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Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
This game could use a "true" remake. It has its strong points, but the gameplay design could use improvements. Having to go to the dojo and magic school to change skills and learn spells is tedious. Menus aren't that bad, but they were made for iOs, and it shows. Re-equipping and relearning skills and magics for each generation (and/or characters who get replaced) is a drag. Compare with SaGa Frontier 2, which has insanely quick and responsive menus, and from which you can set your equipment and your weapon arts and skills very quickly. Not to mention the usual obscure mechanics (I can accept some, I don't agree with lackluster spell descriptions, and being unable to check some weapon/spells descriptions outside of battle).
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I agree, I'm surprised they not only didn't improve some of the menus in the original game, they even made them worse. You used to be able to navigate to the other menus from the stat screen, for example. Or the shortcuts they removed.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Hey group: what is the application of Hasten Time? Does it just let you move first? What is the benefit of it if you use the Rapid Stream formation?

I have it and I know it's supposed to be really helpful but I'm kind of too close to the endgame to really experiment.
 
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Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Hey group: what is the application of Hasten Time? Does it just let you move first? What is the benefit of it if you use the Rapid Stream formation?

I have it and I know it's supposed to be really helpful but I'm kind of too close to the endgame to really experiment.

Hasten Time cancels all enemy actions for the current turn after you cast the spell.
Rapid Stream allows you to always move first, hence with Hasten Time, enemy will not be able to even do a single action.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Whaaaaaaaat

I can't believe that. And you only need it on one character?

Only 1 cast is needed per turn, but you should put it on everyone.
Then you just rotate 1 character cast Hasten Time + the rest do damage.
At 250mp/char you can cast it for 30 turns.
Though realistically you need physical based team for this and you'll probably end up more in the range of 20 turns, which is still more than you'll ever need.
 

Olrac

Member
Oct 26, 2017
457
California
Quick question. I was under the impression that battles in Maze didn't add to the battle counter. However, I just checked and they have to as I now have almost 900 battles.

I haven't taken down any other Hero's. Should I just do a new game plus? What carries over?
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Quick question. I was under the impression that battles in Maze didn't add to the battle counter. However, I just checked and they have to as I now have almost 900 battles.

I haven't taken down any other Hero's. Should I just do a new game plus? What carries over?

I keep reading over and over that the Maze doesn't count towards the battle counter but I don't think it's accurate. I did some battles in the Maze and it advanced my Orchard. I don't know what's going on here. Maybe they mean it doesn't contribute to enemy level scaling? If you keep playing and are getting 1-hit by everything, you'll know you've messed it up and probably can't continue.

Enemies become more difficult for every battle you initiate - even if you Flee. So you can mess your game up by running from every enemy because you won't level up your characters in proportion to monster. Everything will just start killing you instantly.

As for NG+, it's almost worth it to play the game partway through and then start over. You keep all your items, all your money, your global levels (which indicate the levels your units recruit at), and any magic you've unlocked.

The extra momentum in the beginning makes all the difference in terms of how forgiving the game is towards failure and experimentation.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
It's way late, but my review has been posted: http://www.cubed3.com/review/4537/1/romancing-saga-2-xbox-one.html

Just in case anyone is curious about my final thoughts.
Quick question. I was under the impression that battles in Maze didn't add to the battle counter. However, I just checked and they have to as I now have almost 900 battles.

I haven't taken down any other Hero's. Should I just do a new game plus? What carries over?
If you can comfortably take down everything in each Maze, I wouldn't worry too much.
As for NG+, IIRC weapon and magic levels carry over, as well as items, spells, and equipment. Avalon upgrades such as the academy don't. Story progress is of course reset, but with the levels you're at, it shouldn't take more than an hour or two to make up lost progress. I've read about NG+ speedruns that clear the entire game in less than five hours.
 

