Btw, those 2 Chappelle Netflix specials are up
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Obviously calling someone a fraud is a negative position, and that's not something I'll do. Would you say that holding a position founded in biology (biological sex) even silently... is the same as calling someone a fraud vocally? Would the former be transphobic? At this point, I'd love the opportunity to rethink my own views... As I've never had this discussion with anyone, let alone someone transgendered.
Shows my proficiency on the matter lol. Thank you.
Well my position socially is that you're what you identify yourself as, and that it'd bother someone has always puzzled me. Biologically, I do make the distinction (and leave it there, unvocalized)...so wandering into this thread had me questioning if that makes me transphobic. That horrifies me and it's something I'd like to confront head on.
Even if you aren't voicing a bigoted view, it doesn't change what your views are. If you feel that we're not real women because of biological sex, then that's a transphobic view. Its not the same as voicing it vocally, but views like those don't exist in a vacuum. They paint how you interact with us, how you see us obviously, and leads to other problems.
you believe that you're born a man or woman (determined by your genitals) and that's the way it'll stay. that is your sex, as defined by your biology and that won't change.
but you would respect if someone of the male sex wanted to identify as female.
am i correct?
Phobia here isn't used as phobia but more as an ist as in sexist or racist... just the way language evolved on that front.
You're absolutely being transphobic if you insist trans women aren't women and trans men aren't men.
Yes, but I'd only expand to include "reproductive system, chromosomes" with genitals. Is there a better place to discuss this topic? Don't want to completely hijack this one.
ok, now i have a question. if you knew someone was transwoman, in your mind would there be a distinction between her and a cis (non trans) woman beyond the fact that you know one was born male and one was born female?
Yeah, I'm going to make a big thread for questions about trans people, just taking time to think it through and get good sources and stuff. These questions really don't deal with the specials
One of my best friends is a trans black woman and she's made similar comments about being trans as it relates to being white. Something like that always seems more acceptable in American society if white people want to do that thing. That's an unfortunate reality of American society.
Hmm.
My thread was closed. Oh well.
I'm sorry for continuing this then, Chappelle fans. :( Believe me when I say I'm truly sorry.
Arguing against trans women being women through biology...isn't a good idea. For one, it demonstrates a rather poor understanding of biology. Mutations happen quite often and hormonal conditions are more common than we tend to think.
Actually studying a diverse range of human body types reveals why this is such a poor argument.
1. Sometimes when people are born they don't have male genatalia, but "suddenly" grow it as they grow older due to the lack of an enzyme in utero. See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...age-where-little-girls-turn-into-boys-aged-1/
Choice quote:
2. Sometimes women are born with vaginas but have XY and not XX chromosomes. Are these also not women?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MedicalMysteries/story?id=5465752
Choice quote:
3. Sometimes there's active gene deletion going on that can turn girls with XY chromosomes into boys due to a lack of SRY. http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061009/full/news061009-14.html
TLDR: Life, and to that extent, biology, is infinitely complex. The universe is more complex than you think. It's ok to say,"I don't know" but arguing that trans women aren't women from a biological perspective is showing a profound misunderstanding of the material within a very, very limited scope. Don't argue biology. Just don't do it. That said, we aren't biologically female. You're right about that. Well, most of us. Not like my friend with androgen sensitivity who transitioned at like 13. That chica has a uterus. Most of us were men and transitioned to women. Otherwise, if we were biologically women why in the fuck would we transition to begin with? But the important thing is that because we are biologically male doesn't necessarily mean we are not women.
And alas, here we at the end of the post. Arguing chromosomes and shit in a mother fucking comedy thread. When did the trans community become such bullies?
My thread was closed. Oh well.
I'm sorry for continuing this then, Chappelle fans. :( Believe me when I say I'm truly sorry.
Arguing against trans women being women through biology...isn't a good idea. For one, it demonstrates a rather poor understanding of biology. Mutations happen quite often and hormonal conditions are more common than we tend to think.
Actually studying a diverse range of human body types reveals why this is such a poor argument.
