Cosmic Horror in Film

Elandyll · Nov 20, 2017

Alien is not cosmic horror, as envisionned by HPL.
The Thing would barely qualify (the spaceship origin kinda disqualifies it), though ItMoM and Prince of Darkness would (even with the religious subtones, as it clearly refers to a parallel universe).

A good example would also be The Mist imo.

Trojita · Nov 20, 2017

From Beyond

Technically The Shining counts as cosmic horror.

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric · Nov 20, 2017

Dream said:
Fuck Event Horizon. That film gave me nightmares as a child. :C

It's basically just Hellraiser in space but damn if it isn't effective regardless of its derivative nature.

Also, there was a much nastier, more violent work print that Paramount made Anderson tone down for the final, theatrical release. Sadly, we'll probably never get to see that version.

uzipukki · Nov 20, 2017

Even Horizon is such an amazing film. Absolutely love it and to some extent, love it more than Alien/Aliens. Maybe it's the fact that the atmosphere in Even Horizon is so oppressive, where as in Alien it is not (my opinion). Probably going to have to watch it again soon.

BlackGoku03 · Nov 20, 2017

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric said:
It's basically just Hellraiser in space but damn if it isn't effective regardless of its derivative nature.

Also, there was a much nastier, more violent work print that Paramount made Anderson tone down for the final, theatrical release. Sadly, we'll probably never get to see that version.

Some of the footage and set pics of the cut scenes were released a year or two ago.

Azzanadra · Nov 20, 2017

Dennis8K said:
Not a movie but True Detective Season 1 is the best cosmic horror ever on TV.

I have eyes that can see so Cthulhu could not hide from me.

Look, I love TD S1 as you can tell by my avatar, but like it only has cosmic horror themes on the most superficial of levels. Literally just some imagery, and even in the ending is antithetical to the cynicism and pessimism hat cosmic horror tends to embody.

The problem I have noticed is that most TV shows and movies have a lot of trouble doing cosmic horror, they often like Lovecraft's imagery but fail to deal or grapple with the themes in any meaningful way. The problem is that Lovecraft talks about the ineffable, the unspeakable and the unimaginable. While its not so hard to nail the "uncaring" universe theme, the incomprehensible often is harder to portray. Don't know if this was intention but in True Detective, the idea that Rust comes to peace with his impotence in ever blowing the whole conspiracy wide open is actually the most Lovecraftian of ideas present in the show, but as mentioned before its still very surface-level. One movie that I haven't seen mentioned that is actually quite congruent with Lovecraftian themes is 2001: A Space Odyssey. I actually don't even like that movie, but its true.

Funnily enough other thank books, videogames, at least from what I have seen are the best medium for this type of horror. In Amnesia for example, the "sanity" meter as well as the water enemies that you cannot see are brilliant, as well as the the character of the villain, Alexander. And of course Bloodborne has gameplay systems like frenzy and insight, though its still funny how you are killing these "great ones" by hitting them as hard as you can with a physical object, and in turn they try to beat you to death with their arms/tentacles/placenta/sharp weapons... just kind of funny. Though the SoulsBorne minimalism does wonders for the game, as it obscures the plot just enough to project an image of unknowable-ness.

Deleted member 13131 · Nov 20, 2017

I think Alien fits pretty well, especially when considered without the context of the other films that followed it. A crew of space truck drivers encounters a truly bizarre glimpse into a whole other part of the universe, one well outside their understanding. The film is constantly juxtaposing the plight of the crew against the isolation of the ship in deep space, placing emphasis on how insignificant they are; even the tagline ("In space, no one can hear you scream") is about how uncaring the universe is. Everything about the alien ship, the eggs and the space jokey provide just tiny glimpses into a strange and seemingly vast part of the universe the humans can barely comprehend. One at once relentlessly hostile and yet indifferent to them. Ash flat out praises the titular creature for how it operates with utter indifference to the humans on the ship. ("a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality")

I think all that fits with cosmic horror pretty strongly. The other films in the series fuck it all up, but the first film very much fits.

