I'll just say I also know one of the writers and it was in her PhD dissertation; I don't think she was an otaku. XD
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Indeed, that's what I'm planning because it made me really curious. :)
That part about being concerned about the source material (if it's what I imagine) it's something that actually exist in almost every sphere of entertainment. When I was reading comic books, a bunch of people had this while seeing adaptations in cartoons or movies (including me, because I was a reader of the source material). I think the same is true for books being adapted to movies, games being adapted to movies, manga being adapted to anime or a live action and diverse other cases in different media.
Netflix is something really small that still depends to the Production Committee and also isn't more representative to it than Crunchyroll when most of the shows are part of a TV broadcast and manga/LN aren't affect by it (and anime will still adapt them).
I think the magnitude for the participation of an average otaku is far beyond what most would consider normal fandom. The source material is far more inviolable - to the extent that some otaku levy death threats against directors and dox them or do other awful stuff if the story doesn't meet their expectations. It's a bit beyond just interest in the source material.
Does anyone know what DQXI is like in this regard? I'm quite looking forward to it.
Only objectionable thing I've heard of is that the new naginata welding lady, Martina, is basically the new Jessica and has a bunch of "special" costumes you can get for her. She's also been really popular in Japan.
https://kotaku.com/the-dragon-quest-xi-character-japan-has-fallen-in-love-1797423013
Nothing on Xenoblade 2's level as far as I can tell.
Thanks for that, much appreciated!
Some people made the point upthread that we shouldn't excuse forum favourites (Persona, Trails, DQ, Ys etc) from criticism and I agree, admittedly I have a blind spot for DQ which is why I thought I'd ask. I liked that character in the trailer but some of her outfits are similar to others we've heavily criticised here. Agree with your point that it's one character rather than a particular treatment of half the cast. What does everyone else think?
From those clips she appears to be owning it, and looks like a really fun character. If she's like that through the whole game then it's an example of sexy done right IMO.
If that level of sexualised costuming did count as 'tainted' I'd have to burn half the RPGs on my shelf, and the other half shortly after just for impractical armour design :D
Has Persona 5's characters been mentioned in this thread because for all the praise it gets by its fans, it always gets ignored when it comes to terrible representation of female characters because its a loved franchise and double standards and all that. I cringed when I first saw Panther and her persona and the more you got to know each female character the worst it got. I liked the Doctor though.
I dimly remember Ann's costumes/general treatment did. It's definitely healthy for discussions like this to look at forum favourites as well as the low-hanging fruit.
We've discussed it a few times now, especially it's hypocritical attitude and treatment of Ann. And yes, there are some severe double-standards at work, where P5 gets away with all sorts of shit that other games, such as XB2, don't.
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There's a whole lot of "see! Sex sells! Checkmate feminists!" type vibes.
Which plays into my point that you generally can play everything and it's highly subjective how to deal with the taint you become aware of.
Well, yeah, I think a large portion of the examples put up for discussion in this thread have been from people who've played and enjoyed the games and found a handful of elements within they want to criticise. Certainly that's the case with the ones I've talked about (various Fire Emblems, Valkyria Chronicles, Trails of Cold Steel, Ys etc). The notable exception is probably Xenoblade 2, in which case it seemed more like a perfect storm of the marketing blitz hitting at the same time as Era launched.
I played through DQXI when it first came out and, even as someone so had to warm up to the series (XI is the second I've played), I really thoroughly enjoyed it. As for sexualized female characters, there are moments with Martina that are probably a bit sexualized (that are now a blur to me), but I don't recall anything like boob jiggle physics, frequent camera leering, or anything like that. DQXI is also probably one of the more progressive JRPGs in recent years, due to another character (even though it's handling feels culturally specific to Japan).
Persona 5 isn't perfect by any means, and there are a lot of issues underneath. But at a surface level there is a key difference between XB2 and P5, and it's that Persona 5 character designs don't work in detriment with everything else in the narrative. The school uniform is a school uniform, the casual clothes are stuff that a normal person would wear in real life, and the PT outfits, while being fanservicy are in line to what you can expect from superhero costumes. Look up Phantom Thieves in Google and compare them to the Xenoblade 2 designs that have been shown the most in the marketing of those games.
