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Kotaku: GW2 writers fired after Twitter argument. GG pressured firing.
- Thread starter Don Fluffles
- Start date
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Absurd that this is being twisted into some GamerGate anti-women nonsense. They may have played a part, but don't give them the credit.
It's standard business to severely employees who disparage the company's image either directly or indirectly. The "straw that broke the camel's back" in these situations usually is the trigger that gets the employee fired; there's usually some amount of stuff going on in the background the public doesn't know about.
I know of one prominent Blizzard employee who was let go because of a snarky forum post he made.
I myself was reprimanded and asked to give a public apology when I called a teammate "worthless" in a match of LOL.
Plenty of other examples I've encountered.
It's standard business to severely employees who disparage the company's image either directly or indirectly. The "straw that broke the camel's back" in these situations usually is the trigger that gets the employee fired; there's usually some amount of stuff going on in the background the public doesn't know about.
I know of one prominent Blizzard employee who was let go because of a snarky forum post he made.
I myself was reprimanded and asked to give a public apology when I called a teammate "worthless" in a match of LOL.
Plenty of other examples I've encountered.
Unless there's more context than what's in the op then yeah she deserves to be fired. The GG people are trying to take credit for it because of course they will but in truth she brought that on herself.
..But men also get that. You think men leading studios like Bungie or Bioware are not getting suggestions 24/7 on their twitter without even asking (she asked for an AMA btw)? the only difference is they didn't go ballistic on a customer for suggesting something to them politely. Acting condescending to someone like that was unnecessary and if you're getting pissed to small shit like this then don't post on Twitter or otherwise expect to lose your job.
Ultimately, it's up to the company. I think it's a bit much, but after just a peek at some of her past tweets, she's a bit needlessly belligerent, imo. I'm not even talking about the tb stuff either (I'll be the first to tell it like it is in regard to him as well). They were certainly within their rights.
Her tweet about TB was totally fine and I'm sure she isn't the only one in the company that feels that way.
The people you named just happened to be running at the position where they get to decide what's okay to be said on twitter and what isn't for their respective companies. They aren't someone who just got hired, a more fitting example would be the guy who got fired from MS early in the generation for making some smug tweet.
I dunno that shit might not be especially rude but it does feel patronizing and condescending
Stop this shit. Read what you wrote. Is this really what kind of person you are?
He pretty much grabs news bites and gives his uninformed and unresearched opinion on it. Sometimes starting shit. Just extremely low quality content imo.
He isn't a bad person afaik. So it's not like I'll side-eye if you like his content. :p
Keep telling yourself that.
What company would keep someone around that shits all over their customer base.
I see the superiority complex from the Off Topic question has continued on this site. Lame. I see plenty of banned racists on EtcetEra actually. If you really think there's a huge divergence between two subforums I have two eyes that will roll for you.
He's far more toxic to people but people love his games so he gets a pass for whatever reason.
Also, we don't actually know what happened within ArenaNet when they approached them about this issue. Perhaps there were other issues with the employees or they wouldn't back down on their overreaction.
All we have is the original Twitter thread and the announcement of the firings to go off. There's a lot we don't know about what went down at ArenaNet.
All we have is the original Twitter thread and the announcement of the firings to go off. There's a lot we don't know about what went down at ArenaNet.
I'm happy to see mostly reasonable responses in here but completely baffled why half of liberal games Twitter is still in an uproar about this. She acted completely rude and unprofessional and Twitter is not a private forum. The YouTuber basically immediately backed down and didn't fuel any of the shit he had thrown back at him.
It's clear enough from seeing a handful of her past Twitter interactions that her general attitude sucks and I very much doubt she would respond constructively to any kind of attempt at reprimand (or suggestion of an apology) by her employers.
It's clear enough from seeing a handful of her past Twitter interactions that her general attitude sucks and I very much doubt she would respond constructively to any kind of attempt at reprimand (or suggestion of an apology) by her employers.