More_Badass · Nov 20, 2017

Elandyll said:
Alien is not cosmic horror, as envisionned by HPL.
The Thing would barely qualify (the spaceship origin kinda disqualifies it), though ItMoM and Prrince of Darkness would (even with the religious subtones, as it clearly refers to a parallel universe).

A good example would also be The Mist imo.

As envisioned by inspired by HPL is Lovecraftian. Lovecraftian horror and cosmic horror tend to be used interchangeably, but they are not the same

GhaleonEB said:
I think Alien fits pretty well, especially when considered without the context of the other films that followed it. A crew of space truck drivers encounters a truly bizarre glimpse into a whole other part of the universe. The film is constantly juxtaposing the plight of the crew against the isolation of the ship in deep space, placing emphasis on how insignificant they are; even the tagline ("In space, no one can hear you scream") is about how uncaring the universe is. Everything about the alien ship, the eggs and the space jokey provide just tiny glimpses into a strange and seemingly vast part of the universe the humans can barely comprehend. One relentlessly hostile and indifferent to them. Ash flat out praises the titular creature for how it operates with utter indifference to the humans on the ship.

I think all that fits with cosmic horror pretty strongly. There other films in the series fuck it all up, but the first film very much fits.

This, GhaleonEB explains it well

boxfactory · Nov 20, 2017

UCBooties said:
LOL, I'm not interested in establishing my "cred" or whatever. I have given my reasons for listing Alien and acknowledged why it's a controversial pick. The themes of Cosmic Horror are broader than just explicitly eldritch/mythos horror.

What are your favorite examples of Cosmic Horror that you would recommend?

I don't care about your cred or my cred. Why did you intentionally choose controversial picks in your op? I don't understand why you would want to derail your own thread.

Trojita · Nov 20, 2017

Horror in space and Cosmic Horror mean two totally different things to me. Alien is the former to me.

Nothing incapable of understanding. No goes crazy from the reveal, nothing I'd call an eldritch abomination.

More_Badass · Nov 20, 2017

boxfactory said:
I don't care about your cred or my cred. Why did you intentionally choose controversial picks in your op? I don't understand why you would want to derail your own thread.

The discussion has been interesting and perhaps enlightening for some. A lot of people use Lovecraftian and cosmic like they're one and the same; all Lovecraftian horror is cosmic horror, but not all cosmic horror is Lovecraftian

UCBooties · Nov 20, 2017

boxfactory said:
I don't care about your cred or my cred. Why did you intentionally choose controversial picks in your op? I don't understand why you would want to derail your own thread.

Because Cosmic Horror is more than just Lovecraftian elements. So I included a range of picks that I felt typified the themes I was looking for. It's not a derail if it's the point of the thread.

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric · Nov 20, 2017

BlackGoku03 said:
Some of the footage and set pics of the cut scenes were released a year or two ago.

Yeah, I've seen what was released but apparently the original cut was a good 20-30 minutes longer and made the suits at Paramount very uncomfortable.

BigDes · Nov 20, 2017

Event Horizon is the prequel to Warhammer 40000. I love it.
Stalker is also an amazing movie

The upcoming Annihilation movie is going to be some cosmic horror fun as well

BigDes · Nov 20, 2017

Double post but

Would Picnic at Hanging Rock count as Cosmic horror?

AdrianG4 · Nov 21, 2017

Would It be considered cosmic horror ?

Luminaire · Nov 21, 2017

Trojita said:
Horror in space and Cosmic Horror mean two totally different things to me. Alien is the former to me.

Nothing incapable of understanding. No goes crazy from the reveal, nothing I'd call an eldritch abomination.

The alien could be considered eldritch by some stretches. I think I recall H.R. Giger being inspire by Lovecraft, but I don't suppose that amounts to enough to make it cosmic horror. I would agree and say that Alien is not exactly cosmic horror.

@ the others - Cosmic Horror is about the fear of the unknown, knowledge one should not have, madness and beings incomprehensible by the human mind, and the mere thought that we are insignificant in this uncaring and abysmally cold universe. It is about impossible things that should not exist in any form or any place, yet do. Things that we may find ourselves wishing we had never learned, for the very thought fills us with an endless despair akin to insanity. There is a lot of overlap between Lovecraftian and Cosmic Horror, but like others have said - they are not the same thing. Cosmic means just that - something far bigger than we could ever imagine, but something that could be next to us or within the furthest reaches of our mind at the same time. It shares many ties with psychological horror, often going hand in hand with existential horror and the dreadful burden of life and what it really means.

