i'd criticise that entire scene no matter who it was.
Rather watch Anakin talk about sand.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi gets its first full Fan Edit
- Thread starter Anth0ny
- Start date
Rather watch Anakin talk about sand.
It doesn't do anything special for her character either way, but changing it up makes for a good crowd pleasing conclusion in IX. TLJ has its own set of themes, the power of failure, subversion of series tropes, the fact that you don't have to be anyone special to make a difference in the world. Its one segment of a larger story, and its allowed to play by its own set of rules for its part of it, but it also needs to serve the rest of that larger story in the end.
The OT has been nostalgia massaged into a somewhat cohesive 6 1/2 hour epic, people don't spend much time focusing on the individual parts of it anymore. ESB was very much its own animal that was at odds with the other 2 films in the OT, particularly ANH, and each of those films played by their own set of rules that distinguish themselves from the whole. They worked on their own and as part of a whole.
TLJ is a 2 1/2 hour film with its own specific agenda within the larger framework, and that agenda won't be cheapened when the next film comes along. It doesn't change the thematic points that TLJ makes during its runtime if certain things get changed up later. If anything TLJ itself has shown us, turnabout is fair play.
EDIT: I guess the main point that I'm trying to make is, while I'm not attached like grim death to how I want to see IX play out, don't be surprised to see certain things in TLJ walked back for dramatic purposes. The more disingenuous parts of the fanbase will say that JJ had to go in after the fact and "fix" something that was actually probably the plan all along.
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This reminds me of people defending ep7's plot holes and loose hanging plot threads saying ep8 will fix them, like it was all part of some grand master-plan. There is no plan. They're just throwing stuff at the wall. Sometimes inconsistent writing by multiple directors who don't seem to share a vision is just inconsistent writing.
Lol you keep saying this but the irony is that you're the fanboy defending some nonexistent plan when they've been explicitly clear that there is none. It's just going to be fixes. Even JJ has said this.
Yes, just like the OT! It was written and directed by George Lucas, Irvin Kershner, Richard Marquand and Lawrence Kasdan. Now you're getting it!
Leia became Luke's sister when Lucas wanted to get out of the game and end it with ROTJ. See how this works?
Most of these edits are completely pointless. The edits that fix the pacing are fine but why edit out the caretakers? Why edit out the sound of coins rustling inside of BB8? Why the hell edit out Kylo telling Rey that her parents aren't shit? The only edit I'm really on board with is the phone call joke as it was the only truly awful joke in the movie imo.
The OT making dumb storytelling decisions doesn't make the ST making dumber storytelling decisions any less dumb. But you keep telling yourself that there's some Grand message and master plan to these movies I guess.
Something I don't hear brought up often enough post TLJ is Lucas' reaction to the first cut of ESB. He HATED Kershner and Kasdan's vision, blew his stack and tried in vain to edit it into something more in line with what he wanted.
Based on that anecdote, can you imagine the film we would have gotten if Lucas had just made it himself? It's almost like having multiple unique voices with their own ideas makes for a better series.
It also contradicts the whitewashing of Lucas' legacy as some kind of monolithic wunderkind of Palpatine like proportions who knew exactly what he wanted every step of the way. I would have hoped that the PT put that idea to bed, but...
Based on that anecdote, can you imagine the film we would have gotten if Lucas had just made it himself? It's almost like having multiple unique voices with their own ideas makes for a better series.
It also contradicts the whitewashing of Lucas' legacy as some kind of monolithic wunderkind of Palpatine like proportions who knew exactly what he wanted every step of the way. I would have hoped that the PT put that idea to bed, but...
I don't agree. You see Finns skiff speeder desintegrating while he does it. Everybody tells him it's a foolish atempt that won't work. Rose saves him from needlesly sacrificing himself for maybe a dent in the ram. And even if he destroys it, there are still all those AT-AT's to blast the door eventually. Finn sacrificing himself wouldn't change the outcome for the Resistance. Rose saving him teaches him and us, that sometimes it's better to not engage and regroup, to fight another day. Or in other words: to save what we love. That's also what Poe learns during the movie...
