Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
I think the quick kill is smart. Get rid of someone while there's nothing to go on. Can get away with shooting someone you think will be active too.

RIP ATP I'm sure we'll be in another game together in like 3 years when I feel like playing again.
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
Oh boy.


Vote: MrHedin

this town ain't big enough for the two of us




I'm not really sure what the point of speculating about this is. We don't have a way of knowing.
I'd consider current activity to be NAI. A hit-and-run from the scum thread feels just as plausible as shooting and turning up. I'd consider the possibility that they'd gamble on a fast kill leading to one of the present players getting booted, then that player making a reactive mis-kill - I think that would work better if they stayed in the background.
I'll just file these away for the future then. I still think looking at some of the people here when the game started is a good idea, but I guess i don't want that to cloud my judgement right away on the first day.
 

Alexem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,335
Essex, UK
From the open setup, it can't be a N0 action, that action HAD to be submitted after the day started. I assumed that they would also be here.
From the timing, I think they were intentionally waiting for a few people to show up before submitting the kill. If they just wanted to kill someone straight away with no chance of leaving any clues, they could have given the command the moment the game began.
 

HPSauce

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,118
U.K.
I tried this in the last game but the size of it got the better of me. I'm gonna try to write posts similar to what I was doing in Nier again. Might get the better of me again but I'll do my best.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Anyway, I was playing with the numbers since this is such a small game and I'm curious. I ran a bunch of montecarlo simulations on how reliably and/or fast we can expect to find mafia if we randomly sample N players from the full pool and stick to choosing our kills solely from that pool. For every random sample of size N between 1 and 11, I wanted to know:
  • What's the probability there's mafia in that sample.
  • How many mafia are there on average in that sample.
  • When there *is* at least one mafia, how many random shots does it take to find the first?
I'm not sure if this is useful, maybe just a curiosity, but here are my findings:

Code:
>>> Sample size: 1
On average there are 0.27703 mafia members in random group (in 27703 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 0.0 random choices

>>> Sample size: 2
On average there are 0.5463 mafia members in random group (in 49105 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 0.4412585276448427 random choices

>>> Sample size: 3
On average there are 0.8165 mafia members in random group (in 65938 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 0.8399708817373897 random choices

>>> Sample size: 4
On average there are 1.09598 mafia members in random group (in 79075 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.1901738855516915 random choices

>>> Sample size: 5
On average there are 1.36525 mafia members in random group (in 88048 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.4854284026894422 random choices

>>> Sample size: 6
On average there are 1.63678 mafia members in random group (in 93920 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.711914395229983 random choices

>>> Sample size: 7
On average there are 1.90853 mafia members in random group (in 97554 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.8616766098776063 random choices

>>> Sample size: 8
On average there are 2.18431 mafia members in random group (in 99427 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.9634103412553934 random choices

>>> Sample size: 9
On average there are 2.45294 mafia members in random group (in 100000 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 2.00874 random choices

>>> Sample size: 10
On average there are 2.72703 mafia members in random group (in 100000 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.99893 random choices

>>> Sample size: 11
On average there are 3.0 mafia members in random group (in 100000 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.99702 random choices

What it could *possibly* mean is we could gamble on the N=4 or 5 results, hope that by selecting that number of random players and sticking to it we fall into the 79%-88% percent of games where there's mafia *and* we find them within our second random choice lol
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
From the timing, I think they were intentionally waiting for a few people to show up before submitting the kill. If they just wanted to kill someone straight away with no chance of leaving any clues, they could have given the command the moment the game began.
They still left no clues, IMO. This is just extra WIFOM.
 

Alexem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,335
Essex, UK
Anyway, I was playing with the numbers since this is such a small game and I'm curious. I ran a bunch of montecarlo simulations on how reliably and/or fast we can expect to find mafia if we randomly sample N players from the full pool and stick to choosing our kills solely from that pool. For every random sample of size N between 1 and 11, I wanted to know:
  • What's the probability there's mafia in that sample.
  • How many mafia are there on average in that sample.
  • When there *is* at least one mafia, how many random shots does it take to find the first?
I'm not sure if this is useful, maybe just a curiosity, but here are my findings:

Code:
>>> Sample size: 1
On average there are 0.27703 mafia members in random group (in 27703 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 0.0 random choices

>>> Sample size: 2
On average there are 0.5463 mafia members in random group (in 49105 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 0.4412585276448427 random choices

>>> Sample size: 3
On average there are 0.8165 mafia members in random group (in 65938 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 0.8399708817373897 random choices

