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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DT2 | News, Site Updates, and Speculation | Welcome to the Echo Chamber
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Honestly this. It wouldn't surprise me if one of the big issues was getting TPC to agree to Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur when they are decidedly not mons that TPC would care about promoting right now. That really sounds like the "twisting arms" Sakurai mentioned he had to do to get everyone back. Maybe a bit of "if I can't have them, you don't get a Gen 7 mon" kind of thing?
Another thing I figure I'll bring up while we're talking about it is that they keep mentioning Snake being back by popular demand. While I don't think Snake actually won the ballot, I think the real reason popular demand keeps being mentioned with him is because he's a character Sakurai probably never would've bothered to get back otherwise. Even with Konami being easier than we thought, Snake is still a third party from a company that fired his friend, who was the only reason Snake happened in the first place. I figure, had there not been outcry for him, Sakurai probably would've just ignored Snake like he did in Smash 4.
Kojima Productions' FOXHOUND logo is rad, but I feel like the exclamation point is more closely tied to Snake's role in his games. Kinda prefer it over the old one tbh (heresy, I know).
Just from having worked on minor creative work with established IPs for advertising, I think the team has difficulty with changing most characters. Not impossible work, but it's guaranteed that they have to go through a difficult process each time, even with internal teams. I have to go through a million steps just to be able to have my team tweak a character's pose, so I can only imagine what the smash team has to go through to make a unique 3D model.
I was about to say yes but actually, no!
https://www.nintendo.com/amiibo/detail/shadow-mewtwo-amiibo-card-pokken-tournament
Seemingly only works with pokken tournament
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I was talking about Brawl era but not right now.
I already know and I felt that Pokemon Company is a boring answer for me at least since there are several things that doesn't make sense at the end, like lack of shiny colors. I'm still grateful that Pokemon Company is allowing us to able to play Pokemon characters in Smash Bros.
That's true. When the roster become bigger and it would become more troublesome to talk to all IP creators and owners to see they are willing to approve it or not. Also they still have to ask other companies for their permissions for certain attacks in Smash Bros.
Man, it's surreal enough to imagine to see 76+ characters in Smash Bros. (I'm counting the characters that have their names as well, like Alph and Koopalings)
Yet we are getting Let's Go Pikachu & Let's Go Eevee and Pokemon Go for those fans who still like Generation 1 Pokemon (Squirtle and Ivysaur). It's interesting how Sakurai always emphasized that Snake is back due to heavily demands (like three time) so Kojima should be happy to see his baby being back in Smash Bros tho.
Ah.
Yeah if Geno were first party then he'd probably have gotten in during Brawl.
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Yeah. Smash seems to be the only crossover they give any sort of leeway for.
Wouldn't Sakurai have been negotiating with Konami to use Snake around 2016 or so?
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Smash 64 was in development at about the same time as The Pokemon Company was founded, so I think it's been grandfathered into a lot of stuff that TPC would otherwise be more picky about.
Takamaru the character that Sakurai excluded because he's unknown in the West.
Geno was unknown in most of the West too until 2008 - and considering that was a Virtual Console release, one would have to really question how much of an impact that release made in Europe.
Basically if you were in PAL land, everything about Super Mario RPG was blown out of proportion.
People used to big up the Axem Rangers I swear, what were they? a single boss fight?
People used to big up the Axem Rangers I swear, what were they? a single boss fight?
It was because it was the first Mario game that had some actual world building, playable Bowser and the Mario RPG combo system.
Much like I have heard of Takamaru. But I don't think Sakurai really cares for the knowledge of a Nintendo-know-it-all.
Ha ha yeah. During my recent playthrough I was quite surprised how little presence the Axem Rangers really have. They just appear out of nowhere (at least some other bosses had a little presence before their battle) and you beat them.
I get that.
But boy it was like "oh, how quaint" after PM64, TTYD and M&L
Basically I'm saying Fawful > those goobers
Probably, but that would still be somewhat fresh off of MGSV, which released late 2015, and even closer to the infamous incident at The Game Awards where Konami's public goodwill took a massive nosedive. I get the impression that Snake was either a hard nut to crack during negotiation, or they negotiated him much later when the proverbial dust settled. Either way, I don't think getting him back was easy, especially since for a while there was a big question mark as to what Konami was even planning to do with their legacy franchises.
So Sakurai doesn't care about my encyclopedic knowledge of Nintendo characters?!
He should read our posts to think that Ayumi, Lip, Takamaru, Sukapon, Sablé, etc are common knowledge in the west.
I kind of wonder about the hypothetical world where Geno was first party. On the one hand, he really was popular when his game came out and as such may have made it into more things than just a cameo in SSS. On the other hand, characters from the Mario RPGs generally stick to their RPGs and aren't allowed to cameo in the main line games or even sports games.
Mallow is the better character. But because he was portrayed as a cry baby nobody seems to like him.
