Era, I worry about my brother heading down a dark path politically. Advice?

I would suggest talking to your brother. Don't try to change his mind about stuff at first but question on stuff. Point at the inconsistencies in the alt right stuff he believes in and see how far gone he is. If you have strong ties with him and talking to him about how all this stuff is conspiracy theory crap and doesn't have a leg to stand one once thought about critically then you might have to consider being apolitical around him. If you don't have a strong tie with him then just cut him off. Be friendly when he is around of course but don't go out of the way to be around him.

I have dealt with similar situations. The way I approach it is to not try and persuade them. Then at a different time try to mention that going down a YouTube rabbit hole for things isn't healthy. I guess I try to lead by example on situations like this.

Sandy Hook shit? Sorry OP but your brother is gone, time to buy a new one.

I know how you feel OP. My friend that I hang out with the most might be heading this direction. I mean, he's not quite at the level your brother is at yet, but its frustrating. He also acts like he's the only one who knows best, and even when its more people against just him, he still argues we're all wrong, and also state false things as fact. I haven't figured out what to do about it. So there might be nothing you can do OP except let him learn on his own, or just accept it.

Do these people who believe that Sandy Hook was staged think that thousands of people were in on it? That is usually the first thing I bring up when someone tries to peddle a conspiracy theory. Just to think of how many people would have to keep their mouth shut for the conspiracy to be a reality.

I do think you should try and talk to him about what happened. But that is difficult as Sandy Hook is like way down the rabbit hole. I mean i hate saying that it may be too far gone but it probably is.

I wouldnt try to be around him too much.

Ask him if he really wants to side with a political ideal that treats the murder of children as imaginary. He has a child. Is he going to be heartless to the loss of other families.

Your mum is aware of the alt-right and believes in the alt-left? Is your family especially right-leaning?

xxracerxx said:

Once you start thinking the Sandy Hook tragedy is a hoax, all hope is lost.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yeah, once this is a real consideration for someone they're probably too far gone. How about you see if copies of coroner's reports and death certificates are available online? Would anything like that convince him it was real?

So I have a similar case, but it's a friend, not a brother. Worst thing is that he's like the only friend I go and do things with IRL that I feel comfortable around. I hate being alone as well, and don't really connect with family on the same way I connect with him.

Any advice? (Sorry for derail, didn't want to make a new thread over a similar topic)

xxracerxx said:

Once you start thinking the Sandy Hook tragedy is a hoax, all hope is lost.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This. He's not 'heading' down a dark path, he's already there

Sandy Hook is the most worrying aspect, not so much Joe Rogan. (although still not a great thing of course)

It's gonna be hard for him to come back if he starts buying into those fucked up conspiracies.

I dunno, make him watch videos that thoroughly debunk that stuff, but with these types, he probably won't believe any of it.

You could always try the Socratic method. Start asking him questions about it and maybe he'll start to realize how absurd and illogical it is by really thinking about it, and you can help him along if he doesn't. A lot of times people accept things without really putting any thought into it.

Don't have someone like that in your life OP, move on and maybe someday he'll catch up to you, maybe not.

Conspiracy theorists are the worst.

low-G said:

I will say like 10 years ago, when Alex Jones was only completely insane wacko instead of dangerous war criminal, my dad listened to him a lot.

One day me and my mom just grilled him and grilled him about it. Alex Jones was actually relatively apolitical back at this time, but he just spouted nonsense and lies.

It didn't take too long before my dad stopped listening to him. I'm not sure how we did it. I think since Alex Jones is so exceptionally dipshitty and both me and my mom can form a real good argument and reason with him. And he was listening not because he was emotionally disturbed (which I believe is a very common cause of retreat into fantasy) we were able to save him in time.

You have a much harder path, and there are probably exhasperating circumstances, but I wish you the best.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I think the thing with Jones was that when Trump started running it became too obvious that it was all a nonsense hoodwinking scheme unless you (speaking in second person here) were insanely moronic.

It was too odd that even someone with average intelligence would pick up that he went from apolitical to proTrump almost like he wasn't apolitical at all. It was too obvious he just goes where the propganda and opportunity for more exposure is.

A lot of people listen to Joe Rogan, don't worry too much about that.

Sandy Hook trutherism tho? Jesus... just talk to him about it. Don't couch it in political lingo like "Alt-right" and shit, just talk to him about the plausibility of his newfound conspiracy garbage.

