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More_Badass

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Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Shenmue is, no joke, the father of modern gaming. Just about everything you can think of that is common in AAA games today, was pioneered in Shenmue. Even little things you wouldn't expect, like procedural generating forests, stems from Shenmue. When Shenmue was in production, it was something that was literally 15 years too early. Insanely ground breaking.

In terms of gameplay, it's a mix of an adventure game kinda like Heavy Rain, albeit more open, and an action RPG, with the combat itself being lifted from Virtua Fighter. You train, you level up, you learn new moves. In Shenmue I, the focus is on day to day living, perhaps more like harvest moon or any other daily sim game, but shenmue II is much more of a story focused game, with a much bigger emphasis on underground fighting tournaments. There isn't much combat in shenmue I, where shenmue II is full of it.

Unfortunately, the format shift between shenmue I and shenmue II ruined some of the more ambitious aspects. Example, even though there isn't much fighting in Shenmue I, there is a dojo where you can train and level up, and the game highly encourages it. THis is because, when you get to shenmue II, the moves you learned carried over, so you'd have a custom-made fighter for Shenmue II that would affect your approach to the underground fighting tournaments. But since Shenmue I was on the dreamcast, and shenmue II in the us was on the xbox, they couldn't transfer saves, and thus they just basically gave you all the moves in the US version of shenmue II, ruining the character-building.

The story itself is classic wuxia kung fu. It begins grounded with a mystery -- you come home and see your father murdered before your eyes by a chinese man named Lan Di. Your father, who was a martial arts master, hands of a sacred mirror to Lan Di before Lan Di performs a forbidden and fatal technique on your father. In his last dying moments, he begs you to keep your friends close. Ryo vows in that moment to avenge his father's death.

Pretty much all of Shenmue I is focused on beginning your adventure, i.e. raising money to travel to china to begin your quest. As such, it's kinda light on story. You discover that the mirror your father handed over was part of a pair, and that he had hidden the other mirror on the grounds of his dojo which Ryo finds. These mirrors are ancient magics, and it's said whoever holds both of them can summon a dragon that will devour the world.

Shenmue II is where everything really kicks into high gear. Ryo travels to china and finds out more about Lan Di, the mirror, and his own destiny. Throughout Shenmue I and II there is a repeated legend that is narrated:


He shall appear from a far eastern land across the sea,
A young man who has yet to know his potential,
This potential is a power that could either destroy him or realize his will,
His courage shall determine his fate,
The path he must traverse, fraught with adversity, I await whilst praying,
For this destiny predetermined since ancient times,
A pitch black night unfolds with the morning star as its only light,
And thus the saga… Begins…


You uncover that your father and Lan Di had a shared past, that there is a secret society of martial arts masters who are trying to gather the mirrors, and that there is a young woman living in the mountains that Ryo has been destined to meet for hundreds of years. This young woman seemingly has otherworldly powers and can communicate with nature in strange, unknown ways. In their brief time together, Ryo sees her do a number of pretty weird, mystical things.

Along the way, you also go through a surprisingly star-wars like adventure. You meet Ren of Heavens, for example -- probably the closest Shenmue has to a Han Solo. You fight crime lords. You travel to the ancient walled city of Kowloon. It's great. Shenmue II ends with a massive, massive cliff hanger, just as the story reaches it's climax. That's why people have been dying for it.

The other side of why this is such a requested series is because of YU SUZUKI. This is his magnum opus. His life's work. Yu Suzuki is Mr. Sega. Think of a classic sega game that ISN'T Sonic or Shinobi, and Yu Suzuki was involved. Yu Suzuki was the heart and soul of Sega's arcade empire. Hang On, Space Harrier, Outrun, Virtua Racing, Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, etc -- all Yu Suzuki. Shenmue was basically the last thing he was ever allowed to work on. When the Dreamcast died, Sega's best developer was given a "window seat" where he was technically still an employee, but not allowed to make anything. For 20 years, he was on the "window seat." Imagine if Shigeru Miyamoto disappeared after Mario 64 and wasn't allowed to make games. THat's what happened with Yu Suzuki.

