Melanie Martinez Accused of Rape By Former Friend, Denies Allegations in Statement

FireSafetyBear said:

Not saying no is NOT a form of consent.

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At what point do we acknowledge consent? Sexual relations is not a dry legal contract with a notory. Sometimes a touch or look leads to a kiss or more. No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

Goliath said:

No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

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....Are you serious with this?

Morrigan said:

....Are you serious with this?

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To be honest, if im with a girl and I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance from her part...what i get is that i have full consent

Trantorian said:

To be honest, if im with a girl and I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance from her part...what i get is that i have full consent

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In no way shape or form is that correct

Trantorian said:

To be honest, if im with a girl and I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance from her part...what i get is that i have full consent

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"without a hint of resistance"
*cringe.gif*

...S-surely, you meant to say "with enthusiastic and reciprocal participation".... right?

Beefy said:

Wish I didn't look up her videos...

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Yeah, they're pretty weird and don't help her case at all.

NameUser said:

Yeah, they're pretty weird and don't help her case at all.

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If you're taking music videos into account at all when judging a rape accusation you're kinda doing it wrong

I'm inclined to believe a partner doesn't always have to be explicitly affirmative.

Reviewing the statements I can only conclude Melanie is very self centred and didn't treat her friend with the respect or dignity she deserved.

She admits she had a sexual relationship but claims Timothy never said no. Timothy actually did in at least one of her stories. Furthermore whenever Melanie did start a conversation about sex with her in half these stories Timothy did it with her after being very uncomfortable and giving long awkward answers.


Melanie isn't going to learn anything from this if the right people aren't taking to her about this. She should apologize for the way she mistreated Timothy.

Goliath said:

At what point do we acknowledge consent? Sexual relations is not a dry legal contract with a notory. Sometimes a touch or look leads to a kiss or more. No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

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Trantorian said:

To be honest, if im with a girl and I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance from her part...what i get is that i have full consent

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Dawg that's real motherfucking rapey

From both of yall

collige said:

If you're taking music videos into account at all when judging a rape accusation you're kinda doing it wrong

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Not really, I was just saying they don't help. Wasn't making a statement for myself.

Now as far as consent goes, I feel like the defenders saying, "it's complicated," are ignoring the statement, and the lead up to what happened. This wasn't a relationship that had already turned sexual, it was something that she clearly didn't want.

Trantorian said:

To be honest, if im with a girl and I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance from her part...what i get is that i have full consent

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"resistance".

Are you going to war my lad?

Shocking phrasing right there.

NameUser said:

Not really, I was just saying they don't help. Wasn't making a statement for myself.

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My point is that there's no scenario where they would help. If Taylor Swift or someone was accused of rape, no one would point to her wholesome music videos and say "she wouldn't do something like that". The inverse holds true too.

collige said:

My point is that there's no scenario where they would help. If Taylor Swift or someone was accused of rape, no one would point to her wholesome music videos and say "she wouldn't do something like that". The inverse holds true too.

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True.

Goliath said:

At what point do we acknowledge consent? Sexual relations is not a dry legal contract with a notory. Sometimes a touch or look leads to a kiss or more. No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

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If it is left up to interpretation.....and if their interpretation is different then you just committed rape so isn't it best to be sure?

I mean if you are too embarrassed to actually vocalize your desires then you probably shouldn't be doing it anyway.


edit: I have no idea who this person is but those baby tattoos all up and down her arm are weird.

If you are with someone and not receiving reciprocation, you are not receiving consent. Come on, people.

Morrigan said:

"without a hint of resistance"
*cringe.gif*

...S-surely, you meant to say "with enthusiastic and reciprocal participation".... right?

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It depends because some people tend to be cold and not very "active", so you can never know. Am i supposed to ask "hey, do i have permision to have sex with you?" because that would be weird

I've seen similar stories on tumblr years ago so it's not too surprising.

Trantorian said:

It depends because some people tend to be cold and not very "active", so you can never know. Am i supposed to ask "hey, do i have permision to have sex with you?" because that would be weird

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NO! Not really!

Trantorian said:

Am i supposed to ask "hey, do i have permision to have sex with you?" because that would be weird

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Man, I wish this site supported emoji! That sounds weird, really? Maybe it does, but it's better than having sex with someone without their consent. You could just ask, "Is something wrong?" or "Is this what you want?" And even then you should be able to read their expressions and have enough sense to back off if they obviously aren't in to it. If they truly want you, they'll tell you to start up again.

Trantorian said:

It depends because some people tend to be cold and not very "active", so you can never know. Am i supposed to ask "hey, do i have permision to have sex with you?" because that would be weird

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Well no, typically not in that verbage. If you're alluding that it would kill the mood, there's other ways to say it like:

"Are you sure about this?" or any other variation of expressing joy that you're about to have sex (lol) while getting consent. It's not that difficult lol

LionPride said:

NO! Not really!