Because, to tell you the truth, if he's watching Sandy Hook vids, dude's probably already way more to the right politically than you know.

aGuyInaBearSuit said:

My older brother seems like a generally smart dude, he's married, has a full-time decent job, has a house and has a newborn daughter. We were at a family gathering recently and I heard some troubling stuff from him, specifically that he saw a video about Sandy Hook that shocked him, started talking about crisis actors and weird inconsistencies. Later, he started talking about how he's taken up listening to the Joe Rogan Experience at work, a show that's a half-step away from being the Gavin McInnes show these days.

I tried to bring up my concern regarding this with my mom but made the mistake of using the term "alt-right", which caused her, a fairly conservative woman, to instead start ranting about the imaginary "alt-left" and about how my stances are too dyed in the wool and how I'm too stubborn.

I worry about my brother potentially being radicalized by awful people, but he's an adult who is free to make his own decisions. What's the right approach?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's life. People have different opinions. The only thing you can do is talk to him.

If all he and/or you talk about is politics, then it's going to be difficult.

YouTube the victims of mass shootings greiving over their lost love ones and make your brother and mom watch it.

Make sure you a joke about how the actors deserve Oscars as they watch.

aGuyInaBearSuit said:

My older brother seems like a generally smart dude, he's married, has a full-time decent job, has a house and has a newborn daughter. We were at a family gathering recently and I heard some troubling stuff from him, specifically that he saw a video about Sandy Hook that shocked him, started talking about crisis actors and weird inconsistencies. Later, he started talking about how he's taken up listening to the Joe Rogan Experience at work, a show that's a half-step away from being the Gavin McInnes show these days.

I tried to bring up my concern regarding this with my mom but made the mistake of using the term "alt-right", which caused her, a fairly conservative woman, to instead start ranting about the imaginary "alt-left" and about how my stances are too dyed in the wool and how I'm too stubborn.

I worry about my brother potentially being radicalized by awful people, but he's an adult who is free to make his own decisions. What's the right approach?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Talk to him dude. Make him see sense.

Sorta off-topic, but, man...what happened to Joe Rogan, anyway? The guy's a smart dude, but lately (specifically everything after the Alex Jones episode) he seems to be entertaining these weird, GLP levels of stupid conspiracy theory with that bozo, Eddie Bravo.

Also, why do people refer to him as alt-right? Again, he entertains offbeat, sometimes taboo conspiracy, but isn't alt-right defined by its racist culture?

Don't listen to strangers on the internet who tell you to cast him off, we don't really care about you or your family. At least try and talk to your brother in an honest way about it before you write him off. This kind of stuff ripples out to other people, as well, so it isn't just about whether he is right or wrong.

It's easy to say stuff like 'sandy hook? well i guess he's trash and hopeless' when you don't know a person. If you are close with him and think he otherwise seems like a decent person, why the hell wouldn't you say 'hey brother, what's all this talk about crisis actors lately?'. Even having a fight with him about it could be good - it might alert him to a mental drift into believing right-wing lies or it might just make him feel like something's off somehow, which is a start.

My dad was a Sandy Hook truther all the way back when it happened. People who buy into that sort of thing tend to be very confident in their beliefs, being "skeptical" of everyone and everything except the people who are feeding them conspiracies and telling them what they should be skeptical of. I won't tell you to give up hope completely, because not every situation is the same, but... well, I'm personally a lot happier when I just keep my dad as far out of my life as possible, because I've had political discussions with him in the past and they weren't pretty.

Same thing is happening with my brother OP, we were always so close but we had a huge argument about children being caged up and Trump getting a SCOTUS nomination and other things and he was just spouting right wing talking points. He's not a dumb person so it kind of broke my heart, I'm gonna leave it alone for now and not confront him but it sucks...

My entire family is more conservative than I'd like, mostly out of ignorance. I've tried reasoning with them, but it doesn't really work, because obviously I have become closed-minded from a university education.

A Sandy Hook Reuther with a newborn...damn

Try your best but he's already pretty deep in the hole and being older might make him more stubborn

My family is similar. There is no reasoning with them. If conversation diverts into politics, they go into crazy town. I just tend to distance myself from them. I don't think that it's possible or worth it to change them. They've latched on to something and now that's their identity.

aGuyInaBearSuit said:

I tried to bring up my concern regarding this with my mom but made the mistake of using the term "alt-right", which caused her, a fairly conservative woman, to instead start ranting about the imaginary "alt-left" and about how my stances are too dyed in the wool and how I'm too stubborn.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Sounds like your mom's a piece of work too.