Olrac

Member
Oct 26, 2017
457
California
I keep reading over and over that the Maze doesn't count towards the battle counter but I don't think it's accurate. I did some battles in the Maze and it advanced my Orchard. I don't know what's going on here. Maybe they mean it doesn't contribute to enemy level scaling? If you keep playing and are getting 1-hit by everything, you'll know you've messed it up and probably can't continue.

As for NG+, it's almost worth it to play the game partway through and then start over. You keep all your items, all your money, your global levels (which indicate the levels your units recruit at), and any magic you've unlocked.

The extra momentum in the beginning makes all the difference in terms of how forgiving the game is towards failure and experimentation.

Thanks. Looks like I need to kill one hero then, I have 5 spells ruminating in the magic lab, to try and force a generation change.

Given my battle count, which hero should I kill?
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Thanks. Looks like I need to kill one hero then, I have 5 spells ruminating in the magic lab, to try and force a generation change.

Given my battle count, which hero should I kill?

The bosses are designed for you to complete them in really any order, so you don't need to worry too much about how powerful the bosses are. It's those random encounters that are going to ruin your life.

My second hero was Bokohn, in the Savannah, but I had already built the College (different from the magical research center) which gave me access to the Tactician, which makes actually reaching Bokohn extremely easy. I'm trying to think who is most accessible at your point in the game and I honestly am not sure. I advanced several generations before I killed my second hero.

Simply completing quests will also cause a generation change, so if you've done several (the ones that add areas to the map) you might just want to do a couple more of those.
 

Olrac

Member
Oct 26, 2017
457
California
The bosses are designed for you to complete them in really any order, so you don't need to worry too much about how powerful the bosses are. It's those random encounters that are going to ruin your life.

My second hero was Bokohn, in the Savannah, but I had already built the College (different from the magical research center) which gave me access to the Tactician, which makes actually reaching Bokohn extremely easy. I'm trying to think who is most accessible at your point in the game and I honestly am not sure. I advanced several generations before I killed my second hero.

Simply completing quests will also cause a generation change, so if you've done several (the ones that add areas to the map) you might just want to do a couple more of those.

I have the university, will go this route, thanks.
 

ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
ugh currently in limbo and not able to take down either Noel or Dantarg, so I decided to head into the maze.

Got that stone and forged the Sevens Sword and got the Ninja class...Time to try again. My advisor tells me I'm sitting in around 500 fights, which is a lot more than I expected. I feel like I am close with Noel, but he gets to the point where he just systematically wipes my party with ease after he puts on regen.
 

Olrac

Member
Oct 26, 2017
457
California
This is definitely the way to go.

Talk to the Nomad Chief in the Savannah who complains about Bokohn's ship. Say it's useless without a plan or whatever that option it. Go talk to the Tactician in the University and follow the quest from there.

Thanks again. So, I just fought him, I think that the theory that the battles in the Maze don't influence scaling may be right. At almost 900 battles, Bokohn was still in hist first form. I beat him in two round with Mirage Blade (on both my merchant 2k and my heavy infantry 1.7k), Wind Blade doing 1.2k, my ranger hit him with a 1k spear attack and then my Strategist had that aoe stone spell hit him for 1.5k. I was using the fast stream formation. I got my generation shift, now, I think I'll check on my fusion spells, and go get 10 mil in the treasury so I can start my NG+ off right. Thanks for all the help.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
ugh currently in limbo and not able to take down either Noel or Dantarg, so I decided to head into the maze.

Got that stone and forged the Sevens Sword and got the Ninja class...Time to try again. My advisor tells me I'm sitting in around 500 fights, which is a lot more than I expected. I feel like I am close with Noel, but he gets to the point where he just systematically wipes my party with ease after he puts on regen.

Dantarg is hard. I don't know if it's fair to say he's the hardest hero, maybe at certain points in the game, but I hated that fight.

But tell me more about this Sevens Sword... What is that? I've done the Purple and Red Mazes but didn't find a stone.
 

ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
Actually, can you get more than one Sevens Sword? Or is that only on separate play throughs?
 

ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
Is there a surefire way to make Coppelia the empress? Like do you have to have her in your party, die and then select, or can you just have her pop up in your pool selection via RNG?
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
You have to have her in your party and trigger a generation jump. She'll appear in the pool selection. You'll have only one chance.
If you get wiped while she's in your party, she'll be broken definitely.
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
I was reading a gag manga last night and this made me smile
YT2iYGk_d.webp
 

ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
You have to have her in your party and trigger a generation jump. She'll appear in the pool selection. You'll have only one chance.
If you get wiped while she's in your party, she'll be broken definitely.

So Coppelia refuses to join my party no matter what emperor or empress I try to recruit her with...Kinda weird.
 

ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
Have you built the bridge? What does Hiraga says?

Built the bridge ages ago, it just got destroyed and i did the ghost ship quest, but not sublier yet as I think if I beat him it will trigger final emperor.

Hiraga says he won't build a new bridge until he knows how the old one was destroyed. Did I miss the window for recruitment?
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
Not sure, I just asked for the bridge because I thought you were supposed to have built it before she can be hired... I can't find any reason why you shouldn't be able to hire her.
What does she says when you talk to her?
 

ultra7k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
978
Not sure, I just asked for the bridge because I thought you were supposed to have built it before she can be hired... I can't find any reason why you shouldn't be able to hire her.
What does she says when you talk to her?

Lol she says "who the heck are you?"

I'll probably have to get her in NG+, as I just got Final Emperor. I wonder if it's dependant on how many of the 7 Heroes you've defeated?
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I wonder. Maybe after the bridge is destroyed Hiraga doesn't trust you anymore with his precious creations...
I've looked around and haven't found anything.

And yeah, I'd strongly advise against hiring her with the last emperor. Her random nature makes her a liability until you can make her empress herself.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Just beat the Dread Queen - only took two tries. I actually did really, really well the second attempt and never even lost a unit. It was fun to play a fight really defensively when the rest of the game calls for so much offense.

I only have two trophies left: make Copellia the Empress and beat the game without the final Empress. I'm nervous about the second one because it seems a lot can go wrong.

I believe you can do whatever you want without issue until you've killed Bokohn, Wagnas, and Rocboquet. But after that it seems like a lot can go wrong and I don't want to mess invest a lot of time in a beefy playthrough just to mess it up.

Has anyone whose gotten the Other Legend trophy found a really good guide for it?
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
I'm so happy I took the guy from Cumberland, chose to get a brawler (and make my next emperor as one despite focusing on magic initially) as well as have feint on another one...
There's nothing better than trying and see how awesome something/someone works in battle.
I mean, I took a thief just so I create some change in my emperor's choices later and she's kinda useles... until she just stun-lock the hive queen for the whole fight making me be able to finish the fight despite forgetting to heal SP/MP enough.

I guess it's impossible to do that to any heroes.... because I have Dantarg waiting in the middle of the very first cave I went in in the south, as probably the first emperor after Gerad : ( . I don't think I have the guts to try it without a way to survive efficiently enough.

Thie game is really nice, makes me crave for a Scarlet Grace port on Switch (because for some reason I don't want to get back to my Vita : / ) even if I already played more than 100h on it.

MORE SAGA GAMES !
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
4,083
The biggest issue to finish the game without the last emperor is Subie in my experience. You NEED to kill him at the sunken boat, so you need to kill the king of the ocean really early. Hopefully it's easier with the NG+ feature, because on SFC it involved hours of grinding.
You also need to clear the Gallon event early enough so that the sunken ship event happens, but that's easier, just do north Longit things asap after Gerald has done his thing.

