The Deuce (HBO)

Shy · Oct 30, 2017

dead souls said:
Awesome finale. Nearly jumped up off the couch when Clarke Peters popped up. Big Chief!

........ Wut ? Tonight's episode is the finale ?

*sigh* this season really flew by.

caffe misto · Oct 30, 2017

I'm a little behind but I have this whole thing DVR'd. I'm gonna catch up this week. Just like everyone else, it's hard for me to believe the season is over.

lucebuce · Oct 30, 2017

LESTER!!

Sgt. Demblant · Oct 30, 2017

That was a great finale. Vincent really is an interesting character, maybe the best Franco has ever played.
All the scenes with Ruby were fantastic.
It's gonna be a long wait until season 2.

Cornballer · Oct 30, 2017

Matt Zoller Seitz on the finale for NY Mag: The Deuce Is a Hard Show to Watch, But It's Also Hard to Look Away

enzo_gt · Oct 30, 2017

Lester!

I enjoyed the season quite a bit, I think I'm invested enough to carry through into a Season 2.

grounded_dreams · Oct 30, 2017

Yep superb finale to a solid season. David Simon can do no wrong in my eyes, man is a genuis.

D i Z · Oct 30, 2017

Finale already? I'm still on ep 3 and loving it.

Ignatz Mouse · Oct 30, 2017

This might not be a popular opinion, but I don't think Franco's acting in this is that good. Apart from smacking the mafia guy, mostly I see the same few notes from him.

I think he's a better director on the show than actor.

Dmax3901 · Oct 30, 2017

Great season. I think overall the only thing that didn't click with me was the student turned bar tender love interest for Vincent. Her character never really interested me and the whole sticking it to daddy stuff was weak, just not a very likeable character.

I love the way they introduced Maggie's brother. We'd heard hints but never worked out what had happened there.

Spiritual_Chaos · Oct 30, 2017

This might be off-topic and not refer to the same thing, but what does "deuce" mean? Likw in the KISS song where Simmons sings "Baby, if you're feeling good. And baby if you're feeling nice. You know your man is workin' hard. He's worth a deuce". Is it "He's worth a shit", or "He's worth a BJ" or what?

Cornballer · Oct 30, 2017

Spiritual_Chaos said:
This might be off-topic and not refer to the same thing, but what does "deuce" mean? Likw in the KISS song where Simmons sings "Baby, if you're feeling good. And baby if you're feeling nice. You know your man is workin' hard. He's worth a deuce". Is it "He's worth a shit", or "He's worth a BJ" or what?

It refers to 42nd St in Manhattan.

curi0usBystander · Oct 30, 2017

I've finally seen the finale. I've enjoyed the ride. And also It was nice to see Clarke Peters again.

Sloane · Oct 30, 2017

Cornballer said:
- Sepinwall interview: 'The Deuce' Creators Explain That Stunning Season Finale

Interesting to read about the three seasons plan, didn't know they are going to jump that far ahead. Sounds fascinating on paper although it makes me retrospectively question a bit whether each major character we've seen had an at least somewhat interesting arc or gave us a unique perspective on the world.

And, yeah, gimmick aside, Frankie felt a bit pointless other than unwillingly being the catalyst most of the time.

Wracu · Oct 30, 2017

Need more than 8 episodes in future seasons. The characters and city are so good I could just watch forever. 13 pls

Captjohnboyd · Oct 30, 2017

Sloane said:
Interesting to read about the three seasons plan, didn't know they are going to jump that far ahead. Sounds fascinating on paper although it makes me retrospectively question a bit whether each major character we've seen had an at least somewhat interesting arc or gave us a unique perspective on the world.

And, yeah, gimmick aside, Frankie felt a bit pointless other than unwillingly being the catalyst most of the time.

Yeah I hope we don't lose any of the development these characters had. It was already pretty sparse in parts. I do think the show is more big picture though and these people are just a window into the usual Simon milieu: economic inequality, race relations, big powers holding down the little people and being as corrupt as anyone etc.