I think you are perceiving the exact opposite point I am trying to make. Everything in Star Wars has always been made up as it goes along. Every revelation or twist in the OT was created on the back of wiggle room afforded by story of the prior film(s) in the series. Sometimes that wiggle room is overestimated (Leia would not have kissed Luke like that in ESB if the plan then was to make them siblings)
I am just pointing out the visible wiggle room that Rian Johnson made in this film for IX and laughing about the hubris and impatience of a "fan" who thinks that they know best.
Did that scene really make some people that uncomfortable? LOL
What was it that made people uncomfortable or not like it? I mean, even Finn didn't know what to do with it...but it's fine if Rose cares for / has a crush on / loves Finn.
Was it because he's black, because she's Asian, because love / kisses are icky? Because Finn is supposed to have a thing for someone else?
Anyone remember the Han/Luke/Leia love triangle...before Luke realized that was his sister?! X-D
I don't get the problem with it. She thinks she is dying, she says what she feels...Finn reacts (his face) accordingly. (shrug)
It's like they were actually trying to make their point on why TLJ is not very good, but then they just go full stupid fandom with "It laughs at Star Wars".
Some edits are ok though, they may improve pacing but bleh, most of them are in "no fun allowed" territory.
And the Hyperspace Ram makes total sense when you actually know Star Wars lore.
Yeah, Leia's survival was not very good in execution though
Some edits are ok though, they may improve pacing but bleh, most of them are in "no fun allowed" territory.
And the Hyperspace Ram makes total sense when you actually know Star Wars lore.
Yeah, Leia's survival was not very good in execution though
Nah, having just watched it he specifically says they're dead on Jakku somewhere.
Some of the edits are solid, and then some get into the weird fan nitpick stuff that seems pointless (a crate moving?)
I think there's no way to get around some of the stuff they're trying to change, though, such as Finn's suicide run and Rose's response. It's awkward and terrible and at odds with basically all of Star Wars up to that point, but it was an intended theme and you can't really cut it out cleanly (unlike the Canto Bight stuff which can be excised pretty quickly.)
I think the problem there is that it's narratively and thematically at odds with the rest of the franchise, and even parts of the movie itself (where Rose's sister takes out the Dreadnought.) I think the fact that Rose kisses him also makes it come off a lot less as "we need to live to fight another day" and "I'm fine letting everyone else die if I get my love interest". I think without it, the scene would play a lot better.
Of course the fact that Finn apparently doesn't think about flying to the side of the beam before lining up the killshot, and then no one bothers shooting at Finn or Rose as they truck it a mile back to the base makes the entire sequence even more goofy.
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Most of the cuts were superfluous in nature and would make rewatches much more palatable for me, but removing the "pauper's grave on Jakku" line doesn't make any sense.
The scope and scale of TLJ actually is really small and it gets smaller and smaller with each ship being destroyed. Remove the Canto trip cause it really does add nothing to the overall story and how much it was padding out of the time of the film is noticeable. Seriously you can just lift it out of the movie and the rest of the film largely still happens and could fill around two episodes of Clone Wars/Rebels. In fact it might be better cause it would be much leaner.
Honestly I still feel what should have been done in the film is instead of the Canto nonsense (which I really do feel was done only to setup up RJ's own films which is why it feels so out of place with the rest of the film) you could have had Holdo interacting with the was left of the Republic. Maybe had Finn and Rose either tagging along for some reason and push them more into an advisor role, especially with Finn's inside knowledge of the First Order. Trying to get the Republic and the rest of the First Order free systems to give open support to the Resistance. Give an actually shape and feel to the rest of the galaxy. Show Holdo convincing many people, see who opposed her, dive more into her friendship with Leia. Then at the end she shows up with a new fleet that causes the First Order and Kylo to retreat. Keep the Kylo, Leia, Luke, Rey, etc stuff largely the same though. As she was used I feel Laura Dern was wasted and she could have been used so much better and Holdo given a LOT more importance instead of her dying the way she did.
