According to Wikipedia, Super Metroid sold 1,420,000 copies and is the 32nd best selling SNES games. Hollow Knight will likely surpass it but Hollow Knight will also be available on multiple platforms and is a much lower price. There aren't really direct parallels to compare.
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Has Hollow Knight dethroned Super Metroid/SotN in the public eye?
- Thread starter Deleted member 2834
- Start date
I've tried to play Hollow Knight 3 times now and I'm boggled by the kind of praise it's getting on Era. A new thread nearly every other day and now we've got to "is it better than Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night?"
Those games aren't as good as their sequels and follow ons and from what I've played of HK it's nowhere near. I'm sure there's something to it that have people in love with it (the same way as Dark Souls or Undertale) but I genuinely cannot see it.
Those games aren't as good as their sequels and follow ons and from what I've played of HK it's nowhere near. I'm sure there's something to it that have people in love with it (the same way as Dark Souls or Undertale) but I genuinely cannot see it.
Can someone explain to me why Hollow Knight fans are so loud and obnoxious about it dethroning all the greats and continue to make bizarre comparisons? There's literally another thread already like this on this website.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sotn-may-have-been-dethroned-by-a-game-full-of-bugs.21312/
Hollow Knight fanbase make the Undertale fanbase seem tame at this point.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sotn-may-have-been-dethroned-by-a-game-full-of-bugs.21312/
Hollow Knight fanbase make the Undertale fanbase seem tame at this point.
The start is comparatively weak. Give it a bit of time.
Yeah no.
I'd easily say so. Least Undertale fans weren't constantly trying to shit on Earthbound or anything but every Hollow Knight topic I've seen talks about how SotN is overrated or saying Super Metroid is archaic and I'm like...the fuck?
Meh-Troy-d-vay-nee-uh.
It's an overabused term that often mostly equates a 2d action platformer with freedom of exploration where ability upgrades gate progress with occasional use of rpg-like leveling growth. It demonstrates the clear power status that the two franchises(or rather individual SotN and Super Metroid games) carry among fans for literally enshrining them as a genre specification.
That's not really a good indicator, as those came out in the 90's. The market was much smaller back then.
The super Nintendo sold 50 million units world-wide, with Super Metroid being a full-fludge physical game released at $50, in 1994 dollars. ($85)
Hollow Knight released on PC and Switch. While the Switch is around only 20 million units sold, the install base for PC is huge. It's also a conveniently downloadable game for $15, 2018 dollars. It also helps that the Switch itself is lacking major games while simultaneously giving Hollow Knight a major marketing push. Also, steam often enough puts games on sale for half price.
To put it another way: The highest grossing films of all time are the following:
- Avatar
- Titanic
- The Force Awakens
- Infinity War
- Jurassic World
- Gone with the Wind
- Avatar
- Titanic
- Star Wars
- The Sound of Music
Not only this but these games became much more popular when ported to modern platforms, and games back then use to sell much less compared to how they do now with the gaming market being larger than ever every single generation.
I'd also argue people who pirate old games contribute to how many people have played these titles as well.
Maybe it's not obnoxious and they're just personal opinions. I just think for the people this game clicks with, want to talk about it. I know it's the case for me and I want to recommend it to anybody I can. It just hit so many right notes for me and a lot of others clearly.
did you get to the plants or mushroom area in HK? The first area is drab and your movement is severly limited, it doesn't leave a great first impression. The game only really opens up after you pick up an ability in the third area, until then it's fairly linear
once you pick up the crucial ability mentioned above, you are free to explore huge chunks of the map in any order. You encounter some intense memorable boss fights shortly afterwards that signal the point where the game really starts showing it's strenghts, and you meet a number of NPCs and follow their journey, which really adds a lot to the game imo
Super Metroid and SotN are both very important games that aged remarkably well, but I have a list of issues with both of them and no real drive to play them again anytime soon. HK is by no means perfect for me either
No matter how good a new Metroidvania may be, Metroid still pioneered the concept in its first game and fully realised it in Super. I don't think any game can come close to that no matter how good it ends up being.
Having said that, Hollow Knight is awesome and I understand why everyone's raving about how great it is
Having said that, Hollow Knight is awesome and I understand why everyone's raving about how great it is
I prefer Ori, Headlander, Axiom Verge, SOTN and Super Metroid over Hollow Knight. I really felt like I was just wandering about without much direction. It felt very much like Dark Souls in this respect, another game in which I felt a lack of direction. It's just not my thing I guess.
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It's an excellent game and arguably at the very top of the genre, maybe even the best the genre has to offer when it comes to combat and build variety, but for me it feels way too fucken long. I have taken several breaks from it because instead of enjoying exploring new areas, I am resenting them. Still discovering a ton of new stuff at 30+ hours into the game. It looks like I have another 10 hours to go. I am not sure I care to play Metroidvania games that are these long.