As for Frankie he may have been one note but considering these twins were based on real people I'd say he probably was just how he is in real life with a little artistic license.

Wracu said:
Need more than 8 episodes in future seasons. The characters and city are so good I could just watch forever. 13 pls

The season FLEW by for me. I didn't expect to love it as much as I did. I'm so happy it was renewed. Best show on HBO right now if you ask me

Deleted member 412 · Oct 31, 2017

Wracu said:
Need more than 8 episodes in future seasons. The characters and city are so good I could just watch forever. 13 pls

Yup, felt like we barely scratched the surface. So, so, so good.

Sgt. Demblant · Oct 31, 2017

As frustrating as it is that this season is already over, I'm glad it was only eight episodes. I don't want them to dilute what they have. It was just as long as it needed to be. I'm intrigued by the time skip though, and I wonder how they'll deal with the characters aging.

yado · Oct 31, 2017

I had no idea that was the finale, lol. Didn't feel like one.

Ignatz Mouse · Oct 31, 2017

yado said:
I had no idea that was the finale, lol. Didn't feel like one.

I agree, except for that montage. Classic Wire outro right there.

Now I am wondering if I should watch Treme in the wait between seasons.

Cornballer · Oct 31, 2017

Ignatz Mouse said:
Now I am wondering if I should watch Treme in the wait between seasons.

It's excellent, though it's also a slower burn than The Deuce. Well worth your time and probably flows a little better under binge watching. Generation Kill is great, too, if you haven't seen it yet.

dead souls · Oct 31, 2017

Everyone should watch Treme. It's an amazing show and the music is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good.

BlueTsunami · Oct 31, 2017

That pool hall scene. So fucking good. Hey, hey, hey, keep it fair fellas, one at a time?

And yeah people need to give Treme a chance. You end getting really invested in the characters, all of them.

Cornballer · Oct 31, 2017

Maggie Gyllenhall NPR interview about The Deuce

Cornballer · Oct 31, 2017

Variety: Two TV Critics Talk About Season 1 of 'The Deuce'

Ignatz Mouse · Oct 31, 2017

Cornballer said:
Variety: Two TV Critics Talk About Season 1 of 'The Deuce'

I like how her asking for a Producer role mirrors Candy's attempts to exert more control over her own life.

kingocfs · Oct 31, 2017

This has been Maggie's best work, IMO. That scene with Redman...wonderful stuff.

BLEEN · Oct 31, 2017

Ignatz Mouse said:
His mentor.

Also Lester Motherfucking Freamon on The Wire, one of my favorite characters on that show.

That was Lester?! Oh maan, gonna have to rewatch that.

Edit* AND the season is done? Damn, that didn't seem like a bookend at all. Oh well. Enjoyed the hell out of it.

Cornballer · Oct 31, 2017

- The Ringer: How 'The Deuce' Predicts Modern-Day New York

The David Simon and George Pelecanos series finds the seeds of gentrification in the grit of '70s Times Square

Disco · Oct 31, 2017

kingocfs said:
This has been Maggie's best work, IMO. That scene with Redman...wonderful stuff.

Wrong rapper bruv

metsallica · Oct 31, 2017

Wait, the season is over? I was traveling, missed the last two episodes. Gotta catch up! Arguably the best show on TV right now.

kingocfs · Oct 31, 2017

Disco said:
Wrong rapper bruv

lmao my bad

RatskyWatsky · Oct 31, 2017

Cornballer said:
- Sepinwall interview: 'The Deuce' Creators Explain That Stunning Season Finale

Some interesting bits:

Let me add one thing about aging the characters over a 14-year span, George and I took a great delight in having people express an initial and naive wonder that we cast a 37-year-old actress (Margarita Levieva) as a college junior. But when you look at the idea of the character having to go 14 years from that point, and that the actor in question can actually play that span with a good deal of credibility, maybe we actually had a better plan than people gave us credit for. There was a lot of wonder about why we would cast in these terms, but we actually had to think about what the span of ages were. It highlights the real production trick of this, which is we have actors who we need to be able to go a span of 14 years, so who can play what age span in their life? Are we going to be able to age them properly? If you cast someone who's older than their part in the first season, you have some benefit later on, and if you cast somebody younger, you're going to have to make it up later. We're going to be shooting people within 3 years for a 14-year span, so whether or not you cast younger or older, what you're really doing is saying, "What's the physicality of this actor, what's their range, can they do this?" It becomes much more of an interesting dynamic of production.

