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Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,857
Japan
Can I come back to the Mermaid quest with another Emperor? I don't have the ingredients to make the potion right now and it seems like it involves delving into events I don't want to get into yet. I have the "sea sparrow's nest" and intend to keep it in my vault until I go to the savanna.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
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Oct 25, 2017
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Marukoban

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Oct 29, 2017
2,298
I've been using the same classes throughout the game. What classes do people think are the best? I appreciate it may be somewhat personal but are there better mages Than the court mage for example?

Court mage has average-ish spellpower and low speed.
For spellcasters you would want to consider:
1. Crusader F - slow, but durable and have high spell power
2. Iris - Fast heavyhitter spellcaster, drawback is they only specialize in aerology
3. Tactician - Very very good spell level (3 element instead of usual 2), fast, average-ish spell power except for Koumei who is probably the best spellcaster in the game

Can I come back to the Mermaid quest with another Emperor? I don't have the ingredients to make the potion right now and it seems like it involves delving into events I don't want to get into yet. I have the "sea sparrow's nest" and intend to keep it in my vault until I go to the savanna.

Yes you can. I started mermaid quest with an empress and come back a generation later with an emperor to finish the quest.
 

Deleted member 18857

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Oct 27, 2017
4,083
Isn't Wall of Fire also very useful for one of the 7 heroes and final boss?
Is it? I'ver never used it...
I wouldn't be surprised if that was a very useful strat that I have missed and had to plan around without thinking about it even after all those years, though.
IS it against the attacks of Wagnas or Subie?
 

Marukoban

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Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Is it? I'ver never used it...
I wouldn't be surprised if that was a very useful strat that I have missed and had to plan around without thinking about it even after all those years, though.
IS it against the attacks of Wagnas or Subie?

It's both. It raise your resistance to cold and heat to 128 (you will be invulnerable to both).
Basically it negates maelstorm and all heat based spells from Wagnas.
I'd say top 2 fusion spells are Elixir and Wall of Fire. The rest are whatever.
Though fusion spells are also very useful to level up spell.
Stone Shower + Diamond Dust + Heat Wind = you cover 5 spells in 1 turn and all of them very good against random encounter too.

Edit: I forgot there is Light Wall too. It halves all incoming damage. Spells in SaGa are really OP as hell.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
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Oct 25, 2017
14,713
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Can somebody list the names of the fusion spells? It's hard to keep them all straight because I keep hearing new names and I don't know which two spells are required to unlock them.

And to confirm, to unlock them, you need a character with two complimentary magic spells at level 15 or 25?
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Can somebody list the names of the fusion spells? It's hard to keep them all straight because I keep hearing new names and I don't know which two spells are required to unlock them.

And to confirm, to unlock them, you need a character with two complimentary magic spells at level 15 or 25?
Will have to leave their localized names to someone else, 'cause I haven't unlocked many of them yet.

It's when your global level hits 15/25, though, not individual character levels. Global levels increase by the full value of points a fight gives at the end as long as the element has been used but require a lot more to level up, whereas individual character proficiency levels increase faster but the points are divided between the actions used in the fight.

Basically, you want to try to use as many elements as possible at least once per battle to maximize global level growth.
 

Deleted member 18857

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If you're not sure what your level is, at the start of a generation, simply hire the 4 elemental specialists, look at their levels, then reset. Or if you're already playing with, say, a character who started with Fire as their default spell and you leveled it up a bit since they joined, their current level should be your general level in that element. Obviously, if your emperor has been focusing on one or two elements last time, they should be the current highest wielder of that element.
Once you have unlocked the fusion spell, you can do whatever. Teach the two elements to your dumbest character, and even if he's level 1 in both elements for some reason, he will be able to learn the spell.
 

Marukoban

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Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Can somebody list the names of the fusion spells? It's hard to keep them all straight because I keep hearing new names and I don't know which two spells are required to unlock them.

And to confirm, to unlock them, you need a character with two complimentary magic spells at level 15 or 25?

You can find information from here FAQ/Walkthrough, which I got from Gyoru earlier in this thread.
Though the spell name might not exactly match ingame, you can at least get some idea of fusion spells.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
So I discovered that I permanently missed the Monk class because I didn't talk to a NPC beforehand.

I am not amused.

*sigh* OK, how to New Game + this game... (assuming this won't screw me over in the long run because of global level or something else).
 
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Oct 27, 2017
488
So I discovered that permanently missed the Monk class because I didn't talk to a NPC beforehand.

I am not amused.

