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The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,205
It is what it is. I don't fault you for voting me, however.

On another note, my reads are a bit shot because my biggest town read (Fantomas) got NK'd and I didn't expect ET to flip scum, so I'm kinda rethinking stuff now. I'm leaning town on both you and Ezekel at the moment. Not really sure what to make of Stuarat's vanilla claim, but much like Nin's it's not too alignment indicative I think? Unless there was something I missed.

I'm kinda interested in the low/no posters right now, as I do agree that there's usually scum hiding in there, so I might go back and read them over in a bit.

What do you think of Kalor and Faddy?
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
Could've swore I mentioned on more than one occasion that I'm on mobile and signal is weak. I at least mentioned it once. Or is Donna the only that use irl reasons? I know I mentioned it last day phase cause gir understood it when he wanted something.
I know I mentioned it this days phase cuz I mentioned it taking like 5 minutes to quote something on a current page.
———————
You only scum read me for a dubs vote.

Honestly this feels like you are desperate to see me lynched and just reaching.

1. IRL reasons are valid, I even gave Grizzly and AB a pass for it.

2. You have spent plenty of time posting, even going back and forth to paraphrase your chat with Fanto. Hell you could have given post numbers and I'd have gone back and looked for them instead of doing a search for you through the thread like I ended up doing so I could quote them. Post numbers would have been enough for me to go fetch them. (and you've done post numbers already when pointing out stuff so it's not unusual for you to do that and I'd have understood)

3. Voting records are valid reasons to scum read people. It's also perfectly valid

4. Right now I want Panda lynched more than you unless he posts something to change my mind so I'm in no way desperate.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
Not voting for the wagon competing againt ET doesn't look good on him?

I used that as an example of why he wouldn't be able to say "My vote wouldn't really have mattered" as his vote ended up not mattering anyway. If he had voted for Grizz, he'd have made him a possibility to get lynched even more so.

His vote absolutely could have mattered is what I'm saying, so there is no "My vote wouldn't have mattered" excuse as his vote ended up not mattering anyway.

Sorry if that is badly explained, it makes sense in my head though >.<
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,133
What do you think of Kalor and Faddy?

I have a very limited read on Kalor right now. He is someone I need to go and read over.

I agree that Faddy's early vote looks suspect too. One thing that stuck out was him potentially bringing up Gorlak a few times early on (post 308 and post 314), but looking at the vote count he never actually voted for Gorlak, so I'm re-reading to find out why.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
Is Faddy prone to bussing early on as scum?

It's just his early vote feels justified but the share he throws at others later on as pointed out already makes me question keeping his vote on ET for the whole day.

If he's been an early busser before, it's possible this is the same thing but I don't actually think I've seen him as scum before?
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,881
It's late and I don't have stamina to write a long read list right now. But I'll do something more simple, and group up players based on my initial thoughts.

Scummy:
Sophia - Worrysome voting patterns, I've detailed it in my posts today.
Kalor - Worrysome voting patterns, seems oppoturnistic in the same way as Sophia.
Faddy - Early potential bus vote on ET, then for rest of day mostly pushed CS without actually committing to voting him himself. Scummy behaviour in general.

Slightly scummy:
Giant Panda - Really trying to lay low. Not much valuable contributions at all. It's so noticeable though that it's not coasting.
Gorlak - He is really aggressive. That is a valid way of play, but he seemed to sort of chase everything without real rhyme or reason? He was also 100% absent during D1 end for some reason. If Gorlak is town, he will be a valuable asset. But right now I don't know if he is.

Coasters (usually scum hiding here):
Empressdonna - Had IRL reasons though, but was pushing CS. Kind of flying under the radar in general.
Absolutbro - Had IRL reasons though. Hope to see more of you today.
melonrabbit - Has posted, but has given me absolutely no impression at all. Worrying. Tried to push for CS at the end.
Alexem - I keep forgetting he exists. Some favorable voting patterns though.
Z-Beat - Same as melon - I have no impression of him at all.

