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Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Man. I got Gulty Gear Xrd -Revelator- on Steam due to Dragon Ball FighterZ hype. I've never been much into GG (mostly because none of my friends play it either), but man, it's a ridiculously beautiful, coloful and mechanically deep game. I love the crazy and varied character designs so much...

... except for the fact that, with a couple of exceptions (all from the original, nearly two decade old games), every other female character in the game has blimp-sized breasts bouncing around with less cloth covering them than an ant's g-string. I'm fine with one or two "sexy women" in a fighting game, it comes with the territory (in this game, I think I-No is perfect for the role), but why has every single fucking female character introduced in this game have to be like this? The result is that they all blur together, particularly the three Valentine sisters, which have completely different personalities, weapons and looks... except for the massive breasts and cleavages. It completely ruins many of these characters for me, especially ones where it doesn't fit like at all. In a game with such variety, this one common note is made even more dramatically jarring.

Needless to say, I'm thinking of this thread a lot while playing it. I never thought I'd say this, but perhaps it's good that Dragon Ball FighterZ is such a sausagefest.

I think Bailken gets the worst. Like here's Bailken in the original Guilty Gear:

$


Yeah, she has cleavage but it's not terrible. Now let's take a look at how she looks in the latest game:


Why, yes, clearly all women's breast grow exponentially larger the older they get.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,141
Morizora's Forest
I seem to remember Jam being smaller in the older games too. They just went and enlarged most of the characters and it's a bit of a shame.

I don't remember the third Valentine but I did sort of like Ramlethal's designs in some aspects.
 

PtM

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,582
Also, I want to make sure I understand the use of the term Loli correctly: it doesn't matter whether or not a character is actually a 700 year old spirit or something like that, Loli is when a character is represented as being much younger, like a young school girl age, and given qualities that young school girls would have. Is that right?
Not quite.

"Loli" = "little girl". While there are a lot (re: too many) of characters who are written to be older than they look, most of the time the term is simply used to refer to small and cute girls regardless of age. Usually there is sexism and/or sexualization implied in the use of it. Folks who use it willy-nilly are frequently desensitized to the sexualization of young girls' bodies thanks to being in with the fandom. Sadly, that accounts for a distressingly large chunk of the Western-nation-based Japanese content fandom (and an even larger chunk of the Japanese otaku base). Of course, there are also folks who use it dismissively to derogatorily refer to any female characters that happen to look young. I find this annoying and request that folks please just... don't use the term at all if they can help it. "Little girls" or just straight "children" are preferable and don't disguise the fact that we are actually talking about characters deliberately designed to evoke children in their designs and/or mannerisms.

That being said... it really is ingrained to the fandom at this point. Like, seriously, you see it thrown all over anime subreddits and the like. It's basically impossible to avoid. Just one of those things. :/
Lolita: a sexually precocious young girl.
From the name of a character in the novel Lolita (1958) by Vladimir Nabokov
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I think Bailken gets the worst. Like here's Bailken in the original Guilty Gear:

$


Yeah, she has cleavage but it's not terrible. Now let's take a look at how she looks in the latest game:
Why, yes, clearly all women's breast grow exponentially larger the older they get.

Poor Baiken, she got infected with the (Soul Calibur) Ivy virus.

I seem to remember Jam being smaller in the older games too. They just went and enlarged most of the characters and it's a bit of a shame.

Besides size, Jam's are just ridiculous because they're covered by this magically form-fitting plug suit cloth that just makes it seem like she has body paint and nothing else. And of course they bounce around everywhere.

I don't remember the third Valentine but I did sort of like Ramlethal's designs in some aspects.

The third is a new character in -Revelator-, Jack-O.

JackoRev.png


Incidentally, here's her crouching stance, provided without comment:

AnimatedPaltryEft-mobile.jpg


It's really a shame because otherwise their designs and gameplay are top notch. I also like Ramlethal's design a lot otherwise.

If they're handled as well as 18 then i don't see why there shouldn't be more females.

That's a big "if". Originally Android 21 was reported as being big-breasted, which made me roll my eyes, though fortunately it seems to have been a mistranslation.

Toriyama seems to be a mixed bag with his female characters. Besides being nearly non-existent as far as combatants go (probably what makes 18 and the female saiyans so popular), let's not forget one of the first female fighters introduced literally used stripping as her trump card. I'm willing to let that slide since it was the 80's and it was played for laughs, but still.

