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HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
I've read a fanfic where everyone is born colorblind (as in, monocolorblind), but when they meet their ~one true love~ their world explodes into color at first sight. And that's all I remember from it haha

What a strange concept.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Tropes are unavoidable, but clichés aren't. That's my hot take anyway.

Not all tropes are bad, but some tropes are definitely clichés and should be avoided by now.
I'm legitimately unsure how much of a significant difference there is, given that writing itself hasn't really changed all that much. You can find the same tropes and cliches in thousands of years of literature and in any other media really. I don't think either are inherently bad, and it's usually moving against what is popular or common that makes them acceptable (which isn't really new so much as it's just pushing against the times - for good or ill). The danger is more that moving against them doesn't necessarily mean condemnation of them. Which is where a lot of series and designs find their problems.

It'd be nice to see a revolution in design though, where moving against the times meant characters would be sensible and reasonable (including clothing), rather than the rampant idiots they typically are in most game stories.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,909
Nothing creepy about sexing up a robot with the mannerisms and appearance of a child.

You know what else is adorable?

20171211_171911.gif

 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
I see pop artists doing absurdly choreographed dances like that all the time! Don't think it's restricted to anime. :P
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I see pop artists doing absurdly choreographed dances like that all the time! Don't think it's restricted to anime. :P

maybe I'm getting old lol

The last japanese game that had cool dance moves IMO was Space Channel 5 part 2, I guess because it wasnt trying to do these cutesy moves.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Nothing creepy about sexing up a robot with the mannerisms and appearance of a child.

the fact that most gamers are willing to blindly accept this kind of shit without even thinking twice about it makes me want to eat cyanide

(also how can people enjoy these designs. I like a lady in lingerie as much as the next person but I can't focus on the sexy when there's like a million tiny things going on in her outfit, damn)
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
the fact that most gamers are willing to blindly accept this kind of shit without even thinking twice about it makes me want to eat cyanide

(also how can people enjoy these designs. I like a lady in lingerie as much as the next person but I can't focus on the sexy when there's like a million tiny things going on in her outfit, damn)

The problem I fall into is the opposite. Instead of shrugging shoulders and just taking a "it is what it is" attitude I throw my hands up and just refuse to buy anything I'm at conflict with.
Cuts me off from a massive chunk of the game industry, but honestly I still feel like I have tons of choices. I'm pretty much indie only these days.
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802
The problem I fall into is the opposite. Instead of shrugging shoulders and just taking a "it is what it is" attitude I throw my hands up and just refuse to buy anything I'm at conflict with.
Cuts me off from a massive chunk of the game industry, but honestly I still feel like I have tons of choices. I'm pretty much indie only these days.

I've seen enough anime that does the same things (worse ones than that) where it doesn't bother me. If anything, just surprised but I should be.

the fact that most gamers are willing to blindly accept this kind of shit without even thinking twice about it makes me want to eat cyanide

(also how can people enjoy these designs. I like a lady in lingerie as much as the next person but I can't focus on the sexy when there's like a million tiny things going on in her outfit, damn)

It's not that bad. Robots being sexualized was a reoccurring theme in Westworld (great show). Seeing it in anime/gaming isn't world shaking, but thinking about having sex with the characters (like Poppi), I don't support that, but there's other things in life that is worse than having a obscure imagination about a video game character.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
The problem I fall into is the opposite. Instead of shrugging shoulders and just taking a "it is what it is" attitude I throw my hands up and just refuse to buy anything I'm at conflict with.
Cuts me off from a massive chunk of the game industry, but honestly I still feel like I have tons of choices. I'm pretty much indie only these days.
Same, honestly. I skipped XC2 even though it seemed like the kind of game I'd enjoy gameplay-wise, just because the designs are way too much. I have a limited amount of time and money, and I'm not gonna spend either on games that make me even slightly uncomfortable.
It's not that bad. Robots being sexualized was a reoccurring theme in Westworld (great show). Seeing it in anime/gaming isn't world shaking, but thinking about having sex with the characters (like Poppi), I don't support that, but there's other things in life that is worse than having a obscure imagination about a video game character.
The robot part isn't the problem.
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802
Same, honestly. I skipped XC2 even though it seemed like the kind of game I'd enjoy gameplay-wise, just because the designs are way too much. I have a limited amount of time and money, and I'm not gonna spend either on games that make me even slightly uncomfortable.

The robot part isn't the problem.

So the look of the characters put you off?
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Nothing creepy about sexing up a robot with the mannerisms and appearance of a child.


It does bring up another cliche. Like, why would Tora (and possibly Bana) even be attracted to the female human form in the first place? I mean anatomically, humans and Nopon are so different it would be the equivalent of a human lusting after a praying mantis. "Oh their lanky limbs and severe lack of fur turns me on!"

