i'd criticise that entire scene no matter who it was.
Rather watch Anakin talk about sand.
i'd criticise that entire scene no matter who it was.
The big issue is just that Rey having special parents adds nothing to her as a character, and the theme of "anyone can rise to greatness, regardless of where they come from" is a better core theme and lesson for little kids than everyone needing to have a special mom or dad to be important.
I would've been happy with the reveal if Kylo never mentioned it at all and all we got was what she saw in the cave. The important part is Rey not being related to some person we already know, because reversing that and giving her a familiar parent cheapens her character and shrinks a universe that's already too interconnected and small for its own good as it is.
I do find the post TLJ discussion of the question of Rey's parentage interesting. It mostly seems to commonly bounce between being called an inconsistency with Rian doing what he wanted to do for the sake of shock value, or that they just flew to some other part of the planet.
However you look at those arguments, it involves you, the audience, taking a homicidal maniac's words at face value at a pivotal point in the film where he's trying to get into the protaganist's head. He doesn't even say it, he makes her say it, and then adds his own flourishes to the answer that she gave herself.
Too bad fanboys will say that JJ is "fixing" TLJ where this was likely the plan all along when the time comes.
EDIT: I guess the main point that I'm trying to make is, while I'm not attached like grim death to how I want to see IX play out, don't be surprised to see certain things in TLJ walked back for dramatic purposes. The more disingenuous parts of the fanbase will say that JJ had to go in after the fact and "fix" something that was actually probably the plan all along.
This reminds me of people defending ep7's plot holes and loose hanging plot threads saying ep8 will fix them, like it was all part of some grand master-plan. There is no plan. They're just throwing stuff at the wall. Sometimes inconsistent writing by multiple directors who don't seem to share a vision is just inconsistent writing.
Yes, just like the OT! It was written and directed by George Lucas, Irvin Kershner, Richard Marquand and Lawrence Kasdan. Now you're getting it!
Leia became Luke's sister when Lucas wanted to get out of the game and end it with ROTJ. See how this works?
What is Finn 'needlessly' destroying or sacrificing himself? He's trying to stop the ram from blowing up the door and saving the resistance. That is on point to the very theme being pushed. Just because Poe says he won't make it doesn't mean it couldn't have been done. We'll never know either way of course, because Rose stops him with NO ALTERNATIVE other than letting the ram blow up the last defense of the resistance.
That's not letting hope survive, thats putting it in jeopardy for selfish reasons.
The OT making dumb storytelling decisions doesn't make the ST making dumber storytelling decisions any less dumb. But you keep telling yourself that there's some Grand message and master plan to these movies I guess.
The only huge issue is the hyperspace ram. Leia's survival is sketchy but I wouldn't make it a big deal.
The rest is wishy washy space wizard stuff. I may think that Force Skyping and Force Holograms are incredibly stupid and uninteresting applications of the Force, but that doesn't make them less valid or believable.
This is kind of whatever
Though Ren says they're burried in a desert. I dont think he ever specifies Jakku.
I don't agree. You see Finns skiff speeder desintegrating while he does it. Everybody tells him it's a foolish atempt that won't work. Rose saves him from needlesly sacrificing himself for maybe a dent in the ram. And even if he destroys it, there are still all those AT-AT's to blast the door eventually. Finn sacrificing himself wouldn't change the outcome for the Resistance. Rose saving him teaches him and us, that sometimes it's better to not engage and regroup, to fight another day. Or in other words: to save what we love. That's also what Poe learns during the movie...
That's the biggest problem. The biggest issues with TLJ (the space chase plot and general misusage of characters) can't be fixed by removing stuff. You need MORE footage, you need better storylines for Poe and Leia and expecially Finn, you need more screentime for Rose.
If you start cutting the bad in TLJ and have nothing to replace it with you end up with a Clone Wars episode.
The scope and scale of TLJ actually is really small and it gets smaller and smaller with each ship being destroyed. Remove the Canto trip cause it really does add nothing to the overall story and how much it was padding out of the time of the film is noticeable. Seriously you can just lift it out of the movie and the rest of the film largely still happens and could fill around two episodes of Clone Wars/Rebels. In fact it might be better cause it would be much leaner.
Honestly I still feel what should have been done in the film is instead of the Canto nonsense (which I really do feel was done only to setup up RJ's own films which is why it feels so out of place with the rest of the film) you could have had Holdo interacting with the was left of the Republic. Maybe had Finn and Rose either tagging along for some reason and push them more into an advisor role, especially with Finn's inside knowledge of the First Order. Trying to get the Republic and the rest of the First Order free systems to give open support to the Resistance. Give an actually shape and feel to the rest of the galaxy. Show Holdo convincing many people, see who opposed her, dive more into her friendship with Leia. Then at the end she shows up with a new fleet that causes the First Order and Kylo to retreat. Keep the Ryo, Leia, Luke, Rey, etc stuff largely the same though. As she was used I feel Laura Dern was wasted and she could have been used so much better and Holdo given a LOT more importance instead of her dying the way she did.
