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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Drunk driving is another issue. Once machines are better, driving on public roads done by humans should be prohibited.
My point is generally alcohol is not illegal in and of itself and even without vehicles it can result in deaths and rapes.
Fiction such as Mark Twain or Casa blanca shouldn't be prohibited, because they perpetuate X. Even real historical artifacts like Mein Kampf have historical value and should not be prohibited.
A work of fiction should not be prohibited on the grounds it fosters some nebulous negative belief. Even in cases where it resulted in inspiration for real crimes, say a heist, a terror plot, etc. That fiction is distinct from those who can't distinguish reality and their criminal actions.
You did not butt in at all, if anything, I'm glad you presented your POV. That's true, I didn't consider female wrestlers, they wear revealing clothes but they have a reason too.
That comparison doesn't quite work. No, I don't think Mein Kampf should be banned as there is no real point to it, but I also think people should be stopped from writing books about how the Jews are the root of all evil or whatever. Like, once the work exists, sure, it shouldn't be banned (well, as long as it's legal; obvious exceptions like child pornography exist), but maybe let's stop encouraging people from creating shitty/horrible things.
I think the drinking and driving example illustrates why the position of intertemporally stationary moral standards is untenable. We don't yet have sufficient means to obsolete human driving. In the absence of an automatic fleet, do you deny that we should do what is within our means to protect the lives of people living here and now?
And I agree with your point that absent vehicles, alcohol can potentially play a causal role in negative outcomes. It is through discourse, debate, and exchange of ideas I think that society is able to form a decision about where to draw the line. Likewise with sexism and video games.
I see where you're coming from better now with regards to works of fiction. I agree an outright ban is not an ideal solution, same with alcohol. I think more thought is needed to decide if some restrictions are worth imposing, not necessarily on production of fiction but consumption. Just how there are some things which children are not permitted to purchase or consume now, maybe there are some things affecting their socialization which warrant a more critical eye.
Unwatch? Yeah, go to the watched threads and check this thread an unwatch. Hide threads? I don't think so. You could just ignore this thread.
I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
Eternal truth? Are we on some cosmic significance track? Like "What does objectification mean to the stars?"
"Won't someone please think of what bikini armor means to the cosmic order!?!?"
If you don't wish to participate in the thread and have nothing to add to the discussion (off-topic), please don't post.
To be fair I think the Great Old Ones are more intrigued by the mortal fascination with tentacle porn.
Great post.I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
It would be this. Literally this. And guys in this thread saying there's no problem would hate it.
God, I still remember the outrage that happened with that weird mobile final fantasy game.
People on the old site were DEMANDING square change it. Because it was too much. An outfit that is the default for nearly every female character in a fantasy setting was deemed "too much" because it was on a guy.
That's the issue. That's the crux of this thread.
...I mean...
There is an anime with the female personification of the Great Old Ones. It's called Nyaruko-san, and it's the adventures about Nyarlathotep (as a girl because of course) having adventures and doing her job researching anime and Japanese video games. No I am not joking. Yes, this is real. No really, I am not joking. Surprisingly better than it sounds. Still not joking.
I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
I wouldnt have a problem with that. Nude raiden and Old Snake skin tight behind caused me no issues. FF Mobius nor Van in FFXII troubled me.
I have no problem watching westworld in the company of others.
................................
...... I always knew the true Eldritch horrors were anime moeblobs.
They caused you no problem because they are the exception, not the default. The camera doesn't lovingly focus on Snake's perfectly scultped ass every time it's on screen. He's not contorted into an awkward pose on the cover of every box ensuring that the consumer is always getting an eyeful.
To be fair, I hate Vaan for his obnoxious personality, meddling, irrelevance to the plot, and, more appearance-wise, the bruises he has in place of actual nipples:
Can't say about Honoka, but Marie Rose's original dress is more or less ok (gothic lolita fashion taken serious enough). But i guess you mean all those "innocent swimsuit" DLCs for her that they made later...
As i already said, too bad DoA5 kind of killed itself with orientation at "sexy costumes" in the end, as it's great game at it's core. ALSO we can even say that initially costume dlcs had more variety and even had some interesting ones. Not only that, they had more details and work done to them, while later costumes are mostly lazy reskins at heart.
And "fan contest" didnt improve situation, no. Many great designs never made it to game, because they selected... you know what they selected.
So while i'm pretty loyal to DoA 5 in many ways, so far i guess my last DLC purchase was Tatsunoko franchise mashup.
ALSO YES DoA5 has similar problem of "not having enough content for male characters because it pleases fans of female characters in 1st priority".
Isn't nude Raiden somewhat being played for laughs?
At the very least it's a moment where you are supposed to feel exposed and uncomfortable.
Isn't it saying something, that you're comparing it to female character representation in gaming.
At the very least it's a moment where you are supposed to feel exposed and uncomfortable.
Isn't it saying something, that you're comparing it to female character representation in gaming.
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In order to set out my case that my preference for practical adventuring gear for adventurers is equally pedantic across the spectrum, my objection to Vaan's outfit was never his abs, it was the sheer amount of pointless metal accessories and armour scraps when he lives in the desert.
That he's a total waste of space in a six-person party where another interesting perspective on Ivalice could have replaced him or the always-overused-childhood-friend-template Penelo is another matter entirely :D
With all due respect, you have no problem with it because it's rare.
