;P
Iiiiii, think sooooooo. It's been a long time. Sorry.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Shenmue Community |OT| The day the snow turned to rain
- Thread starter Erevador
- Start date
;P
I've come to the realization that I just can't play Shenmue 1 in Japanese... I know it sounds better but because the english voices have always been what I originally grew up with it's always nice to hear the hilarious english phrases every time I play it is always part of why I enjoy the game :P
Hm... I don't remember one but it's been a while.
The main theme does play during the big "call to arms" cutscene before the final(?) boss though, if I'm recalling correctly.
Yeah. One (for the PSOne) was an amazing game. I would've loved more of that.
As I get further and further into Yakuza Zero, I remain astounded people think it'd make sense to use this engine to make a new Shenmue or that the series are that closely related. Yakuza is like a shallow pool next to Shenmue. Nothing's really changed since the first release on the PS2, either. I'm also not really buying into the game's '80s setting. It just feels like Yakuza. I hope Shenmue III doesn't eschew the ability to interact with every NPC you see or go into any building/storefront that might be accessible to Ryo. Shenmue's immersion remains unparalleled in comparison to Yakuza.
Shenmue's attention to detail and interactivity aren't really tied to the engine it uses. A Yakuza game could very easily incorporate those elements of Shenmue without a significant engine overhaul. It's like Shenmue requires a huge, seamless, physics-based open-world or anything like that.
IMO Shenmue 3 should of not used UE4 but the Dreamcast engine :P of course you're entitled to think that is not a good idea because I'd understand why but Yu said he is more comfortable with that programming and it would still keep those models intact. They are kind of struggling
Mm. The engine is irrelevant really, when people talk about Shenmue on the Yakuza engine it's just slightly lazy shorthand for "gimme a Yakuza with a Shenmue skin".
It's annoying when I've seen people lamenting III being on UE4 when there's nothing technologically the Dragon Engine can do better/differently. For an "off the shelf engine", UE4 is the best out there and totally suitable for the needs of the production.
I think actually in one of the Gamescom interviews he flat out said the benefits of the engine outweigh the drawbacks, so I wouldn't say they're struggling.
It's annoying when I've seen people lamenting III being on UE4 when there's nothing technologically the Dragon Engine can do better/differently. For an "off the shelf engine", UE4 is the best out there and totally suitable for the needs of the production.
To this point, there's also been several quotes from Yu about how he enjoys the speed and efficiency of prototyping on UE4, and that the maturity of the tools have allowed for better graphics than he originally envisioned.
I think actually in one of the Gamescom interviews he flat out said the benefits of the engine outweigh the drawbacks, so I wouldn't say they're struggling.
I think gamers care too much about engines because they don't understand much about programming. Sure, if you're using off the shelf things and scripting cookbooks you won't be able to pull off a game like Shenmue well. Luckily, Shenmue 3 is being developed by professionals with modeling, animation, and most importantly programming experience. If there's something YsNet wants to do that UE4 can't, they can surely program the capability into it. I doubt if UE4 was that restrictive it would be so widely used. Although, I say this as a software engineer who works in another field so I don't know the specifics about the Unreal Engine over any other.
I think Shenmue would be pretty cool on the Dragon Engine (used in Yakuza 6 and Kiwami 2), but I do agree that the engine is not terribly important. Yu Suzuki's mentioned some frustrations by not being allowed to alter UE4's baseline code at all. I am sure things would be different with the Dragon Engine.
I just wish SEGA had a more significant role with Shenmue III because I am slightly concerned that the arcade games will just be generic stuff. You gotta have Space Harrier and the like in there! SEGA toy capsules too!
I just wish SEGA had a more significant role with Shenmue III because I am slightly concerned that the arcade games will just be generic stuff. You gotta have Space Harrier and the like in there! SEGA toy capsules too!
UE4 is flexible and you can get pretty into the weeds about learning how it works/making it work better for your game, but it's obviously not as flexible as bespoke software; which has influenced Yu's comments because he comes from that mindset/development environment.
But again, he's praised it to heaven and back enough times too. The efficiency of the engine cannot be understated. If the full story of Shenmue III's development is ever elaborated on, you'll probably see a lot attributed to UE4 making development quicker and easier, and helping stretch the human and monetary resources further. It's what will hopefully help III stand alongside the original Shenmue games despite the significant difference in budget and people working on it.
I don't feel too worried about the mini-games we know will be in III though, even if the arcades end up a little bare. Honestly, I'm more interested in playing the whack-a-mole game, doing the turtle races, and playing pinball than another blast through Hang On.
But again, he's praised it to heaven and back enough times too. The efficiency of the engine cannot be understated. If the full story of Shenmue III's development is ever elaborated on, you'll probably see a lot attributed to UE4 making development quicker and easier, and helping stretch the human and monetary resources further. It's what will hopefully help III stand alongside the original Shenmue games despite the significant difference in budget and people working on it.
