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Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,738
RLM is that one youtube channel I follow that I'm afraid might be ousted at one point in this new ousting climate going on, but this review was rather tame actually. I actually agree a lot with Jay on this movies. Liked it a lot, but it's mostly due to Killmonger's backstory and motivations.

First act was good, second act was great, third act was generic Marvel movie "let's fight" nonsense, but with more iffy CGI.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,786
I mean even early in the review Jay says that he enjoys and supports the whole sociopolitical point the movie is trying to make, and Mike even gives a thumbs up to a tentpole feature embracing diversity and representation, if only because it's something different for a change, so as far as what this movie represents they seem to respect it on those merits alone, even when they were a little split on where the movie lost them for a bit as far as structure goes. That it's a movie that's going to mean something for a lot of people is something they acknowledge and seem to appreciate, but they obviously also point out the elephant in the room that this is still a corporate product and that giving some of this movie's profits to impoverished communities would unironically be a great idea.

Of course YouTube and Reddit commenters will only care that they didn't give it a glowing recommendation and spout the already tired old "it's just the same old boring Marvel movie with SJW rhetoric" or something equally dumb.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,954
CT
I also reject the idea they've been "courting these kinds of fans" when damn near any video on the film on youtube is plagued by disgusting comments.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,217
Eh, this started with the Ghostbusters stuff and them taking the time to explain to everyone how kids don't care if Black people and women are in Star Wars. lol

I don't think it's malicious, but it's something that comes from privilege.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,738
What does that mean ?

That they might have some questionable beliefs and be ousted for it at some point. Same shit that happened to Jontron a while back, though hopefully not as extreme. There was a thread back on Neogaf about what YouTube channel "would be next" after the Jontron debacle, and RLM was mentioned quite a bit. It was mostly baseless accusations/hopes from some people, but the Force Awakens review and Ghostbusters review haven't won them any favors with some crowds.
 

CrankyKong

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76
Rich's little mini tirade against political correctness in the Dead Rising 3 stream was disappointing.
I understand RLM being crude and vulgar but without malice, but it sounded exactly like the kind of shit the alt-right laps up.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
That they might have some questionable beliefs and be ousted for it at some point. Same shit that happened to Jontron a while back, though hopefully not as extreme. There was a thread back on Neogaf about what YouTube channel "would be next" after the Jontron debacle, and RLM was mentioned quite a bit. It was mostly baseless accusations/hopes from some people, but the Force Awakens review and Ghostbusters review haven't won them any favors with some crowds.
3QcE0hX.gif

Did... Did you just say that Johntron A LITERAL FUCKING NAZI is a victim of outrage culture ?
Rich's little mini tirade against political correctness in the Dead Rising 3 stream was disappointing.
I understand RLM being crude and vulgar but without malice, but it sounded exactly like the kind of shit the alt-right laps up.
Fuck me, what did he say now ?
I wasn't there till around the end part of the stream.

Let me guess, it was in relation to Black Panther. Wasn't it ?

And people wonder why i get upset.
 
OP
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Skiptastic

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,699
I haven't seen the film but I thought it was an interesting review.

Mostly because it seemed like they liked different parts but didn't really love it, so it was hard to get up the right emotion to discuss it?

I don't know, but I thought it was pretty mellow and benign.

They didn't do anything (in my eyes) to encourage those subreddit folks that Brian McD pointed out. Quite the opposite, actually.

I thought they made it clear that the diversity and representation helped make this more interesting in parts than the typical Marvel movie.

So that's good.

And, by the way, I may have given Shy grief at the old place for posting links to the streams (because I don't give a fuck about them), but I think Shy is a valuable part of this discussion.

I'm actually somewhat fascinated now (because I don't watch the streams at all ever) to hear about what transpires/has transpired there and why it seems like some/all of the RLM guys deserve some side eye.

There have been different threads where I don't like the "contrarian" always coming in and shitting on the thing people like, but I don't think that has been Shy's tactic/MO.

Shy clearly has justification for his or her opinions on RLM from experience, and I appreciate the addition to the discussion.

So, Shy, I don't want you to get out of this thread, even if (in fact, especially because) you have gone from a big fan to more of a critic.

That's my two cents, anyway.
 

Deleted member 15933

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
671
You may correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the growing controversy here re the social/political stance of RLM members start with remarks like:
"Wonder Woman being praised because it offers a positive role model for girls/women is counterproductive because people shouldn't look at fictional characters for inspiration" ?
I disagree with this opinion because evidently fictional characters are extremely influential role models in basically every society ever. And I do agree that it is very unfortunate and peculiar that they only bring this point up when it affects minorities. Still, I'm not ready to portray them or the large chunks of their fan(boy) base as racists in any meaningful capacity because of this, and neither does this place, right?

Again, I only want to understand the broad strokes of the controversy here, and it's perfectly fine by me to disagree in any way to the above!
 
Oct 27, 2017
557
I dont get why this super advanced technological society still does fights to the death.

Now back to talking about the Klingons

Ehhhh.... apples & prunes. The Klingons developed in isolation as a spacefaring society and didn't really know anything beyond their unified code (until they met other aliens).
Wakanda lived in isolation, but was not ignorant of the world and it's systems. That no one in a hyper-advanced society questioned why they fight to the death to challenge the succession of a hereditary monarch, is puzzling. And, in some frames of argument, could be construed to be a critique of democratic systems, by virtue of the wealth and prosperity of Wakanda (optics, son).
But that is too deep and too risky for a Marvel movie. It almost got there, though.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Caved and watched the review prior to the movie. Their impressions aren't bad at all. Seem like they are lukewarm on it. Which isn't bad. But probably not among their more positive marvel reviews.

Seems like they opted to keep this review as vanilla as possible with cynical humor to avoid any controversy lmao. I like to imagine that Mike and Jay thought they didn't care about the movie enough to deal with backlash over any bad joke.
 

Reversed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,371
Are they done doing VCR repair sketches?

It was a mild review. Found myself agreeing with Jay regarding the crew's CG, but they didn't cave enough into Killmonger's past and intentions, which I believe was one of the strongest points of the movie.

If it went over their heads, whelp.
 
OP
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Skiptastic

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,699
Are they done doing VCR repair sketches?

It was a mild review. Found myself agreeing with Jay regarding the crew's CG, but they didn't cave enough into Killmonger's past and intentions, which I believe was one of the strongest points of the movie.

If it went over their heads, whelp.
If I had to guess, I would presume they are trying to figure out a new "storyline" for Half in the Bag.

If they did all of their movie reviews like they do re:View, it would certainly have a very Siskel & Ebert quality to the show...and I don't think they want to go quite that simple.
 

Khezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,948
I think Jay and Mike are smart enough not to get caught being shit bags.
Rich though....

If anyone does anything serious it will be the bald guy.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
You may correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the growing controversy here re the social/political stance of RLM members start with remarks like:
"Wonder Woman being praised because it offers a positive role model for girls/women is counterproductive because people shouldn't look at fictional characters for inspiration" ?
I disagree with this opinion because evidently fictional characters are extremely influential role models in basically every society ever. And I do agree that it is very unfortunate and peculiar that they only bring this point up when it affects minorities. Still, I'm not ready to portray them or the large chunks of their fan(boy) base as racists in any meaningful capacity because of this, and neither does this place, right?

Again, I only want to understand the broad strokes of the controversy here, and it's perfectly fine by me to disagree in any way to the above!
But they said some bad words about Ghostbusters 2016, and then when people jumped down their throats about it, they put up another video explaining how Sony cynically turned their movie into a feminism vs misogyny battleground in their attempt to cover up an extremely negative trailer reaction. Only someone from the wrong side would say something like that, because you're either with us or against us.

And then there was that time three years ago when Rich used an offensive word for the sake of alliteration, and then apologized when confronted about it, saying that as a white guy from the midwest he's somewhat ignorant of the LGBT community and didn't know that word had fallen out of favor. And then after three years of being relentlessly called a homophobe for it, Rich had the audacity to remark that he doesn't like it when PC culture bans words.

*sigh*

People are seeing what they want to see. Creating their own enemies.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I really do think that it you're stressing out about them more than you're enjoying them it's about time you take a look at their content and see if you think if it's worth still watching it, particularly because movie review channels and podcasts are literally everywhere. I reached a point with other youtubers I made that choice. Hell with Jontron who is an extreme case I can't even watch older episodes of game grumps because that is always at the back of my head.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,217
I really do think that it you're stressing out about them more than you're enjoying them it's about time you take a look at their content and see if you think if it's worth still watching it, particularly because movie review channels and podcasts are literally everywhere. I reached a point with other youtubers I made that choice. Hell with Jontron who is an extreme case I can't even watch older episodes of game grumps because that is always at the back of my head.
I sort of accept that as four white guys, they're not really asking to be challenged in a meaningful way. Even Jack holds back because he doesn't want to get into arguments with Rich.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I don't see how it's lol.

People hated the Ghostbusters 2016 trailer, for reasons that seem to have been proven by the movie being bad.

Sony's marketing department had mod-power over the youtube comments. There were reports that they were deleting large amounts of "moderately negative" opinions, while leaving shocking examples vile misogyny and racism completely untouched, creating a false picture of a trailer that was loved by the majority, but hated by a small group of deplorables.

Feminists and open-minded people were encouraged to come out and defend "their movie" (because Ghostbusters 2016 is now a rallying cry for equal rights and feminism, or so Sony's marketing department would have you believe), which had the unfortunate side effect of attracting a small army of bigots who had heard (through Sony's manipulation of the youtube comments) that this was the appropriate place to gather and unload with shocking examples of vile misogyny and racism.

And yet somehow people are still so deep into fighting the Ghostbusters 2016 war that they see RLM as being alt-right for pointing out the "conspiracy theory" of Sony's backfired cynical marketing attempt.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
Sony's marketing department had mod-power over the youtube comments. There were reports that they were deleting large amounts of "moderately negative" opinions, while leaving shocking examples vile misogyny and racism completely untouched, creating a false picture of a trailer that was loved by the majority, but hated by a small group of deplorables.
Can you help me with this part of your post? I just did a cursory search of this idea that Sony was selectively deleting comments, and the only "sources" showing up are conspiratorial videos, random comments on tumblr/blogs/twitter, and, not surprisingly, gamergate subreddits.

Edit: I also don't get the weird strawmannirg. Most people were fine with their HitB of Ghostbusters 2016, and kind of only started to complain with the scientist man and some of the constant comments about it as if they couldn't let it die. And, with Rich, he would complain on stream that he couldn't say "tranny" and "retard" and argued with Jack over the moderation of the chat on this issue. If he came to the realization that maybe he shouldn't be saying those words, then that's good, but he put up a stink about it at the time (yes, three years ago, but still as a grown-ass adult). And, I don't hear people constantly call him a homophobe about it, just that they were really annoyed and disappointed about hearing him use "PC culture ban words", or as most people refer to them as slurs. But if we want to be more recent, there's the whole "cry babies having a fit" on the Women's March, doing a "both sides" comparing the march to the Obama birth certificate rumormongering, and generally being so woefully ignorant and dismissive of the entire event. Rich has his issues, and I don't think handwaving it away is a great thing, nor do I think they need to be exaggerated to something far worse or more sinister.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,217
Can you help me with this part of your post? I just did a cursory search of this idea that Sony was selectively deleting comments, and the only "sources" showing up are conspiratorial videos, random comments on tumblr/blogs/twitter, and, not surprisingly, gamergate subreddits.
Their evidence was Jay's comment got deleted, I think. lol
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
While I can see how a studio would use the controversy for a marketing push, there really wasn't any convincing evidence about it that I saw. Though I do admit that once it became clear it was going to be an issue people immediately picked sides.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Can you help me with this part of your post? I just did a cursory search of this idea that Sony was selectively deleting comments, and the only "sources" showing up are conspiratorial videos, random comments on tumblr/blogs/twitter, and, not surprisingly, gamergate subreddits.
As I recall, I heard about it on some now-defunct SJW forum called neogaf a couple of days before RLM mentioned it. I have no idea where RLM heard it. Probably reddit.

I just think it seems crazy that people present it as evidence that RLM is alt-right when it seems obvious to me that RLM would never put it past Sony Pictures to be dishonest and misleading in an attempt to control the message.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
As I recall, I heard about it on some now-defunct SJW forum called neogaf a couple of days before RLM mentioned it. I have no idea where RLM heard it. Probably reddit.

I just think it seems crazy that people present it as evidence that RLM is alt-right when it seems obvious to me that RLM would never put it past Sony Pictures to be dishonest and misleading in an attempt to control the message.
So, I guess the answer is no.

Last thing, I did a search in this thread for "alt-right" in this thread and 7 mentions popped up, all of them saying they aren't alt-right. Two of those mentions are from you, so, again, I think you are just strawmanning and waving away grievances from people, or you just don't see them as grievances at all.

Edit: Not to dig up stuff from the old site, because that's not really kosher, but I went and check and you're the only one who posted about Sony moderating the youtube comments to leave only the most vile ones, and when asked for any evidence of this, you never replied.

So, I still have no idea what you are talking about and where you got that information that you keep repeating.
 
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LakeEarth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,181
Ontario
The guys seem to have good hearts, they're just a bit insensitive at times. People are more than welcome to air their grievances when they cross a line though.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Where in my post did I even imply it wasn't justified? When I said "as extreme" it was in relation to RLM not being as extreme a case as Jontron, as in not actual Nazis.
I misunderstood. I apologise.

I saw "ousting culture" and Johntron in the same post, and thought the worst.
He didn't. Might wanna get that finger off that trigger there.
Yeah. I jumped the gun. Sorry.
And, by the way, I may have given Shy grief at the old place for posting links to the streams (because I don't give a fuck about them), but I think Shy is a valuable part of this discussion.

I'm actually somewhat fascinated now (because I don't watch the streams at all ever) to hear about what transpires/has transpired there and why it seems like some/all of the RLM guys deserve some side eye.

There have been different threads where I don't like the "contrarian" always coming in and shitting on the thing people like, but I don't think that has been Shy's tactic/MO.

Shy clearly has justification for his or her opinions on RLM from experience, and I appreciate the addition to the discussion.

So, Shy, I don't want you to get out of this thread, even if (in fact, especially because) you have gone from a big fan to more of a critic.

That's my two cents, anyway.
h3VAltK.gif

Thank you for saying that , Skip. I really do appreciate it.

When i read it earlier. it put a big smile on my face.
I dont get why this super advanced technological society still does fights to the death.

Now back to talking about the Klingons
LOL. And you're completely right.
Ahhh. It was one of those Rich flubs a word than disagrees when everyone tells he was mistaken, deals.
That goodness for that.
Edit: I also don't get the weird strawmannirg. Most people were fine with their HitB of Ghostbusters 2016, and kind of only started to complain with the scientist man and some of the constant comments about it as if they couldn't let it die. And, with Rich, he would complain on stream that he couldn't say "tranny" and "retard" and argued with Jack over the moderation of the chat on this issue. If he came to the realization that maybe he shouldn't be saying those words, then that's good, but he put up a stink about it at the time (yes, three years ago, but still as a grown-ass adult). And, I don't hear people constantly call him a homophobe about it, just that they were really annoyed and disappointed about hearing him use "PC culture ban words", or as most people refer to them as slurs. But if we want to be more recent, there's the whole "cry babies having a fit" on the Women's March, doing a "both sides" comparing the march to the Obama birth certificate rumormongering, and generally being so woefully ignorant and dismissive of the entire event. Rich has his issues, and I don't think handwaving it away is a great thing, nor do I think they need to be exaggerated to something far worse or more sinister.
Uggh. I remember that shit it, was infuriating.

Speaking of moderation of the chat. That went out of the window a long time ago.

The channel had a good short set of house rules that boiled do to "don't be a dick" but even that people (their new audience) threw a shit fit over.

And now the channel has no rules. *sigh*
He just loves Star Wars.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,722
There's also the issue of "poison the well", which is starting to crystallize more clearly to me nowadays. The process is thus: you start with any random youtuber and comment somewhat reasonable center-right first, then some other bot goes full 'SJW this and that', and see which one the tuber bites on. When you have a hook on the second kind, you just go further and further into alt-right territory without the video creator realizing this is going on -- because why would they.
The secondary function is that any such comment will be a signal function of 'going offrails' to anyone with any sense. Youtube has a huge amount of data to work with, allowing for much more effective targeting compared to Google ads. The other equally effective tool is Facebook.

The reason I'm mentioning it is because I find this behavior in most comment sections, and it is almost beat for beat similar to radicalizing people into say, an 'Islamic' cult / terror group.

There's no winning move here by individuals other than cutting out the real alt-right channels. This pattern has to be stopped from the top down, so either YouTube finally realizing it's running a terror recruitment network, or the state forcing them to shut it down. It might be hard to do, but an easy start would making disabling comments on videos the default setting for uploads. Another would be forcing new channel to self-moderate their comments for a while, so that they get an idea of what happens in them, and are perhaps more likely to see their dangers.


It's particularly noticeable with a channel run by a woman or minority that moderating is necessary, but also quite effective in making comments nice, reasonable, and readable. Unfortunately, being white men from a state (or country) nobody cares about, RLM's comment are the standard free-for-all and reddit is -- of course! -- even worse. So some damage will always get in there.

I know this a bit of a side comment for what is basically just "uneducated white American men", but that process is definitely part of it. The fact that Rich and Jack play video games puts them at greater risk though. Because that's a thing now. And I hate it.
 

Deleted member 25600

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,701
I dont get why this super advanced technological society still does fights to the death.

Now back to talking about the Klingons
Wasn't their comment specifically referencing the appointment of a monarch by fighting to the death? I don't know much about Star Trek or Klingons beyond a few forays into Memory Bank Alpha, but do Klingons also normally allow their Emperor or Chancellor to be decided in fights to the death?
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Wasn't their comment specifically referencing the appointment of a monarch by fighting to the death? I don't know much about Star Trek or Klingons beyond a few forays into Memory Bank Alpha, but do Klingons also normally allow their Emperor or Chancellor to be decided in fights to the death?
Yes.
 

The Real Abed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,729
Pennsylvania
I haven't even watched 10 Cloverfield Lane yet. I guess I'll have to add that episode to my Watch Later list along with some of the other episodes for movies I actually want to see first.
 

Barahir_mjh

Member
Feb 18, 2018
178
Just want to delurk here to say that Mike criticized or at least questioned his beloved Star Trek for historically playing it safe and dragging its feet on diversity in the mid-season Discovery review. Not exactly something I'd expect an alt-right persecuted nerd to say (I realize most people here aren't going that far).

Also, as a $2 Patreon supporter the subscriber comments (probably more representative of their core audience than Youtube comments) there on Black Panther are generally unobjectionable and mostly focused on the film's cinematic qualities.
 
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