Creatures, beings, or even just concepts so beyond our own recognition that we can really only refer to them as the highest power we know - gods. I personally feel gods are more a Lovecraftian thing and less a Cosmic Horror thing, but that may be my bias from reading more of his works than other authors of the time and genre.

To contribute something other than my own musings, someone posted a short film in a similar thread at the old place. I felt it carried a lot of Lovecraftian themes, but may not have been completely cosmic horror.
It's a short film called AM1200. It's 40 minutes long and it's Lovecraftian. That's about all I should tell you.

https://vimeo.com/102372269
https://vimeo.com/102372269
I hope people find it as enjoyable as I did.

More_Badass · Nov 21, 2017

Oh, UCBooties check out 2014 Spanish movie The Incident. It's cosmic horror in a Twilight Zone episode sense

Conciliator · Nov 21, 2017

Alien totally has cosmic horror implications. It's not necessarily upfront screaming in the center of the camera, but one of the things that makes Alien so creepy is the intimation that the protagonists are dealing with only a minor cornered remnant of the horror implied.

EDIT: speaking to the first film as stand alone

More_Badass · Nov 21, 2017

Also the book series Repairman Jack starts as street level crime thriller with a witty vibe that dips more and more into cosmic/Lovecraftian horror seeping into the urban thriller action as the serie progresses. It's quite a cool hybrid of genres

IDreamOfHime · Nov 21, 2017

Wierd to see you say Alien and dismiss Prometheus, when Prometheus is a just an (poor)adaptation of At the mountains of madness.
It's not very well written and some of it is very on the nose is the cosmic horror sense (scientists go crazy at click of finger and our creators don't care about us), but it hits the bullet points.

Arkeband · Nov 21, 2017

It's not "cosmic" horror but I thought The Witch embodied some of the spirit of that genre.

Satan appearing after having played with the family, dressed anachronistically, and taking the girl away is basically the "this is far beyond the capabilities of anyone in the film". It might as well have been Cthulhu, since they were truly fucked before the movie even began, yet his motivations and intentions are unclear. Chaos? Subservience? Evil for the sake of evil?

Steamlord · Nov 21, 2017

BigDes said:
Double post but

Would Picnic at Hanging Rock count as Cosmic horror?

I'd say it's actually one of the best examples I can think of.

Violence Jack · Nov 21, 2017

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric said:
Yeah, I've seen what was released but apparently the original cut was a good 20-30 minutes longer and made the suits at Paramount very uncomfortable.

The MPAA pretty much told Paramount that there was no way Event Horizon was going to be rated under NC-17 for all the stuff that was in the original version. Listening to interviews about it, there was some pretty gnarly and sick stuff cut out. I just wish Paul Anderson didn't cock tease us horror fans a few years ago when they announced that they found a complete uncut version of the film on VHS and acted like they were going to release it soon.

More_Badass · Nov 21, 2017

Arkeband said:
It's not "cosmic" horror but I thought The Witch embodied some of the spirit of that genre.

Satan appearing after having played with the family, dressed anachronistically, and taking the girl away is basically the "this is far beyond the capabilities of anyone in the film". It might as well have been Cthulhu, since they were truly fucked before the movie even began, yet his motivations and intentions are unclear. Chaos? Subservience? Evil for the sake of evil?

I never thought of The Witch like that. It's like "Gothic" cosmic horror, taking the themes and elements of cosmic horror and reframing them from a Puritan perspective

Morrigan · Nov 21, 2017

Not sure I agree with Alien, but whatever, not gonna nitpick to that point. The Thing and In the Mouth of Madness are the best "Lovecraftian" movies I've seen.