>>> Sample size: 4
On average there are 1.09598 mafia members in random group (in 79075 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.1901738855516915 random choices

>>> Sample size: 5
On average there are 1.36525 mafia members in random group (in 88048 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.4854284026894422 random choices

>>> Sample size: 6
On average there are 1.63678 mafia members in random group (in 93920 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.711914395229983 random choices

>>> Sample size: 7
On average there are 1.90853 mafia members in random group (in 97554 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.8616766098776063 random choices

>>> Sample size: 8
On average there are 2.18431 mafia members in random group (in 99427 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.9634103412553934 random choices

>>> Sample size: 9
On average there are 2.45294 mafia members in random group (in 100000 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 2.00874 random choices

>>> Sample size: 10
On average there are 2.72703 mafia members in random group (in 100000 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.99893 random choices

>>> Sample size: 11
On average there are 3.0 mafia members in random group (in 100000 of 100k simulations)
On average the first mafia member was found after 1.99702 random choices

What it could *possibly* mean is we could gamble on the N=4 or 5 results, hope that by selecting that number of random players and sticking to it we fall into the 79%-88% percent of games where there's mafia *and* we find them within our second random choice lol
This is nice, but I'd like to see goat theory applied to the game as well.
 

melonrabbit

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,103
Nowhere
why-would-you-say-something-so-controversial-yet-so-brave.gif
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,185
Really there isn't much to go on and I'm green as hell lol but I'm here to play so: if we count up until now, the discussion around the death, the only folks we haven't seen are Sneeks and Nin (and ATP but, well). That means scum didn't agree to hang back as a unit, because at least one of them is here around the death.

I presume scum isn't clueless and didn't plan to risk throwing themselves in the fire with pure confusion so my guess would be they hoped we would pick a simple enough group to start with that they weren't in to waste day one, probably those who posted before the death since it's smaller and easier to start wiith. If scum was one of the four who posted prekill, that was risky. My gut guess then, scum arrived after the kill, will push gently over the course of the day toward group 1 prekill , but gently to maximise a miss on vengeance.

all based on no experience or familiarity with anyone lol
 
Last edited:

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
Okay, but why? It's just as easy to just ghost the day start and there's not really much point at using this to try to frame someone because it's as low info as you can get
Like what I posted to Melonrabbit, maybe it's just chaos, or I'm playing right into their hand.

it is really low info, but I can't help but think scum is there.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Like what I posted to Melonrabbit, maybe it's just chaos, or I'm playing right into their hand.

it is really low info, but I can't help but think scum is there.
I still see it as NAI. I think it's kinda silly that it was orchestrated such that they made sure to show up in the thread before submitting the kill with the intent of ghosting it afterwards, but then again I haven't played in a while. Not to say that I don't think there's mafia there, just that if there is, it wasn't orchestrated or planned.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
6,856
I still see it as NAI. I think it's kinda silly that it was orchestrated such that they made sure to show up in the thread before submitting the kill with the intent of ghosting it afterwards, but then again I haven't played in a while. Not to say that I don't think there's mafia there, just that if there is, it wasn't orchestrated or planned.

I agree, it's NAI. I'm actually finding it more interesting that Zipped keeps trying push this theory, kind of like he's trying to divert attention away.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
With such a simple setup in which we have no investigative roles, no protection, no nothing and it will come down to which group gets whittled down the fastest, I think it's more important than ever to get some votes down and not be afraid to get spicy. Let's see those votes and sick reads.

Because we either play the numbers game like I showed above, or create enough breadcrumbs for ourselves to logic this out.

And I'd be happy to policy vote inactivity as well. Neither nin nor sneeks have shown up and I'd really like to see them check in at some point.

I would like to have a word with the developer in that case.
Oh no the vote tool is now saying you're dead. Ah well we'll have to roll with it.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
6,856
I'll put a real vote down:

Vote: Zipped]/highlight]

His whole would scum be here at the day start or not just feels like a lot of intentional WIFOM. Either he's trying to make us look one direction or he's just trying to get something out there to make himself look busy. Either way it's the only real notable action I have seen from someone so far.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,243
Yeah, sorry was playing Among Us. My super hot take is that Melon feels town just based on what's she's putting down. I'm going to...agree...with...Hedin, in that Zipped feels the most suss of everyone so far. Everything he's putting down just feels like pointless speculation.

Vote: Zipped
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,243
Not going to be around too much tonight. Going to play some games with my good buddy Nat and hopefully get him drunk enough to tell me who scum is, and I also have to watch Doom Patrol because it's important