The what if here, the crux of this argument, is what happens when Vaan or the Mobius guy or Nathan Drake in assless chaps because the STANDARD. Because that's where female design is in 2017. Female design that is practical and generally respectable is the outlier. It's the thing where we go, "Oh! that's really nice for a change!". This is the problem.
Would you be down if, in literally every television show you watched going forward, you saw half of a dick for most of the show? Because that's where female fashion design is at.
It is. MGS2 is trying to humiliate Raiden, and by extension the player.
Even if such were the norm I wouldnt mind. When you get those girl targetting shirtless male on male hinted more than friends. It doesnt affect me. It wouldn't even if it was the norm.
To me it's like the superhero scifi predominance in hollywood. I don't mind.
I could see wanting more content of a certain kind if there's not enough. But my steam backlog is 100s of titles long and most don't have uber sexualized females that I can note. Games we have ever more, especially now with the predominance of indies. A good indie is just as good as a AAA title. Older titles can be just as good if not better. People need to overcome their biases.
Do you not mind or do you not care?
Because there's a difference and you seem more like you don't care.
The fact that 'Snake's ass appears on screen' is, in your calculations, the same as 'the camera lovingly focuses on Snake's ass when it's on screen' might be a part of the issue at hand here.
Never underestimate Japan's desire to turn EVERYTHING into anime moeblobs. They will not stop. Ever.
It would be this. Literally this. And guys in this thread saying there's no problem would hate it.
God, I still remember the outrage that happened with that weird mobile final fantasy game.
People on the old site were DEMANDING square change it. Because it was too much. An outfit that is the default for nearly every female character in a fantasy setting was deemed "too much" because it was on a guy.
That's the issue. That's the crux of this thread.
1. Manly Guys Doing Manly Things is an awesome webcomic. Just getting that out there.
2. Yeah, it is amusing when you bring in a hint of male fanservice how much the same group who says it doesn't matter starts throwing a hissy fit.
Tekken's Honoka was even advertised as 'the biggest' (and I assure you, they're not talking about those big doll eyes <3)
Which is another thing that annoys me with busty characters; there is SO MUCH EFFORT to draw attention to it. Yes busty women are real, but they're not always actively trying to get you to notice something that's already damn noticeable Giant boobs are practically treated like their own character trait.
lol like what even the fuck:
Which is another thing that annoys me with busty characters; there is SO MUCH EFFORT to draw attention to it. Yes busty women are real, but they're not always actively trying to get you to notice something that's already damn noticeable Giant boobs are practically treated like their own character trait.
lol like what even the fuck:
And the issue isn't if a person here and there wouldn't care about it if it was the norm, the question is would they be intellectually dishonest enough to claim that the majority of the gaming population would also not care.
Because as that FF character showed us, they would complain up a storm.
The -tans were fun once. Then the fire nation attacked.
Japan is getting a crash course in figuring out that hentai proportions don't work in a 3d space.
Tekken's Honoka was even advertised as 'the biggest' (and I assure you, they're not talking about those big doll eyes <3)
Which is another thing that annoys me with busty characters; there is SO MUCH EFFORT to draw attention to it. Yes busty women are real, but they're not always actively trying to get you to notice something that's already damn noticeable Giant boobs are practically treated like their own character trait.
lol like what even the fuck:
...back pain. Soooooo much back pain.
to be honest I don't really know why they advertise them as anything since they all look the exact fucking same
That's clearly a Valkyria Chronicles character so I'd say either 3 or Azure Revolution. I think she's supposed to be from the first game but I honestly don't remember her bust being that big in that game.
The really bad Valkyria game. Valkyria Azure whatever, I forgot, and judging from reviews it doesn't matter.
It's like the longer this thread continues on, the more insane the excuses become.
Can the leftist conspiracy be topped?
Yeah, that's annoying. You can have a large-chested woman without making that her defining trait, or giving her a shirt that apparently has its own 2 boob socks in it. Like... even in 1997 (man that was 20 years ago now xD) I always found Tifa's original design to be silly in how tight the shirt was. Whereas this shirt (nevermind the stupid suspenders lol) has a far more natural look for a large-chested woman.
I mean, it's not just Snake's ass appearing intermittently on screen. It's Snake's lovingly-rendered-in-a-skin-tight-suit ass being the most prominent element of his character during the majority of the gameplay parts of the game, to a point where it was obviously intended to be so.
I'm not disagreeing with the overall idea of your previous post here, but Old Snake is completely past the point of accidental camera placement.
Snake's butt occupies like 5% of the screen and has no unnecessary movement
Find a MGS cutscene featuring Snake like this:
Or even its agreed that MGS4 intended to emphasize Snake's tush, its telling that he manages to be less objectified than villains that have a fraction of his screen time
The character (Selvaria) from VC1 was still really big, but yeah not to that degree. They went out of their way to make it even worse in promotional art though.
They even have the sword positioned in such a way that it looks like there is a phallus between her breasts.
There goes all my interest in the series.
...wat. No, seriously, wat. I'm like 99% sure boobs don't work that way. Like, this series is good without this bullcrap.
Well, there was that one guy saying that objectification was some kind of eternal cosmic truth or whatever.
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