His story was pretty cool. Ribbit.
His story was pretty cool. Ribbit.
I think part of what influenced Geno's fandom is that he's a bit of a forbidden fruit. He's owned by Square so we'll never see him again, but what if.
Mallow has a pretty bad design.
Society failed when the community decided to bandwagon for Geno and not the best Mario partner of all time!
Society failed when the community decided to bandwagon for Geno and not the best Mario partner of all time!
But I would be fine with Geno too.
Honestly, the need to know who's who is such a weird measurement when you think about it.
-With Joe Public I can safely say 90% of the roster is unknowns.
-Then, you consider the typical gamer audience and, even then, the only reason any of them have heard of half the cast is because of Smash Bros.
-Therefore, the person who actually knows who all the characters are is also likely to have heard of characters like Takamaru.
This is especially true in today's world where the Internet is awash with gaming knowledge. Pick a game and someone has likely made a wiki for it. During Melee's day info on Fire Emblem probably wasn't too common to find in English, so I could see why someone like Takamaru could have been a problem, but now I doubt there's a single game someone couldn't easily learn about from a quick Google.
-With Joe Public I can safely say 90% of the roster is unknowns.
-Then, you consider the typical gamer audience and, even then, the only reason any of them have heard of half the cast is because of Smash Bros.
-Therefore, the person who actually knows who all the characters are is also likely to have heard of characters like Takamaru.
This is especially true in today's world where the Internet is awash with gaming knowledge. Pick a game and someone has likely made a wiki for it. During Melee's day info on Fire Emblem probably wasn't too common to find in English, so I could see why someone like Takamaru could have been a problem, but now I doubt there's a single game someone couldn't easily learn about from a quick Google.
It depends on who developed Mario RPG. If it was an IS game like the Paper Marios, yes, I could see it getting ignored. If it had been developed by EAD though, you'd probably see characters from there popping up all over the franchise.
Is there even enough Belmont's to do that?
I don't think most people care beyond Simon, Trevor and Richter.
A few alt colors are enough
That "for a while" is still going on. It's still a question mark. Konami is still very challenging to work with.
If Geno gets in, would he be considered his own rep rather than a Mario rep? I'd assume so due to technically being third party, but it would feel weird considering his only true appearances have been in Mario games.
Was? He still is except for enthusiast forums like this.
He went from literally no one has heard of him to fairly unknown.
I'd assume that in order for Geno to stay Geno, it still would have been SE, just with Nintendo retaining the rights in full after the game was made. Sort of like Diddy's situation now.
Here's a fun fact.
I always thought Geno was a Nintendo character until Smash 4 speculation threads at Gaf told me otherwise.
"But he's in a Mario game" as you can see I didn't know much about anything back then.
I always thought Geno was a Nintendo character until Smash 4 speculation threads at Gaf told me otherwise.
"But he's in a Mario game" as you can see I didn't know much about anything back then.
I brought this before here, but it's unlikely. The series really doesn't fit with the other third party choices in how iconic or big with the general public it is and we don't have a new entry coming anytime soon.
I think a lot of support for him in the early days was under the assumption he was a Nintendo character. If they had known you'd probably have seen people not bother.
I think because people want FF IV or VI representation first? Don't know, BD has great music tho. That final boss theme is great.
nah. I still think people would ask just as much for him. It was during Brawl where he really picked up steam and that game had Snake and Sonic. I think people would've had the same thoughts as me and not understand how much work it takes to bring a third party. Now I know how much of a pain it is to do that, but little kid me thought game development was easy.
Hell, Mario RPGs rarely even get unique characters at all these days.
I'd be curious to see a survey where "average gamers" were shown all the Smash characters and asked if they knew the character and where they know them from.
I can imagine a lot of the results being stuff like "That's Fox and Falco. Uh... I know them from Smash Bros. I don't know what series they're from."
I agree. We didn't know about Fire Emblem back in the day and now everyone is arguing over who is Best Girl. Give Takamaru a modern redesign and boom, new game on the way.
What if
I think he'd have a star as his Emblem, but he's a Mario character so they might as well give him the mushroom.
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You're wrong. Many people already acknowledged that he's under Square-Enix, and even use copyright information from SuperStar Saga as their evidence.
Do we know for sure Geno is a Square Enix character past that one copyright notice?
Like, it seems weird Nintendo would sign off on characters being owned by another company. They seem to own Rare created characters in DK and Star Fox. Just can't imagine what benefit it is to anyone for Square to "own" those characters.
Like, it seems weird Nintendo would sign off on characters being owned by another company. They seem to own Rare created characters in DK and Star Fox. Just can't imagine what benefit it is to anyone for Square to "own" those characters.
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Yeah, all the characters made up for that game are owned by Square.
Apparently Paper Mario was supposed to be a direct sequel before Nintendo figured it out, and by then their relationship with Square was heavily damaged.
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