1. Sometimes when people are born they don't have male genatalia, but "suddenly" grow it as they grow older due to the lack of an enzyme in utero. See: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...age-where-little-girls-turn-into-boys-aged-1/
Choice quote:
2. Sometimes women are born with vaginas but have XY and not XX chromosomes. Are these also not women?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MedicalMysteries/story?id=5465752
Choice quote:
3. Sometimes there's active gene deletion going on that can turn girls with XY chromosomes into boys due to a lack of SRY. http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061009/full/news061009-14.html
TLDR: Life, and to that extent, biology, is infinitely complex. The universe is more complex than you think. It's ok to say,"I don't know" but arguing that trans women aren't women from a biological perspective is showing a profound misunderstanding of the material within a very, very limited scope. Don't argue biology. Just don't do it. That said, we aren't biologically female. You're right about that. Well, most of us. Not like my friend with androgen sensitivity who transitioned at like 13. That chica has a uterus. Most of us were men and transitioned to women. Otherwise, if we were biologically women why in the fuck would we transition to begin with? But the important thing is that because we are biologically male doesn't necessarily mean we are not women.
And alas, here we at the end of the post. Arguing chromosomes and shit in a mother fucking comedy thread. When did the trans community become such bullies?
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then imo you're not a transphobic person. the reason you see people got banned in this thread is because while some of them wanted to think they didn't see a distinction, they actually did
You're welcome. Nice, cold, hard facts. No emotion. No "justice". Just real talk.
Ditto.
Its better to stay rational and educate rather than flat out issue bans.
Now back on topic, I'll probably watch later on tonight, hope this thread isn't closed anytime soon.
These were hilarious. His criticism of Trump was way more creative and hilarious than I expected.
The trans thing... he treated it like he treats any other racial group. I think his explanation that as a policy he never feels bad for what he says on stage makes sense, but I thought it was heartfelt how he said the letter from a trans fan got to him and made him think.
Loved both shows, hope he does more.
The trans thing... he treated it like he treats any other racial group. I think his explanation that as a policy he never feels bad for what he says on stage makes sense, but I thought it was heartfelt how he said the letter from a trans fan got to him and made him think.
Loved both shows, hope he does more.
Don't tone police people and accuse an oppressed group of being "bullies" for not tolerating bigotry, it's not a good look.
He got something like 20 million for the first two specials, and i think another 20 million for these. They're definitely throwing money at him lol, it's insane money.
I appreciate you posting the information so I don't have to do it myself, but you really didn't need to end with this.
He chain smokes in the 2nd special and is vaping throughout the first.
Yeah. Lol
When he said his mother was half white, my immediate thought was, "How come we didn't get you in the draft?"
It's something Cindi seems intent on doing from the posts I've seen of them.
Agreed. Any other thread drifting so far off topic would have been locked or course-corrected by now.
1: It was already tried and locked considering it was only made to completely divert (on topic) talk from something that is very much related
2: I see a lot of comments about the special in question.
Got through the first special. Probably the most consistently funniest out of all his specials this year so far.
His trans material was better than the last two as well though I can understand people still not caring for it.
His trans material was better than the last two as well though I can understand people still not caring for it.
Rubbish. Maybe 30 of the 85 posts on this page are related to Chappelle and/or these specials.
I mean I shouldn't have to tell you thqat in this case, shade can be cast both ways lol
User has been banned one month for transphobic content.
I'm genuinely trying to be as cautious as I can saying this (because I don't want to be an asshole or insult anyone), but I disagree that people who think transgender women aren't real women are wrong. How so?
I mean, genetically/biologically/scientifically speaking they simply aren't, that's just a fact. I appreciate that must be a hard thing to accept when you so desperately want to be something you aren't/weren't but you can't just say "I want to be X thing so I simply am, anyone arguing against this or asking how/why is a bad person", that's just not how life works.
What, is a feral little boy raised by wolves, accepted into their pack, eating raw meat, walking naked on all fours, barking and howling, is he a real wolf? Of course not.
Again, I appreciate this can be a hard thing to come to terms with, and I'm not suggesting that transgender individuals should be made to feel in any way unwelcome or uncomfortable, and I think society still has a long way to go in terms of this acceptance.
But the answer isn't a petulant "this is the way it is because I say it is" tantrum, then insisting that you're clearly an awful human being if you think otherwise.
The reality is that "it's biology, deal with it" is a legitimately unintelligent argument to make, because it is incredibly rare that the people making the argument turn out to be actual biologists. Biology does not contradict a trans person's gender because gender is not under the purview of biology.
Then maybe don't suggest that we're frauds or that its at all comparable to someone raised by wolves, like what? Read through this some : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
True.
My lesson to you is when arguing against people who try to use science against us, use science against them. Remember first and foremost that what we have is a medical condition, not an identity. The reason he did not acquiesce before my post is because y'all tend to concentrate too much on identity. The world does not respect identity. The world respects facts and results. Just keep that in mind.
This is the comparison you choose to make in trying not to offend or insult trans people?
I do use science. You will rarely find me being critical of transphobia using just emotion.
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