*sigh* OK, how to New Game + this game...
You can New Game + for it, but do note that you'll still be able to access other characters with martial artist spark profiles and there's a LOT of missable stuff in the game some of which is mutually exclusive, so don't get too hung up on it. There's a lot of randomization at play and the game's designed for multiple rather varied playthroughs. Individual characters and even entire classes are relatively disposable resources, so long as you're constantly making your kingdom collectively stronger and furthering its shared knowledge of weapons and magic.

http://saga.wikia.com/wiki/Tech_Spark_Types
Brawlers are just a set of stat templates and a sprite attached to characters with relatively high HP/LP and Type 00 and 01 spark profiles for skill learning. There are 00s and 01s in other classes.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
OK. That's less frustrating. Thank you very much for the clarification!

So, in Gen I, I asked for the Magical Facility to be built. I started Gen II, but no such building in sight. I guess I have to wait a little more?
Also, are some magic types mutually exclusive? Ie. one character can't have both Fire and Water magic?

Finally: the emperor/empress can't be moved in the formation, or is it just the Imperial Cross where the emperor/empress is stuck in the middle?
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
488
OK. That's less frustrating. Thank you very much for the clarification!

So, in Gen I, I asked for the Magical Facility to be built. I started Gen II, but no such building in sight. I guess I have to wait a little more?
Also, are some magic types mutually exclusive? Ie. one character can't have both Fire and Water magic?

Finally: the emperor/empress can't be moved in the formation, or is it just the Imperial Cross where the emperor/empress is stuck in the middle?
It's to the upper left in town once it's built, there's a pathway leading to a new screen. If building hasn't finished it should after a couple of fights. Your chancellor will tell you when it's done if you talk to him, alongside updates on what major scenarios are available.

Opposing elements are mutually exclusive, yeah. Non-opposing elements each have two combination spells you can learn per pair once your kingdom's collective understanding of magic (which determines starting proficiency on new characters, with individual modifiers) reaches rank 15 and 25 for both elements. There's also a dark element, but it's one of the mutually exclusive things that requires you handle a scenario a specific way later in the game and give up access to other things in exchange.

Your ruler can't be moved in formation, but different formations handle their fixed slot differently. In some they're the tank, in others they're heavily protected.

Most formations are learned by having a ruler of a specific class and talking to the squad leader in the training hall. Not every class has one. The biggest standout is the Privateer class (which you'll unlock early or mid game), which grants a formation that forces the entire party to act before any enemies do. The male Crusader grants a standard 3 in front, 2 in back formation with the emperor up front which I've had a lot of luck with too.
 

Deleted member 426

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Oct 25, 2017
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So is the best place to grind that new dungeon? I think I might be in my penultimate generation. Anyone know how to get to it?
 

Marukoban

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Oct 29, 2017
2,298
So is the best place to grind that new dungeon? I think I might be in my penultimate generation. Anyone know how to get to it?

New dungeon is only good to grind if you are behind, otherwise I find just fighting monster in normal dungeon will do.
Obviously new dungeon give you chests so that might put it ahead of other grinding option.
To access new dungeon:
Go to Morbellum and talk to a guy on the pier. He will mention about dungeon in South Rongit. This should unlock Maze of Memories near Atlanticus.
For Maze of Memories, you'd want to do Red Orb first to get Ninja and Black Orb to get Diviner.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,857
Japan
So I discovered that I permanently missed the Monk class because I didn't talk to a NPC beforehand.

I am not amused.

*sigh* OK, how to New Game + this game... (assuming this won't screw me over in the long run because of global level or something else).

My game fucked up and registered me losing the fight even though i won.

Yes you can. I started mermaid quest with an empress and come back a generation later with an emperor to finish the quest.

Thanks!
 
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Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
I'm really confused right now.

So, this is my fifth time restarting the game because I kept learning things that I wanted to put into action from the outset. I started a new run and it was my best one yet. Tons of excellent Sparks, great enemy drops, great heir options, etc. It's basically been a perfect run.

When the time jump for Gerard originally happened, I immediately sat on the throne and initiated the construction of the magic university and the orchard. I've done this every time and every time the expansions have been built promptly. But I just cleared the Canal Fortress and had my first 85 year time jump and the expansions aren't there. They still haven't been built.

Is something wrong? Is something broken? Why have I completed all these quests and the two expansions still not been built? I'm pretty stressed out about this because this was my perfect run! Am I just misremembering when these expansions appear? Will they show up after I complete another quest with an heir character?

I wanted to teach my units magic immediately and start training for fusions and Stone Shower but I can't do that if the college is missing.

Does anyone have any insight on this?
 