UCBooties : have you seen the indie black and white Lovecraft adaptations? The Call of Cthulhu (2005) is a B&W, silent movie done in the old 20's style, with stop motion animation, and it works really well. Very fun to watch. It's a bit short (45-50m IIRC) but I think most old silent movies were too. The same producers also made The Whisperer in Darkness, this one is B&W too but not silent, it's more in the 30's style I guess, to match the era when the story came out. Both movies are definitely worth watching.

mac · Nov 21, 2017

IDreamOfHime said:
Wierd to see you say Alien and dismiss Prometheus, when Prometheus is a just an (poor)adaptation of At the mountains of madness.
It's not very well written and some of it is very on the nose is the cosmic horror sense (scientists go crazy at click of finger and our creators don't care about us), but it hits the bullet points.

I can't fully agree with that but I also think Prometheus is way more cosmic horror than Alien.

TheCthultist · Nov 21, 2017

More_Badass said:
Bloodborne is more Lovecraftian than cosmic horror

Lovecraftian is more specifically eldritch, ancient ones, Victorian/Gothic, etc, thus the "inspired by Lovecraft"

Specific Lovecraft stories are more in line with Eldritch Horror, which is itself a subset of Cosmic Horror; Cosmic being the umbrella term that any "fear of the unknown" style story will fit under, while Eldritch specifically deals with some unknowable supernatural power. So while yes, Bloodborne and things like At the Mountains of Madness/Call of Cthulhu/Shadow Over Innsmouth are all Eldritch, they're absolutely still Cosmic as well. In that same way, Aliens could be argued to be Cosmic horror, but its a much harder sell and you'd really need to find a solid way to argue the point to get it to stick with most folks who analyze this stuff. Its more along the lines of general Sci-Fi Horror, as the threat, while initially unknown to the characters, is absolutely a physical threat that is can be studied and understood. Its a living, biological organism that just happens to be way more evolutionally advanced than us.

Loving where this thread is going, btw.

More_Badass · Nov 21, 2017

TheCthultist said:
Specific Lovecraft stories are more in line with Eldritch Horror, which is itself a subset of Cosmic Horror; Cosmic being the umbrella term that any "fear of the unknown" style story will fit under, while Eldritch specifically deals with some unknowable supernatural power. So while yes, Bloodborne and things like At the Mountains of Madness/Call of Cthulhu/Shadow Over Innsmouth are all Eldritch, they're absolutely still Cosmic as well. In that same way, Aliens could be argued to be Cosmic horror, but its a much harder sell and you'd really need to find a solid way to argue the point to get it to stick with most folks who analyze this stuff. Its more along the lines of general Sci-Fi Horror, as the threat, while initially unknown to the characters, is absolutely a physical threat that is can be studied and understood. Its a living, biological organism that just happens to be way more evolutionally advanced than us.

Loving where this thread is going, btw.

I think Ghaleon's post earlier on this page does a good job at presenting a cosmic horror lens for Alien, in its cinematography and narrative and such

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric · Nov 21, 2017

Violence Jack said:
The MPAA pretty much told Paramount that there was no way Event Horizon was going to be rated under NC-17 for all the stuff that was in the original version. Listening to interviews about it, there was some pretty gnarly and sick stuff cut out. I just wish Paul Anderson didn't cock tease us horror fans a few years ago when they announced that they found a complete uncut version of the film on VHS and acted like they were going to release it soon.

It's one of those things that will tickle the minds and imaginations of horror fans for years to come.

And who knows, maybe the footage will get re-discovered? It happens sometimes.

TheCthultist · Nov 21, 2017

More_Badass said:
I think Ghaleon's post earlier on this page does a good job at presenting a cosmic horror lens for Alien, in its cinematography and narrative and such

Exactly why I said you'd need to make a strong argument for it. As the OP said, its a devicive pick for a list of Cosmic Horror films, and with good reason. At the end of the day, it's not a matter of it not being Cosmic Horror because its not Eldritch Horror; its a matter of it not being Cosmic Horror because of what the rest of the series did to remove any semblance of unknown from the equation. If you take Aliens without the sequels, as Ghaleon said, then yes, it has a much better case for being Cosmic Horror. However, in the same vein, so does just about any horror movie with a monster in it. Particularly if said movie doesn't get a bunch of sequels that explain exactly what the monster is and how its powers work.

pramod · Nov 21, 2017

IMHO John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness should also count as cosmic horror. It's actually a weird blend of Lovecraft, time travel, and sci-fi. Not a great movie overall but it's got some pretty cool themes that I haven't seen in many other movies.