Neutral:
Stuart - He is just all over the place really. Heavy defending ET, today being aggressive and angry and martyrdom - but I just aren't able to read him as scum at this conjecture. His posts do seem genuine and not fabricated - a far cry from scum Stuart in Monopoly and lot closer to town Stuart in Kingdom Hearts. But all those points above do push him down.
Gir - He has contributed, but he feels bit colorless and mellow - like he tries to stay low. Feel bit better of him than coasters though.
EzekelRAGE - Like Stuart mentioned, him staying on Dubs was odd. In general something in his posts rubs me the wrong way - can't pinpoint what it is though.

Slight Town Lean:
nin - I haven't liked his posts in D2 (he is just being plain mean), but in general my read of him in D1 was favorable town.That said, he also tried to push for CS at the end with melon.
CoolestSpot - He seems like the usual Coolest, doing weird shit. That's not alignment indicative really. However, D1 didn't feel like scum vs scum vote, so that gets him points from me.
DCPat - Had important last vote on ET. Posts have felt pretty good in general.

Town Lean:
Turmoil - In general I've liked his posts. Also was one of the first to push ET into legitimate lynch target with his vote. That said, scum are sometimes serious bus drivers, just look at me in Monopoly lol.
B-Dubs - Also voted ET relatively early, and in an important spot. I also like his posts in general, seems like he has drive to solve the game. The push for Zeke being a liar today was dumb though.
In my defense I had a slight scum lean on Zeke going into today. Him posting fanto's reads moved him into town lean for me though.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,133
Kalor's voting patterns can be easily read. Do that at least now, Sophia.

Don't boss me around, thanks. :p

Looks like Kalor's initial vote for ET was when ET had a lead, which is a fairly safe spot for scum to jump onto. You can say you were on the vote, and claim it was because one's personal choice wasn't happening.
 

The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,205
I haven't sewn Faddy as scum so I can't say. People also change their tactics deliberately from game to game.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
I haven't sewn Faddy as scum so I can't say. People also change their tactics deliberately from game to game.

true but it's good to keep in mind previous games. I mean meta is meta. We are all guilty of that really.

I just don't know if Faddy has form or not for this which is why I was curious. Too tired to actually go through all his posts just now so was just looking at the vote post of his and I was curious.
 

The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,205
Don't boss me around, thanks. :p

Looks like Kalor's initial vote for ET was when ET had a lead, which is a fairly safe spot for scum to jump onto. You can say you were on the vote, and claim it was because one's personal choice wasn't happening.

His first vote on ET is potential bus. He then later moved to CS in a very oppoturnistic manner, only to retract it almost instantly.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
Since we're talking about Kalor atm, I'll repost my own thoughts from my read list:

Kalor:

Kalor's post where he says Grizz isn't happening and he doesn't suspect CS, he then votes ET. He then votes for CS but claims he changed his mind and forgot to delete it so switched back to ET. Those votes seemed very suspicious and was like a Bus attempt where he was contemplating switching his vote to CS (assuming CS is town and Kalor is scum) but then switched back because he thought ET was more likely to happen and wanted to be on the scum lynch. Of course I'm not saying he lied that he forgot to delete that vote, on the contrary, I think that was a mess up of Scum!Kalor possibly where he had to really decide if he wanted to switch from ET or not. To Bus or Not to Bus, that is the question!.

Still not totally sure on him but for now, he's in my lean scum pile

His vote was very suspicious though and I am leaning towards thinking he as scum messed up when he 'changed his mind' about voting for CS when he switched back to ET.

Might be wrong but I am leaning scum on him atm.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,181
I think it is likely Zeke is telling the truth regarding the chat happening, but in itself it isnt an alignment indicative, he would inform us as both town/scum to not anger the third party. I think

I don't think either Zeke or Stu are scum, I am quite nullish on them right now. Maybe leaning a little town on Stu because his wrath feels genuine.