Your brother is obviously intrigued and looking for information. Turn him on to some lefties, instead of Rogan give him NPR or the Dollop.

Instead of bullshit hoax videos shoot him video series with confirmed and vetted info, preferably by lefties. Let him explore the rest of the channels offerings naturally. Do this by suggesting videos relevant to recent conversations or his hobbies.

Eg.


Once he's a few weeks/months deep you start having deeper conversations or just straight giving him videos debunking the rights bullshit.

At this point, the YouTube algorithm is just going to pull him further and further until he's a full-blown neo-Nazi. There's nothing you can do.

Your brother watching Joe Rogan is nothing to worry about. The shandy hook is fake videos on the other hand.....

Are some people really telling op to disown his brother because he enjoys Joe Rogans podcast and has been sucked into a dumb conspiracy theory? OP your bro is probably bored in regards to the conspiracy stuff. And the Joe Rogan podcast is pretty varied. You'd have to be very narrow minded I think to consider it alt right.

My argument has been to people who express these views - what gun control laws occurred in the wake of Sandy Hook? If it was supposedly faked - exactly what happened afterwards that the "gun control lobbyists" benefit from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_after_the_Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

All things were "proposed" but never passed, nationally.

aGuyInaBearSuit said:

Rogan's show has really gone off the rails over the last year or so, often bringing in far-right guests and allowing them to spew their harmful bullshit unchallenged. He recently had noted psychopath and child rapist Ted Nugent on the show. IMO he's been chasing that right wing audience and it's turned his show into a platform for some awful views.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

But Rogan surely has something to say about conspiracy theories you could confront your brother with?

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAvLFJ9GXWk

Zan said:

So I have a similar case, but it's a friend, not a brother. Worst thing is that he's like the only friend I go and do things with IRL that I feel comfortable around. I hate being alone as well, and don't really connect with family on the same way I connect with him.

Any advice? (Sorry for derail, didn't want to make a new thread over a similar topic)

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Tell him to cut out the conspiracy theories when he's with you.

aGuyInaBearSuit said:

My older brother seems like a generally smart dude, he's married, has a full-time decent job, has a house and has a newborn daughter. We were at a family gathering recently and I heard some troubling stuff from him, specifically that he saw a video about Sandy Hook that shocked him, started talking about crisis actors and weird inconsistencies. Later, he started talking about how he's taken up listening to the Joe Rogan Experience at work, a show that's a half-step away from being the Gavin McInnes show these days.

I tried to bring up my concern regarding this with my mom but made the mistake of using the term "alt-right", which caused her, a fairly conservative woman, to instead start ranting about the imaginary "alt-left" and about how my stances are too dyed in the wool and how I'm too stubborn.

I worry about my brother potentially being radicalized by awful people, but he's an adult who is free to make his own decisions. What's the right approach?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Explain to him the fallacy in his thinking

"Truth" videos are typically rife with really terrible deductive reasoning

but ultimately, humans are going to believe whatever they want to believe.



But i'll tell you this: if you're thinking of writing him off, "cutting ties", giving up on him, ect ect

then you're really not that far away from his thinking path, and thus will 100% be unable to change him anyway

While i believe people can change, i think said person (or people) have to change on their own.

You can do your best to try to point them in the right direction, but, ultimately one's state of mind is their own.

Rayne said:

This sadly.

I mean you can try to pull him out but there's a good chance that'll just make him dig his heels in.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

No, not this sadly. What is wrong with you people that you're entertaining shunning your own family because they watched a YouTube video you don't like?

Get a grip, people.

If you confront him the same way you bring it up to your mom then he would act the same way. It'd just push him away.

The sandy hook hoax thing is disgusting and I don't know how people believe that could be fake or some bs like crisis actors.

Joe Rogan is just a chill listen though and I'm really getting tired of hearing that he's alt right and he looks like a certain way that must reflect who he is and what he believes. That's BS and that needs to stop.

Don't listen to the "cut out family crowd"

Be an adult, sit down with your brother, don't talk about radicalization he is just going to laugh at you. Don't act scared and worried. Just hang out with your brother, shoot the shit and see what's up.

Family is blood. Your family seems normal and their only crime is they listen to Joe Rogan and are conservative? Outside of this forum a family counselor wouldn't find that troubling and neither should you.

As far as the Sandy Hook shit? Clown him, hard....he'll realize it's was stupid to even entertain it. Just tell him "I don't care if you listen to Fox news, or whatever, just stay away from that info wars shit"

Dude is not heading down the path of armed militia.