Like if Monolith Soft is going to abandon its dignity like Intelligent Systems did, they might as well fun with it along the way. Make Poppi a Nopon-esque blade and then stick maid fetish on her. Have Bana's secretaries be scantily clad Nopon walking a catwalk. "What dowould teenager rodents with prehensile wings find attractive"

Yes I have too much time on my hands to think this.

but it the upgraded version she's not a child

Technically speaking, the upgrade version is younger. So instead of child, congrats, you're lusting after a toddler. lol
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
It does bring up another cliche. Like, why would Tora (and possibly Bana) even be attracted to the female human form in the first place? I mean anatomically, humans and Nopon are so different it would be the equivalent of a human lusting after a praying mantis. "Oh their lanky limbs and severe lack of fur turns me on!"
You know that this kind of thing in the general sense exists, and is very real. Ever heard of the furry fandom? However, it doesn't change the fact it only shows up in games when the target of lust is to hourglass framed humans as a pitiful excuse to shoehorn such things in
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,420
The English Wilderness
It does bring up another cliche. Like, why would Tora (and possibly Bana) even be attracted to the female human form in the first place? I mean anatomically, humans and Nopon are so different it would be the equivalent of a human lusting after a praying mantis. "Oh their lanky limbs and severe lack of fur turns me on!"

Like if Monolith Soft is going to abandon its dignity like Intelligent Systems did, they might as well fun with it along the way. Make Poppi a Nopon-esque blade and then stick maid fetish on her. Have Bana's secretaries be scantily clad Nopon walking a catwalk. "What dowould teenager rodents with prehensile wings find attractive"

I mean, why does this maid fetish even exist in XB2's world in the first place? I've moaned about this before, but this habit of sticking modern mores in a futuristic setting - or, worse, one completely detached from our world - without even the slightest hint of explanation, commentary or irony strikes me as, well, really kind of lazy and uncreative.

Contrast something like XB2 with Brave New World, or the Culture novels by Iain Banks*, which draw inspiration from familiar concepts, but frame them in the context of their futuristic societies - and then uses them as commentary on our own.

Anime et al can be particularly terrible for this, of course: doesn't matter where your story is set - or how different a culture might be because of that setting - you can guarantee the same familiar stereotypes will be present and correct, all playing out exactly as expected. Redheads are always temperamental! The girl with big tits is always shy and embarrassed! The girl without them is always angry when someone points them out! Etcetera etcetera etcetera.

*Apparently, Iain Banks recently made a 4chan list of SF authors to avoid because of his books' inclusive themes. People can switch gender in the future? BURN ALL THE BOOKS!
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
*Apparently, Iain Banks recently made a 4chan list of SF authors to avoid because of his books' inclusive themes. People can switch gender in the future? BURN ALL THE BOOKS!

Wait...what? Like, isn't the whole point of Sci-Fi is to explore experimental and unknown things, including societies that don't match our own? Why would anyone...right 4chan.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Hilariously, a fair few fans of speculative fiction - in all its forms! - are rather...illiberal in their views.
While some of this has to do with sexism, I tend to think it's the socialist themes that make those people angry. It's difficult to mythologize a speculative reality when so many are about the breakdown of society that naturally occurs at some great expense (usually related to the natural failings of capital).
 

Lime

Banned for use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,266
2018 has a disgusting game on the horizon about how feminism destroyed the world and left a cyberpunk dystopia in it's wake. I'm like WTF are you shitting me?

The games industry had a misogynist hate movement that made national and international news outlets, so nothing surprises me of whatever misogyny spawns out of the reactionary culture of games.

I still don't get that game, so apparently robots have surpassed us in everything. Including creativity so now nobody does anything creative or something?

It tries to shit on universal basic income, i.e. making the dumb libertarian argument that if everybody gets what they need and no longer have to work to survive, everyone ends up being lazy and docile.

It's implicitly an approval on wealth inequality and the notion that people deserve to die if they are not working, because they'll just end up being lazy if they get the basic means to survive.
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
The games industry had a misogynist hate movement that made national and international news outlets, so nothing surprises me of whatever misogyny spawns out of the reactionary culture of games.



It tries to shit on universal basic income, i.e. making the dumb libertarian argument that if everybody gets what they need and no longer have to work to survive, everyone ends up being lazy and docile.

It's implicitly an approval on wealth inequality and the notion that people deserve to die if they are not working, because they'll just end up being lazy if they get the basic means to survive.

Aside from being opposed to the creator I was astounded by how my reaction to nearly every element of the game was NOPE in the most primal way.
 
Nov 6, 2017
224
It tries to shit on universal basic income, i.e. making the dumb libertarian argument that if everybody gets what they need and no longer have to work to survive, everyone ends up being lazy and docile.