Shenmue III is Yu Suzuki's grand return to gaming. And Shenmue III is being made by a restored version of AM2, his classic team.

The hype for Shenmue III is real.
I got into Yakuza recently with 0 and Kiwani. Would that be a good comparison for what to expect from Shenmue?

Also, now that the games will be together in one package, do you think there would be any chance that this would be done properly in the remasters
But since Shenmue I was on the dreamcast, and shenmue II in the us was on the xbox, they couldn't transfer saves, and thus they just basically gave you all the moves in the US version of shenmue II, ruining the character-building.
 

Jump_Button

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,787
So is Sony paying for this? That why no switch? its PS4 only in japan makes me think that but then Xbox in japan is well you know pointless
 

Deleted member 12790

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How is the battle system?

It's inspired by Virtua Fighter, but it plays with free range 3D instead of limiting movement to a plane. So like, no jumping, but rather moving into the 3D space.

It winds up feeling a lot like virtua fighter, especially if you play with an arcade stick. Playing with a DC controller honestly feels weird.

That's something worth mentioning -- these games were designed originally with the Sega Saturn gamepad in mind, and it really shows. The analog stick in the DC version, for example, is limited to merely look around -- something you can do on a saturn pad by holding Z and using the D-pad. Everything else in the game is completely digital controls. The movement is kinda like old resident evil games, but with the camera behind you.

So playing the fighting sections with the DC pad feels weird. With an arcade stick or saturn controller, it feels very much like virtua fighter.
 

Deleted member 2791

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So it's not a remaster, just a 16:9 port with increased resolution like SEGA did sometimes with its old steam releases.
Shouldn't cost more than 20€ each then, I'll buy them at that price.
 

Deleted member 12790

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I got into Yakuza recently with 0 and Kiwani. Would that be a good comparison for what to expect from Shenmue?

Think of Yakuza like Mario Kart, and Shenmue like F-Zero.

Also, now that the games will be together in one package, do you think there would be any chance that this would be done properly in the remasters

I would bet money on it. In Europe and Japan, Shenmue II released on the Dreamcast, not the Xbox, so they had the ability to transfer saves. Yet another reason the DC version of Shenmue II is superior to the Xbox version.
 

Serein

Member
Mar 7, 2018
2,351
I always wanted to try Grape Fanta after seeing it in the game but it isn't something they sell natively in the UK (that I have seen anyway). Then almost 15 years later in one of those sweet shops that sell American candy at stupidly over-inflated prices I found some. I sold a kidney on the black market, bought a few cans and dug out the DC to play Shenmue once more. :)

 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Think of Yakuza like Mario Kart, and Shenmue like F-Zero.



I would bet money on it. In Europe and Japan, Shenmue II released on the Dreamcast, not the Xbox, so they had the ability to transfer saves. Yet another reason the DC version of Shenmue II is superior to the Xbox version.
So Shenmue is more skill-based and demanding in the combat compared to a game like Yakuza?
 

Shibata100

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,645
LOL digital foundry said they were technically superior? They totally missed the boat.

Shenmue II on the XBox is missing hundreds of textures and lots of the geometry is changed. The only major improvements are that the crowd draw distance is further, the sun flare is made up of more polygons, and the framerate dips less.

examples:

Dreamcast:
SII.005.DCc.jpg


Xbox:
SII.005.XBc.jpg


Texture for sign on the door is missing


Dreamcast:
SII.037b.DC.jpg


Xbox:
SII.037b.XB.jpg


Entire gate is missing


Dreamcast:
SII.010.DCc.jpg


Xbox:
SII.010.XBc.jpg


Texture is rotated incorrectly


Dreamcast:
SII.064.DC.jpg


Xbox:
SII.064.XB.jpg


Object geometry is placed incorrectly


Dreamcast:
SII.066.DC.jpg


Xbox:
SII.066.XB.jpg


The geometry of the roof is clipping through the wall on the Xbox version


Dreamcast:
SII.067.DC.jpg


Xbox:
SII.067.XB.jpg


The geometry for the back wall of the shack is incorrectly placed behind the brick wall, making it invisible