Was there a real-life incident akin to what happened to Ruby?

Pelecanos: Ruby lived above the Hi-Hat, and she did have a traffic light in her window. Green meant she was open for business, yellow meant she was occupied, and red was, "I'm closed." Some john threw her out of her own window, and nobody really knows what happened. Which is why the way we present it, we don't have this big build-up with the john. It's just a guy who picks her up, and we've seen it in little bits and pieces of the season, of johns getting rough with the prostitutes, and this was the ultimate example of somebody who was completely psychopathic and dangerous, and he killed her. We don't really explain it, but that's what happened to her, and she did go through the awning of the Hi-Hat, and some of the conversation that was related to us that a couple of guys that worked there were saying, "We've got to get a new awning now." It was kind of cold. I love the fact, that we constructed, that Candy is driving to the premiere, and she tries to call out the window to her friend who's getting into the car with that john, and Ruby doesn't hear her. Candy is passing by, she's never going to be on that corner again.

Leon's (the diner owner) not in the finale. Should we assume he's not going to be one of the people we see again when we jump to the late '70s?

Pelecanos: Don't assume that Leon is not coming back. That's six or seven years, he shot a pimp, which a lot of people consider to be a society cleanse, including judges and juries. So Leon may not be away for too long. Plus, it's Anwan Glover. He comes with us.

Our goal is to make Frankie a little deeper. David and I read the comments, and we know that some people say that he's just turning into comic relief. It's easy to do that because it's a fun character, but we want to give him more depth, too. Hopefully, in season two, you're going to see more dimension to him. The real story of this guy is that he did go to some dark places. I think that's where we're going to take him.

The Wire usually had 12 or 13 episodes per season, Tremé had a variable length, and so have your HBO miniseries. How did doing eight feel for you, and what's the plan for the episode count next season?

Simon: Right now we're working with eight, and that is what HBO wants. If I had to say, could we have done more work and found meaningful with ten, I think ten would have been a better number. There were certain storylines where they should have expanded by two or three or more scenes if we had the room. I felt the same way on many shows, which is to say you write to the resources you have, and make sure the most important things are retained, and the things that you can bear to lose, you lose.

What's an example of something where you wish you had those two or three more scenes?

Simon: We had one sequence where we see Paul explore some of the pitfalls of the gay bar scene in the Village, with the mob ownership, with the raids. We see a little more of his interest in a club of his own, explored through his own travels. That sequence could not be achieved in the time that we had. It was what it was. You want to do more tell, don't show. We didn't have the production ability to get that done. And then we wrote a scene where he talked a little about what was going on, but then we realized we wrote a scene where he talked about what he'd seen, and it's just laying there, and we can't make this work. For this kind of storytelling, where there's so much set-up and not much payout, 10 is better than eight, 12 is better than 10. At 12, it imposes just enough discipline that you don't start to go slack. But these are decisions made above my pay-grade, and you get what you get and you don't get upset. It's already an extraordinary amount of money to make a television show, and have faith in it and advance it. I'm not saying this with any bitterness at all. You ask for what resources are available, and you do the best you can.

Do you have more plans for Paul going forward?

Pelecanos: His storyline's gonna get bigger now. We're going to go downtown with it, where he's got a point of view. It takes us to the Village and the downtown gay scene. and when we get to the third season, we will get to when AIDS came to New York. And hopefully, we'll deal with it in a different way. I have some ideas about it. But we've also hired Carl Capotorto, who was a writer on Vinyl and an actor on The Sopranos. He came out in the '70s in New York as a young gay man. He lived through it. We recognize in the same way that we wanted more women on the show, we recognized that we needed some more help in that department. We got a really good writer, and he's been excellent in the writers' room, so that's going to help us go into Paul's world deeper as well.