That said, and even though I've only watched bits of Super, I'm rooting for Kale, Caulifla and Kefla to make it in as DLC. The male / female ratio is kind of ridiculous and it's no wonder ASW decided they needed to add another female character even if they had to make up one themselves. :D I'm willing to assume the female saiyans' absence is due to them being introduced in the latest arc, which has no characters in the game yet, probably due to development times.
 
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Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,614
It's not a rare setup nowadays but even for the standart within that genre it's bad. As someone that used to be in the target group for it, there are some that have good characters and story bits despite the caveats. Stella glow does not.

I've never played Cold steel but i'm a bit surprised that it's bad in that regard. What i've played of trails (with Estelle and co.) had generally good characters.
Rean being a fairly bland lead given a lot of abilities and liked by most people doesn't mean there aren't generally good characters in Cold Steel's cast as one would expect from Trails, though. Having a harem seems like an exaggeration, with the issue being more of taking the modern Persona approach of "player gets to choose who's best girl", with there not being anything conclusive with such storylines until CS II and the outcome not always being a romantic one. Unlike Persona, it's also the case where there's a clear favorite being pushed by the developer when taking both the main story and how things play out in bonding events (S. Link/Confidant equivalents, but no "choose the best response" requirements) into account, even if there still isn't an official couple declared as of yet.

The consensus is that it's indeed a downgrade compared with what was done with Estelle and Joshua, with the closest comparable subplot being far clumsier and infinitely more off-putting.
 
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Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,141
Morizora's Forest

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Incidentally, here's her crouching stance, provided without comment:

AnimatedPaltryEft-mobile.jpg
Coincidentally, that's also the pose I strike both for figuring out how to fix the broken DVD player or intimidating my opponent before preparing for hand-to-hand combat. I've spilt the arse of three good pairs of trousers but it works every time. :D
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I can't speak for the others, but "what does an anime character from 1978 has to do with sexualization discussion in modern gaming" is the first thought that popped into my head. :D

Other than that, it's probably my least favorite Rumiko Takahashi manga, and I'm not a huge fan of the clingy unwanted girlfriend trope (probably the single most repetitive thing in Ranma).

Oh that's not as bad as I was expec-

... Sometimes they don't look so bad in the artworks. So I guess Ram is still my favourite Valentine though I'll stick with using Millia forever probably.

Exhibit B: Her win pose:
KSOprx4.gif

She basically wipes her ass on the camera! :D
 
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Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,404
I don't know if Zero Suit is mysogynistic or not, but I can say with certainty that it's piece of shit design that is completely at odds with the tone of the series. Samus should not look like a cheesy pin-up Power Ranger.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,555
It is pretty telling that although Overwatch has the highest female to male ratio of any shooter, there isn't a single female pro on any of the teams.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,914
JP
I can't speak for the others, but "what does an anime character from 1978 has to do with sexualization discussion in modern gaming" is the first thought that popped into my head. :D

Other than that, it's probably my least favorite Rumiko Takahashi manga, and I'm not a huge fan of the clingy unwanted girlfriend trope (probably the single most repetitive thing in Ranma).



Exhibit B: Her win pose:
KSOprx4.gif

She basically wipes her ass on the camera! :D
Lol, I don't know how you people put up with these games. I guess it's a blessing in disguise that I don't enjoy Arcsys fighters.
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
Holy shit.

As an asexual I'll never understand the appeal... "That's right, I shit from here!" *Rubs her ass in my face like a cat*

Appeal or not aside, most fighting games these days feel like they have little "porn break" moments between rounds and it makes playing them really awkward. It's so not necessary in a game and makes playing it in proximity to other people embarrassing.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I know it's a bad thing that the sheer number of examples of sexualised/objectified design this thread is awful, but I do kinda like the way it means we never run out of examples to critique either...
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,033
It is pretty telling that although Overwatch has the highest female to male ratio of any shooter, there isn't a single female pro on any of the teams.
Last time I played overwatch about a year ago quick play had at least one piss gamer for every game that complained over my potg as bastion.

Also, from the other thread that for whatever reason there's very few pro level female players
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,326
Women could make up 75% of players and developers would still be aiming games at adolescent boys...
I think that's more because quite a few of the people who design characters for these games only ever learned how to design for adolescent boys. The cynic in me believes the designers basically are adolescent boys, but they themselves don't have the wherewithal to realize it. And of course, how disturbingly insular the video game industry is.
 