Edit: and if he IS heading in the wrong direction, do your job as the brother and pull him back.

It takes a real naive brand of shitbag to believe the victims of mass shootings are faking it. I wouldn't want any kind of meaningful relationship with someone that stupid and deranged tbh.

Angry Grimace said:

No, not this sadly. What is wrong with you people that you're entertaining shunning your own family because they watched a YouTube video you don't like?

Get a grip, people.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Humans naturally double-down on existing beliefs as a defense mechanism when challenged. It's not about YouTube, it's about psychology - people have an extreme natural predisposition toward affirming their current biases, especially when faced with evidence, arguments and logic telling them that the ones they harbor are less-sound.

This is why, when you come across someone who falls into the trap of believing batshit-insane conspiracy theories (e.g. crisis actors), it's so incredibly hard to pull them out - because if they are of so unsound mind as to fall for something like that in the first place, they probably don't have enough of a grip to come to the understanding that they're wrong about it when faced with the facts. It's the same function behind anti-vaxxers sticking to their views, and NRA-types pretending that widespread ownership of guns makes people safer: All scientific evidence and statistics point toward these being objectively false, but because they're tied to internally-held beliefs, it suddenly changes from a matter of data, to a deeply-personal offense that you're only doing because you "dirty communist liberals" want their children to be autistic and Obama wants to take away their guns.

In many cases, it becomes a catch-22. Either you let them fester in their echo chamber until they start burning crosses on lawns, or you challenge them every step of the way, provide evidence, prove them wrong, open discussion, and... They dig in deeper because they're too far gone already, and try to drive you away for trying to help them.

I've been struggling with this in mine own family for a few years now. It's exhausting, to say the least.

Angry Grimace said:

No, not this sadly. What is wrong with you people that you're entertaining shunning your own family because they watched a YouTube video you don't like?

Get a grip, people.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

People doubling down on bs is well known. I have dealt with that personally and it's not worth the time and energy you spend on something they're not gonna move on from. Waste your time trying to stop them from digging that hole if you want but trying to brush it off as a minor issue is just wrong. I wasted so much time and energy being upset trying to change someone who didn't want to change and I feel so much better now that I let that go.

Of course that doesn't mean you completely ignore the person by all means maintain civility because doing the opposite just results in more needless stress. That said I'm not arguing or discussing anything that's not necessary with certain members of my family because it just leads me to being dragged into a ring around the rosie of bullshit and who has time or energy for that?

And of course is the fact that he's the minority in his family on this matter. They'll gang up on him and it'll become a mess.

There is no fucking way I would let any family member or friend of mine think Sandy Hook was full of "crisis actors."

You said he's smart, right? Well smart people can have stupid beliefs, too (although this is the peak of stupidity). I would not relent until he has sided with reason. He just needs some serious convincing.

The only solution is to show him how bad it is by getting sent to jail for attacking a minority....

Oh, wait that ended very badly.

Serious answer:

Sit his ass down and give him a long hard history lesson.

LosDaddie said:

It's life. People have different opinions. The only thing you can do is talk to him.

If all he and/or you talk about is politics, then it's going to be difficult.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Sandy Hook truthism should not be treated as "different opinions."

captive said:

The only solution is to show him how bad it is by getting sent to jail for attacking a minority....

Oh, wait that ended very badly.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

???

Ignore all of this and love him because he's your brother.

Maybe that will help him see the light too, but regardless, he's your brother.

I will tell you one thing, I don't condone disowning your family over this like some do, but I will tell you this, OP, if he's as far gone as he sounds and you really don't want him going farther, you have to draw a line in the sand. Tell him you may still love him and be there for him when he's really in need, but in general, you aren't going to be around people who spout these kind of conspiracy theories. And you have to be willing to do it, too.

People that deep into the hole are basically at a point where they are just looking for excuses to fall deeper. They have to know there's a real consquence to thier own personal lives to snap them out of it. To make them realize that, hey, they are in reality, not some fucking movie where illumainti are staging planned school shootings for no reason.

You should sit down and talk to him. But if that's all you do, sit down and talk calmly, like some naive posters here tell you to do, it's just going to happen alongside his side deeper and deeper into these holes. He has to understand that there's a real possibility you'll walk away from him if he doesn't at least look at logic and reason.

Don't listen to the instantly disown crowd, but don't listen to the painfully naive, just talk and love and nothing crowd either.

Grexeno said:

your family is done

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

With the mom saying alt left ima go with this