Dreamcast:
SII.012.DCc.jpg


Xbox:
SII.012.XBc.jpg


Many of the signs in the sky have been removed


Dreamcast:
SII.013.DC.jpg


Xbox:
SII.013.XB.jpg


Likely owing to the way the DC handles transparency (it uses a painter's algorithm) virtually all transparent objects are now opaque in the Xbox version


Dreamcast:
SII.021.DC.jpg


Xbox:
SII.021.XB.jpg


Another example of transparency missing

And so forth. The Xbox version has these types of cuts EVERYWHERE. Missing textures, missing geometry, missing transparency. Shame on DF if they missed all this. These are just a few readily available examples from Shenmue Dojo, the Xbox game is full of these changes.

Wow. DF retro really got that one wrong
 

starfox

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,341
Portugal
So is Sony paying for this? That why no switch? its PS4 only in japan makes me think that but then Xbox in japan is well you know poinless
You understand that Sega did a pro bono license deal of Shenmue IP to Yu Suzuki, and after that any deal is his own, right? Shenmue 1 & 2 is all Sega, and has nothing to do with pending deals and funds to a third party kickstarter.

Just don't try to reason with Sega ... the only thing is that it seems to make some sense are that they are making amends against the xbox&psfans who asked this on the Xbox 360 Live Arcade days rumors and it never came to fruition and the shenmueHD badgering has been on since then, and that makes it a West need and not a Japan priority (There was the Sega Europe Suit there and all that in the event). The switch ommision is just cold feet or something, like so many stupid prejudice against the platform weight, but i'll bet the heat will be on and the port will happen sometime after, don't worry.
 

Deleted member 10726

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ResetERA
But the trailer or box art doesnt mention HD, but I guess its not a straight port like Krejlooc mentioned above, seems like a port with improvements

I believe so too, as said Jet Set Radio got a similiar treatment when it was ported to modern platforms.



Also doesn't mention HD but has enhanced features like a different control scheme, 16:9 display, QoL changes like retrying stages immediately and skipping cutscenes, mixed audio (North American and European soundtracks are both present) and small bonus things like getting concept art and music from the Xbox-exclusive sequel.

Overall while visually nothing was changed beyond render resolution, it still received a lot of good changes that made it better than the Dreamcast original.

I think it's fair to say that Shenmue will get a similiar treatment.
 

Deleted member 12790

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So Shenmue is more skill-based and demanding in the combat compared to a game like Yakuza?

Oh yes, definitely. Shenmue's combat is lifted from Virtua Fighter, Yakuza is more like streets of rage. You can unlock actual, real moves from characters in Virtua Fighter in Shenmue.

To give you some context:

Hb5McrY.jpg


As you train in the Dojo and find hidden scrolls or talk to martial artists in the games, you unlock new skills and moves. At first it all seems limited, until you realize that praticing and doing moves in the game levels them up, and they become more complex and turn into chains that can be comboed and stuff. Like this is one of the moves very leveled up:

MRt8RGZ.gif
 

Erevador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
Wonderful to finally have these games on the PC.

I'm sure PC users will hack them apart in the most fascinating ways.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Oh yes, definitely. Shenmue's combat is lifted from Virtua Fighter, Yakuza is more like streets of rage. You can unlock actual, real moves from characters in Virtua Fighter in Shenmue.

To give you some context:

Hb5McrY.jpg


As you train in the Dojo and find hidden scrolls or talk to martial artists in the games, you unlock new skills and moves. At first it all seems limited, until you realize that praticing and doing moves in the game levels them up, and they become more complex and turn into chains that can be comboed and stuff. Like this is one of the moves very leveled up:

MRt8RGZ.gif
Oh wow, that looks like a combat system that's trying to look and flow like realistic martial arts. Is that just one move animation, or is that like a chain of grabs and throws?

(I'm not familiar with Virtua Fighter or its combat)
 

Lynd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,440
I guess I should just sell my DC copy of Shenmue now. I have a PAL release with the cardboard box.

