I would have to disagree with your statement that all exists as eternal truth.
Actually this is exactly why we place restrictions on alcohol consumption. The strong empirical and biological connection between drunk driving and vehicular homicide (which can impose the unfreedom of death onto others), has led many societies to recognize there is a tradeoff and that restricting the freedom to consume alcohol and drive of some is worth it to preserve the freedom to live for others.
The empirical evidence for sexism and depiction of women in games is not as rich, at the current state of research. Causality models are lacking right now. However, the possibility of such a trade-off exists. It warrants further investigation to determine whether the strong correlations observed between sexism and video game exposure result from a causal connection, in what direction, and if so, how we wish to address that as a society.
You did not butt in at all, if anything, I'm glad you presented your POV. That's true, I didn't consider female wrestlers, they wear revealing clothes but they have a reason too.Ah, sorry if you meant to ask a specific poster instead of a general question, I didn't mean to butt in like that.
As for skin-showing: no, not necessarily. Female wrestlers have very revealing outfits, and they can be really sexy, but they usually offer, y'know, breast support at least. :D And depending on how the camera frames the character it wouldn't necessarily be objectification. R. Mika just looks incredibly goofy and stupid IMO.
Drunk driving is another issue. Once machines are better, driving on public roads done by humans should be prohibited.
My point is generally alcohol is not illegal in and of itself and even without vehicles it can result in deaths and rapes.
Fiction such as Mark Twain or Casa blanca shouldn't be prohibited, because they perpetuate X. Even real historical artifacts like Mein Kampf have historical value and should not be prohibited.
A work of fiction should not be prohibited on the grounds it fosters some nebulous negative belief. Even in cases where it resulted in inspiration for real crimes, say a heist, a terror plot, etc. That fiction is distinct from those who can't distinguish reality and their criminal actions.
Drunk driving is another issue. Once machines are better, driving on public roads done by humans should be prohibited.
My point is generally alcohol is not illegal in and of itself and even without vehicles it can result in deaths and rapes.
Fiction such as Mark Twain or Casa blanca shouldn't be prohibited, because they perpetuate X. Even real historical artifacts like Mein Kampf have historical value and should not be prohibited.
A work of fiction should not be prohibited on the grounds it fosters some nebulous negative belief. Even in cases where it resulted in inspiration for real crimes, say a heist, a terror plot, etc. That fiction is distinct from those who can't distinguish reality and their criminal actions.
Ok thanks for the infoJaffo
That functionality does exist in somebody's unofficial user theme, and the tech team for the site itself have it on the list of upgrades to attempt, but currently: no, not by default.
"Won't someone please think of what bikini armor means to the cosmic order!?!?"Eternal truth? Are we on some cosmic significance track? Like "What does objectification mean to the stars?"
To be fair I think the Great Old Ones are more intrigued by the mortal fascination with tentacle porn."Won't someone please think of what bikini armor means to the cosmic order!?!?"
Great post.I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
To be fair I think the Great Old Ones are more intrigued by the mortal fascination with tentacle porn.
I made a topic back in the old country about guys not really getting it on a level beyond the intellectual because in geek media, even when dudes are drawn half naked, it's in a way dudes are comfortable with. I don't have the freedom to recreate that entire post at this very moment, but to sum it up, the first time I ever got a real, visceral sampling of that feeling was here
Because that is the kind of costume we should be putting 40-50% of male characters in if we're talking about coming to an inkling of understanding of how the other side feels.
The operative word here is 'gratuitous.' Down to his waistline this would be standard 'look at my perfect masculine form' fare. But then it keeps going, letting us definitively answer the question of 'how's Namor's manscaping?' The sleeves and pauldrons making sure to cover every bit of flesh that isn't at least a little scandalous and potentially titillating.
Talking to my fellow men at this point, especially the ones who don't get it: Imagine that costume, or a variation thereof, in almost every single game. Not as an alternate, but as the male lead's primary 'iconic' look.
Imagine that, since this is the primary character, there is at least one male character in the game that dresses even more provocatively. I'm talking full on assless pants and the camera makes sure to get good and tight on that crack whenever he steps on screen.
Now put those dudes on the cover of every other god damned box on the shelf.
You wouldn't want people to catch you holding that game, let alone playing it. You'd be uncomfortable every single second of it, right? Amd worst of all, you couldn't do anything about it. If you want to play games you just have to shut up and deal with it. And occasionally the devs would throw you a main character with a functional pair of pants and a working knowledge of what a shirt was.
You'd be pretty dissatisfied and I haven't even saddled you with all the real world systemic issues women have to deal with yet.
...I mean...
There is an anime with the female personification of the Great Old Ones. It's called Nyaruko-san, and it's the adventures about Nyarlathotep (as a girl because of course) having adventures and doing her job researching anime and Japanese video games. No I am not joking. Yes, this is real. No really, I am not joking. Surprisingly better than it sounds. Still not joking.
They caused you no problem because they are the exception, not the default. The camera doesn't lovingly focus on Snake's perfectly scultped ass every time it's on screen. He's not contorted into an awkward pose on the cover of every box ensuring that the consumer is always getting an eyeful.I wouldnt have a problem with that. Nude raiden and Old Snake skin tight behind caused me no issues. FF Mobius nor Van in FFXII troubled me.
One only has to look at the reactions to that dude from the FF mobile game, or the hate Vaan gets, to see that <Homer> I'd like it fine!! </Homer> is unlikely, haha. (Yes, #notallmen, I know)
While DoA has always sexualized its female characters, I would also say that modern DoA has cranked up the objectification. Honoka and Marie Rose both debuted in DoA 5 (Marie Rose first appeared in the arcade version), and I think they are definitely the worst that the series has to offer.
...I mean...