It's kind of a crapshoot. SEGA have been pretty open to Yu using IP he developed with them (the VF mobile game, Space Harrier mobile prototype, etc), but there's no way of knowing if they'll allow that stuff into Shenmue III just yet.
I don't feel too worried about the mini-games we know will be in III though, even if the arcades end up a little bare. Honestly, I'm more interested in playing the whack-a-mole game, doing the turtle races, and playing pinball than another blast through Hang On.
Last edited:
Not really no. I'm not really making an argument for what is the best engine choice (when you're sequelling a Dreamcast era game, then basically any modern engine will have your back), I was arguing against your implication that the Yakuza engine would be unsuitable by virtue of Yakuza not doing the same things Shenmue does. That's not an engine limitation.
I think when most people say Shenmue III should use the Yakuza engine, I think they really just mean Shenmue III should have actual input and contrinution from Sega themselves, and be have been developed under a similar budget and development that Yakuza has been afforded since Yakuza 3. I know I've said stuff along the lines of "they could just use the Yakuza engine for Shenmue III" in the past... but that was prior to Shenmue III's actual announcement and subsequent Kickstarter. It was mostly an argument against people claiming that a new Shenmue would cost eleventy bajillion dollars to develop on something resembling a AAA scale (example). It was never intended as a suggestion that Yakuza's engine magically spits out Shenmues in a manner no other engine could.
This is where I stand also, and has always been my position on what direction the game should take if it went the Kickstarter / low budget route. I think the game would generally have been received more leniently if it were deliberately looking to emulate the look and feel of a Dreamcast game, as opposed to the having the expectations of modern development meet the reality of creating yesterday's AAA with today's Kickstarter budget.
EDIT: I should correct myself. I don't think they should have gone with the Dreamcast Shenmue engine itself (that'd be insane), but rather repurpose Dreamcast assets, and make new assets in line with those. Something like UE4 should have been chosen for this task regardless, for the essentially free benefits it would have brought (such as realtime dynamic lighting for the ToD changes). This also would have then potentially benefit any planned Shenmue I & II remasters also.
Last edited:
I'm curious what the original plan was for arcade games in Shenmue III and beyond, since they mostly ran out of Yu Suzuki directed games of the era.
I know using the Dreamcast engine would've been insane... but as this game is very much (paid for) by the fans for the fans I think they could've pulled it off with a minimum amount of backlash.
There would've been something special in literally getting the sequel that we all imagined for all these years (in a replica Dreamcast case so we can line it up with the other two.)
There would've been something special in literally getting the sequel that we all imagined for all these years (in a replica Dreamcast case so we can line it up with the other two.)
They had some room for artistic license, considering that you get a Sega Saturn, and models of characters that wouldn't exist until after the 90's. I'd have just introduced Model 1 games, and have the characters in-game freak out about the 3D graphics, lol.
I don't think using the old engine would have caused fan backlash (I imagine most would find it endearing even). I think that it would have limited their options in terms of improving on areas that the originals were lacking however (realtime lighting as mentioned before). If they were to have created the assets in the style of the originals (and re-used any that were still applicable), then the fact that it isn't the same actual engine would be invisible to the end user.
I personally don't think it would've been a good idea to continue the series in a modern engine, which in this decade is the only realistic option, while aiming for Dreamcast style graphics with minor tweaks (widescreen, draw distances, etc). It can sound appealing when first thinking about it from a nostalgic perspective, but it brings nothing new to the table. You have to realize that you'd be asking Yu Suzuki to turn his first opportunity to head a major project in over a decade, into a retro game he already made years ago, and not try to improve the experience in any meaningful way. For a creator like him who's clearly driven and hungry to innovate as much as he can, he'd surely feel creatively boxed and unhappy with only making a game so limited in ambition. I think the series would be worse off going that route, as the passion for the project from the creators probably wouldn't be the same.
I believe a lot of the pining for a Dreamcast style Shenmue 3 comes from the let down feeling many had with the first teaser released back in August. I expect all involved with the Gamescom presentation have learned their lesson about showing incomplete, in-development footage, and will be bringing clips and screenshots that represent what to expect from the final product at Magic Monaco next month. If they do that, and the footage is impressive, as I think it will be, it should improve the mindshare for this game. That will hopefully erase some of the desire to have a brand new game in 2018 that looks like it was made in the year 1999.
I believe a lot of the pining for a Dreamcast style Shenmue 3 comes from the let down feeling many had with the first teaser released back in August. I expect all involved with the Gamescom presentation have learned their lesson about showing incomplete, in-development footage, and will be bringing clips and screenshots that represent what to expect from the final product at Magic Monaco next month. If they do that, and the footage is impressive, as I think it will be, it should improve the mindshare for this game. That will hopefully erase some of the desire to have a brand new game in 2018 that looks like it was made in the year 1999.