ThankDougie

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,630
Buffalo
Lolita: a sexually precocious young girl.
From the name of a character in the novel Lolita (1958) by Vladimir Nabokov

That I knew (Lolita is actually one of my favorite books of all time - not about what most readers think it is about, though one might say "a young girl perceived as sexually precocious" is more accurate), but someone earlier in the thread suggested that my use of the term with respect to Ys VIII was off. Seems the term has gained some additional meaning.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Women could make up 75% of players and developers would still be aiming games at adolescent boys...

To be fair, there's also the fact that most 'hardcore gamers' go out of their way to ignore any games that are for either women or the casual market and pretend they don't exist. There are examples of franchises that are catered to women (two of my personal favorites being Style Savvy and the Nancy Drew games), but they tend to be ignored at best and scorned at worst by the hardcore crowd. The fact that Nintendo is "wasting their talent making a girly game" is just indicative of how toxic hardcore gaming has been.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903

If we went by video games on how women work:

- Breasts never stop growing bigger and that's how you determine age
- Women periodically for no reason at all break their backs to do sexy poses
- If they're confident, than their a dominatrix

and etc, etc,

Actually, I want to take a little sidetrip (though somewhat gaming related) and talk about cosplayers as people sometimes come in here and barge in screaming how whether of cosplayer wearing a sexy outfit is "objectifying". Ignoring the usual complaints, I have an acquaintance who does cosplay who feels like she says that many female cosplayers feel forced to do sexy cosplays rather than other designs because that is what makes the most money. Even then the harrasment they get from said sexy designs, usually people screaming for free nudes or threats of rape, makes many cosplayers feel like it isn't worth it, even if it may be a project they want to do. So I do feel like people making the "but what about cosplayers" excuse never really realize that the cosplay industry also has a sexualization problem compounded by many designs being objectified.
 

gela94

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
180
I'd like to see an RPG where the post game content is warmly and lovingly spending the rest of your days growing old with the main quests love interest. They were not some prize to be won. They were your soulmate on the battlefield and off. Your equal.
Maybe that's building the perfect home together.
Maybe that's bird watching together.
Maybe that's joyfully raising children together. Then you could port one of your children into the sequel to be the new protagonist.

You can find some of that in Harvest Moon games or Rune Factory :) But I agree, I also wished that in games it wouldn't be about the sex but about a real romantic human relationship, it would makes things so much more interesting.
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
If we went by video games on how women work:

- Breasts never stop growing bigger and that's how you determine age
- Women periodically for no reason at all break their backs to do sexy poses
- If they're confident, than their a dominatrix

and etc, etc,

Actually, I want to take a little sidetrip (though somewhat gaming related) and talk about cosplayers as people sometimes come in here and barge in screaming how whether of cosplayer wearing a sexy outfit is "objectifying". Ignoring the usual complaints, I have an acquaintance who does cosplay who feels like she says that many female cosplayers feel forced to do sexy cosplays rather than other designs because that is what makes the most money. Even then the harrasment they get from said sexy designs, usually people screaming for free nudes or threats of rape, makes many cosplayers feel like it isn't worth it, even if it may be a project they want to do. So I do feel like people making the "but what about cosplayers" excuse never really realize that the cosplay industry also has a sexualization problem compounded by many designs being objectified.

Big media has heavily covered and helped expose real sexual threats in the film, television, and music industries. We could stand to have that attention for the video game, comic, and anime/manga industries too. The world needs a good scrubbing and re-education.
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802
Most of the time, it's because writers and designers just don't know how to create a female character. They aren't friends with women, they don't work with women, they don't speak extensively with women, and their most regular exposure to women and femininity comes from media written by other men designed for men to consume. This happens a lot in male-dominated societies. When the only women you speak to extensively are the ones you're sleeping with, you become unable to portray or even understand women in any other context beyond your attraction to them.

So when writers start laying out a story, they automatically write characters as male. They don't even think about it. When the story needs a best friend or a manager or a shopkeeper or police officer, they are automatically male whether the author is consciously creating them as such or not. This is how entire stories get written without a single female character (Lawrence of Arabia, for example, features no speaking female characters whatsoever). But most writers are conscious enough to realize they haven't written any women, so they add one. Because the only way they understand female characters is in relation to the male ones they've already created, the female character usually becomes an accessory. A wife, a daughter, a love interest, etc. This is why, famously, most women who have won Oscars win them for playing wives. This is also why women often don't talk to each other or share scenes with each other because they're only there for male characters to talk to. This is how their roles are written.