Steve Tyrone

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
59
I find the title interesting since Saga Frontier 2 is the best game from Square. If only it was re-released.

Anyway what's the general consensus on this game? Plays and runs well?
 

dipship31

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,179
Looking at jumping into this, but reading through the thread seems like it could be a bit daunting and this would be my first game in this series. Any general tips for a newbie going in? Also sounds like there's ways to play the game that could really screw you by the end. Any tips on what to avoid doing?
 

Marukoban

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Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
I'm really confused right now.

So, this is my fifth time restarting the game because I kept learning things that I wanted to put into action from the outset. I started a new run and it was my best one yet. Tons of excellent Sparks, great enemy drops, great heir options, etc. It's basically been a perfect run.

When the time jump for Gerard originally happened, I immediately sat on the throne and initiated the construction of the magic university and the orchard. I've done this every time and every time the expansions have been built promptly. But I just cleared the Canal Fortress and had my first 85 year time jump and the expansions aren't there. They still haven't been built.

Is something wrong? Is something broken? Why have I completed all these quests and the two expansions still not been built? I'm pretty stressed out about this because this was my perfect run! Am I just misremembering when these expansions appear? Will they show up after I complete another quest with an heir character?

I wanted to teach my units magic immediately and start training for fusions and Stone Shower but I can't do that if the college is missing.

Does anyone have any insight on this?

To finish expansion, you just need to do 15 battles.
Canal quest has no battle at all aside from 1 boss battle.

Looking at jumping into this, but reading through the thread seems like it could be a bit daunting and this would be my first game in this series. Any general tips for a newbie going in? Also sounds like there's ways to play the game that could really screw you by the end. Any tips on what to avoid doing?

The game is the most forgiving out of all SaGa I've played.
You can't screw up that much because death has no penalty and the global level ensure your party will always be up to par as long as you don't run away from battle too much.
2 tips for beginner:
1. Start training magic early (spam every battle) and build magic research center as soon as possible. This can be done by having 25mp on your emperor and sit on your throne to get the option. Earliest possible window is when Gerard wear the gold armor. Also Gerard can learn fireball if you talk to Court Mage F when Leon has audience with Orieve.
You'll also want to train every single school of magic so cast all once a battle.
2. Don't purposely try to fight all enemies, but at the same time don't avoid all too. I've had few tough battles because I tried to sneak around too much.

Not much need for a guide. Quests tend to be straight forward, but they do give options and various ways to clear.

Slightly OT, but any veterans in here know if Romancing Saga 1 on PS2 is still worth playing today?

leder imo Romancing Saga: Minstrel Song is the most polished and fully realized SaGa game. It's a great remake of the original
 
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leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
Slightly OT, but any veterans in here know if Romancing Saga 1 on PS2 is still worth playing today?
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Looking at jumping into this, but reading through the thread seems like it could be a bit daunting and this would be my first game in this series. Any general tips for a newbie going in? Also sounds like there's ways to play the game that could really screw you by the end. Any tips on what to avoid doing?
Keep in mind that New Game+ lets you retain a lot of the stuff you did if you mess up so horribly that there's no recourse, and also that the game's designed in a way that expects you to stumble blindly and mess up to the extent that being TOO efficient can actually stop the broader scope of progression from aligning properly and leave you in awkward positions sometimes.

Basically just sort of go with it and don't worry too much.
  • Use magic a lot. As much as you can. Try to use as many elements at least once in any given fight as you can without killing the pacing of the fights.
  • Individual characters are disposable. They die when they run out of LP, and that's fine, because you can replace them with another person from an infinite supply of constantly regenerating party members. The skills they learn will be passed down to future generations, and all progress they make with magic will contribute to your Kingdom's collective knowledge of that element. They're all gonna die of old age after a few storylines completed anyway, so don't get too attached.
  • When you recruit someone, they'll tell you what they're good at. Listen to them. It's not necessarily the ONLY thing they're good at, but they'll definitely be good at it. If you need to refresh your memory, check their weapon and magic proficiency, 99% of the time they're good at everything they have proficiency in, with the most talent for the thing that's highest.
  • Don't grind for hours on weak enemies. Also don't actively obsess over trying to avoid enemies.
  • If something's too hard, go somewhere else and explore a bit. The game's very open and there will always be multiple scenarios available to you at a time.
Feel free to come back and ask questions. In 1993 you'd do it in the classroom. Now you can do it here.

Slightly OT, but any veterans in here know if Romancing Saga 1 on PS2 is still worth playing today?
If you like SaGa games, yes. Absolutely. It's fantastic. It's very different from RS2 in a lot of ways, but very enjoyable.
 