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TLJ is not a perfect film, but its pretty damn good. It doesn't need a fan edit
Criticism I get:
- Space Leia. Would be just a brief cringe and less painful if real life circumstances were different. Too much of the movie hinged on Leia being in a coma for most of the duration, so I suppose there was no way to fix this.
- Canto Bight/middle of the film has a soft belly, its 5 minutes too long. Go to the bathroom, grab a beer. In terms of needing an editor, it still pales in comparison to the never ending Tatooine sequence in TPM
Criticism I don't get:
- Sense of humor - this series always had cheesy humor. The PT was measures worse at it.
- Rose is fine. I don't really know what to say here. Her line at the end about saving what you love, aside from its relevance to this film's own message might also be aimed at the fans - "this film went scorched earth on your idea of a Star Wars film, but IX will save what you love about it"
- Old man Luke - just picture how much Luke changed in the 3-4 years of the OT, just imagine adding 30 years of life to the stack. Look at the #metoo world that we live in - your heroes WILL disappoint you someday. In the end, he went out making the ultimate OT style Jedi move - victory through non-violence. This is whiplash from the PT idea of having Yoda getting into lightsaber battles and whatnot, but his "win" here is a parallel to ROTJ. He beat Vader and the Emperor by throwing down his weapon.
Criticism I get:
- Space Leia. Would be just a brief cringe and less painful if real life circumstances were different. Too much of the movie hinged on Leia being in a coma for most of the duration, so I suppose there was no way to fix this.
- Canto Bight/middle of the film has a soft belly, its 5 minutes too long. Go to the bathroom, grab a beer. In terms of needing an editor, it still pales in comparison to the never ending Tatooine sequence in TPM
Criticism I don't get:
- Sense of humor - this series always had cheesy humor. The PT was measures worse at it.
- Rose is fine. I don't really know what to say here. Her line at the end about saving what you love, aside from its relevance to this film's own message might also be aimed at the fans - "this film went scorched earth on your idea of a Star Wars film, but IX will save what you love about it"
- Old man Luke - just picture how much Luke changed in the 3-4 years of the OT, just imagine adding 30 years of life to the stack. Look at the #metoo world that we live in - your heroes WILL disappoint you someday. In the end, he went out making the ultimate OT style Jedi move - victory through non-violence. This is whiplash from the PT idea of having Yoda getting into lightsaber battles and whatnot, but his "win" here is a parallel to ROTJ. He beat Vader and the Emperor by throwing down his weapon.
I think the film obviously wants us to understand Holdo's position, but the lack of time actually spent with her is why so many people agree with the mutineers. There's no reason she couldn't share her plan, and the fact she doesn't with a crew that is clearly disintegrating shows that she's just not a good leader, full stop. She's mostly just an obstacle for Poe and a concerned face in reaction shots. For such a long movie a lot of characters don't actually get much in the way of character work.
I agree with you in case that wasn't clear. Just pointing out that the knife shot was a deleted scene
I myself disagree with Rose's line being removed, because it summarizes pretty much the entire theme of the movie that impetuous actions have dire consequences while protecting others eventually work out. It's not just a line relevant to Rose protecting Finn from making a futile sacrifice, but also Luke and Poe's character arcs which are largely defined by their brash actions being costly and learning from them in the end. The point the movie was trying to make is that protecting others generally turns out better in the end even if you miss out on short term goals and Rose is a voice of reason meant to teach this.
That really is one of the more weird things about the film. I remember leaving the film the first time wondering if there was entire plot thread removed from the film. I was wondering about this while I watched actually and that rarely happens. Was there a spy they were worried about and that was why they were being tracked? Was there no one there originally to talk about the tech that was being used to track them and that was added after the fact? Was that the cause of mis-trust in letting other people know the actual plan of escape? Cause Holdo's actions made no sense as presented in the film unless there was something else cut out and removed and they tried to make alter her scenes to be apart of something else. The end result is her actions are largely the setup to drive Finn and Rose to the Canto stuff which in turn adds nothing in the end. Itself feels like it was maybe added on.