Kalor said he was wary of ET and Stu on his first serious post, never mentioned him again until his ET vote, votes Bear without mentioning ET , even though he was one of the leading wagons, the weird switch situation

I would vote for Sophia or Donna too but I think he is a better candidate right now

I want to read other less active players, I am quite nullish on them too

VOTE:Kalor
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
Read List:

Scum:

GP: his coasting on D1 plus his lazy vote on me and then accusing me of calling it an OMGUS vote when he knew it wasn't. Then like I said, the way he mentions ET for some reason as possible scum then later drops him and when asked says he may still be a good choice but the reasons for voting for him was typical D1 stuff. His whole D1 was weak.

Zeke: Him being the last person to speak with Fanto makes me suspicious of him. On top of that, despite being around plenty, he kept with his first vote which was piggybacking off of Gorlak and said his vote was subject to change. He never changed it.

Lean Scum:

Kalor:

Kalor's post where he says Grizz isn't happening and he doesn't suspect CS, he then votes ET. He then votes for CS but claims he changed his mind and forgot to delete it so switched back to ET. Those votes seemed very suspicious and was like a Bus attempt where he was contemplating switching his vote to CS (assuming CS is town and Kalor is scum) but then switched back because he thought ET was more likely to happen and wanted to be on the scum lynch. Of course I'm not saying he lied that he forgot to delete that vote, on the contrary, I think that was a mess up of Scum!Kalor possibly where he had to really decide if he wanted to switch from ET or not. To Bus or Not to Bus, that is the question!.

Still not totally sure on him but for now, he's in my lean scum pile

Sophia: That vote Grizz posted feels really bad in retrospec which is the main reason she is here now.

Lean Town:

Donna: Explained in an earlier post

Grizz: His posts today have made me feel pretty good about him. Need to see how today goes but he's in a lean town for me now.

Z-Beat: Might not be too much from him but he does remind me of him from KH and he was town there so I'm leaning town on him.

Town:

Nin: Despite not liking the way he acts today, this doesn't feel like scum Nin based on his last scum performance. Pretty sure he's town.

Turmoil: Feeling pretty good about them. Pretty sure they are town. Looked back at his first vote on ET and his response to my asking why ET instead of CS. Feel really good about them.

Anyone not here, I'm unsure on currently. I'll try and update this read list before the end of the day phase. with any changes as the day goes on.

The bold is my update.

Tempted to put Grizz in town rather than lean town because I feel good about them even more now but I hesitate because I know he can be pretty good when on scum team. But at the same time, he's had some breakdowns (like Marvel) when he was scum.

idk, maybe I'll move him to town later on today. We'll see how the day progresses.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,133
Got a question for you, Faddy.

To be fair I wasn't 100% commited to that vote. But I am never going to move off the vote leader when they have done nothing to make me think they are town. Coolest really put me to the test though.

Here you say you weren't 100% committed to your ET vote, but you didn't vote Gorlak early on despite saying that you weren't town reading him. Why was that?

Nope.

If I had a town read on you I might consider it.

Also, what's your current opinion on Gorlak? I couldn't quite figure out how you felt about him from your later posts.
 

Giant Panda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,689
That's a great way of thinking. Who besides of me would sou suggest taking a close look into?
I'd still consider Stuart. The defensiveness, and what I think are insincere arguments, continuing into today is still rubbing me the wrong way.

Grizzly's comments about Faddy also caused me to raise an eyebrow. It certainly looks like he was hesitant to move off ET because of the optics of jumping off of the leading lynch.

Vote: CoolestSpot

I don't like the sliding battle between CS and ET. Feels like someone is trying to save CS.
I also did not like this vote because it's justification seems off. By this point CS had gotten near ET but had never been in the lead or tied. Might have been scum trying to create a false narrative about CS.

I am of the opinion that CS is probably town. CS seems like a wildcard but even then I don't see why he'd pull that stunt when his scum partner is the leading lynch. If we had lynched CS mostly for his shenanigans and he turns up scum, that doesn't necessarily make town take ET off the chopping block the next day unless ET starts D2 off really strong.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,181
That supposedly Fanto's readlist Zeke posted mentioned Melon's #880 post

Me, for one. I don't feel particularly strongly either Grizzly or ET. If I have to pick between them then I suppose ET has been more fluff than not.

