admit the possibility that it was a sacrifice play by scum to get one of them out of contention.

7. [m] Sorian - I'm leaning scum on Sorian. Even early on it feels like he's nitpicking to throw shade. Sure he "understand(s) the perpsective", but this is the kind of slow burn scum play I expect from Sorian. (This is incomplete, I will come back to this after I eat.)

10. [m] Fireblend - I feel like he has an eye on Turmoil early on, from pointing out Turmoil's vote for Stan as leader to asking Dr. Monkey about her having turmoil in a "no idea/don't lynch" list. He continues his eye on Turmoil convo until the next day, where Faddy even throws shade his way for it. He votes for Turmoil early on in the "can't move your vote C'thulhu modifier" day, bringing him into a three way tie with pirate and flux. Overall I come away with a town read on Fireblend.

16. [m] malus - Pretty strong scum read. Possibly my top at this point. A fair amount of vague or side topic posts that don't go anywhere. The graph building off (the very townread) Fran's question felt really, really steering to me, since it removed quite a few other players from people's minds. His "gun to head I townread Turmoil" post reads like a setup. His post on Ceecee and Faddy also looks readlly bad in retrospect. I need to fully comb the last couple days posts, but I am doubting I will find much that moves the needle much.


All the good stuff is in the second half, I'm afk a bit but I'll be back to read part two of this reads list.

-----

Also, sure, that's probably one of the earliest times I've seen L_P get some real talk down in a game so that's something.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
I wouldn't say an abnormal amount, just that I feel like I don't remember talking to you as much as I have to the other players during the last couple of day phases.

Why is Saw ahead of Fan in your mind currently?

Yeah, that is fair. It was just an observation that made me remember a time when he was doing a very similar thing when he was talking about me in Conspiracy, but he also has like one Town game under his belt only on top of that, so it's probably not too fair.
I've already laid out my suspicions on Saw. Her flip flopping to follow the mood of the room today hasn't made me suddenly feel better either.

Oh and I also noticed that Natiko was awfully quick to jump on Faddy once Ket counterclaimed. (Yes timing is relative but he was the first.)

He had doubts already, and the counterclaim pushed it over the top, but he was in a chat with Faddy. I would assume Faddy did his best to breadcrumb and solidify his alignment/claim in there. To just go ahead and vote him... almost seems like he knew, and wanted to distance himself from the bomb.

This doesn't discount the other early Faddy voters, but I found it interesting that the boat partner is so quick to turn. Top 10 anime betrayals, etc.
Go for it - if people want to lynch me over being skeptical because Faddy had already misled me and I believed the green check over him so be it. I'll just go talk shit from the comfort of spec chat lol
 

Fanto

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Ok, looking at the votes right now:

NsJ8CLM.png


I am feeling some things about everyone who has votes down.

Me and Fran are currently split between Brazil and Fandorin. Zeke and Sorian are on the Brazil vote with Fran, Sawneeks and Pirate Bae are on the Fandorin vote with me. I have some Town Leans on most of those players, plus the claim from Pirate Bae makes me all but sure she is Town here.

Natiko has a vote for Sawneeks which seems to be his top scum read right now.

Blarg is voting for Sorian.

The Malus voters:
Fandorin and Brazil: Hard scum reads on Malus, are basically convinced he is Scum. Are also convinced they are both Town. They are possibly more sure about these reads than I've seen anyone be about a read.
Rac: He's been scum reading Malus since D3, I'm not surprised to see his vote there.
LP: He does seem to be bringing some good thoughts to the table here today when he's around. He seems to believe we had Scum vs. Scum yesterday and Malus is his pick between him and Fandorin.
FluxWaveZ: I can at least feel like this is not a vote coming from the Scum Team.
Kyanrute: Laid out his reasoning for why he thinks Malus is Scum, similar to how he did for Faddy yesterday.

------------------------------------------------------

What I'm left with are some uncomfortable feelings. Malus has an easy lead so far, but it's only because of Brazil and Fandorin tag-teaming on this scum read together. Meanwhile, the other two top contenders for a lynch today, are Brazil and Fandorin. Then we have Natiko with his scum read on Sawneeks. I'm honestly pretty unsure about Sawneeks still here. There is still the link between her and Fandorin due to her shouting him out when she voted for Turmoil and that she has only just today seemingly started to back away from that lynch a bit.

I'm not sure what my full takeaway from all of this is, but I thought I'd give it to you all for your consideration since these are some of the things going on in my mind* right now.



*As a Confirmed Town member.
 

Fanto

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
I'm gunna be on mobile for a while here now just checking in occasionally, but I'll try to respond if anyone is quoting or pinging me specifically.
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
malus

Love really hurts without you
Love really hurts without you
And it's breaking my heart
But what can I do

Love really hurts without you
Love really hurts through and through
And it's breaking my heart
But what can I do
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Some boys take a beautiful girl
And NK her away from the rest of world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh girls just want to have fun

VOTE: malus
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167

During this day I feel that every time a little fight starts you are in the sidelines and then you make some posts to fuel that fight but also trying to not involve yourself in it.

And this is suspicious after you tunneled on CeeCee yesterday and avoided to participate in any of the wagons claiming that you would just vote whatever Fantomas and I were voting. More scummy is that, after saying that, you kept your vote on CeeCee (and both Fantomas and I were voting Faddy for a long time) until the very last second of yesterday and just jumped on the Faddy's vote AFTER the majority was settled.
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
But you see, it's not me
Its not my family
In your head, in your head, they are fighting
With their tanks, and their bombs
And their bombs, and their guns
In your head, in your head, they are crying
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Why are you so scared?

