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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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But it's pretty telling that, like, 95% of the fanart is about her showing her ass. It may not be the only reason but it's certainly the most defining one.
D:
That doesn't preclude other reasons for liking her design, is the important point.
I'm not dismissing the are other reasons to like her design, or it's not my intention atleast, just that one of the aspect resonated the most in a lot of people, and you can see it pratically every fanart. That doesn't mean, of course, that there are people that can like it for other reasons.
Surprise the internet likes being pervy, if fanart is the barometer of why people like something, nothing is going to pass this test. We even managed to get a butt into splatoon apparently. You can find fanart other than butt 2b, but I will also admit it become something of a meme
Never saw her as a ballerina. I just think the aesthetic goes really well with her movements. Actually yea, I guess that's it. If she only had that design, and didn't do anything combat-related while wearing it, I probably wouldn't think much of it. But the design for me is now firmly intertwined is how badass she can be with her slick animations, so overall I dig it.
Fanart can be wild af lol
Yeah. I actively dislike the thigh/butt stuff and would love for it not to be part of the design because I think it brings it down, but I'm really into that silhouette, colour scheme and aesthetics otherwise (9S too). I read it as a cool mix of campy, graceful, and hyper-fem, so I think it has a sort of gay male appeal (!the gay male gaze alert!). But me enjoying the design while specifically rejecting some of the more overtly sexual aspects doesn't change the fact that just now when I Google image searched for the character I saw a lot of contrived poses and racy fan art. It's a design that I could enjoy so much more if it didn't have that baggage that comes, by his own admission, from the creator's penchant for women's butts.
I screeched at this and can't unsee it, but honestly? A dream lqqk for me personally.
I edited my post because I realized you weren't dismissing it, haha. Sorry. You got it before I edited.
I agree with you, but also I think it is important to recognize there are other reasons someone could like it, just as it's important to recognize that things you like can be problematic.
The latter probably moreso, but I think both things are valuable.
EDIT: THAT SAID... Well, the fanart of... most things... can get real fucking horny. And I'll be honest, most of the fanart I've seen of 2B isn't actually all that horny. But then I only really see what people link to me directly, because I'm not really into the whole Fanworks scene.
I didn't even know that was a meme.
(I laughed at the words at least don't hate me.)
Had to look that up. Won't lie, got a chuckle out of me lol
Amaterasu is actually genderless, as stated by Kamiya
is this cheating?
lol nah I laughed at first too , that's the problem though, at first lol
sorry I didn't catch the edit too. I agree with what you said here, didnt want to dismiss any positive reason to like the design (it happens to me with this game tbh, its a very love/dislike relationship I have with it lol).
had to google it too. It's like, the most weird (for saying something) mix between edge and moe... like... the fuck is this lol
2b, just through her design, didn't really read as "badass" to me. Then again, none of the designs in the game read as badass to me. Not in the teenage edgy Dante way nor the "look at my extra as hell armour" dark souls way. The general tone is somber as hell which is, yes, undercut by the ass. :P
2B is a badass to me though, but that generally comes through the animations and her general personality to me.
2B is a badass to me though, but that generally comes through the animations and her general personality to me.
As with most Shinto gods, but she'll always be a goddess to me.
So what you're saying is that his "reason" doesn't excuse the objectification in N:A, am I reading this correctly? I agree with that, but isn't it also self-obvious that there is no possible reason that will magically make objectification OK? The context where we're saying his "reason" is "better" than straight up bullshit is that at least it doesn't make the objectification worse; admittedly a low bar, but even so, one not to be taken for granted with Japanese developers!
In any case this is probably splitting hairs at this point. All that said I would want everyone to stay civil if possible; it's not cool to see longtime posters sniping at each other over 2B's design (I personally find it pretty cool from the waist up, and absolutely ridiculous from the waist down, so I can see how it would be divisive :P).
Fanbases meme. That's pretty much their purpose for existing, whether a portion of said fanbase or the creator is cool with it or not. You'll see it in everything. A serious scene depicting a potential identity crisis of several machines that may or may not have sentience didn't stop the fanbase from getting "BE ASS GODS" out of it. Doki Doki Literature Club having one of the best depictions of depression in gaming didn't stop the fanbase from constantly making suicide jokes and hilarious image macros combining other memeful nonsense like Logan Paul or fidget spinners. Gregzilla making a silly Knuckles design who's sole reason for existing is to say "oh no" didn't stop fans from turning it into this weird amalgamation of fake Ugandan stereotypes.
None of this should be taken as THE thing to get out of an original work. They're not objective truths associated with something on a personal level, they're just examples of the internet looking for humor in everything no matter how tasteless.
On 2B's design, I definitely find it badass in a sort of "sum of its parts" way. The blindfold, the weird spiky shirt cuffs, the color scheme (black is badass!), the asymmetry of the skirt, the gloves; it all comes together to form something IMO unquestionably badass.
Of course, actions and framing will always trump design for me when it comes to badassery. Characters that don't look even slightly badass can end up even more effectively badass in any particular moment due to the dissonance associated with it. That's kind of off-topic though since both 2B's design and actions are badass imo, so it's not really playing with expectations there.