And since the first thing male writers usually think about women is how hot they may or may not be, it comes through in the writing almost immediately. There is a funny, and also sad, Vogue article about this phenomenon here that mostly focuses on an entire Twitter dedicated to female character intros in scripts written by men. Here is an example:



Even men capable of writing terrific, complex, and interesting characters fall into this trap of writing shitty women because they so strongly associate them with sex that they don't know any other way to introduce them.

When it comes to video games, which are often designed independently from a legitimately ambitious story, characters are designed with even less connective tissue. The player becomes the stand-in for a male main character, even when a male main character exists, so the designers write roles for how they relate to an assumed male player. This is why they are disproportionately young girls who need protecting or sex objects for lusting over (or both).

Truthfully, female character designs and legitimate female characterizations have gotten way better over the last few years. But the problems they've always faced, in every medium, still persist. There are sexualized female characters that are still good and interesting leads (Bayonetta, 2B) and there is absolutely a place for characters like this. The issue is proportion, or more accurately disproportion, and how frequently overly objectified female are there specifically to ellicit erections instead of emotions.


I think in most places of video game development, that's the reoccurring issue. In Japan, I believe it's due to the way of the old Japanese style when it comes to their female designs. That and it's a big part of manga and anime, so I don't see that changing much. I agree with games like Bayonetta or Nier with 2B, it's part of their character, but for others, I myself as a supporter of feminism, see it and just roll my eyes and how over-the-top female designs has become. I'd like to see or hear about more female game devs in the industry. One of my favorite female game devs was Nikki Wolfkill from 343 back when Halo 4 was releasing.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Ignoring the usual complaints, I have an acquaintance who does cosplay who feels like she says that many female cosplayers feel forced to do sexy cosplays rather than other designs because that is what makes the most money
Can I just ask, how do the more popular cosplayers make money from it, is it from videos of making the costume or something? I initially thought it was just a fun community/hobby thing but clearly it's much bigger and there's more to it than that!
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Can I just ask, how do the more popular cosplayers make money from it, is it from videos of making the costume or something? I initially thought it was just a fun community/hobby thing but clearly it's much bigger and there's more to it than that!

According to my friend, Patreon is currently the best for consistent income. They make money in other ways, such as selling the props they make from their costumes or winning costume constests. However, given how...toxic the audience can be at times, the best money comes from those who will expose their body either in cosplay or on the camera. Titilation sells and many of the higher ranking cosplayers have videos and pictures for high ranking Patreon members when they have more risque stuff for them. And, of course, if they want to do that its great, but for some people who don't want to do it, it sometimes feels like it is required in order to make money. And then there are those who think because these people expose themselves on camera they are looking for sex and will harrass them with dick pics and other unpleasantness.

Big media has heavily covered and helped expose real sexual threats in the film, television, and music industries. We could stand to have that attention for the video game, comic, and anime/manga industries too. The world needs a good scrubbing and re-education.

Agreed.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
I think that's more because quite a few of the people who design characters for these games only ever learned how to design for adolescent boys. The cynic in me believes the designers basically are adolescent boys, but they themselves don't have the wherewithal to realize it. And of course, how disturbingly insular the video game industry is.
I think that a big part of the problem is the normalization of sexualization. Artists don't even seem to be doing it on purpose; it's just that emphasizing sexual characteristics is one of the de facto ways of conveying female characters. The other side of the equation is that "female" is widely considered to be an aspect of characterization the way that "male" is not - the Smurfette Syndrome in action.

I think in most places of video game development, that's the reoccurring issue. In Japan, I believe it's due to the way of the old Japanese style when it comes to their female designs. That and it's a big part of manga and anime, so I don't see that changing much. I agree with games like Bayonetta or Nier with 2B, it's part of their character, but for others, I myself as a supporter of feminism, see it and just roll my eyes and how over-the-top female designs has become. I'd like to see or hear about more female game devs in the industry. One of my favorite female game devs was Nikki Wolfkill from 343 back when Halo 4 was releasing.
And this is the part that doesn't help things. Not only is the video game industry very insular, but a great portion of the art design either comes from Japan or is influenced by Japanese works. In a way it's a good thing, because Japanese art has never been reluctant to place female characters into starring role, so it probably helped to convince Western developers to give female protagonists a chance.