My biggest issue with HK is it's combat feels very shallow and when you compare it to something like SotN with a plethora of offensive options and ways to strike, as well as the movement options it just doesn't hold a candle in that regard.
The combat is pretty deep. Play around with various charm combos.
ahem
look at this and tell me that SotN movement is anywhere close to it
you can find similar videos for the boss fights. The skill ceiling is very high in HK, this is what the game looks like when you master the controls
You must've not played or explored SotN's mechanics enough because this looks pretty generic and limiting. Also not anywhere near as crisp in the smoothness either. Honestly I've played a game just like this called They Bleed Pixels. This doesn't impress me at all.
That's because even less people palyed Earthbound than people who played Metroid or SotN. People who say they think Hollow Knight is better than those games don't automatically shit on them, they can still think they are great. Other people in here might not like any of the three games.
Undertale fandom was and is something else in it's obnoxiousness and toxic levels.
I have no idea if I've even left the first area. It's very confusing to get around and I would of appreciated a little more direction.
I would say compared to their GBA successors (Zero Mission and Aria of Sorrow) that they're hard to return after playing their betters.
Good Lord, you people are thick. (You and the other that answered me).
I'm talking about the game being in gamers hand, about the amount of people that played the games.
Hollow Knight will soon be played and enjoyed by more people than SOTN, if sales continue to do well, it could dethrone then as more people play it.
I don't know about Super Metroid, since it's available in Snes Classic, and they've sold a lot of those.
The problem here is that HK is a deeply different game than SM and SOTN. Grouping so many games under a single portmanteau "genre" leads to useless comparisons and preference wars that have no reason to be.
Super Metroid is a near-perfect game on its own, and a timeless classic. The same can be said for SOTN.
HK is different enough in tone, style, balance and gameplay that I really can't throw direct comparisons. There's no need to find a "best" game here. You can like all of them to the same degree. Each one offers a different enough experience.
Super Metroid is a near-perfect game on its own, and a timeless classic. The same can be said for SOTN.
HK is different enough in tone, style, balance and gameplay that I really can't throw direct comparisons. There's no need to find a "best" game here. You can like all of them to the same degree. Each one offers a different enough experience.
you run in a loop to the first boss to get the ability that lets you progress to the second area. There are a number of temporary dead ends along the way, but I think the map indicates where you need to go
I'll give you Aria, but SM is worlds better than ZM in my humble opinion
I see where some people are feeling put off by the amount of praises heaped on the game and the need for validation
I'll hang back on hollow knight
I'll hang back on hollow knight
No.
Hollow Knight is amazing but it's like saying but you have to remember when especially Super Metroid came out (cause you can always argue that SOTN was already a twist of something that already existed)
Hollow Knight is amazing but it's like saying but you have to remember when especially Super Metroid came out (cause you can always argue that SOTN was already a twist of something that already existed)
Hollow Knight didn't create a genre but I feel it's the first metroid style game to move the genre forward in quite a while. It makes the other recent attempts to add to the genre feel quaint at best and obsolete at worst.. The scope of the game really sets a new benchmark and shows that the genre can break past the 10 hourish affair into something more involved and grand.. Length isn't the best innovation but that doesn't mean it doesn't count.
I look forward to games like Bloodstained and Ori but if they are just really good metroidvania it's going to be dissapointing to me.
Yeah. It's not a matter of dethroning, you're never going replace the games that established the genre to begin with, especially so long after they did it
Get the location marker charm and quill from the town shop.
While exploring, if you see sheets on the ground you're close to the cartographer. if you hear him humming you're in the same room. He sells you the base of the part of the map you're in. The quill from town lets you update that base when you explore into unknown grounds and then go to a bench (if you die on your way you land on a bench as well and it also updates the map).
No and it's not even close.
All igavanias are superior, and so are Super, Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion. On the indie side Ori, Guacamelee and Axiom Verge are better too. HK is very pretty and plays well but it's upa gaisnt high competition.
If we enter the 3D space it also ahs to contend with the Prime series and arguably Dark souls 1, so yeah.
All igavanias are superior, and so are Super, Zero Mission and Metroid Fusion. On the indie side Ori, Guacamelee and Axiom Verge are better too. HK is very pretty and plays well but it's upa gaisnt high competition.
If we enter the 3D space it also ahs to contend with the Prime series and arguably Dark souls 1, so yeah.
Well, have yet to play SotN but if Circle of the Moon is anything to go by, then yeh, Hollow Knight is leaps and bounds better.
Before playing Hollow Knight I was replaying AM2R and thought to myself "man, this fan game has some of my favorite Metroid boss fights actually, not bad!" Then I get to the more or less 3rd boss fight of Hollow Knight, the Mantis Lords, and it easily blows everything from Metroid out of the water. Really, the entire combat in Metroid games is hella bland in comparison to what HK has to offer.