None of this should be taken as THE thing to get out of an original work. They're not objective truths associated with something on a personal level, they're just examples of the internet looking for humor in everything no matter how tasteless.
On 2B's design, I definitely find it badass in a sort of "sum of its parts" way. The blindfold, the weird spiky shirt cuffs, the color scheme (black is badass!), the asymmetry of the skirt, the gloves; it all comes together to form something IMO unquestionably badass.
Of course, actions and framing will always trump design for me when it comes to badassery. Characters that don't look even slightly badass can end up even more effectively badass in any particular moment due to the dissonance associated with it. That's kind of off-topic though since both 2B's design and actions are badass imo, so it's not really playing with expectations there.
I discovered not long ago that in World of Warfrafft there are some pieces of armor that look normal on males but like bikinis on females and that you cant make it look normal, which is annoying.
Then I realised bikini armor is the most used among female characters (mostly played by men).
Then I realised bikini armor is the most used among female characters (mostly played by men).
At some point fanbases are basically 99% meme. Just look at undertale. I can't look at the subreddit nor Tumblr tags anymore unless I want to see a meme recycled for the hundredth time or scores of rule 34 fanart for a game that is barely sexy at all.
The fact that Monster Hunter World does this too is an immediate turn-off. On the more extreme end, you have Blade & Soul, which is... I mean... just Google it, I dnno. It's hard to explain in words.
It really is jarring to go from one of those games back to Dark Souls, where 99.9% of the outfits are completely gender neutral.
While playing Xenoblade 2, I just remembered how the original design of Saito had boobs in a more fine way compared to what the 3D model in gaming has. It's a shame because I like Pyra design for the most part with Saito design and in-game but the boobs being much bigger in there bothers me a bit.
Hahaha Babymetal is really amazing.
Hahaha Babymetal is really amazing.
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It fucking drives me insane. Some female sets are perfectly fine, even beautiful (Paolumu's coat for example, which I've rocked until it was ridiculously outdated), but virtually 70% of them do this zettai ryoki or whatever it's called that was discussed earlier in the thread, with your hunter essentially wearing shorts and stockings.
While playing Xenoblade 2, I just remembered how the original design of Saito had boobs in a more fine way compared to what the 3D model in gaming has. It's a shame because I like Pyra design for the most part with Saito design and in-game but the boobs being much bigger in there bothers me a bit.
Those are still some huge melons. It really makes you wonder how the mind of someone who sees that and says "nope, we need to make them bigger" works. :S
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In fact, that comparison of the gothic aesthetics only made me like 2B's look that much more, and now I wouldn't mind hearing a mashup of their music and something from NieR: Automata.
Pyra's design is so bad and ugly, like a representation of everything wrong with fantasy anime and video games :(
WTF, they talk about wanting variety, but they still do this double standard crap when an opportunity is staring them in the face. God forbid they even have the VARIANT female Kirin armor not be total cheesecake.It's "funny" how even the cheesecakeTM armor from Monster Hunter (Kirin) has an alternate male character version for players that doesn't want the cheese, but the female character variant doesn't have this luxury.
It's also fashionable as fuck, btw!
I remember seeing a similar image on the internet. It really tells a lot about developers biases in game design.Reminds me of this
I was disappointed that some of the alpha / beta variants are identical, but now I have to wonder if that's only the case with female characters. Unfortunately both me and the missus are playing female characters, but I guess there's always the Internet to check...
Edit: Nah, sets that are the same (with color changes) do that for both males and females, fortunately.
World of Warcraft is pretty freaking egregious about it:
Guild Wars 2 had a lot of women in top positions of the design team, and this is the result (ignore the duplicate / differently sized models, it's a min / max size comparison and the only image I found):
Note that female Charrs don't even have visible breasts, even though it would make 100% sense for them to have them, as upright mammals.
Edit: Nah, sets that are the same (with color changes) do that for both males and females, fortunately.
I remember seeing a similar image on the internet. It really tells a lot about developers biases in game design.
World of Warcraft is pretty freaking egregious about it:
Guild Wars 2 had a lot of women in top positions of the design team, and this is the result (ignore the duplicate / differently sized models, it's a min / max size comparison and the only image I found):
Note that female Charrs don't even have visible breasts, even though it would make 100% sense for them to have them, as upright mammals.
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yeah game has double the double standards lol, sexualizing female outfits vs regular non-sexualized male sets and non-sexualizing male variants of the flagship sexualized set.
It sucks because that Kirin beta could be badass in a female character too.
it's basically the Kirin armor that has a notable difference, I guess for the obvious reason. Rest it's the same for both genders, minimal changes.
Dumb sexual dimorphism in fantasy races, you say?
I am still quite mad I didn't get to play a cool demon lady, Square.
I would mind this a little bit less if female Au Ra weren't so damn doll-like, both in their faces and animations.
I am still quite mad I didn't get to play a cool demon lady, Square.