I wouldn't vote CS today despite the mess of that gambit. But I was entertained.

Zeke feels off to me but I'm not getting a scum vibe more of a sense that's he holding a few extra cards and there is somewhere he is going with all this.

I don't like how AB is just gone. Z-beat and B-Dubs too. Lots of people in the middle.

This was after my vote and minutes before Bdubs'

Why exactly didn't you vote for ET again melonrabbit ?

What was all that #hubris bussines about? I am missing some meta here? nin
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,133
Some things about Kalor that really bother me. He threw shade at ET near the start of the game.

I just caught up after getting home but I feel good about Nin and gir. No real reasoning beyond what my gut thinks. I'm wary of ET and maybe you, although I seem to always be wary of you on D1 for some reason.

But later when he voted for Grizzly, there was no mention of ET at all. What happened there?

Caught up on the posts over night. General thoughts

Gorlak and Sophia both seem like town, just with different approaches.

Not sure what to make of Stus insistence that his play is similar to previous games. Being consistent is hardly indicative of anything. I can understand why he might be frustrated at people reading into his play if it is the same as previous games, but other games don't matter here.

Feel okay about Ezekel right now.

I have a nagging feeling about Grizzly and I'm not quite sure why.

So I have a vote down, although I don't know if I'll stick with it since they mentioned they won't be around much.

Vote: Grizzly

Also of note is that when the vote was between ET and Grizzly, he said this...

I want to stick with the Grizzly vote but the lack of both players being here for this sort of makes it weird.

It was only after ET had a noticeable lead that Kalor jumped onto the vote

However, he did apparently intend at one point to vote Coolest, changed his mind, but accidentally sent it out anyhow.

Hmm...
 

melonrabbit

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,103
Nowhere
That supposedly Fanto's readlist Zeke posted mentioned Melon's #880 post



This was after my vote and minutes before Bdubs'

Why exactly didn't you vote for ET again melonrabbit ?

What was all that #hubris bussines about? I am missing some meta here? nin

As I said I didn't feel that strongly either way between grizzly and ET and CS' overall performance seemed suspect.

Hubris is deepest meta.

Splints went for a hammer on scum!Blarg and Blarg was a bomb and they both went boom and town lost. This was Pokemon or maybe Overwatch. idk. Happened and I laughed so hard even if hubris cost us the game.

There's your daily meta lesson. Lemme check up on things over dinner.
 

nin

Asked Politely
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,159
1. [m] Grizzly - GMT+2 : happy we kept him around. Liked how he tried to look back at things. WI do the same later on. Better feeling on him than yesterday.

3. [m] Kalor - GMT
A pretty torn view on him. At the beginning I was not feeling him but then started to feel him. Currently not sure how to feel about him. If we go by voting records and his fli flopping at the day end it does not look good. Will give him the benefit of the doubt

4. [m] turmoil7 - GMT-3
Liked him day one even though he was not one of the most active players. Hopefully my hermano will do some more work today. Null on him

5. [f] Sophia - EST
We love each other deep inside that's what she can't stand. The love runs deep. Otherwise I liked that she pushed back against me yesterday. She challenged me while others just relaxed.
Still, while I do love her something feels off. This could be her playstyle that just does not sit well with me. Will keep an eye for her but will also give her the benefit of the doubt. No vote for me today my love.
6. [m] Stuart444 - GMT
This guy. He kept me awake longer than I wanted to. His meltdown felt genuine. He likes me, that's why he emulated my vanilla town claim, learn from the best my friend. In all seriousness though at the day start I had him higher up my scum list than I currently have. The passion and aggression he btang to the table showed me that he can't be scum. If he is indeed scum. Lynch me.