XB2 is a long hanging fruit, most Persona 5 problems are in a deeper level (Ann's inconsistent writting, which goes forth and back between empowering her, or certain characters like Futaba and Kawakami being datable).
To give another example of the same case (and this time, both within the Persona series), compare the Persona 5 gay scenes with the homophobe remarks that Yosuke likes to throw every once in a while when Kanji is in the same room as him. One gets a lot more hate than the other, because one is a low hanging fruit and thus easy to see why it's bad, while the other is about a teen saying the kind of mean and insensitive stuff that you heard people say / said yourself in high school without realizing how harmful it actually was.
So I resumed Xenoblade 2 today and just got to the "Blushy Crushy" scene in Chapter 3. Good God is it awkward. And from what I've gathered from this thread, it gets worse in Chapter 4? Even worse is my sister decided to come out and watch what I was playing for a little bit at the very moment and she's like.
I mean usually when we watch anime we just poke fun and laugh at ridiculous fanservice scenes but this genuinely pissed her off especially the fact that the choice in this scene is basically "Yes" or "Absolutely!" She liked Nia though. I think this solidified my decision that I'm not going to be so quick to preorder the next game.
I mean usually when we watch anime we just poke fun and laugh at ridiculous fanservice scenes but this genuinely pissed her off especially the fact that the choice in this scene is basically "Yes" or "Absolutely!" She liked Nia though. I think this solidified my decision that I'm not going to be so quick to preorder the next game.
I finally decided to check in on what this 'blushy-crushy' thing was. And uh.
Huh.
How awkward.
Huh.
How awkward.
Tora is soooooooo bad in the Japanese version and the English version isn't much better.
So I resumed Xenoblade 2 today and just got to the "Blushy Crushy" scene in Chapter 3. Good God is it awkward. And from what I've gathered from this thread, it gets worse in Chapter 4? Even worse is my sister decided to come out and watch what I was playing for a little bit at the very moment and she's like.
I mean usually when we watch anime we just poke fun and laugh at ridiculous fanservice scenes but this genuinely pissed her off especially the fact that the choice in this scene is basically "Yes" or "Absolutely!" She liked Nia though. I think this solidified my decision that I'm not going to be so quick to preorder the next game.
Yeah...I almost put the game down in chapter four. It's bad. It's really bad. Mainly because it's all about Tora.
Anyone played the AC: Origins DLC?
Aya shows up, this time in an outfit that completely exposes her midriff! At first I was a like yay she's back and man she looks cool! But I couldn't reconcile that metal pauldron on her shoulder with the zero armour on her extremely vulnerable torso.
I just noticed that The Secret of Mana remake has bonus costumes for people who preorder at GameStop. One of the outfits for Primm (the female character) is a two-piece tiger bikini while the male characters are covered head to toe in their own tiger outfits. To be fair, the bonus includes a set of Moogle outfits which have all three characters entirely covered except for their faces but yeah, Primm is the only who gets a skimpy outfit.
I loved Secret of Mana as a kid. I've been cautious about looking at the remake as I fear it won't live up to my memories of playing it through alongside my brother. It just seemed so important to us at the time, but upon replaying it on the Wii virtual console a decade or so ago, I just remember thinking that the collision detection was a bit wonky and being a bit underwhelmed. Maybe it's just that much better in multiplayer, maybe it's a touch of raw nostalgia on my part.
It's probably a bit of both. The most memorable thing I remember about the series was all the different weapon types (and the sprite, for some reason?). Secret of Evermore and all the other games with the sort-of top-down action RPG flavor were pretty great games. That style of game continued for a while but I don't think that since Terranigma, there's really been one that stood out all that much (Terranigma is still a pretty great game).
Yeah, I remember the ending
where the sprite disappears/goes home
I actually prefer Mystic Quest/FF Adventure on GB these days, the remake of that on the Vita wasn't too bad either.
Ahhh me too!I miss Wild Arms.
Raquel is seriously one of my fave female characters ever, great design and really touching writing as well *snif*
I miss Wild Arms.
Still the best opening song ever
That whistling...
I miss Wild Arms.
One of my all-time favourites. My old avatar was from that game :)
And now that song is stuck in my head.