I would mind this a little bit less if female Au Ra weren't so damn doll-like, both in their faces and animations.
Yeah, it goes back with people not wanting to play characters that are outside their beauty standards.
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/listed-5-character-races-no-one-playing-mmorpgs/
"Why create diversity if only a very small minority wil play as the character"- this is the mindset MMO developers have and is why they go for the guarantee money and create fanservice designs or only create content for the classes with the most users using it.
The worst case scenario of this is the Elins in Terra (NSFW) where they get a good chunk of new costumes and also new classes, most of it being top tier. If you hate their designs, it is best to play another mmo because a big majority of players play them.
Honestly, I don't know what to do here especially in cases similar to the Baraka in Terra where less than 5% of players play as them.
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/listed-5-character-races-no-one-playing-mmorpgs/
"Why create diversity if only a very small minority wil play as the character"- this is the mindset MMO developers have and is why they go for the guarantee money and create fanservice designs or only create content for the classes with the most users using it.
The worst case scenario of this is the Elins in Terra (NSFW) where they get a good chunk of new costumes and also new classes, most of it being top tier. If you hate their designs, it is best to play another mmo because a big majority of players play them.
Honestly, I don't know what to do here especially in cases similar to the Baraka in Terra where less than 5% of players play as them.
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While playing Xenoblade 2, I just remembered how the original design of Saito had boobs in a more fine way compared to what the 3D model in gaming has. It's a shame because I like Pyra design for the most part with Saito design and in-game but the boobs being much bigger in there bothers me a bit.
Hahaha Babymetal is really amazing.
The strap skirt bugs me more than anything else. I do agree that the 3d modeler really seemed to indulge themself on making them obnoxiously big. Makes you wonder if there was an inside joke going on similar to DC's Power Girl and the guy tried to make them as big as possible before someone noticed and said something.
So I'm curious what do the people on this thread think of team RWBY's designs now that they've all been revealed for Cross Tag Battle.
Just something I've been wandering about as I quite like the show.
Just something I've been wandering about as I quite like the show.
They are alight. I wish they had went with the season 4 and 5 outfits though. They are much better IMO.So I'm curious what do the people on this thread think of team RWBY's designs now that they've all been revealed for Cross Tag Battle.
Just something I've been wandering about as I quite like the show.
I like that they went with the more classic designs, I hope this game turns out goodSo I'm curious what do the people on this thread think of team RWBY's designs now that they've all been revealed for Cross Tag Battle.
Just something I've been wandering about as I quite like the show.
Heh funnily enough the show actually makes fun of that last one. Ruby is terrible at walking with heels and questions how Weiss is capable of fighting while wearing them.
Not trying to justify the design if you don't like that element I just found it amusing as you don't often see characters in a "combat heels" show having difficulty with them.
Eh, it's not really better. It just shows that the designers/artists know high heels are stupid for combatant, but put them in anyway. So they don't even have the "oh I wasn't really thinking about that I just thought it looked cool" excuse (not that it'd be much of one, lol).Heh funnily enough the show actually makes fun of that last one. Ruby is terrible at walking with heels and questions how Weiss is capable of fighting while wearing them.
Not trying to justify the design if you don't like that element I just found it amusing as you don't often see characters in a "combat heels" show having difficulty with them.
They even share the male armor (well beside a few outfits), and the same goes to the Asura. Love the Charr race.<3 Pretty much the major differences between the genders is that female Charr have long hair top to bottom of the tail and the faces.
Eh can't really offer any real defense other then RWBY is very much a "rule of cool" show at times.
Anyway thanks for giving your opinions. The Cross Tag Battle news got me thinking about it and I was curious what this thread would think of the designs. So thank you.
Heh funnily enough the show actually makes fun of that last one. Ruby is terrible at walking with heels and questions how Weiss is capable of fighting while wearing them.
Not trying to justify the design if you don't like that element I just found it amusing as you don't often see characters in a "combat heels" show having difficulty with them.
They even made fun of Weiss' dress.
"It's a combat skirt!"
And honestly while there are some stuff in the designs to pick on, I think those designs for Cross Tag Battle are more exaggerated compare the art of the show really, least for Ruby.
Keep in mind, these are ArcSys renditions of these outfits as well, so the poses are very anime pinup.
Heh funnily enough the show actually makes fun of that last one. Ruby is terrible at walking with heels and questions how Weiss is capable of fighting while wearing them.
Not trying to justify the design if you don't like that element I just found it amusing as you don't often see characters in a "combat heels" show having difficulty with them.
These sound like textbook cases of one of TV Tropes's better known tropes, the Lampshade Hanging(it's even in its logo!).
Lampshade Hanging (or, more informally, "Lampshading") is the writers' trick of dealing with any element of the story that threatens the audience's Willing Suspension of Disbelief, whether a very implausible plot development, or a particularly blatant use of a trope, by calling attention to it and simply moving on.
Not at all, actually. Human breasts are so prominent because we store fat there and most mammals do not. The average mammalian mammary is mostly unnoticeable unless they are lactating. Humans are freaks.
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