Sure, but if that happened Arena should have said that and the firing would be ok. Everyone in this particular situation overreacted.
feel free to act like this to your customers at your place of employment
see how long you last
Fuck Gamergate but if you read the thread of tweets she was out of line and is they type of person that these GG aholes use to justify their existence.
They dont have to run 24/7 service. They can either respond kindly or not respond at all to fairly innocuous and well intentioned feedback. She chose to make her twitter account pubic and open to responses to her tweets.
How? The first sentence he said was a compliment to her. Then he voiced his opinion without saying that she was wrong. All he gave was an opinion. I don't know how he could of been more kind.
It's rude to say "well, I would use "basic dev knowledge" as a solution, as I think it would work better, I, who is not a game dev and doesn't have any experience in this area, feel this would work better and think you , who is actually a game dev, haven't considered it yet. ". There's no questions in that, it's patronising, and it acts like they have as much knowledge as the game dev. It's rude if you are doing it to a woman or a man, but let's not pretend that women don't get explained basic things about their job then men do.
they don't go ballistic because in the industry men are seen as the default. on a whole they aren't treated like they dont know anything.
have a conversation with any woman, but especially a woman who is knowledgeable and has a decade or more of experience and see what they say about being talked down to and patronized. I guarantee every single one will have more than one story about that.
now multiply that by the number of "Just asking questions" jackasses in gaming and you can see how it becomes exhausting and quite frankly infuriating.
Having a somewhat understandable overreaction to a single person is not shitting all over the customer base.
This situation is.......complicated. Her reaction was a bit shitty but it was informed by a problematic trend of women having to defend their ability to do their jobs from men. It's a real thing and women deal with it constantly. She overreacted, but it wasn't that bad.
The company's reaction was fucking stupid. She was fired because fans put pressure on them because she's a women and they want anyone like her out of the industry. The reaction to this situation was disproportional.
The company's reaction was fucking stupid. She was fired because fans put pressure on them because she's a women and they want anyone like her out of the industry. The reaction to this situation was disproportional.
No, it doesn't, at all.
Also, if you can't handle your shit, don't engage with players.
The fact that some of the critiques of her are way out of bounds doesn't mean that what she did was OK, rationale or appropriate when interacting with the community. The fact that she didn't ask for the interaction is not this damning smoking gun that she or Fries makes it out to be. Fans often reach out to creators in a similar way on Twitter, I don't think it needs to be seen as an attack, particularly when it was done in a fairly friendly and non-confrontational way.
And yes, I think Kamiya comes off as a huge asshole online.
And yes, I think Kamiya comes off as a huge asshole online.
Uh, no. That's not how a professional company works. ArenaNet didn't even mention their names in the statement, which is the correct way to do things. They absolutely should not be referencing internal disputes or other reasons - the only reason there was a statement at all was because this was a public, popular issue.
Any employee represents the business. This is a basic understanding.
This is what I referenced earlier:
Any employee represents the business. This is a basic understanding.
This is what I referenced earlier:
TotalBiscuit did help harass loads of people through GamerGate.
Any employee represents the business. This is a basic understanding.
This is what I referenced earlier:
Hadn't seen this before. How incredibly unprofessional, the only surprise in this story is that she wasn't fired sooner.
People like her do more harm to the cause than good. The guy who disagreed with her was being respectful and made a perfectly reasonable comment. Her reaction was to immediately flip out, pull the victim card, demean the commenters argument by attacking him based on her own insecurity and wasted no time insulting him and anyone else who would dare to speak.
And the reason why she did more harm is because she opened the door wide open for GG to jump all over this, to use it as more ammo for their bullshit.
She was immature and flat out wrong to do what she did.
As to why she was fired, "on the clock" or not, if you put yourself out there on social media and create a shitstorm around your company, you're taking a risk. It's way easier for AN to come to the logical conclusion that her unprofessional and uncalled for behavior towards a perfectly reasonable comment was grounds for termination. It'd be the same for me if I got on social media and started fights with people talking about the work my company does.
None of that excuses the past present or future harassment she might be subjected to. No one should have to endure that shit. But she needs to be able to take constructive criticism without flying off the handle.