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Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
SaGa Frontier 2 remains my favorite game of his. Such a rich and beautiful game, it really was one of a kind. I spent countless hours on that game, and replayed it whole 4 times at least (the first playthrough being ruined because I was wholly unprepared for the final boss, and, well, you can't backtrack once you engage the final scenarii).

Anyhow, I just began Gen 3. Let's see what will happen in this one.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,783
Game has been patched further, and now has patch notes on Steam:

December 26, 2017 Patch Notes
DECEMBER 27 - ICHIKAWA
Fixes and Additions

* Added a "Mouse Button Display [ON/OFF]" option to the environmental settings menu.
* Released the Online Manual.
* Fixed an issue in which it was not possible to properly progress in certain events.
* Made various other minor fixes and improvements.

Thank You.
Romancing SaGa2 team.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,736
SaGa Frontier 2 remains my favorite game of his. Such a rich and beautiful game, it really was one of a kind. I spent countless hours on that game, and replayed it whole 4 times at least (the first playthrough being ruined because I was wholly unprepared for the final boss, and, well, you can't backtrack once you engage the final scenarii).

Anyhow, I just began Gen 3. Let's see what will happen in this one.
I still have never beaten SaGa Frontier 2, but it's also my favorite. It's so goddamn hard (I think the furthest I got was banging my head against that final tactical battle where you basically have to survive for 8 turns), but man if it isn't just intriguing. I'll keep giving that game a shot at least once a year until I finally lose my IRL LP.
 

Deleted member 18857

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Oct 27, 2017
4,083
Slightly OT, but any veterans in here know if Romancing Saga 1 on PS2 is still worth playing today?
It's top 3 Saga games and PS2 games. I hope now that SQEX is done HD-ing FF10 and 12, they'd do Minstrel Song next.

That's odd, I feel like I hit that easily, but maybe not!
Thank you for the info, I'm not panicking now.
I believe there's a slight bug if you create something (like the Orchad) before the previous order is complete, it resets the timer of the previous thing, so you need 15 more battles to get it. If you're still worried, just save, go do 15 battles (start one, run away, push against the same enemy, repeat), go check that your magic school is there, reset.
But honestly, you shouldn't stress so much about getting everything RIGHT. It's a game build around learning from your failures, and it's also pre-"you need to buy the guide book to understand what the fuck is going on". It's inevitable to miss stuff. There's one choice that you need to make at one point between two things that exclude each other, and there is never any way to have both at the same time (and you can also get neither). The remake was the occasion to maybe mend it, but Kawazu repeatedly said "no, it's the whole point of the quest to make you lose something gain something". You will never have a perfect party, and it's OK. Don't put too much pressure on yourself.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,736
Slightly OT, but any veterans in here know if Romancing Saga 1 on PS2 is still worth playing today?
Also yes. It still can be obtuse at times, but for the most part everything is explained a LOT better than RS2, and the presentation is delightful. One of the few SaGa games I've actually finished.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,783
Romancing SaGa for PS2 is great. It's a shame it was overlooked during that era. I remember it hitting rock bottom prices fast. My only complaint with that game is that generally the scenarios are too long. It took me somewhere between 40-60 hours to do my first character (Gray). I kind of checked out after doing one, because it felt long. Perhaps others were shorter, but for example in SaGa Frontier, the longest a character ever took me was around 20 hours, with most of them ranging from 5-15 hours long.

Still, it would be excellent to have a remaster of that game. I'd buy it in an instant.
 

Deleted member 18857

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About the PS2 game: it's worth adding that while RS2 is better enjoyed without guides or the internet, Minstrel Song is extremely complex and REQUIRES external help to be properly enjoyed. Not to the point of being unplayable like U:Saga, but close.
MilkBeard : Unfortunately, all characters take roughly the same time in RS1. They just have a slightly different starting point and quest. The difference is that, while there's no real NG+, continuing on the same save data allows to gain progressively more crystals, so each new play through becomes gradually easier (I think the crystals you get increase with the amount of quests you have finished, and this number is the only thing that's brought forward). Also, starting on the second play through, you unlock a new character to hire that's slightly stronger than the others. Nothing major unfortunately.
 