MrToughPants · Nov 21, 2017

Event Horizon is great horror. Wish we could get that Director's Cut lost footage.

Patrick S. · Nov 21, 2017

Lifeforce and Sphere.

TheCthultist · Nov 21, 2017

pramod said:
IMHO John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness should also count as cosmic horror. It's actually a weird blend of Lovecraft, time travel, and sci-fi. Not a great movie overall but it's got some pretty cool themes that I haven't seen in many other movies.

Its one that really feels like it deserves another pass. If a remake could flesh out some of the more... poorly handled bits, I'm sure they could make a great film out of what's there. Again, the underlying themes give so much to work with that it really shouldn't be hard to do today with a bigger budget/more time behind it. And it would make a great addition to the list.

Opto · Nov 21, 2017

Alien's application to be cosmic horror is a little muddied by the rest of the movies, especially Prometheus and Alien Covenant. Things are explained and reduced.

Nappuccino · Nov 21, 2017

Opto said:
Alien's application to be cosmic horror is a little muddied by the rest of the movies, especially Prometheus and Alien Covenant. Things are explained and reduced.

I only believe in one Alien.

VaporSnake · Nov 21, 2017

Dongs Macabre said:
with that ending where the guy finds religion or whatever.

You definitely misinterpreted that ending if that's what you got out of it.

TheCthultist · Nov 21, 2017

Dongs Macabre said:
While I do love me some King in Yellow references, I feel that True Detective ultimately fails as a cosmic horror story with that ending where the guy finds religion or whatever.

...I feel like you and me saw two very different endings...

Lord Fagan · Nov 21, 2017

Alright, ERA. Hear me out...

This is not a particularly great film, but the central McGuffin is germane to the discussion of cosmic horror of a bizarre, unknown nature.

It's this big, pink glowing thing that according to the movie's supercomputer contains "9th dimensional matter" which is about as fucking weird as it sounds. Aside from altering and enhancing the genetic structure of organisms that even hang around it and it's strange telepathic aura, the film's conclusion suggests it also has the power to collapse the universe and/or spontaneously evolve all sentient life if it's, um, turned on by going supernova.

There's lots of vague speculation on the creators of this artifact, but since the humans in this film have never made a First Contact yet, it's not out of bounds to consider that this could be something crafted by the Great Old Ones. They openly wonder if it's a weapon, or maybe even just a toy, but the longer they hang around it, the more chaos and destruction it wreaks.

Like I said, kind of dopey movie, but it's got a cool cast headlined by James Spader and Angela Bassett. Check it out, OP.

More_Badass · Nov 21, 2017

Would people here consider Roadside Picnic cosmic horror, or at least having elements? The notion of us being so insignificant that whatever entities are out there leave behind what could just be useless refuse to them but, for us, is technology beyond our comprehension and understanding

Or Stanislaw Lems' Solaris? First contact in a psychologically-taxing form due to how incomprehensible and incompatible another lifeform might be to us

Deleted member 2229 · Nov 21, 2017

More_Badass said:
The discussion has been interesting and perhaps enlightening for some. A lot of people use Lovecraftian and cosmic like they're one and the same; all Lovecraftian horror is cosmic horror, but not all cosmic horror is Lovecraftian

Not at all true.
A lot of Lovecrafts work is just regular gothic horror.

Triggerhappytel · Nov 21, 2017

Elandyll said:
Alien is not cosmic horror, as envisionned by HPL.
The Thing would barely qualify (the spaceship origin kinda disqualifies it), though ItMoM and Prrince of Darkness would (even with the religious subtones, as it clearly refers to a parallel universe).

A good example would also be The Mist imo.

In the Mouth of Madness and Prince of Darkness are great. ItMoM really feels like one of the best cosmic horrors because it's as much about reality and insanity as it is any creature or monster.

The Mist is also great. A lot of the creatures in that are wonderfully Lovecraftian.

Trojita said:
From Beyond

Technically The Shining counts as cosmic horror.