I bought it a few years ago and haven't actually played thru it.

This will be definitive most likely.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oh wow, that looks like a combat system that's trying to look and flow like an realistic martial arts. Is that just one move animation, or is that like a chain of grabs and throws?

(I'm not familiar with Virtua Fighter or its combat)

That's one move, but yes, there are chains and grabs and throws. You should really play Virtua Fighter, man, it's the grandfather of 3D fighting games. It's really, really deep.

To give more context, Shenmue was original "Virtua Fighter RPG." The genesis for Shenmue and Virtua Fighter are the same, Yu Suzuki got the idea for both in 1993 while studying chinese martial arts. They were, at one point very early on, the same series.

Virtua Fighter and Shenmue are intrinsically linked. Many characters in Shenmue are very obviously characters from Virtua Fighter, too. Like the latest Shenmue III trailer has a character is looks exactly like Aoi from Virtua Fighter 3, and Ryo is very obviously Akira (down to the cut on his face).

EDIT: Just to stan for Virtua Fighter a bit, insane animations are Yu Suzuki's calling card:

giphy.gif
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
On one hand a Xbox version doesn't surprise me, Shenmue 2 was in Xbox after all anyway but it could have gone a different way too.

Now I hope we'll eventually see 3 as well.
 

D4rth Man7iz

Member
Mar 30, 2018
636
Itsbeen84years.gif

:')

Glad I bought Bayonetta and Vanquish PC port day one. I'll do the same with Shenmue HD. Jet Set Radio Future next?

Please SEGA!
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
That's one move, but yes, there are chains and grabs and throws. You should really play Virtua Fighter, man, it's the grandfather of 3D fighting games. It's really, really deep.

To give more context, Shenmue was original "Virtua Fighter RPG." The genesis for Shenmue and Virtua Fighter are the same, Yu Suzuki got the idea for both in 1993 while studying chinese martial arts. They were, at one point very early on, the same series.

Virtua Fighter and Shenmue are intrinsically linked. Many characters in Shenmue are very obviously characters from Virtua Fighter, too. Like the latest Shenmue III trailer has a character is looks exactly like Aoi from Virtua Fighter 3, and Ryo is very obviously Akira (down to the cut on his face).
I'm not a 3D fighter guy really. Like the rare times I do get one, like Mortal Kombat or Injustice 2, it's for the single player

But I do like the sound of this. An action RPG with a combat system birthed from a fighting game should be really fun
 

Deleted member 12790

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I'm not a 3D fighter guy really. Like the rare times I do get one, like Mortal Kombat or Injustice 2, it's for the single player

But I do like the sound of this. An action RPG with a combat system birthed from a fighting game should be really fun

Keep in mind that you're not always in combat. Shenmue I has very little combat (Shenmue II has a significant amount more). There are really 4 "modes" in shenmue as described by Yu Suzuki. There is the fighting game mode, which was explained above. Then there is QTE mode, which is used for cinematic scenes like this:



(incidentally, going back to the VF references in shenmue, near the beginning of that clip, Ren of Heavens quotes Akira from Virtua Fighter lol)

Then there is "Adventure mode" which is when Ryo is in a close quarters. This is from a 3rd person view, but occasionally shifts to 1st person view, and is very much like something like Myst or a Lucasarts point and click adventure game. Most of Shenmue I is like this.

FInally, there is "quest mode" which is like the main mode of the game, where you walk around the "overworld' (put in quotes because there is no overworld map or anything, it's all one big living city). In this mode, NPCs go about very complex daily live simulations. The closest comparison I can give is Majora's Mask, where NPCs have really really complex daily interactions. These segments are more of a life sim than anything else. You get allowances, earn money, can buy mainly useless trinkets or decorations, spend time at the arcade, go on dates, raise virtual pets, play mini games, etc. The NPCs in this section live virtual lives. If you follow them around, you'll see them go through crazy routines. Sometimes they'll get into fights with each other, sometimes they'll make up. Sometimes they'll get you involved in little mini quests. Whats insane about all this is that it's not random. Every single NPC is meticulously hand crafted with a routine. The players guide even details every character in the game.