Will do the rest of the players after breakfast :)
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,133
5. [f] Sophia - EST
We love each other deep inside that's what she can't stand. The love runs deep. Otherwise I liked that she pushed back against me yesterday. She challenged me while others just relaxed.
Still, while I do love her something feels off. This could be her playstyle that just does not sit well with me. Will keep an eye for her but will also give her the benefit of the doubt. No vote for me today my love.

Love is over when you claim vanilla at the start of a game, dear.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,181
I can totally picture you on a scumchat telling your mates you want to try the VT gambit out of fear of 'the revenge on nin'
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Good morning
During the last hours of D1 I was busy irl. With CS's antics I would've probably landed there, look at it, it's a complete shitshow once he comes in.

The way how the votes evolved make me think it was a town vs scum lynch though. I think Faddy mentioned it today. There is no way scum!CS would come in & cause havoc only to save goon ET.

I took a bit of time to look into Grizzly 's history and I have to rescind my scum read from yesterday. Pop mafia was the game I was going by the heaviest. There he was inactive scum and the bill seemed to fit, but often enough he was inactive town afterwards and not involved. He even dropped out a few times. The last games he was scum, he was very active though. So putting meta aside, I'll look at what he does this game. The rechecking EoD could be busywork to remove that inactivity stench, he does bring up some interesting points though. I'll see further down the line what to make of it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Reading EoD makes me wary of a few people. nin with that late bad vote. Stuart444 being the most involved in questioning people on why they vote ET.

The one given me the most headache is Sophia though.
Vote: Sophia

I've tried to ISO her and she had 1 interaction with ET at the beginning, calling ET to give actual thoughts. She never got back to him. There was one post, I have to look it up again, where she in response to someone else mentions ET could be suspicious, which was way into the day, when a lynch was possible (*afair). After that she only ever comes back on the topic EoD. The voting looks odd.
Let me get that quote.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
I didn't have a very good impression of ET starting this game out. Not quite outright scum reading, but his early posts were fluff. I hope when he returns he'll change that and get engaged.
That's the quote and only time Sophia gives an actual opinion on ET. The context looked random. It's in response to Z-Beat, who talked with Fantomas. She wasn't involved there at the time.

However, it does not look like it was around the time when ET lynch looked possible though, like I thought. It was post #547, 20 hours before EoD, when a couple of people had 2 votes?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
So far we've got EzekelRAGE with a night chat claim and Stuart with a vanilla claim.

The read list Zeke gave, looks like Fantomas writing. I believe that they shared a night chat, but that's NAI. I do feel better about Zeke as of now though, because of his general attitude this day. What caught my attention was Fantomas' read on melon. Investigation will follow.

I don't know what to make of Stuart444. Somewhere he pushed me and said we've played a few times were I was town when in fact, according to the game player data, it was one game, which was a bit on the unique side (marvel).
I can see his behaviour at EoD as a two way street. Either scum blatantly trying to convince people to get off of ET or a town player genuinely baffled. Either way he created discussion and motion. He did get CS back into the race when there were only two votes on CS (#960). With votes following from Z-Beat, Sophia and AB on the same page.
As of now I'd lean more on the scummy side. I do not understand what he did today or why he claimed. I'll give it a reread.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Will do the rest of the players after breakfast :)
Who is eating breakfast for 2 hours straight?
550fca757bacd9408c26e7219856f7fa2298.gif
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Me, for one. I don't feel particularly strongly either Grizzly or ET. If I have to pick between them then I suppose ET has been more fluff than not.
I wouldn't vote CS today despite the mess of that gambit. But I was entertained.
Zeke feels off to me but I'm not getting a scum vibe more of a sense that's he holding a few extra cards and there is somewhere he is going with all this.
I don't like how AB is just gone. Z-beat and B-Dubs too. Lots of people in the middle.
Don't like any of these choices.
Fuck #hubris
Vote: CoolestSpot

melonrabbit You've got some 'splainin' to do!
 

nin

Asked Politely
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,159
Gorlak do you agree with Stuart that I should leave the hunch I got alone and just ignore the fact that it seemed like empress tried to get ET into the game?
For now I will check other players, but my vote will remain there.