From Beyond is great. Really quite vile and messed up, but a good entry in the genre. But how is The Shining a cosmic horror? Surely everything in that film can be explained as a boy with unspecified psychic powers and a haunting at the hotel?

GhaleonEB said:
I think Alien fits pretty well, especially when considered without the context of the other films that followed it. A crew of space truck drivers encounters a truly bizarre glimpse into a whole other part of the universe, one well outside their understanding. The film is constantly juxtaposing the plight of the crew against the isolation of the ship in deep space, placing emphasis on how insignificant they are; even the tagline ("In space, no one can hear you scream") is about how uncaring the universe is. Everything about the alien ship, the eggs and the space jokey provide just tiny glimpses into a strange and seemingly vast part of the universe the humans can barely comprehend. One at once relentlessly hostile and yet indifferent to them. Ash flat out praises the titular creature for how it operates with utter indifference to the humans on the ship. ("a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality")

I think all that fits with cosmic horror pretty strongly. The other films in the series fuck it all up, but the first film very much fits.

Excellent summary. I've never really thought about Alien like that, because I don't remember a time when I was aware of it without the context of at least one sequel.

pramod said:
IMHO John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness should also count as cosmic horror. It's actually a weird blend of Lovecraft, time travel, and sci-fi. Not a great movie overall but it's got some pretty cool themes that I haven't seen in many other movies.

Fitting avatar ;)

LakeEarth · Nov 21, 2017

TheCthultist said:
Its one that really feels like it deserves another pass. If a remake could flesh out some of the more... poorly handled bits, I'm sure they could make a great film out of what's there. Again, the underlying themes give so much to work with that it really shouldn't be hard to do today with a bigger budget/more time behind it. And it would make a great addition to the list.

Yeah, of all the Carpenter movies, Prince of Darkness is definitely the one that was super close to being a classic, but just missed the mark in one too many areas. It is ripe for a remake.

Elandyll · Nov 21, 2017

More_Badass said:
As envisioned by inspired by HPL is Lovecraftian. Lovecraftian horror and cosmic horror tend to be used interchangeably, but they are not the same

This, GhaleonEB explains it well

Nah.

It's been analyzed for decades.
Alien is basically a riff on an Agatha Christie murder novel (And Then There Were None is often cited), with a crew stranded in an isolated place being offed one by one.
The main difference is the Alien entity, but almost none of the trappings of Cosmic Horror are present.

- major emphasis on psychological terror, with elements that cannot be explained other than magic or otherwordly phenomenons (Alien is visceral, and what is unknown becomes known by the end of the movie as a "superior product of alien evolution")
- the discovery that other things exist that are so beyond ourselves and our comprehension that we cannot possibly understand them (they spend Alien chasing the entity in corridors, trying to analyze it with Ash performing tests, and a single human end up getting rid of it). The fact that a major theme of Alien (and its sequels and prequels) is Weyland trying to analyze/ capture/ weaponize the Alien also goes against it. That the Alien itself is particularly lethal does not change that.
- the unreliable narrator, where we get to understand either the narrator is not who he/she says they are, or their sanity has been compromised (Alien is real time, and beside being terrified nobody is losing their mind).

whiskas_fanatic · Nov 21, 2017

Recently, certain scenes in Stranger Things S2 gave me really strong lovecraftian\cosmic horror vibes.

dragonchild · Nov 21, 2017

I thought Event Horizon was a comedy?

Dongs Macabre · Nov 21, 2017

VaporSnake said:
You definitely misinterpreted that ending if that's what you got out of it.

TheCthultist said:
...I feel like you and me saw two very different endings...

I'm definitely being unfair, but he feels his daughter's presence in a near-death experience and then he's not such a nihilist anymore, then says some dumb stuff about light and darkness or whatever. While it doesn't really imply any kind of religiosity, the show still tries to boil it down to a struggle between good and evil in the end, which goes against what cosmic horror is about.

LakeEarth · Nov 21, 2017

dragonchild said:
I thought Event Horizon was a comedy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJnIJHgQ44

Hahaha, I'm laughing already...

Bashful Trey · Nov 21, 2017

Berserk: The Advent

Cosmic Horror in Film

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Spear of the Metal Church

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