Seriously, if you think people shit on the graphics in August it would have been many times worse if they were still using Dreamcast models.
We saw endless shitposting about how it looks like a PS2/PS3 game, but imagine if it actually did.
Ironically, there are actually some Dreamcast assets in the Gamescom progress video, I guess being used as environmental and object placeholders.
We saw endless shitposting about how it looks like a PS2/PS3 game, but imagine if it actually did.
Ironically, there are actually some Dreamcast assets in the Gamescom progress video, I guess being used as environmental and object placeholders.
I don't know, I feel if they leant into it so to speak then people would just accept it as 'retro' instead. It's really hard to say though.
I was thinking about that the other day too. I do hope Sega allows use of their IPs for capsule toys and the like.
I wish I could see into whatever parallel universe where they took that path so I could know for sure, but I have the overwhelming feeling that it'd just be used as another stick to beat the game with. I just don't think people would accept it readily as retro and judge it on those merits.
If things were the other way around I'm sure there'd be posters wondering if YSnet should have used a modern engine or didn't go with a Dreamcast look. Grass is always greener, etc.
I mean, even though the graphics are unfinished, are these really that ugly people would prefer Dreamcast assets?
It's not going to be to everybody's tastes, but I can't help but look at these and feel more than okay about the direction they're moving in towards a final product.
Sorry for the double post.
We might be getting a Shenmue III-related tease next week at MAGIC's pre-event press conference. I asked Cedric on Twitter if anything from the game would be featured at the press conference and he said:
Not a direct yes, but if it's not a "no"; then there's a shot. The last time Shenmue III was at MAGIC in 2016, Cedric unveiled two or three new screenshots from the newly minted prototype, so there's precedent.
We might be getting a Shenmue III-related tease next week at MAGIC's pre-event press conference. I asked Cedric on Twitter if anything from the game would be featured at the press conference and he said:
Not a direct yes, but if it's not a "no"; then there's a shot. The last time Shenmue III was at MAGIC in 2016, Cedric unveiled two or three new screenshots from the newly minted prototype, so there's precedent.
Hopefully a dedicated team of PC modders can pull this off. Otherwise, this is just a cute idea that would've in no way been beneficial to anyone but the most hardcore fans. I also think there's been a lot of naivety about how easy this would have been to pull off by the team.
There's no fucking way they could use the Dreamcast engine on a modern architecture. It doesn't make sense and would cost a lot more than using Unreal.
You guys really Lan Di'd my fantasy :'(
The glimpses we've seen so far look absolutely stunning to me (character models aside of course) so I'm sure any notion of the game being made in the old engine will be dispelled the second I take my first step.
A feature that might actually work... is the ability to sit down.
Life is Strange had these great moments where you could just sit, contemplate and soak in the ambiance of various locations. Something similar would work extremely well in Shenmue.
Life is Strange example:
The glimpses we've seen so far look absolutely stunning to me (character models aside of course) so I'm sure any notion of the game being made in the old engine will be dispelled the second I take my first step.
A feature that might actually work... is the ability to sit down.
Life is Strange had these great moments where you could just sit, contemplate and soak in the ambiance of various locations. Something similar would work extremely well in Shenmue.
Life is Strange example:
It would be cool if something like sitting down was used to pass time instead of just having time speed up while you stand like in Shenmue II.
Yeah MAGIC seems to be the next instance where we'll get a good look at how the game is evolving. Very much looking forward to it next month.
I'm gonna be bold and predict we're going to see gameplay as part of the MAGIC offerings. I dunno how deep it'll be on a level of showcasing systems, but I'd not be surprised if we got to see some environment exploration, some of the detective gameplay, and maybe some mini-games/jobs.
Cedric made a big thing out of playing the game in early December, and wanting to share cool stuff with us as soon as possible. Once Yu and Shenmue III were confirmed for an appearance at MAGIC, it started to feel like the stage was being set for something.
MAGIC itself isn't a huge event, but it punches above its weight and attracted new screen reveals from Square Enix for FF7R and Kingdom Hearts 3. As Shibuya Productions is an actual investor in Shenmue III there's obviously some sway there to get a bigger reveal, but if the game's promotion is meant to be ramping into high gear then MAGIC seems like a good launchpad for the rest of the year.
If Shenmue III does make this year, I'm really hoping for a PlayStation E3 2018 conference showing, even if it's a short one. Alledgeity PS is helping the project with marketing, and thats one of the best ways to get everyone talking before release.