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Dude, really? If you start making out with another person and at no moment the other person is trying to reject you, why would i ask for permision? I mean, its OBVIOUS the other person is fine with the situation

Goliath said:

At what point do we acknowledge consent? Sexual relations is not a dry legal contract with a notory. Sometimes a touch or look leads to a kiss or more. No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

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Trantorian said:

To be honest, if im with a girl and I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance from her part...what i get is that i have full consent

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LionPride said:

Dawg that's real motherfucking rapey

From both of yall

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I mean have a lot of you not been out to a night club?

"Hey is it okay if I kiss you"
"Hey is it okay if I dance with you"

Sure these are the appropriate good guy responses and I personally try to ask because I don't have that level of confidence atm. But most of the people who end up going home with someone just go for it no questions asked.

Goliath said:

At what point do we acknowledge consent? Sexual relations is not a dry legal contract with a notory. Sometimes a touch or look leads to a kiss or more. No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

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Holy shit. You should read this back to yourself again and again until you understand what you just wrote.

Shit, I kind of like her music. Had no idea she was on The Voice. Hope it isn't true but it probably is. Halsey, be good.

thermopyle said:

Well no, typically not in that verbage. If you're alluding that it would kill the mood, there's other ways to say it like:

"Are you sure about this?" or any other variation of expressing joy that you're about to have sex (lol) while getting consent. It's not that difficult lol

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But this is a perception problem: what if i feel i have permision but the other person dont really wanna do anything BUT doesnt try to evade from me? how im i supposed to read that?
I mean, there are some people that get nervous or shy or whatever doing these kind of things, its how they are and thats is. I wouldnt understand thats rejection. I mean, rejection is obvious.

"Someone told me stay away from things that aren't yours"

Well....at least listen to your own lyrics.

FullMetalx said:

I mean have a lot of you not been out to a night club?

"Hey is it okay if I kiss you"
"Hey is it okay if I dance with you"

Sure these are the appropriate good guy responses and I personally try to ask because I don't have that level of confidence atm. But most of the people who end up going home with someone just go for it no questions asked.

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This. You would be instantly turned down by a girl in a club if you approached her like that haha

Goliath said:

At what point do we acknowledge consent? Sexual relations is not a dry legal contract with a notory. Sometimes a touch or look leads to a kiss or more. No always means no but without that, consent is left up to interpretation as long as there is no struggle.

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Look. I see what you're doing here, but stop it. If someone makes up hella excuses to not fuck, consent isn't left up to interpretation. "I have a boyfriend", "I'm tired", even "I'd rather not." Just because they didn't fight you OR say no flat out doesn't mean you got consent. You got the opposite of that already.

I get that people don't wanna be compared with rapists but uhh....the cure to that is to stop being rapey, not expanding the definition of consent until it fits weird scenarios.

Asked my 19 year old daughter if she knows who Melanie Martinez is...

Her response: "Yeah and I'm not surprised"

This was just interesting to me for some reason.

Trantorian said:

Dude, really? If you start making out with another person and at no moment the other person is trying to reject you, why would i ask for permision? I mean, its OBVIOUS the other person is fine with the situation

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What if the other person is afraid? I'm 6'4 and 230 lbs, and if I start kissing on a woman she may be hesitant to push me away. A lot of them would, but say it's someone I've been cool with for awhile and she really values our friendship and is afraid to outright reject me, or say I have a tendency to get violent when I don't get my way.

It's not that simple.

FullMetalx said:

I mean have a lot of you not been out to a night club?

"Hey is it okay if I kiss you"
"Hey is it okay if I dance with you"

Sure these are the appropriate good guy responses and I personally try to ask because I don't have that level of confidence atm. But most of the people who end up going home with someone just go for it no questions asked.

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Funny you say this. I saw an interview on one of my favorite podcasts The Brilliant Idiots that men should maybe ask if a woman wants to dance at a club instead of just grinding against them.

Trantorian said:

Dude, really? If you start making out with another person and at no moment the other person is trying to reject you, why would i ask for permision? I mean, its OBVIOUS the other person is fine with the situation

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And if you started making out with someone and they were like ewww go away creep, then you just committed assault so are you willing to take that chance?

Some of the posts in this thread...

Trantorian said:

Dude, really? If you start making out with another person and at no moment the other person is trying to reject you, why would i ask for permision? I mean, its OBVIOUS the other person is fine with the situation

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FullMetalx said:

I mean have a lot of you not been out to a night club?

"Hey is it okay if I kiss you"
"Hey is it okay if I dance with you"

Sure these are the appropriate good guy responses and I personally try to ask because I don't have that level of confidence atm. But most of the people who end up going home with someone just go for it no questions asked.

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If I can ask a girl who I'm hooking up with, that I met through Tinder, "Ay you cool with this" y'all can too. I do it to make sure my black ass ain't gon get caught up in some bullshit.

Even with my exes, we'd be making out and I'd ask if they were okay just because guess what? I like makin sure people are comfortable

Goliath said:

as long as there is no struggle.

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Trantorian said:

I start kissing and then doing other things without a hint of resistance

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...

are you guys hearing yourselves

Trantorian said:

It depends because some people tend to be cold and not very "active", so you can never know. Am i supposed to ask "hey, do i have permision to have sex with you?" because that would be weird

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Read this and tell me if Timothy was cold and not very active instead of Melanie being insensitive and forceful.