Ero'Doge · Oct 31, 2017

Damn. Just finished the last episode. Quite the engaging show, and definitely a show I'll recommend.

Cornballer · Nov 1, 2017

- Collider: 'The Deuce' Star Lawrence Gilliard Jr. on Working with David Simon & His Experiences on 'The Wire'

Beans · Nov 1, 2017

This show is absolutely fantastic myself and the wife love it.

Chris McQueen · Nov 1, 2017

The 70's never interested me in any way, shape, or form. What George Pelecanos and David Simon did with this drama and the period setting is nothing short of amazing. The cast, direction and attention to the tiniest detail, from beginning to end, had me in complete awe.

Dash · Nov 1, 2017

If it wasn't for The Handmaid's Tale, this would be my television show of the year.

lush · Nov 1, 2017

Fantastic first season, can't believe it's already over. As soon as you hear the title theme/end credits you know it is a David Simon production. It just has that "lived in" quality to it that really immerses you in the world. Gyllenhaal killed it for me, the entire cast really. My favorites were C.C., Darlene, Eileen, and James Franco with both roles. Love that it doesn't get overly dramatic unless the plot calls for it/allows for positive things to happen where other shows would go the opposite route (Ashley escaping in a nice farewell ep.). Really interested to see what they do with the time jump to the 80's. Also, RIP Ruby, hate that was the end for her.

Double also, did Cornballer maker it over? He made the original OT and many other TV OTs, great poster.

Nista · Nov 1, 2017

I enjoyed the Corner and the Wire, so I had good feelings about enjoying the Deuce. It was great to see some of my old favorites in new roles.

I knew the minute that I saw Ruby on the HBO go episode screen that she was toast, and I gave the screen many rude gestures when it happened. I hate knowing anything about the real life inspirations for Simon drama characters, the ending to Show me a Hero made me just as angry and depressed.

Looking forward to seeing the 80s NYC that I was too young to experience.

caffe misto · Nov 2, 2017

I finished the fifth episode today.

The scene with Rodney and and Candy on the street corner was powerful. They way he switched on a dime from trying to bring her in to taunting her when she refused felt scary and real. Great acting from both of them.

see5harp · Nov 2, 2017

I don't know how this is a slow burner. The pilot was incredible and the ending was bone chilling.

Ignatz Mouse · Nov 2, 2017

caffe misto said:
I finished the fifth episode today.

The scene with Rodney and and Candy on the street corner was powerful. They way he switched on a dime from trying to bring her in to taunting her when she refused felt scary and real. Great acting from both of them.

Best scene of the season, IMHO. And shows what kind of skills it takes to be a pimp, and how strong you have to be to be solo.

RatskyWatsky · Nov 2, 2017

lush said:
Double also, did Cornballer maker it over? He made the original OT and many other TV OTs, great poster.

Scroll up

lush · Nov 2, 2017

RatskyWatsky said:
Scroll up

Good look and bad on me for not reading through the thread to see it.

Solo · Nov 3, 2017

Awesome finale, awesome season. It's either this or Twin Peaks at the top of the 2017 TV pile.

Spiritual_Chaos · Nov 3, 2017

Cornballer said:
It refers to 42nd St in Manhattan.

In the song too?

kitzkozan · Nov 3, 2017

Dash said:
If it wasn't for The Handmaid's Tale, this would be my television show of the year.

Absolutely agreed, I was hooked and I had no reason to care about the source material beyond curiosity. Going for 8 episodes was the right call as it kept the show lean.

kingocfs · Nov 3, 2017

"You go it alone, come a dark hour you are alone"

caffe misto · Nov 3, 2017

kingocfs said:
"You go it alone, come a dark hour you are alone"

So good.

The Deuce (HBO)

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