There is an anime with the female personification of the Great Old Ones. It's called Nyaruko-san, and it's the adventures about Nyarlathotep (as a girl because of course) having adventures and doing her job researching anime and Japanese video games. No I am not joking. Yes, this is real. No really, I am not joking. Surprisingly better than it sounds. Still not joking.
In order to set out my case that my preference for practical adventuring gear for adventurers is equally pedantic across the spectrum, my objection to Vaan's outfit was never his abs, it was the sheer amount of pointless metal accessories and armour scraps when he lives in the desert.To be fair, I hate Vaan for his obnoxious personality, meddling, irrelevance to the plot, and, more appearance-wise, the bruises he has in place of actual nipples:
Hum, dude, this is exactly what happens for 90% of the gameplay.The camera doesn't lovingly focus on Snake's perfectly scultped ass every time it's on screen.
With all due respect, you have no problem with it because it's rare.I wouldnt have a problem with that. Nude raiden and Old Snake skin tight behind caused me no issues. FF Mobius nor Van in FFXII troubled me.
I have no problem watching westworld in the company of others.
It is. MGS2 is trying to humiliate Raiden, and by extension the player.
They caused you no problem because they are the exception, not the default. The camera doesn't lovingly focus on Snake's perfectly scultped ass every time it's on screen. He's not contorted into an awkward pose on the cover of every box ensuring that the consumer is always getting an eyeful.
Do you not mind or do you not care?Even if such were the norm I wouldnt mind. When you get those girl targetting shirtless male on male hinted more than friends. It doesnt affect me. It wouldn't even if it was the norm.
To me it's like the superhero scifi predominance in hollywood. I don't mind.
I could see wanting more content of a certain kind if there's not enough. But my steam backlog is 100s of titles long and most don't have uber sexualized females that I can note. Games we have ever more, especially now with the predominance of indies. A good indie is just as good as a AAA title. Older titles can be just as good if not better. People need to overcome their biases.
Hum, dude, this is exactly what happens for 90% of the gameplay.
................................
...... I always knew the true Eldritch horrors were anime moeblobs.
It would be this. Literally this. And guys in this thread saying there's no problem would hate it.
God, I still remember the outrage that happened with that weird mobile final fantasy game.
People on the old site were DEMANDING square change it. Because it was too much. An outfit that is the default for nearly every female character in a fantasy setting was deemed "too much" because it was on a guy.
That's the issue. That's the crux of this thread.
It is. MGS2 is trying to humiliate Raiden, and by extension the player.
Do you not mind or do you not care?
Because there's a difference and you seem more like you don't care.
Never underestimate Japan's desire to turn EVERYTHING into anime moeblobs. They will not stop. Ever.
Japan is getting a crash course in figuring out that hentai proportions don't work in a 3d space.Which is another thing that annoys me with busty characters; there is SO MUCH EFFORT to draw attention to it. Yes busty women are real, but they're not always actively trying to get you to notice something that's already damn noticeable Giant boobs are practically treated like their own character trait.
lol like what even the fuck:
Tekken's Honoka was even advertised as 'the biggest' (and I assure you, they're not talking about those big doll eyes <3)
Which is another thing that annoys me with busty characters; there is SO MUCH EFFORT to draw attention to it. Yes busty women are real, but they're not always actively trying to get you to notice something that's already damn noticeable Giant boobs are practically treated like their own character trait.
lol like what even the fuck:
Tekken's Honoka was even advertised as 'the biggest' (and I assure you, they're not talking about those big doll eyes <3)
I feel sorry for the people who put so much effort into summarising the arguments that appear in these threads now. Good luck squeezing that into the handy OP list.
'false equivalence'
'vote with your wallet'
'censorship bad'
'sex-negative'
'leftist anti-democratic media regulation subjective reality conspiracy'
You know what? They should find a way to include it on the list just to show how ridiculous these arguments have gotten. Don't forget:
*literal declaration of a woman's body as an object*
*finding a word that a person thinks is used incorrectly then focusing solely on said word*
Yeah, that's annoying. You can have a large-chested woman without making that her defining trait, or giving her a shirt that apparently has its own 2 boob socks in it. Like... even in 1997 (man that was 20 years ago now xD) I always found Tifa's original design to be silly in how tight the shirt was. Whereas this shirt (nevermind the stupid suspenders lol) has a far more natural look for a large-chested woman.Which is another thing that annoys me with busty characters; there is SO MUCH EFFORT to draw attention to it. Yes busty women are real, but they're not always actively trying to get you to notice something that's already damn noticeable Giant boobs are practically treated like their own character trait.
I mean, it's not just Snake's ass appearing intermittently on screen. It's Snake's lovingly-rendered-in-a-skin-tight-suit ass being the most prominent element of his character during the majority of the gameplay parts of the game, to a point where it was obviously intended to be so.The fact that 'Snake's ass appears on screen' is, in your calculations, the same as 'the camera lovingly focuses on Snake's ass when it's on screen' might be a part of the issue at hand here.
Hum, dude, this is exactly what happens for 90% of the gameplay.
That's clearly a Valkyria Chronicles character so I'd say either 3 or Azure Revolution. I think she's supposed to be from the first game but I honestly don't remember her bust being that big in that game.
They even have the sword positioned in such a way that it looks like there is a phallus between her breasts.The character (Selvaria) from VC1 was still really big, but yeah not to that degree. They went out of their way to make it even worse in promotional art though.
Don't worry, she's a fighter.
The character (Selvaria) from VC1 was still really big, but yeah not to that degree. They went out of their way to make it even worse in promotional art though.
Well, there was that one guy saying that objectification was some kind of eternal cosmic truth or whatever.It's like the longer this thread continues on, the more insane the excuses become.
Can the leftist conspiracy be topped?