Such a great game.
I actually just witnessed the cutscene earlier today. Yeah, Tora is easily one of the worst JRPG character ever. I can't believe that there are people who consider Xenoblade 2's cast as 'Best JRPG Cast Ever'.
I mean, to be fair, kick Tora in front of a bus and it's actually pretty decent. Not the best by any means though.
They are.
My wife fell in love with the entire cast right away. She is still think cosplaying as Pyra or Brighit. And she thinks Tora is the cutest thing ever, aside from our dog.
Yeah, but decent is still far from the best. Judging by the introduction, Zeke looks awkwardly annoying too.
Tora is cute from outside, but the inside is just a rotten pervert. My wife loves the better creature, the chibi Gramps.
It's amazing how much better Poppi is as a character that Tora is. So much so that Tora stops becoming relevant fast after the halfway point and Poppi becomes the most important character of the two.
...oh yeah, Chapter Four is dedicated to Tora so be prepared. It's bad. It's really bad and it makes me want to take their entire race and feed them a level 99 monster.
It's meant to be awkward. That's the point of the scene!
Sorry, I just wanted to post what everyone always posts about the Final Fantasy X "laughing scene".
Playing Fire Emblem Heroes on the way to work this morning. More obvious comments on Loki's outfit and her bizarrely shaped breasts aside, I think we can file her belt buckle in the 'costumes likely to disembowel the wearer' category. Also, isn't the point of a buckle that the belt is actually a strip of leather with two ends rather than a hoop? She needs some new terms of affection too, I'd always pictured Loki as a verbose, eloquent entity rather than one to repeat the same term twice in a dozen words.
I sniggered at 'skip' in the corner. Yes please, I'd like a new villain.
I sniggered at 'skip' in the corner. Yes please, I'd like a new villain.
I feel that the video games medium as a whole is at a turning point. It's about to step out of its adolescence and entering adulthood. This shift is taking a long time though, and is needlessly being hindered especially by Western male bro and Japanese otaku culture.
All the people critizicing games for their depiction of women as sex objects and dependence on men (but also the depiction of men as muscular alphas incapable of expressing complex emotions) truly are the frontrunners of this transition.
I hope that the video game medium grows up soon, for our sake but also for the sake of children playing these games and integrating the games' lessons into the construction of their world views.
All the people critizicing games for their depiction of women as sex objects and dependence on men (but also the depiction of men as muscular alphas incapable of expressing complex emotions) truly are the frontrunners of this transition.
I hope that the video game medium grows up soon, for our sake but also for the sake of children playing these games and integrating the games' lessons into the construction of their world views.
The main theme is awesome. Oh man, the title music for it, that's something I've never been able to forget. Great stuff, just a few bars but I've been finding myself humming them every so often for 25 years now.
So I resumed Xenoblade 2 today and just got to the "Blushy Crushy" scene in Chapter 3. Good God is it awkward. And from what I've gathered from this thread, it gets worse in Chapter 4? Even worse is my sister decided to come out and watch what I was playing for a little bit at the very moment and she's like.
I mean usually when we watch anime we just poke fun and laugh at ridiculous fanservice scenes but this genuinely pissed her off especially the fact that the choice in this scene is basically "Yes" or "Absolutely!" She liked Nia though. I think this solidified my decision that I'm not going to be so quick to preorder the next game.
Some like chapter 4, some don't. (there is one really dumb scene in chapter 4 i guess, that and the one with the weight were the dumbest in the game. But they are short, and in the end still pretty harmless, i rolled my eyes and moved on. you could just sell the game though if you regret your preorder.
As an old fart, I should point out this has been said for over two decades (starting with Xenogears, Final Fantasy VII and even earlier), so I wouldn't hold my breath. If anything, I would argue games are narratively worse now than then, and Japan seems hell bent on pushing the line further back every day. :(
And unfortunately, it seems to be following in Hollywood's steps. Considering the evolution from the days of Gone with the Wind, Casablanca and Citizen Kane, all the way down to today's Michael Bay blockbusters... it's not exactly painting a reassuring picture.
The praise is kind of baffling. The cast is fun, but - much like the plot - painfully generic. Comparisons to the Tales series are apt, I'd say.
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