There are women living under extreme oppression in this world. Not allowed to read, vote, or be educated. Women who are beaten and treated like property. They are the ones who should be getting our support and attention. Not people who act stupid on social media and get fired over it.
And the reason why she did more harm is because she opened the door wide open for GG to jump all over this, to use it as more ammo for their bullshit.
She was immature and flat out wrong to do what she did.
As to why she was fired, "on the clock" or not, if you put yourself out there on social media and create a shitstorm around your company, you're taking a risk. It's way easier for AN to come to the logical conclusion that her unprofessional and uncalled for behavior towards a perfectly reasonable comment was grounds for termination. It'd be the same for me if I got on social media and started fights with people talking about the work my company does.
None of that excuses the past present or future harassment she might be subjected to. No one should have to endure that shit. But she needs to be able to take constructive criticism without flying off the handle.
There are women living under extreme oppression in this world. Not allowed to read, vote, or be educated. Women who are beaten and treated like property. They are the ones who should be getting our support and attention. Not people who act stupid on social media and get fired over it.
Yeah, I do at least. I'd be fine with ArenaNet if they kept her as well. If an employee is acting up bringing shit to their company they can deal with her/him how they see fit.
She chose to tweet about the product she's involved in. Customers joined the conversation in a peaceful and respectful manner. She didn't have to respond at all. But she did. With blatant toxicity.
Let's not pretend that game devs have no agency when operating on Twitter. Because they do
Yep. Price was in the wrong here, does it mean she deserves to be fired from it? Probably not, but she definitely overstepped her bounds talking to the community like that.
Do people just willfully ignore her actual comments? It wasn't an AMA. Re-read the original tweet.
Lol. Incredible. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Are you seriously advocating Arena air all the dirty laundry on employees they fire? That's OK, but firing someone due to disciplinary issues isn't?
It's pretty simple isn't it? Don't be an asshat to your costumers is that really so hard to understand?
Imagine the outrage if a Western dev called their customers "foreign insects".
She had a history of doing such things and it appeared her actions was the final straw that broke the camels back in her getting fired. GG can try to take credit but they really didn't do jack all, it was her own damn fault.
What? I really can't blame people that were targets of a hate group that TB was a prominent member of to find the silver lining in his passing. It's not right, but it's understandable. As such I really don't believe it should be a factor in getting anyone fired.
Why would she tweet on a public forum without wanting to start a dialogue?
Any employee represents the business. This is a basic understanding.
This is what I referenced earlier:
While I think she was out of line with the situation that got her fired, I totally agree with the TB thing and folks shouldn't have pretend otherwise because he passed. I never wished him ill or anything else, but he wasn't a great person. I don't get you guys that come around always stanning for tb when people speak to his very real behaviors and that of his fanbase. Let the guy rest in peace if you really care all that much.
Yeah I don't envy devs in today's world really. If you have a twitter account you're basically on the clock 24/7 and always have to watch what you say. It really sucks but it is what it is I guess.
Her response was very shitty to a non hostile comment and very Jay Wilson-esque and probably deserve some kind of disciplinary action. Even Blizzard didn't outright fire him and swept Jay away for a year or 2 before he left. He probably got sent to the Hooli roof before getting bored and leaving. I do think firing the dude who went to bat for her was a tad much.
This dude's tweets is one of the nicest feedbacks I've read a gamer give to a dev... lol
After reading through the tweets, gender issues seems to be a scape goat here. I would also be fired if I were calling clients asshats on Twitter and clients started calling in to complain about it.
"I acted unprofessionally and lost my job, so I am going to make this about something else to deflect from my own responsibility."
"I acted unprofessionally and lost my job, so I am going to make this about something else to deflect from my own responsibility."
That's what is so confusing about the reactions and responses. I see people post feedback/ideas/criticism to game developers all the time. Gamers have a strong opinion on how games should be designed and made, and the way Deroir's tweet was phrased was exceptionally polite compared to what I typically see from the community. I could understand it being the straw that broke the camels back, but that does not excuse her response.
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