The rest is quite self-explanatory if you're paying attention to what you do: don't talk to the Desert Guard after killing Noel, don't talk to the child and the goat after killing Dandag, don't talk to the diver lady after killing Subie.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
The biggest issue to finish the game without the last emperor is Subie in my experience. You NEED to kill him at the sunken boat, so you need to kill the king of the ocean really early. Hopefully it's easier with the NG+ feature, because on SFC it involved hours of grinding.
You also need to clear the Gallon event early enough so that the sunken ship event happens, but that's easier, just do north Longit things asap after Gerald has done his thing.

The rest is quite self-explanatory if you're paying attention to what you do: don't talk to the Desert Guard after killing Noel, don't talk to the child and the goat after killing Dandag, don't talk to the diver lady after killing Subie.

Dantarg RNG can also be annoying.

For Subier, the important thing is being able to start sunken ship scenario, which I believe is tied more to Garon's coup scenario.
Starting Garon's coup early though requires proper planning because the event itself requires finishing certain event and quite a number of years must have passed.
Most likely you'll need to grind a bit for that.

Re: Noel, I think you can get the Desert Guard.
To respawn Noel, just kill Rocbouquet, which means Terelutva needs to be done early.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
The biggest issue to finish the game without the last emperor is Subie in my experience. You NEED to kill him at the sunken boat, so you need to kill the king of the ocean really early. Hopefully it's easier with the NG+ feature, because on SFC it involved hours of grinding.
You also need to clear the Gallon event early enough so that the sunken ship event happens, but that's easier, just do north Longit things asap after Gerald has done his thing.

The rest is quite self-explanatory if you're paying attention to what you do: don't talk to the Desert Guard after killing Noel, don't talk to the child and the goat after killing Dandag, don't talk to the diver lady after killing Subie.

Dantarg RNG can also be annoying.

For Subier, the important thing is being able to start sunken ship scenario, which I believe is tied more to Garon's coup scenario.
Starting Garon's coup early though requires proper planning because the event itself requires finishing certain event and quite a number of years must have passed.
Most likely you'll need to grind a bit for that.

Re: Noel, I think you can get the Desert Guard.
To respawn Noel, just kill Rocbouquet, which means Terelutva needs to be done early.

Here's my current path and also my frustration.

1. Complete Gerard Scenario. Begin a new generation.
2. Completed the Cumberland Civil War and Pirates of North Longit immediately (subdue the pirates).
3. Afterward, completed Hive Queen, Mermaid, Saigos Clan. Kill Robocquet.
4. No generation jump immediately after Robocquet, complete Volcano 1. Generation Jumps.
5. New generation only prompts Volcano II. Complete Volcano II.

So now I'm trying to force a generation skip at the Towers of Terelutva. I thought if I completed 250 battles the generation would automatically advance upon the completion of a black-screen quest, but it's not working. I've killed hundreds of enemies and the generation won't jump no matter what I do. My emperor always just goes back to Avalon, leaving me with only Hero quests to advance.
EDIT: I guess, rereading it, I need an event value of 8. Ugh.

I am afraid to simply kill Wagnas or Bokohn because I don't want to paint myself into a corner with triggering sunken ship. Since Garon's Coup would need to trigger after one hero and Sunken Ship would need to trigger after the other one. I want to force another generation change before I get there and I can't get it to work.

All the guides mention Garon's Coup starting after Robocquet/Volcano 1 and it never happens no matter what I do.

I don't know why my generation won't jump after the Towers boss black screen. I've literally wasted days of playtime grinding battles to 250+ and it won't jump.
 
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Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Here's my current path and also my frustration.

1. Complete Gerard Scenario. Begin a new generation.
2. Completed the Cumberland Civil War and Pirates of North Longit immediately (subdue the pirates).
3. Afterward, completed Hive Queen, Mermaid, Saigos Clan. Kill Robocquet.
4. No generation jump immediately after Robocquet, complete Volcano 1. Generation Jumps.
5. New generation only prompts Volcano II. Complete Volcano II.