It's implicitly an approval on wealth inequality and the notion that people deserve to die if they are not working, because they'll just end up being lazy if they get the basic means to survive.
I'm checking out the vice article and it's this weird act of him setting up a defense that he does support certain ideas following with "but what if it was BADDDD!"
 
Nov 6, 2017
224
I have a terrible feeling the game is going to blow up totally based on the fact that so many gamers seem to have this "good graphics = good game" mentality.
It totally is and it's super dumb.
The game is also exploring a future of augmented reality everywhere, sorta a scenario where the only the main character can see the "true darkness" of society while everybody is distracted by Pokemon Go I guess.
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
It totally is and it's super dumb.
The game is also exploring a future of augmented reality everywhere, sorta a scenario where the only the main character can see the "true darkness" of society while everybody is distracted by Pokemon Go I guess.

If only the protagonist can see the true darkness, does that imply It's a future with only one final gamergate shit head remaining? That's almost a ray of sunshine.
 

Lime

Banned for use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,266
I have a terrible feeling the game is going to blow up totally based on the fact that so many gamers seem to have this "good graphics = good game" mentality.

It'll also be backed because there are a lot of misogynist gamers out there.

and Microsoft and IGN have no issue promoting the game and giving it a platform.
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
It totally is and it's super dumb.
The game is also exploring a future of augmented reality everywhere, sorta a scenario where the only the main character can see the "true darkness" of society while everybody is distracted by Pokemon Go I guess.
the true darkness that you can't be a sexist jerk without consequences, oh wow the horror
It'll also be backed because there are a lot of misogynist gamers out there.

and Microsoft and IGN have no issue promoting the game and giving it a platform.
I think MS at least took quite a few steps away from the game after the E3 showing
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
I'm not! xD It's just silly that they are so oblivious to each other in unviserse. I just find it little weird when some shippers argue over which of the two "pairs" are the best but they are all still using the same two people. Like really?
Ladybug/Adrien is cutest because they like each other so much so they act dorky and adorable when they're around each other ;_; but yeah I hope there aren't actual ship wars about it because that would be.... super dumb lol
 

HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
Ladybug/Adrien is cutest because they like each other so much so they act dorky and adorable when they're around each other ;_; but yeah I hope there aren't actual ship wars about it because that would be.... super dumb lol
I've seen it but I hope people were doing it in jest haha But yeah, Ladrian is adorable, though Ladynoir is the best ship name of the four. :P
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,482
I usually roll my eyes at the problematic anime tropes I see in video games, but in Xenoblade 2, I really started to get annoyed to the point where I still haven't finished the game, and that's never happened before. I don't know if I'm just fed up with all the objectification, or if it's that much worse in Xenoblade 2, but I don't want to see another cutscene of Pyra's bouncing tits or a Rare Blades subservient mannerisms. It's fucking ridiculous.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,909
I usually roll my eyes at the problematic anime tropes I see in video games, but in Xenoblade 2, I really started to get annoyed to the point where I still haven't finished the game, and that's never happened before. I don't know if I'm just fed up with all the objectification, or if it's that much worse in Xenoblade 2, but I don't want to see another cutscene of Pyra's bouncing tits or a Rare Blades subservient mannerisms. It's fucking ridiculous.

I'm actually having this problem with Trails of the Sky (sorry Morrigan ). There is an exhausting amount of "oh you're strong, which is weird cause you're a girl" (that's an almost verbatim line) and just other stuff like wives yelling at their husbands for coming home late and the husband's like ah now you've experienced my wife's yelling too huh, tee hee. I dunno, it's nothing like straight up sexist it's just a bit... dated? Like an old sitcom. Which I suppose makes sense given the original release date.


Reddit is blocked at work, but will check it out later.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
I still don't get that game, so apparently robots have surpassed us in everything. Including creativity so now nobody does anything creative or something?
The sad part is, this idea on its own is a legitimate fear for a lot of people. Arguably even a valid one. Taking pride in one's work, even if it's not creative, isn't bad. Although living for only work is, even if it is creative. Probably. Whatever, nuance. Point is, these oh-so-funny generated Harry Potter books will one day be less comical and more legitimate. Technology is gonna get better and better over time, even at things that currently seem unattainable. I mean, even if it never gets that good, the fear is still there.

So a game addressing that? Not a bad idea! On its own.

But then of course (as already mentioned) he dragged in UBI and feminism and who knows what other bullshit.

Shame the game looks so good.

(I also once had the unfortunate privilege of arguing with Tim Soret on another forum. He claimed that sexism doesn't exist in Paris, and only in America was that really an issue. So was GamerGate really all that bad??)
 
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