Some of you clearly don't get out. People don't always ask, it's all body language, reciprocation and the moment/situation.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

Stop trying to twist people's words just because he used (or didn't use) a word you didn't like, it's clear what was meant.

Can someone clarify this for me:

Is Timothy a ciswoman named Timothy, or a transwoman?

Grim said:

Some of you clearly don't get out. People don't always ask, it's all body language, reciprocation and the moment/situation.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

Stop trying to twist people's words just because he used (or didn't use) a word you didn't like, it's clear what was meant.

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Big fuckin' difference between reading affirmative and excited body language and fuckin' buffalo bill over here with: "as long as there is no struggle"

Trantorian said:

But this is a perception problem: what if i feel i have permision but the other person dont really wanna do anything BUT doesnt try to evade from me? how im i supposed to read that?
I mean, there are some people that get nervous or shy or whatever doing these kind of things, its how they are and thats is. I wouldnt understand thats rejection. I mean, rejection is obvious.

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Ya gotta understand that that lack of reaction/evasion does not mean consent. If they're too shy or nervous to speak up and say they want it or don't want it, go the cautious route and keep your hands to yourself. If it means missing out on a hook up or whatever, too bad. And I don't know of any girl who just...lies there or won't verbally confirm that they're into it unless they're sloshed bordering on passed out. In which case....yikes, every guy should know better.

Grim said:

.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

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Obviously??? LOL Obviously not, or we wouldn't be in this situation.

Maybe y'all should grow up and get with other adults that aren't afraid to speak.

LionPride said:

If I can ask a girl who I'm hooking up with, that I met through Tinder, "Ay you cool with this" y'all can too. I do it to make sure my black ass ain't gon get caught up in some bullshit.

Even with my exes, we'd be making out and I'd ask if they were okay just because guess what? I like makin sure people are comfortable

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I dont know man, maybe its how things work here in my country (Spain), but you more or less get the idea if she's in the mood or not. Asking something would probably be taken as weird and create an anticlimatic situation. Again, im talking about my country, i dont know how things work in USA

Trantorian said:

This. You would be instantly turned down by a girl in a club if you approached her like that haha

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Probably for the best since you shouldn't be taking any women home until you understand how consent works.

Grim said:

Some of you clearly don't get out. People don't always ask, it's all body language, reciprocation and the moment/situation.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

Stop trying to twist people's words just because he used (or didn't use) a word you didn't like, it's clear what was meant.

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No one is twisting his words. Also, the whole thing doesn't even make sense in this thread because Timothy said she told her no, for hours, but that she broke down in the end and let it happen.

Grim said:

Some of you clearly don't get out. People don't always ask, it's all body language, reciprocation and the moment/situation.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

Stop trying to twist people's words just because he used (or didn't use) a word you didn't like, it's clear what was meant.

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Bruh they said as long as there's no struggle/resistence

That's real different than talkin bout positive body language

I like how people always say "Obviously some of you don't get out" as if that's true because some people like making sure of shit ahead of time.

My black ass is in the mountains with racist ass white people, yeah imma make sure I'm in the clear before tryna smash

Grim said:

Some of you clearly don't get out. People don't always ask, it's all body language, reciprocation and the moment/situation.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

Stop trying to twist people's words just because he used (or didn't use) a word you didn't like, it's clear what was meant.

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The lack of response does not mean consent. This is the same bullshit some states tried to pull that said if they didn't fight, it meant they consented. This is obviously bullshit, because sometimes the brain just kind of shuts off during trauma.

You guys should educate yourself instead of thinking you can speak on these subjects.

Shy/nervous is one thing, but someone who wants to go forward with things will at least try to reciprocate, even if she's shy or awkward about it. If a girl is withdrawing from an encounter by either not reciprocating at all, trying to make small moves to get away, or mentally checking out from the situation, she is likely uncomfortable. Pressing on in such a situation is not cool at all.

If you're not sure if she's comfortable, ask if it's okay to keep going. If she does not answer or if she doesn't seem into it, take that as a no.

The point is, you're not supposed to be looking for resistance. You're supposed to be looking for a desire to continue. No response is not consent. You're not supposed to think "She didn't specifically say no, so therefore I can keep going". You should be going "Is she acting like she wants to keep going?" If the answer is anything besides yes, then stop.

LionPride said:

Dawg that's real motherfucking rapey

From both of yall

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Such hyperbole. There are clear physical indicators if someone is into or not but at a certain point if the person is not into it they have to give SOME indicator. Saying no, pushing away, etc.

There are many verbal or none verbal ways to protest the action. Unless the person has power over you or threatened you before, if you go along with the act, how is that rape?

Grim said:

Some of you clearly don't get out. People don't always ask, it's all body language, reciprocation and the moment/situation.

Obviously if someone attempts to kiss a girl and she pulls back, he's not going to continue for force the issue.

Stop trying to twist people's words just because he used (or didn't use) a word you didn't like, it's clear what was meant.

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This, for god's sake