So now I'm trying to force a generation skip at the Towers of Terelutva. I thought if I completed 250 battles the generation would automatically advance upon the completion of a black-screen quest, but it's not working. I've killed hundreds of enemies and the generation won't jump no matter what I do. My emperor always just goes back to Avalon, leaving me with only Hero quests to advance.
EDIT: I guess, rereading it, I need an event value of 8. Ugh.

I am afraid to simply kill Wagnas or Bokohn because I don't want to paint myself into a corner with triggering sunken ship. Since Garon's Coup would need to trigger after one hero and Sunken Ship would need to trigger after the other one. I want to force another generation change before I get there and I can't get it to work.

All the guides mention Garon's Coup starting after Robocquet/Volcano 1 and it never happens no matter what I do.

I don't know why my generation won't jump after the Towers boss black screen. I've literally wasted days of playtime grinding battles to 250+ and it won't jump.

From what I understand, the easiest way to trigger Garon's coup early is to fail the quest.
Just agree to help with the mine and when you reach Nuono, reject offer to work with the pirate, then go finish other quests to get generation jump.
Garon's coup should be available in the next gen.

Regarding generation jump, can refer to here
http://saga.wikia.com/wiki/Generation_Mechanics
You can trigger it by manipulating number of battles fought.
 

Kubricks

Member
Oct 31, 2017
913
Ok.... I have just purchased this game for the 4th time (SNES / iOS / Andrios) since 1993, I just couldn't resist the theme, the aesthetics and the title ost!
I am determined to finish this game once and for all on the Vita as I have NEVER manage to beat this game before due to difficulty and game mechanics that are not explained very well. The furtherest I got was the moving battle ship on steppe I believed.

Any tip for me this time round?
What weapon should I upgrade? Should I save money for the University and stuff?
Any essential spell I must have to make the game easier?
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Ok.... I have just purchased this game for the 4th time (SNES / iOS / Andrios) since 1993, I just couldn't resist the theme, the aesthetics and the title ost!
I am determined to finish this game once and for all on the Vita as I have NEVER manage to beat this game before due to difficulty and game mechanics that are not explained very well. The furtherest I got was the moving battle ship on steppe I believed.

Any tip for me this time round?
What weapon should I upgrade? Should I save money for the University and stuff?
Any essential spell I must have to make the game easier?

1. Don't flee from battles. Enemy difficulty is determined by your battle count, so running from monsters will level them up and never level up you. So fight!

2. Magic is just extremely powerful and crucially important for the late game. Make a point to level Water, Fire, Earth, and Cosmology. All the way. Try to have at least two mages on every team, usually a dedicated mage and then a hybrid, and just level up those magics over and over again.

3. Only save money in the beginning of the game. Once you skip to your first random emperor, spend whatever you want. You will usually have tons and tons of money and nothing to even dream to spend it on. Just visit the orchard (which you build) periodically to increase its revenue, which also increases with battle count.

4. If the game is getting too hard and you're really struggling, start a new game plus with your current save file. You keep all your global levels, inventory, storage, and money. This will give you a massive head start to get some edge and the game's difficulty will balance back out as you progress.

5. Talk to every NPC. Talking to random people is the only way to access some parts of the map.

6. Use multiple saves so you can possibly reload a slightly older file and fix a mistake. If you die in a battle you didn't want to die in, the game auto-saves and can be reloaded from the main menu.

7. Units will not learn new techniques if their skill menu is full. Delete skills you're not using.

8. Never bother with shields. Ever.

9. When you get the option for a Pirate emperor, take it immediately just to unlock the Rapid Stream formation. Even if you go kill that emperor right away, Rapid Stream lets all your units attack first. It's the best formation and you should have it ASAP.

10. Come back here and ask for help often. This game is very hard without tips and tricks! But once you figure it all out, it's a romp.
 