I would love Shenmue I & II HD for many of the same reasons as the people in this thread. Honestly a recap movie of I & II won't do justice to the legacy of the originals if that's all the newcomers get when they start with Shenmue III. I own Shenmue II for Xbox, and I was happy I had already experienced Shenmue I on Dreamcast, because that Shenmue I movie disc that came with the game was pretty lackluster compared to the real thing.
I would love Shenmue I & II HD for many of the same reasons as the people in this thread. Honestly a recap movie of I & II won't do justice to the legacy of the originals if that's all the newcomers get when they start with Shenmue III. I own Shenmue II for Xbox, and I was happy I had already experienced Shenmue I on Dreamcast, because that Shenmue I movie disc that came with the game was pretty lackluster compared to the real thing.
How will the I & II recaps likely be done? Would they literally capture footage from the Dreamcast games, or would they source the original assets for higher quality and perhaps even try to modernize it with things like proper widescreen?
If Sony are reverting back to a more varied E3 conference that doesn't just focus on AAA games, I could easily see Shenmue III making the lineup as a sort of "king of the indies" position, or alongside other AA games. If III is definitely definitely coming this year (barring any late-stage delays) it's basically a cert considering Sony's obligation to promote the game.
I made another pilgrimage to Dobuita today. Sadly, I couldn't find the Shenmue tourist booklet.
I made another pilgrimage to Dobuita today. Sadly, I couldn't find the Shenmue tourist booklet.
That's really cool.
I know, I know but it's really indicative if by the end of the year we have no gameplay is all I'm saying. Here's hoping Ys Net want to show more this year because I feel like despite the gamescom trailer in 2017 they are hiding a lot especially since that was an old build?
The whole of 2018 is paved with opportunities to show the game, as is the plan according to the update last November.
It's not much of a strategy to just randomly dump gameplay footage at the start of the year to appease internet doubters. Just wait patiently and I'm sure you'll be rewarded.
They definitely shouldn't kowtow anymore to the mob wanting to see something before it's ready. We saw what the result of that looked like in August. It does speak to the deep obligation YSnet feel towards fans, though; and for that reason I wonder if it might happen again.
Buuuuuut at the same time, in the bigger picture we're not too far off some kind of gameplay reveal. They've been play-checking stuff since around summer 2016, we saw further and more advanced looking play-checks in footage from February 2017, the extended Gamescom progress video had QTE events and mini-games, people were shown UI elements and design documents, etc. Couple that with Cedric playing the game in December and being quite vocal and excited about it, and it's not hard to feel like we're rapidly approaching a point where we get to see something.
Genuinely anything could happen at MAGIC.
The ShenmueDojo forum can piss off. I've told them numerous times I am not the guy pestering people on Twitter to fund Shenmue 3 but it is in fact another guy, don't know whats wrong with the moderators there but they seem to ban every new member regardless. I posted on thread here on ResetERA about the guy and what he was doing so PCGames made an article about it after they saw the thread. Doesn't matter anyway not many people are even regular on the Dojo forum.
Hey! You were creating multiple accounts talking to yourself and spamming up the place. And no, we do not ban new members for the hell of it either. Only when they spam and create multiple accounts going on with themselves and generally troll on Twitter. It's kind of embarrassing with you doing things like that.
No you got it wrong. The guy on Shenmue Dojo who made the thread "why aren't sega funding shenmue 3" named "Shenmue_Legend" is the same guy on Twitter (if the thread title never made it so blantantly obvious). I don't use Twitter and if I did I would definitely not associate it with Shenmue like him. I only had one account on the Dojo until it got banned. It is not me. You mods have me confused with our IPs.
Last edited:
So I assume this "50 million" guy is a super troll and not remotely legit then? Would be amazing if Shenmue 3 got such an extreme cash injection like that.
At this point I'm sure Shenmue III has all the funding it needs. If anyone has 50 million lying around though, they should wait until Shenmue IV needs it. Hopefully Shenmue IV doesn't need any outside funding at all.
I don't know what individual their right mind would dump that much money into a sequel to a game they have no connection to. Yu Suzuki couldn't even find a corporation willing to fully back the game until a couple years ago. Not to mention the game is slated to release this year and such a large contribution would probably be a waste at this point.
The shitty thing about this Twitter troll is he's going around telling people he guaranteees Ys Net will pay them back if they invest the ridiculous number he's asking for. Of course I doubt anyone thinks he's anything more than an annoying fanboy, but I hate sharing a community with someone so obnoxious.
Maybe he's just trying to rile people like me up. Look at me wasting so many words on something so silly.
The shitty thing about this Twitter troll is he's going around telling people he guaranteees Ys Net will pay them back if they invest the ridiculous number he's asking for. Of course I doubt anyone thinks he's anything more than an annoying fanboy, but I hate sharing a community with someone so obnoxious.
Maybe he's just trying to rile people like me up. Look at me wasting so many words on something so silly.
Last edited: