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-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Connection should always be priority. If it isn't priority, matches are absolute lag fests. No thanks.

Trials was at its best in D1 when it was connection based. Please do not go away from that.

Ideally, connection quality should be king. But logically, it doesn't make sense for your first match to be against streamers and MLG Pros and your flawless match to be against a team of players who appear to have never played a video game in their lives. As with other activities, it should get progressively harder, while still prioritizing connection quality.

Losing your flawless match sucks. We've all chocked and have had it happen. But not being able to get off the ground at all because you're constantly getting paired with ridiculously stacked teams doesn't make sense.
 
OP
OP
JohnOfMars

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
unknown.png

Sweet Business + Actium War Rig
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Pure SBMM is awful. We all remember when that was implemented. Red bars and lag out the ass.

I'm not a network engineer, but why can't Bungie develope a system that looks at wins AND connection? Again, it's pure logic. I'd expect my flawless match to be the most challenging, just as I expect the last raid boss to be the most difficult encounter in the entire raid.
 
OP
OP
JohnOfMars

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
I'm not a network engineer, but why can't Bungie develope a system that looks wins AND connection.

The last variable in that which makes it difficult is TIME. It takes time to locate teams that fit such strict criteria, especially when the flawless population for an entire weekend is only 100,000 - 200,000. They could totally do it, but would you be willing to sit around and wait for multiple teams to finish their games to see if their connection is good enough?
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
The last variable in that which makes it difficult is TIME. It takes time to locate teams that fit such strict criteria, especially when the flawless population for an entire weekend is only 100,000 - 200,000. They could totally do it, but would you be willing to sit around and wait for multiple teams to finish their games to see if their connection is good enough?

I'm sure people in North America wouldn't have much of an issue. Everywhere else might be fucked. We don't really know though.
 

igordennis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
385
Nah, you just fall under the "git gud" crowd, which is fine if you feel that way, but if your a casual the whole experience is really off-putting and gross. I don't play Destiny to deal with the CoD hardcore mentality and childishness that comes along with it. Matchmaking falls into BS luck that you find an even closely matched team skill wise when running Trials. Going an entire night without even a handful of rounds won, never mind a single match is a garbage experience.

Give the higher tier crowd that get off on destroying the weak and challenge and give the lower skilled team at least a chance to find other lower tiered teams to play.

Do you know what a good SBMM system achieves? 50% win ratio for everyone. That's it, thats what it achieves. Now, explain to me how exactly that would work in a mode like trials where the incentive is to win 7 matches in a row. Do you know the odds of a team winning 7 matches in a row in that scenario? 1/128. So everyone would be playing trials with a 1 in 128 chance for that card to be successful. I don't see how that would improve the mode. That is without even touching on the connection aspect of it, which in D1 already proved to be atrocious.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Nah, you just fall under the "git gud" crowd, which is fine if you feel that way, but if your a casual the whole experience is really off-putting and gross. I don't play Destiny to deal with the CoD hardcore mentality and childishness that comes along with it. Matchmaking falls into BS luck that you find an even closely matched team skill wise when running Trials. Going an entire night without even a handful of rounds won, never mind a single match is a garbage experience.

Give the higher tier crowd that get off on destroying the weak and challenge and give the lower skilled team at least a chance to find other lower tiered teams to play.

Trials isn't meant for the casual player. It's designed to be a difficult activity for those seeking a challenge and desire to test their skills. If you want a carefree, stress free PvP experience, go to Quick Play. It's not fair to insist that Bungie make yet another aspect of the game easier or less time consuming, when so much of it already favors players of lesser skill or dedication.

If you want absolutely everything, you're gonna have to work for it, plain and simple. If you want the best shit then you have to be the best, to some degree. Myself and a helluva lot of people had to, so why do you think you shouldn't? Everyone can't be a winner. Let's not undermine people's effort, skill and accomplishment just because some folks want a participation trophy and not want to to put in the time required to succeed.
 

potam

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
565
convince me to spend $60 on this.... How much fun is it for a solo player? (not opposed to grouping, but I don't think I can convince my buddy to get this)

How much variety is there in the end-game activities? Is it like WoW where you can just dick around all day, or is it sorta "log in, complete dailies, log out"
 

Deleted member 27751

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,997
Okay, Sunbreaker is fucking amazing. Actually, all the Titan subclasses are so damn satisfying, Bungie definitely went full Marvel with this class.

Question, when should I open Bright Engrams? Currently 215 but unsure whether its good to open them now or until I hit a higher power level? Do they even have items that bind to power?
 

Cornbread78

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,850
Northeast USA
Do you know what a good SBMM system achieves? 50% win ratio for everyone. That's it, thats what it achieves. Now, explain to me how exactly that would work in a mode like trials where the incentive is to win 7 matches in a row. Do you know the odds of a team winning 7 matches in a row in that scenario? 1/128. So everyone would be playing trials with a 1 in 128 chance for that card to be successful. I don't see how that would improve the mode. That is without even touching on the connection aspect of it, which in D1 already proved to be atrocious.
Trials isn't meant for the casual player. It's designed to be a difficult activity for those seeking a challenge and desire to test their skills. If you want a carefree, stress free PvP experience, go to Quick Play. It's not fair to insist that Bungie make yet another aspect of the game easier or less time consuming, when so much of it already favors players of lesser skill or dedication.
If you want absolutely everything, you're gonna have to work for it, plain and simple. If you want the best shit then you have to be the best, to some degree. Myself and a helluva lot of people had to, so why do you think you shouldn't? Everyone can't be a winner. Let's not undermine people's effort, skill and accomplishment just because some folks want a participation trophy and not want to to put in the time required to succeed.

I used to play MLG/Gamebattles and competitive stuff a lot, but that was years ago when I had time to memorize maps, tactics, weapons, perks and everything else required for competitive mp. Over the years, I've lost both the time and the skill needed to compete at a high level.

I just think by splitting up the group, it gives a little more chance to some of more casual players out there.

I don't think that would diminish the accomplishment for those that have gotten or that want to go for their 7x flawless. All I can do is bow at their skill...
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,207
Okay, Sunbreaker is fucking amazing. Actually, all the Titan subclasses are so damn satisfying, Bungie definitely went full Marvel with this class.

Question, when should I open Bright Engrams? Currently 215 but unsure whether its good to open them now or until I hit a higher power level? Do they even have items that bind to power?

They're purely cosmetic, you can open them any time.
 

Deleted member 11976

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,585
Anyone on PS4 willing to let me in on the raid with them this weekend? 305 Hunter, on EST/US East. I've played the full raid but my clan couldn't finish the final boss when we tried due to someone being woefully underleveled.

I just want to be able to cash in my 45 raid tokens.
 

Amibguous Cad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
Trials isn't meant for the casual player. It's designed to be a difficult activity for those seeking a challenge and desire to test their skills. If you want a carefree, stress free PvP experience, go to Quick Play. It's not fair to insist that Bungie make yet another aspect of the game easier or less time consuming, when so much of it already favors players of lesser skill or dedication.

If you want absolutely everything, you're gonna have to work for it, plain and simple. If you want the best shit then you have to be the best, to some degree. Myself and a helluva lot of people had to, so why do you think you shouldn't? Everyone can't be a winner. Let's not undermine people's effort, skill and accomplishment just because some folks want a participation trophy and not want to to put in the time required to succeed.

But I mean, like, you actually don't have to get good at PvP to get absolutely everything (there's not even an achievement related to going flawless anymore, right?). The drop rates are generous enough when losing that just sticking around to be the Washington Generals for awhile will get you everything you'd want.

Anyway, I don't think stuff should be made much easier - and I certainly don't want an equalized 50% win percentage for everyone. But it's hard not to conclude that Trials is stuck in a bad equillibrium where the skill level is dramatically higher than normal PvP. Everybody under 50th percentile gets stomped so hard they leave for good, which makes it that much more difficult for someone to break into the mode. It doesn't have to be that way, and it shouldn't be that way, if we want it to be as accessible as possible. I'd like to see people from all over the skill spectrum play Trials and enjoy it, though I don't want to gift them flawlesses. Making the drops generous for losses is a good start, but it doesn't seem to have been sufficient to get the lower end of the skill spectrum playing despite losing.

(Also, not to turn this into a political thing, but if you're succeeding to this level in Destiny 2, you probably have a host of advantages most people don't have, possibly including age, time to practice, natural talent, prior shooter experience, and so on. You can't pretend like a CoD and Halo veteran that posts 1.75 k/d day one has the same climb to trials flawless that a shooter newbie who averages out at 20th percentile does. You don't need this kind of elitism to justify a trials for the hardcore.)
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,207
But I mean, like, you actually don't have to get good at PvP to get absolutely everything (there's not even an achievement related to going flawless anymore, right?). The drop rates are generous enough when losing that just sticking around to be the Washington Generals for awhile will get you everything you'd want.

Anyway, I don't think stuff should be made much easier - and I certainly don't want an equalized 50% win percentage for everyone. But it's hard not to conclude that Trials is stuck in a bad equillibrium where the skill level is dramatically higher than normal PvP. Everybody under 50th percentile gets stomped so hard they leave for good, which makes it that much more difficult for someone to break into the mode. It doesn't have to be that way, and it shouldn't be that way, if we want it to be as accessible as possible. I'd like to see people from all over the skill spectrum play Trials and enjoy it, though I don't want to gift them flawlesses. Making the drops generous for losses is a good start, but it doesn't seem to have been sufficient to get the lower end of the skill spectrum playing despite losing.

That's not the goal here. It isn't a gametype that should be trying to be as accessible as possible. It is a hardcore endgame pvp activity that is described in game as "high intensity."

As you already mentioned, between tokens and milestones Trials is already super rewarding as-is even when losing.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,692
House of Wolves, that everyone praises, was Ramlock Sunsingers destroying and TLW/Thorn being the only viable options.
<3 You just described a perfect game right there. Bladedancer/Ramlock city. Arcbolt/Firebolt goodness. Two taps. God rolls galore. Belevolence/Matador + Ash Factory / BTRD.

Speed. Violence. Momentum.

I wanna use a GIF here but nothing captures the level of amazing this was.
 

Amibguous Cad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
That's not the goal here. It isn't a gametype that should be trying to be as accessible as possible. It is a hardcore endgame pvp activity that is described in game as "high intensity."

As you already mentioned, between tokens and milestones Trials is already super rewarding as-is even when losing.

Let me ask you this way: if, for some reason, people from all over the PvP skill bracket decided to start playing Trials, and kept doing so regardless of how often they lost, would that diminish your experience in any way?

(The problem also is that this isn't an issue that stops at a certain skill level. If the bottom 5% of players are getting too stomped to have fun, and they leave, then you just have a new bottom 5% of players to get fed up and move on, until you have a tiny proportion of people actually playing. This happens in approximately every competitive game without skill based match making that has ever existed, and a claim to being hardcore is no excuse for allowing this design-mandated ghettoization).
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,207
Let me ask you this way: if, for some reason, people from all over the PvP skill bracket decided to start playing Trials, and kept doing so regardless of how often they lost, would that diminish your experience in any way?

It wouldn't, but I don't see a way of that happening without diminishing the experience.

(The problem also is that this isn't an issue that stops at a certain skill level. If the bottom 5% of players are getting too stomped to have fun, and they leave, then you just have a new bottom 5% of players to get fed up and move on, until you have a tiny proportion of people actually playing. This happens in approximately every competitive game without skill based match making that has ever existed, and a claim to being hardcore is no excuse for allowing this design-mandated ghettoization).

COD is connection based for general population as far as I know and it worked. There will be games when you do well, games that are evenly matched, and games where you get stomped. It all works out in the end though.
 

Deleted member 13131

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
618
Those are PVP example LOLOL

Dude I was sticking mostly to god like PvE meta baby. PoE, Relevant raids, Hunting wolves in patrols, Petra Bounties. SKOLAS

House of Wolves was legit awesome
Shotguns of the gods. The HoW era had Destiny's peak combat sandbox. That first Skolas kill is one of the highest highs I've ever had in gaming.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,313
Okay, I know strikes are for fireteams and "better played with friends" and all that shit, but is it normal to get gunned down with one or two shots even if I'm past the light/level requirement? I just entered one for the hell of it and I'm emptying my guns and ammo to take down one shield and getting destroyed in two shots. Does it balance out with more people or something?
 

Spades

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,781
For all the things they got wrong with Destiny 2, they really did get pubic events pretty right - and a reason to continue to do them.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,692
Canada
Okay, I know strikes are for fireteams and "better played with friends" and all that shit, but is it normal to get gunned down with one or two shots even if I'm past the light/level requirement? I just entered one for the hell of it and I'm emptying my guns and ammo to take down one shield and getting destroyed in two shots. Does it balance out with more people or something?

Strikes are balanced around multiple people, with enemies having increased damage and health to compensate. Doing one solo can be really difficult depending on the class. However you said solo, but the normal strike list matchmakes you with people, are you doing the Nightfall?

Unrelated but god damn I miss HoW. The majority of the changes to the sandbox and PvP since then have been a downgrade.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,313
Strikes are balanced around multiple people, with enemies having increased damage and health to compensate. Doing one solo can be really difficult depending on the class. However you said solo, but the normal strike list matchmakes you with people, are you doing the Nightfall?
Yeah, I think it was the Nightfall, maybe that's where I got it wrong. I entered immediately and got gunned down almost insantly. :|
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
just did some prestige NF attempts with the respawn entertainment guys randomly, really nice dudes it was fun
 

v1perz53

Member
Oct 25, 2017
276
Oh boy, Graviton Lance from Xur... A mediocre weapon you can get in the campaign. Warlocks get a repeat but at least it is a good one (Nezarec's), I'm quite fond of Mask of the Quiet One though I have it already, and Ahamkara's Spine kinda sucks for hunters since it just increases duration and marks enemies that were blasted, neither of which are very good. It should really give 2 tripmines still especially since they aren't that great now. Overall mediocre week for Xur, maybe better for PC warlocks who didn't grab Nezarec's yet.
 

Maxi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
283
We have a group of 5 planning to Raid tomorrow at 5pm GMT on PC. Is anyone interested in filling the last spot? Preferably someone going in blind like we are with some patience :p
 

spuck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
189
London
Game runs beautifully for me at near max settings (averaging 100-120fps). I really like the game, but at the same time I don't. The campaign was awful: non-existent plot, no lore or backstory, no depth. So I 'completed' the game in like a day, and now there's just tons of side stuff to do. But honestly, I'm not sure I'm that motivated to put tons of hours into this game. Everything feels so arbitrary (like the leveling system), and I found myself watching a few reviews on YouTube of people basically beating down on this game and relating with what they were saying.

I like shooting aliens in the face as much as the next sci-fi nerd, and I'll probably continue playing for a bit (especially because I haven't yet had the chance to play with friends), but I feel the longevity just isn't there unfortunately.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
That's not the goal here. It isn't a gametype that should be trying to be as accessible as possible. It is a hardcore endgame pvp activity that is described in game as "high intensity."

As you already mentioned, between tokens and milestones Trials is already super rewarding as-is even when losing.

Exactly. Trials already gives you a ton of tokens. Hell, you also get weapons from your clan too. As long as you win ONE match, you can still get a lot of stuff. What more "accessibility" do people want?

Without trying to sound like a total asshole, people just want things handed to them while exerting minimal or no effort. I'm an old school gamer. If you want something, you play until you get it. You play until you get better. Again, this is an end game, high intensity activity that's purposefully designed to be challenging. The game offers alternatives that aren't nearly as stressful or competitive. Options are already available. But if it's Trials loot you want specifically, prepare to work for it.
 

GraveRobberX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,056
An idea what the gun to chase after will be in the next faction rally?

No way of knowing until perks on the gun are seen

Most likely FWC Fusion Rifle.
DO get assed with the GL, NM did get Sword, so some might chase that.

No clue on the Rank Package guns though.

Also if they adjusted Faction Rally tokens, to be more of a grind, there better be not be some 30 Rank bullshit now.

Cause if they add these new weapons into the pool with old sets of armor and weapon and only 30 chances, fucking lol, Bungie never learns


AlsoTrials, just to make it fair, here's a novel idea, Dedicated Servers, wow!
None of that DDoS'ing bullshit that runs rampant. You would think they would alleviate these things 3 years in.
 

Hatebringer

Member
Oct 26, 2017
231
My friends and I are looking for a 6th to do the raid on 3 characters every week. If there is any solo player here looking for a steady group on PC shoot me a PM.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
My friends and I are looking for a 6th to do the raid on 3 characters every week. If there is any solo player here looking for a steady group on PC shoot me a PM.
i have 3 characters my highest is 303 atm, i would be willing to do 3 sure or even 2, i have a steady group but they only do 1 raid a week
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
Anyone else getting insane stutter on D2 PC? Like it looks like frames are being played out of order. It's worst when in big fights like public events.
 

Hedera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
82
Here you go, there's a pretty picture.

Capturar.png


Still missing 7 exotics across two different classes, but no dice this week. Again.

Anyone else getting insane stutter on D2 PC? Like it looks like frames are being played out of order. It's worst when in big fights like public events.
Seems to be a known issue as of yesterday's update.
 

Shooter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
681
<3 You just described a perfect game right there. Bladedancer/Ramlock city. Arcbolt/Firebolt goodness. Two taps. God rolls galore. Belevolence/Matador + Ash Factory / BTRD.

Speed. Violence. Momentum.

I wanna use a GIF here but nothing captures the level of amazing this was.

The golden age!