Shenmue I is mainly Adventure Mode and Quest mode. Shenmue II is more about QTE and Fighting. But both of them are really, really good.
 

Acquiescence

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Oct 26, 2017
10,257
Lake Titicaca
Oh man, this is like one of the biggest possible announcements that could have been made and I slept right through it!

It's about time this was real anyway, that's for sure.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Keep in mind that you're not always in combat. Shenmue I has very little combat (Shenmue II has a significant amount more). There are really 4 "modes" in shenmue as described by Yu Suzuki. There is the fighting game mode, which was explained above. Then there is QTE mode, which is used for cinematic scenes like this:



(incidentally, going back to the VF references in shenmue, near the beginning of that clip, Ren of Heavens quotes Akira from Virtua Fighter lol)

Then there is "Adventure mode" which is when Ryo is in a close quarters. This is from a 3rd person view, but occasionally shifts to 1st person view, and is very much like something like Myst or a Lucasarts point and click adventure game. Most of Shenmue I is like this.

FInally, there is "quest mode" which is like the main mode of the game, where you walk around the "overworld' (put in quotes because there is no overworld map or anything, it's all one big living city). In this mode, NPCs go about very complex daily live simulations. The closest comparison I can give is Majora's Mask, where NPCs have really really complex daily interactions. These segments are more of a life sim than anything else. You get allowances, earn money, can buy mainly useless trinkets or decorations, spend time at the arcade, go on dates, raise virtual pets, play mini games, etc. The NPCs in this section live virtual lives. If you follow them around, you'll see them go through crazy routines. Sometimes they'll get into fights with each other, sometimes they'll make up. Sometimes they'll get you involved in little mini quests. Whats insane about all this is that it's not random. Every single NPC is meticulously hand crafted with a routine. The players guide even details every character in the game.

Shenmue I is mainly Adventure Mode and Quest mode. Shenmue II is more about QTE and Fighting. But both of them are really, really good.

Okay, yeah, I'm going to enjoy the hell out of these games. It sounds almost like a dream game of mine (Warren Spector's One City Block immersive sim idea). I love people-watching in open world games, so your description of the NPCs and the bustling city alone sounds absolutely amazing.

I'm getting the sense that the city is very lively and with a sense of lived-in history like Yakuza's hubs. Loved walking the alleys and sidestreets in 0
 

Deleted member 29237

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YES

I backed Shenmue 3 having never played the first 2 because I was hoping the display of interest would lead to something like this.
 

cireza

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Nov 21, 2017
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To be honest, this doesn't look better than my Dreamcast games running in VGA. But at least, more people will get to play it ?
 

Deleted member 12790

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RE: VF and Shenmue, just to point it out:

tdMiky9.jpg


Ryo and Akira were obviously the same person once

mI2D3GT.jpg


Lan Di and Lau Chan were pretty obviously the same character, too (and Lau even wears a Lan Di inspired outfit in VF5)

5WoYbCx.jpg


Aoi from VF3...

741LsCo.jpg


New character in Shenmue III

You could also argue that Xiuying and Pai Chan were once the same character.

And while not VF...

G5DHRwC.jpg


HeiCAUU.jpg


I always felt that dude was a call back to Mauler in Fighting Vipers.
 

OrochiJR

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,682
The best news to wake up to! I hope they make some kind of special edition/ collector's edition too.

Also it's a good thing we get reworked controls. I already thought the OG controls to be a pain in the ass back in 2000.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,783
This is amazing. I mean, I knew this was coming eventually, as Sega would be stupid to not release Shenmue 1 and 2 so that new players can continue when 3 comes out.

Looks like I might pick up the PC version of the HD ports. I kind of like the idea of mods for games when possible. I already have 3 set to PS4 from the Kickstarter, but I guess I don't mind splitting them between different systems.

Anyway, hooray! Now I can play through Shenmue 2. The disc was badly damaged so I could only play disc 1. I was really disappointed. It was an import copy too.
 
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