It's not that hard to grasp - Holdo was under no obligation to explain her plan to a recently demoted pilot who got a sizable chunk of the fleet decimated because he thought that he knew best. It's all in the movie. By the end of the film, Poe shows he has absorbed the lessons that he learned from Leia and Holdo, the failure of his "coup" is an important part of his arc.
*Rey wakes up on Jakku and realizes it was all a dream
*Luke is married to The Force and his child is Anakin Skywalker, reborn
I think at this point people simply don't want to get it. It's been explained enough times and enough places.
Yep. Poe had proven that he was not fit for responsibility, so it would make sense that he wouldn't be informed of a plan that he could end up sabotaging. The movie probably could've stated it more explicitly but I don't think it's too far-fetched to infer.
Eh, I get what he's trying to achieve with the edits but some of these edits can basically become fully useless as soon as the next movie drops and directly ties to something that they cut. I feel these fan edits shouldn't be done until a trilogy is done. It'll end up being disjointed otherwise.
Also Rey's parents being dead and unimportant was powerful for me and in a way a good homage to Vader's origins.
Also Rey's parents being dead and unimportant was powerful for me and in a way a good homage to Vader's origins.
Not a horrible edit really, I like a lot of the changes. I would have liked the Phasma/Finn deleted scenes put back in though.
It does give Rey more context and backstory. Without that, Kylo Ren ends up more developed than Rey.
People do it all the time with the prequels.
I forever will love ep 3 for its perfect cheese
My edit
-Finn is cut from the movie, explained that he died at hospital after first movie
-Any dumb arguments Poe had with the purple captain is removed
-Rei joins Snoke
-Leia dies in space walk
-Luke just stares into horizon at end and doesn't disappear
-Poe dies
-Finn is cut from the movie, explained that he died at hospital after first movie
-Any dumb arguments Poe had with the purple captain is removed
-Rei joins Snoke
-Leia dies in space walk
-Luke just stares into horizon at end and doesn't disappear
-Poe dies
Yeah, that's what the movie tells us sure. But when Poe held Holdo at gunpoint it made no sense for her not to tell him to stop the mutiny from happening. A mutiny that would jeopardize her plan. She had to choose between throwing away her plan and let Poe rebel ( and teach him the "lesson" of blindly following orders and authority) or tell him what the plan was and stop that nonesense. And couldn't be misstrusting him THAT much if ad the end she says that she liked him.
Most of these edits are minor, honestly. For the most part it seems like they give the film a slightly better tonal consistency by trimming some of the jokes that either didn't land or went on too long.
But admitting that the film could be improved would apparently be an assault on God Rian. Can't have that.
But admitting that the film could be improved would apparently be an assault on God Rian. Can't have that.
"⁃ Removed the detail from Kylo Ren that Rey's parents are buried in the Jakku desert, as this seems at odds with the vision we saw in The Force Awakens."
Kylo was possibly lying. He was trying to get Rey to join him. She stated her worst fear and he just went with it. Wouldn't be the first time someone lied about parentage in SW for selfish reasons.
Kylo was possibly lying. He was trying to get Rey to join him. She stated her worst fear and he just went with it. Wouldn't be the first time someone lied about parentage in SW for selfish reasons.
Wouldn't even be the first time Kylo bent the truth in that same movie
Yeah I always interpreted that as Kylo gaslighting Rey. I mean chances are her parents were nobodies (at least I hope), but there he was trying to say whatever he could to push Rey over the edge.
She's still a terrible leader. If a large contingent of your crew is willing to mutiny because they've lost trust in your leadership ability, that's the leader's problem. Poe's insubordination is irrelevant, and the lesson learned is "sometimes we should live to fight another day", which is disjointed from the whole 'place blind trust in authority figure we've never heard of' bit.
What is with this terrible appeal to authority fallacy? Am I to understand you have never thought a film, novel, or piece of mass media could be improved? Because most of them are made by professionals. Professionals made the Star Wars prequels, professionals make all the terrible films as well as the good ones that come out of Hollywood. That doesn't make you immune to criticism, and it's worthless to try and use that as a blanket dismissal of someone's criticisms.