Hecht

Blue light comes around
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Oct 24, 2017
9,736
About the PS2 game: it's worth adding that while RS2 is better enjoyed without guides or the internet, Minstrel Song is extremely complex and REQUIRES external help to be properly enjoyed. Not to the point of being unplayable like U:Saga, but close.
MilkBeard : Unfortunately, all characters take roughly the same time in RS1. They just have a slightly different starting point and quest. The difference is that, while there's no real NG+, continuing on the same save data allows to gain progressively more crystals, so each new play through becomes gradually easier (I think the crystals you get increase with the amount of quests you have finished, and this number is the only thing that's brought forward). Also, starting on the second play through, you unlock a new character to hire that's slightly stronger than the others. Nothing major unfortunately.
I'd agree. At the very least using a guide to help open up the world and then to also know which quests are locked behind battle rank (like 90% of the quests you can do at any time, but there are a few that lock early on).
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,783
Yeah, I assumed like any SaGa they usually have some kind of slight aid when doing characters successively. And once you know the world from the first character, I'm sure you could cut down time by quite a bit.
 

Marukoban

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Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Minstrel Song was not only overlooked during PS2 era, it was also critically panned by reviewer.
In a way SaGa game tend to be too much ahead of its time and people trying this series expecting the norm in JRPG always left disappointed.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
About the PS2 game: it's worth adding that while RS2 is better enjoyed without guides or the internet, Minstrel Song is extremely complex and REQUIRES external help to be properly enjoyed. Not to the point of being unplayable like U:Saga, but close.
MilkBeard : Unfortunately, all characters take roughly the same time in RS1. They just have a slightly different starting point and quest. The difference is that, while there's no real NG+, continuing on the same save data allows to gain progressively more crystals, so each new play through becomes gradually easier (I think the crystals you get increase with the amount of quests you have finished, and this number is the only thing that's brought forward). Also, starting on the second play through, you unlock a new character to hire that's slightly stronger than the others. Nothing major unfortunately.
Thanks everyone. Are there any guides online you would reccomend that don't spoil too much?
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
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Periodically, in my combing of ancient online guides that operate on fan localization efforts, I see people referring to holding R to block. What is this about? There's no live-blocking, right? I'm not missing some sort of crucial mechanic, am I?
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Periodically, in my combing of ancient online guides that operate on fan localization efforts, I see people referring to holding R to block. What is this about? There's no live-blocking, right? I'm not missing some sort of crucial mechanic, am I?
Sounds like the whole holding down and B (or was it A?) to make a pokeball work better situation to me. I'm pretty sure shields are just the listed chance to apply their defense bonus to the appropriate damage types with no unique mechanics attached.

If there WAS anything more going on there would've had to be UI elements to facilitate it in the mobile version.
 

Deleted member 18857

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The SFC version had three very handy shortcuts that were taken off the remake for some reason : R automatically selects "block" (so you don't have to scroll through your weapon list to find it) and L automatically selects retreat for the emperor. L+Select resets the game and brings you back to the front page.
They were the same in RS3 (even better there because all characters could initiate retreat, not only the MC).
I have no idea why they were taken out, I'm sure everyone used them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Ah, yeah, that'd explain it. So they just never added the shortcuts back in to the console backports of the mobile port that couldn't have those shortcuts to begin with, then. That's a shame, those would've been super convenient. Especially since R and L only serve to duplicate what dpad left and right do in the current combat UI.
 

GaimeGuy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,092
Well I'm at the final emperor. No black magic, only 2 combo spells researched, no brawler, mermaid, thief, bard, or other classes.

Current party is Amazon + pirate/armed merchant, diver, and a mage
 

Deleted member 426

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Does anyone have a recommended setup for the final battle? I'm currently upping my magic levels going through the maze. It's relaxing.
 

coiledviper86

Member
Dec 22, 2017
12
Does anyone have a recommended setup for the final battle? I'm currently upping my magic levels going through the maze. It's relaxing.

Protection from temptation is a must because it comes out quite often. Give temptation evasion to all male party members. I believe Demon stone ring also protects a male member. Other methods of protection is bringing an all female party and/or add some non human party members. Everyone should have soul steal evasion too.

You should also try to spark the final techs by fighting Albions in Wylinga lake.
 

CloudCircus

Member
Dec 9, 2017
819
I'm in the second generation and went straight to the gem mines. A few of the monsters there are way too difficult. Should I do other quests firsts, or is the gem mine the easiest?
 

Marukoban

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Oct 29, 2017
2,298
I'm in the second generation and went straight to the gem mines. A few of the monsters there are way too difficult. Should I do other quests firsts, or is the gem mine the easiest?

Gem mine is one of the easier scenario actually.
The thing with this game is monster difficulty can vary even at a particular time. For example early on you have chance to encounter nosferatu, which is brutal at low level. There's no shame to escape from tough enemies.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
What are the 'Things I wish I knew before I started' of this game? Gonna start it up soon and it seems quite daunting.