I agree with you in case that wasn't clear. Just pointing out that the knife shot was a deleted sceneIt's all very Star Wars-y. Just because some might look ridiculous doesn't mean movie shouldn't have them. May I remind the court that we spent a whole planet on annoying gungans and teddy bears. Porgs and those caretakers are nothing compared to that.
That really is one of the more weird things about the film. I remember leaving the film the first time wondering if there was entire plot thread removed from the film. I was wondering about this while I watched actually and that rarely happens. Was there a spy they were worried about and that was why they were being tracked? Was there no one there originally to talk about the tech that was being used to track them and that was added after the fact? Was that the cause of mis-trust in letting other people know the actual plan of escape? Cause Holdo's actions made no sense as presented in the film unless there was something else cut out and removed and they tried to make alter her scenes to be apart of something else. The end result is her actions are largely the setup to drive Finn and Rose to the Canto stuff which in turn adds nothing in the end. Itself feels like it was maybe added on.I think the film obviously wants us to understand Holdo's position, but the lack of time actually spent with her is why so many people agree with the mutineers. There's no reason she couldn't share her plan, and the fact she doesn't with a crew that is clearly disintegrating shows that she's just not a good leader, full stop. She's mostly just an obstacle for Poe and a concerned face in reaction shots. For such a long movie a lot of characters don't actually get much in the way of character work.
That really is one of the more weird things about the film. I remember leaving the film the first time wondering if there was entire plot thread removed from the film. Was there a spy they were worried about and that was hold they were being tracked? Was that the cause of mis-trust in letting other people know the actual plan of escape? Cause Holdo's actions made no sense as presented in the film unless there was something else cut out and removed and they tried to make alter her scenes to be apart of something else. It's largely setup to drive Finn and Rose to the Canto stuff which in turn adds nothing in the end.
*Rey wakes up on Jakku and realizes it was all a dreamMy edit would probably leave the running time and just about 45 min.
Jk
Kind of.
I think at this point people simply don't want to get it. It's been explained enough times and enough places.It's not that hard to grasp - Holdo was under no obligation to explain her plan to a recently demoted pilot who got a sizable chunk of the fleet decimated because he thought that he knew best. It's all in the movie. By the end of the film, Poe shows he has absorbed the lessons that he learned from Leia and Holdo, the failure of his "coup" is an important part of his arc.
Yep. Poe had proven that he was not fit for responsibility, so it would make sense that he wouldn't be informed of a plan that he could end up sabotaging. The movie probably could've stated it more explicitly but I don't think it's too far-fetched to infer.It's not that hard to grasp - Holdo was under no obligation to explain her plan to a recently demoted pilot who got a sizable chunk of the fleet decimated because he thought that he knew best. It's all in the movie. By the end of the film, Poe shows he has absorbed the lessons that he learned from Leia and Holdo, the failure of his "coup" is an important part of his arc.
The big issue is just that Rey having special parents adds nothing to her as a character, and the theme of "anyone can rise to greatness, regardless of where they come from" is a better core theme and lesson for little kids than everyone needing to have a special mom or dad to be important.
I would've been happy with the reveal if Kylo never mentioned it at all and all we got was what she saw in the cave. The important part is Rey not being related to some person we already know, because reversing that and giving her a familiar parent cheapens her character and shrinks a universe that's already too interconnected and small for its own good as it is.
People do it all the time with the prequels.you gotta love it when fans think they know better than the professionals that actually work on the film. reminds me TLJ dropped, some forum users were giving "tips" to Rian on how to write or what it should've been instead. smh
I think we've cyberbullied LiquidSnake enough by now.*Rey wakes up on Jakku and realizes it was all a dream
*Luke is married to The Force and his child is Anakin Skywalker, reborn
It's not that hard to grasp - Holdo was under no obligation to explain her plan to a recently demoted pilot who got a sizable chunk of the fleet decimated because he thought that he knew best. It's all in the movie. By the end of the film, Poe shows he has absorbed the lessons that he learned from Leia and Holdo, the failure of his "coup" is an important part of his arc.
Wouldn't even be the first time Kylo bent the truth in that same movie"⁃ Removed the detail from Kylo Ren that Rey's parents are buried in the Jakku desert, as this seems at odds with the vision we saw in The Force Awakens."
Kylo was possibly lying. He was trying to get Rey to join him. She stated her worst fear and he just went with it. Wouldn't be the first time someone lied about parentage in SW for selfish reasons.
Wouldn't even be the first time Kylo bent the truth in that same movie
⁃ After Rose saves Finn, removed her line about not "fighting what we hate" and "saving what we love."
It's not that hard to grasp - Holdo was under no obligation to explain her plan to a recently demoted pilot who got a sizable chunk of the fleet decimated because he thought that he knew best. It's all in the movie. By the end of the film, Poe shows he has absorbed the lessons that he learned from Leia and Holdo, the failure of his "coup" is an important part of his arc.
you gotta love it when fans think they know better than the professionals that actually work on the film. reminds me TLJ dropped, some forum users were giving "tips" to Rian on how to write or what it should've been instead. smh
The End.*Rey wakes up on Jakku and realizes it was all a dream
*Luke is married to The Force and his child is Anakin Skywalker, reborn
What