However, this is offset by how Japanese society doesn't have a conversation about representation. All of the things that we're discussing here are basically non-issues in Japan, and it's not uncommon for tons of female characters to be designed primarily for the male gaze. And this stuff ends up normalizing sexualization in the video game industry.
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802
I think that a big part of the problem is the normalization of sexualization. Artists don't even seem to be doing it on purpose; it's just that emphasizing sexual characteristics is one of the de facto ways of conveying female characters. The other side of the equation is that "female" is widely considered to be an aspect of characterization the way that "male" is not - the Smurfette Syndrome in action.


And this is the part that doesn't help things. Not only is the video game industry very insular, but a great portion of the art design either comes from Japan or is influenced by Japanese works. In a way it's a good thing, because Japanese art has never been reluctant to place female characters into starring role, so it probably helped to convince Western developers to give female protagonists a chance.

However, this is offset by how Japanese society doesn't have a conversation about representation. All of the things that we're discussing here are basically non-issues in Japan, and it's not uncommon for tons of female characters to be designed primarily for the male gaze. And this stuff ends up normalizing sexualization in the video game industry.

I agree with the Japanese influence on female designs in the West. However, I don't see it as massively shameful as it used to be.
Big media has heavily covered and helped expose real sexual threats in the film, television, and music industries. We could stand to have that attention for the video game, comic, and anime/manga industries too. The world needs a good scrubbing and re-education.

In anime and manga, there's a slight difference. Some female characters are presented that way due to their personality (no defending it, but there's a reason why there are different types of girls (shoujo, tsundere, yanderes, etc) that somewhat explains why one female character has big breasts and stuck up, or some may be smaller and petite. I will admit it is more hyperbolic for women than men, but tbh a lot of those characters are designed by male and female artists, so we can discount the fact that some female artists prefer those characters to be designed that way.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,752
In anime and manga, there's a slight difference. Some female characters are presented that way due to their personality (no defending it, but there's a reason why there are different types of girls (shoujo, tsundere, yanderes, etc) that somewhat explains why one female character has big breasts and stuck up, or some may be smaller and petite. I will admit it is more hyperbolic for women than men, but tbh a lot of those characters are designed by male and female artists, so we can discount the fact that some female artists prefer those characters to be designed that way.
That's not a reason though? Breast size hasn't got anything to do with a women's personality. It doesn't explain it at all.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,842
Women could make up 75% of players and developers would still be aiming games at adolescent boys...
Because they're developed, and are at least helmed, by adolescent boys (or people with that mindset).

Also you forget, they have to make their whales interested in buying titty statues.
 
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DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,626
That's not a reason though? Breast size hasn't got anything to do with a women's personality. It doesn't explain it at all.

I think the issue is that manga/anime is loaded with character types that have physical traits encoded right into their personality archetype. I've watched enough anime to see how formulaic it tends to be. There are formulas for humor, formulas for story beats, formulas for character designs. Formulas certainly exist in the West too but, not to this extent, where you know what the punchline is before the joke is even told, where you know the personalty of a character before they say a word. These formulas are especially telling with female characters.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,632
You're right. Do we know if in Japan most of these characters designs are made by female and male artists? Or is it slanted like in the U.S.?
Artist gender is irrelevant to the result of the art.
It is also consistent that the question of the artist's gender is only brought up to excuse poorly received art.

Do you have a different reason for bringing up the question of the artist's gender?
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802
I think the issue is that manga/anime is loaded with character types that have physical traits encoded right into their personality archetype. I've watched enough anime to see how formulaic it tends to be. There are formulas for humor, formulas for story beats, formulas for character designs. Formulas certainly exist in the West too but, not to their extent, where you know what the punchline is before the joke is even told, where you know the personalty of a character before they say a word. These formulas are especially telling with female characters.

Thanks for the breakdown. I was trying to convey that, but since I'm a bit out of touch in manga/anime character types, I couldn't quite explain how it works.

weemadarthur I asked because it can go hand-in-hand with why those designs exist. If it's 50:40 (male:female ratio), then it's less of a problem because both sides contribute to the issue. If it's like the West (80:20 or 90:10) then I'm completely in the wrong.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,842
You're right. Do we know if in Japan most of these characters designs are made by female and male artists? Or is it slanted like in the U.S.?
Does that even matter when at the end of the day, the people calling for and drawing the verbal outlines for these designs are all men looking to cater towards men?