So scared of me?

Isn't it because I know you?

I see into your soul?

I judge you

I find you guilty

And I forgive you

You shall find mercy in death

And you shall all die

For my glory

Forever and ever

Amen
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
If CeeCee hadn't wasted that bullet, this would be the poetic time to do it.

#mess
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,219
During this day I feel that every time a little fight starts you are in the sidelines and then you make some posts to fuel that fight but also trying to not involve yourself in it.

And this is suspicious after you tunneled on CeeCee yesterday and avoided to participate in any of the wagons claiming that you would just vote whatever Fantomas and I were voting. More scummy is that, after saying that, you kept your vote on CeeCee (and both Fantomas and I were voting Faddy for a long time) until the very last second of yesterday and just jumped on the Faddy's vote AFTER the majority was settled.
Last time I'm saying anything about the faddy vote, because it's a weak angle to try and lynch me on.If I'm scum, I know faddy is the bomb. I wouldn't even risk trying to be a late vote on faddy. You and flux pressuring me to move to a wagon off cc was the perfect chance for me to move to faddy w/o any real suspicion. As I said I would just sheep you and fanto on faddy neway. I'm on mobile, not keeping track of the votes.

As far as the sidelines comment.
I can't be on the sidelines not getting involved AND adding fuel to the fire. If I'm adding fuel to a fire I am getting involved.

Most of the ppl I've interacted with today I also mentioned in my first two posts.
Brazil, Sorian, monkey, ceecee. With the exception of cc I had problems with the reactions the other 3 had to various things.
 

Sawneeks

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,848
Malus Votes of D3:

Brazil: #3017 - Felt good about his 2 out of 4 bet. Since Bae/Flux look better he started off on Malus.
Natiko #3335 - An indepth analysis of Malus' posts. Focuses on Malus' posts about SSM's vote on Terra, the flipflopping of the CeeCee read, gut feeling on Pirate Bae to vote and the walkback, and how post-bae claim he goes for Flux and not Turmoil.
Fireblend #3553 - To keep things tied.
Fandorin #3590 - Big ol reads list that ends with a rac, Zeke, and Malus scum reads. Hasn't added much, OMGUS vote, and no actual talk about the case against Fandorin despite the vote.
Rac #3591 - Mentions how he (Malus) likes Fandorin and how he wasn't on Fando's kill list, notes how Malus' reads before his Bae vote had Flux as the main contender, and the shade he throws on to rac
Faddy #3638 - No one wants Brazil so he goes to Malus because Malus is more likely to be scum than Fando.

Brazil, is this what you are referring to in that vote?
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
But all I ever wanted was to make things right
The years of idleness and spite
I push my emotions off a bridge
After taking them hostage with a shotgun
Now they're somewhere treading water
Somewhere lost inside the man that I'm not
But I don't wanna be an asshole anymore
 

CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
Remember: the world collapses non-linearly

Your enemies were once your friends

Everything will die in the light

Nothing will save you
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
As far as the sidelines comment.
I can't be on the sidelines not getting involved AND adding fuel to the fire. If I'm adding fuel to a fire I am getting involved.

I'm talking about posts like this:

This brazil/fando vs Sorian is interesting.

Great point. With the way brazil is going on he has guaranteed scum in Sorian.


In those posts you are doing nothing to advance that discussion but just trying to incentivate it. There is no interaction, no reads, nothing.

I can understand an "let them fight" stance but those comments seemed weird to me.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
Also, no way in hell Stan/Brazil's people's Power was the counter to Cee's Day-kill.

I know balance and balance is Cee vs. Faddy. Period.
 

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
Town-reading Cee, LP (4 years in the making), other people

I want Sorian and Sawneeks to fight

Mafia's Dr. Monkey, malus, Natiko and Ezekel

calling it now 6-scum game more than enough to kill anything that moves
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,219
I'm talking about posts like this:

In those posts you are doing nothing to advance that discussion but just trying to incentivate it. There is no interaction, no reads, nothing.

I can understand an "let them fight" stance but those comments seemed weird to me.
First two quotes, I have a vote on Brazil. How is that not getting involved?

Last quote on monkey. Are you purposely ignoring that I followed that up with quoting that exact quote from monkey again, along with questioning monkey about how that post contradicts her using faddy in her earlier posts?

So you really don't have anything to support sidelines/fueling the fire comment?
Ezekel have you considered why scum killed cabot yet?
Still haven't given it any thought
 

Sawneeks

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,848
Thanks, Zeke.

Also I'm gonna echo Flux from earlier but...I wouldn't mind ending this Day Phase sooner? Folks seem to be kinda placed into their camps of either Fandorin/Brazil/Malus and it's really just arguing there who is going to be lynched first. The Brazil argument isn't as strong to me as either Malus or Fandorin and I'm starting to think we should lynch the one we feel would reveal more information about other players. I'm also saying this as someone who thinks both have scummy habits but I don't think both are scummates. I think it's one or the other and I'm frankly not sure which one it could be.

I still have my vote on Fandorin but I may move it. I don't know. I'm 50/50 on them and I could argue for and against both of them easily.

A real bastard game wouldn't advertise itself as bastard
tenor.gif