Hollow Knight has it all, really. Gameplay, game design, quanity of content, quality of content, art direction, animation quality, soundtrack, lore, and story.
For as good as the atmosphere is in e.g. Metroid, S. Metroid and Metroid Fusion, there's very little interesting story told actually. Compared to that Hollow Knight creates an interesting world and tells a good and fairly concise story, which I didn't expect hearing all those "basically up to interpretation" remarks. Not that there isn't some of that but the main events concerning this 'Vessel' storyline are clear (and interesting). Beats hearing a bit more about Chozo any day of the week.
For all the complaints about having a Geo currency, I see little about comparing neat gameplay altering charms that can be combined in many ways to fucking '+5 missiles' upgrades! Oh boy, I've increased my maximum missle count from 105 to 110, what a joy. Let's see what my Energy Tanks, S. Missles and S. Bombs are at zzZzzzZz.
Before playing Hollow Knight I was replaying AM2R and thought to myself "man, this fan game has some of my favorite Metroid boss fights actually, not bad!" Then I get to the more or less 3rd boss fight of Hollow Knight, the Mantis Lords, and it easily blows everything from Metroid out of the water. Really, the entire combat in Metroid games is hella bland in comparison to what HK has to offer.
Hollow Knight has it all, really. Gameplay, game design, quanity of content, quality of content, art direction, animation quality, soundtrack, lore, and story.
For as good as the atmosphere is in e.g. Metroid, S. Metroid and Metroid Fusion, there's very little interesting story told actually. Compared to that Hollow Knight creates an interesting world and tells a good and fairly concise story, which I didn't expect hearing all those "basically up to interpretation" remarks. Not that there isn't some of that but the main events concerning this 'Vessel' storyline are clear (and interesting). Beats hearing a bit more about Chozo any day of the week.
For all the complaints about having a Geo currency, I see little about comparing neat gameplay altering charms that can be combined in many ways to fucking '+5 missiles' upgrades! Oh boy, I've increased my maximum missle count from 105 to 110, what a joy. Let's see what my Energy Tanks, S. Missles and S. Bombs are at zzZzzzZz.
We don't have to tear down other games.. Especially Super Metroid and sotn. HK stands on its own 8 legs.
I've not played Hollow Knight yet so I can't comment on it, but at least out of the group of more recent Metroidvanias, the only two that have given me the same exploratory feeling that SM and SOTN did has been Iconoclasts and Axiom Verge. They follow the formula pretty well.
No, not even close. Super Metroid was a pioneer, HK is something following its footsteps. It does so really well, I gotta say. Still nowhere near the reach. I'd say that games like Braid have FAR more reach, as do most actual castlevanias.
And besides: You do know you can like games without them being THE BEST AND MOST WELL REGARDED EVA. It is in fact possible to play more than one game of a genre.
yep. It's kinda sad. I mean, I love Undertale too, but damn was its fanbase silly sometimes - and the HK one seems to try to outdo it for some reason. This is silly.
And besides: You do know you can like games without them being THE BEST AND MOST WELL REGARDED EVA. It is in fact possible to play more than one game of a genre.
yep. It's kinda sad. I mean, I love Undertale too, but damn was its fanbase silly sometimes - and the HK one seems to try to outdo it for some reason. This is silly.
Haven't played Hollow Knight yet, but I beat Axiom Verge the other day, and I'm pretty sure that's the best Metroidvania I've ever played, and I have played Super Metroid and SotN.
I love Axiom Verge.. HK is better than Axiom Verge.
I am worse than the Undertales!
OP
OP
Sure, I've played pretty much all noteworthy Metroidvanias. It just so happens that HK is the best.
Axiom Verge is very good as well.
This, as I said in my first post, is impossible to do since the game hasn't been out long enough to know what its impact will be compared to two 20-plus-year-old games.
I just don't get why everything must be turned into a competition. I love the game but I don't think Hollow Knight does anything special or new, it's pretty standard metroidvania stuff honestly, it just does it incredibly well and is really ambitious in its scope, the world is enormous. But I don't think it does anything that SotN didn't already did in 1997
Pretty much this.
Hollow Knight is a really good game. Super Metroid and SOTN are master works that stand up to this day as the best in the genre.
I just gotta ask this again: why "never"? Why are so many people insistent that games like Super Metroid or SotN will "never" be surpassed?
Like, do people really believe that the genre is done? For the rest of human history, second best is all anyone can aspire to?
Why would you want that? Hollow Knight is probably my favourite Metroidvania, and in my subjective opinion the best Metroidvania I've played to completion. And I can't wait to play the game that does it even better.
Like, do people really believe that the genre is done? For the rest of human history, second best is all anyone can aspire to?
Why would you want that? Hollow Knight is probably my favourite Metroidvania, and in my subjective opinion the best Metroidvania I've played to completion. And I can't wait to play the game that does it even better.