Like, not to beat the XC2 horse to death, but I'm sure, in a year, when artists can talk about their contracts, we're going to see a lot of the guidelines be "do whatever you want, but...you know, otaku culture, young, thin, boobs, asses, you know the drill".

Artist gender is irrelevant to the result of the art.
It is also consistent that the question of the artist's gender is only brought up to excuse poorly received art.

Do you have a different reason for bringing up the question of the artist's gender?

Indeed. Smut is smut regardless of who's drawing it. There's a time and a place for smut, and that time and place is not frontrunner design for your video game.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,752
I think the issue is that manga/anime is loaded with character types that have physical traits encoded right into their personality archetype. I've watched enough anime to see how formulaic it tends to be. There are formulas for humor, formulas for story beats, formulas for character designs. Formulas certainly exist in the West too but, not to their extent, where you know what the punchline is before the joke is even told, where you know the personalty of a character before they say a word. These formulas are especially telling with female characters.
I get that there's a certain formula, I just don't get how breast size got roped into it - I find it weird to put a female character to be a certain personality cus of the type of breasts the designer decided to give them. That someone sat down at one point and went "well, this person's shy and uncomfortable, so give her big boobs! That makes sense!" etc... You know? Just weird.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,842
Actually, I want to take a little sidetrip (though somewhat gaming related) and talk about cosplayers as people sometimes come in here and barge in screaming how whether of cosplayer wearing a sexy outfit is "objectifying". Ignoring the usual complaints, I have an acquaintance who does cosplay who feels like she says that many female cosplayers feel forced to do sexy cosplays rather than other designs because that is what makes the most money. Even then the harrasment they get from said sexy designs, usually people screaming for free nudes or threats of rape, makes many cosplayers feel like it isn't worth it, even if it may be a project they want to do. So I do feel like people making the "but what about cosplayers" excuse never really realize that the cosplay industry also has a sexualization problem compounded by many designs being objectified.

As someone who was DEEP into the cosplay community for basically a decade, I'll tell you right now, if you treat it like modeling and try to make money from it, you will be miserable because all people will ever want is skinship. No one except other cosplayers are interested in craftsmanship. It's sad but true, but when you go to a cosplay competition and craftsmanship is being judged by other cosplayers who are intimidated by their lack of knowledge and are just funneled in because they were available, the category means nothing.

So much like most of the artists I know on patreon, the lion's share of your money is going to be made related to smut.

The best advice I can give any cosplayer is get your life in order and cosplay for fun, because as a job, it is not worth it at best, and straight up dangerous at worst.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,626
I get that there's a certain formula, I just don't get how breast size got roped into it - I find it weird to put a female character to be a certain personality cus of the type of breasts the designer decided to give them. That someone sat down at one point and went "well, this person's shy and uncomfortable, so give her big boobs! That makes sense!" etc... You know? Just weird.

Maybe the thought process went: "Well, I don't know how/want to make this character narratively interesting so I'll stick a pair of melons on her. That'll do the trick." I dunno.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,842
Can't wait for one of them to make it in.

They're all gonna make it. They know how popular they are and they are ready to charge you 7.99 a piece for them.

That being said, I'm reading Super and the characterization in that thing is DRAMATICALLY better than the anime. Like, shockingly so.

Maybe the thought process went: "Well, I don't know how/want to make this character narratively interesting so I'll stick a pair of melons on her. That'll do the trick." I dunno.
I mean, we did go through a phase where every other manga was about a shonen protagonist leveling up by sucking a pair of tits. That is not an exaggeration.
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802
I get that there's a certain formula, I just don't get how breast size got roped into it - I find it weird to put a female character to be a certain personality cus of the type of breasts the designer decided to give them. That someone sat down at one point and went "well, this person's shy and uncomfortable, so give her big boobs! That makes sense!" etc... You know? Just weird.

Japanese culture. In the East, the way how things are presented are very unorthodox. Especially with the way how Japanese women behaves is completely different when it comes to daily life activities. Not trying to derail the thread, but based off what I've read and have been told about cultures and formalities, there's a barrier that won't be broken in Japan due to how stubborn they are as a whole.
 
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