Kubricks

Member
Oct 31, 2017
913

Thanks for the detailed tips!
All those years I have been trying on the game, I;
- Spend all the money immeidately on weapons, no money left for any building lol.
- Never used any spell, because "double cut" was so strong sword must be the only way. ;/
- I flee from battle because why not.....
The sheild part is interesting, I ALWAYS equip a shield on everyone because it makes the number goes up.... What defence equip should I use anyway? There are no stats to any of them lol.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Thanks for the detailed tips!
All those years I have been trying on the game, I;
- Spend all the money immeidately on weapons, no money left for any building lol.
- Never used any spell, because "double cut" was so strong sword must be the only way. ;/
- I flee from battle because why not.....
The sheild part is interesting, I ALWAYS equip a shield on everyone because it makes the number goes up.... What defence equip should I use anyway? There are no stats to any of them lol.

1. Only buy things in Avalon as an emperor because they're free that way. You might buy things as you adventure but generally there is no reason to. You will find much better equipment in your travels for free.

2. Invest in everything at the Blacksmith that isn't a shield. This will make your recruits start with better equipment (after a generation hop).

3. Shields only give a defense bonus with their probability for activation occurs. So they only function 30-50% of the time. They also don't work with two-handed weapons. That's a waste of a slot. Crusaders from Cumberland get a free shield they can't unequip, which is fine, but nobody else should bother.

4. Don't equip gauntlets on anyone who uses a bow. It (supposedly) lowers your accuracy significantly.

5. Armor and weapons DO show stats and perks on the Equip screen. Just go for whatever has the higher number. But beware that heavier armor will make you move slower. This isn't a huge concern, and doesn't matter at all once you get Rapid Stream, but usually you want your healer to be really fast. Lighter armor is better on them. There's a scale in the storage room but common logic applies here: metal is heavy, leather and robes are light.

6. It is hard to level up Earth and Magic because they're defensive spells, but try anyway. Just spam them every free opportunity you have. You will get used to knowing when a battle will end in just one or two attacks and you get XP for moves you select even if they don't actually happen. So even if you end a battle in one attack, everyone else will get XP for whatever you had selected. Use that to your advantage.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,716
United States
Thanks again, that'd be enough for me to start now!
Let's hope I can finally complete the game this time round!

Hey, if I can do it, you can do it. I restarted seven times before I finally understood everything necessary to play it effectively. I loved it so much I just got the Platinum. You just gotta believe!

Here's another little tip: read about a quest before you complete it. There's a good (not perfect, but good) guide on GameFAQs from a million years ago that will prepare you for certain quests where one wrong choice can fail the quest.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps4/228824-romancing-saga-2/faqs/31378

Just knowing what you're getting into, and what NOT to do, can help you a ton.

Leaving Cumberland, for example, fails the Cumberland Quest. Killing the monster after the Slime in the Brawler Quest prevents them from ever joining you. Clicking the wrong icon on the map murders an entire village of people. This is a game where you will always want to know what you're doing before you do it. It's worth skimming the guide for any quest you're about to do.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
4. Don't equip gauntlets on anyone who uses a bow. It (supposedly) lowers your accuracy significantly.

5) You will get used to knowing when a battle will end in just one or two attacks and you get XP for moves you select even if they don't actually happen. So even if you end a battle in one attack, everyone else will get XP for whatever you had selected. Use that to your advantage.
Thanks for that, especially the second one, I wasn't sure it did, but had a feeling.
It's pretty useful.

I got 3 fusion spells, Light/earth, Light/fire and Firewall (only one I remember the name).
Are these good or should I try to get others ?
Btw... how do I trigger these, I already don't know why they proposed to work on any in the first place.

Last thing... I think a guy in Mobelm needed me to have a sailor character to take a boat but it seems he's now just giving a choice to go to 2 basic towns despite the fact that I unlocked the armed merchants (and have one in the team). Did I miss the event or am I talking to the wrong guy ?