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Halo |OT| She's Gone, Sir

When will Halo Infinite be revealed?

  • Yes, before E3

    Votes: 13 11.8%

  • Yes, during E3

    Votes: 20 18.2%

  • Wait, E3 was canceled

    Votes: 32 29.1%

  • Daisy, Daisy...

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • I will not... allow you... to leave. This. PLANET!

    Votes: 14 12.7%

  • Halo's just dad.

    Votes: 29 26.4%
  • Total voters
    110
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Stinkles

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Not a Designer, so the following is my observation/opinion as a player - with regard to ADS - I consider "true" ADS to be a form of lock on/snap aim rather than zoom/visual accuracy assist. But to the "most people don't care/notice so why not remove it" the counterargument is that if you did remove it, it would feel like a convenient "standard" for shooter controls had been removed. I'm not demanding folks like it, but you can't look at a null response and gather from that that they actually don't care. Often silence is a form of assent, and obviously we do deeper research than just observing the dead numbers. But again I personally don't ever think of Halo's zoom effect as ADS. Other weapon changes are vastly more meaningful to the gameplay. I probably play too much Super Fiesta tho.
 
TotalSellout

TotalSellout

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31
Redmond, WA
Stinkles said:
Not a Designer, so the following is my observation/opinion as a player - with regard to ADS - I consider "true" ADS to be a form of lock on/snap aim rather than zoom/visual accuracy assist. But to the "most people don't care/notice so why not remove it" the counterargument is that if you did remove it, it would feel like a convenient "standard" for shooter controls had been removed. I'm not demanding folks like it, but you can't look at a null response and gather from that that they actually don't care. Often silence is a form of assent, and obviously we do deeper research than just observing the dead numbers. But again I personally don't ever think of Halo's zoom effect as ADS. Other weapon changes are vastly more meaningful to the gameplay. I probably play too much Super Fiesta tho.
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And speaking for myself, I've never considered H5 smart link as ADS, but rather Zoom evolved. Others will disagree, and that's ok.
 
yankeeh8er

yankeeh8er

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,025
Dracula Georgia
So I watched the Halo 3 Xbox One X comparison video in the op and I don't even understand how it is possible that it is going to look that much better. It is witchcraft. I really had no idea that games would get improvements like that.
 
TCKaos

TCKaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
33
Stinkles said:
Not a Designer, so the following is my observation/opinion as a player - with regard to ADS - I consider "true" ADS to be a form of lock on/snap aim rather than zoom/visual accuracy assist. But to the "most people don't care/notice so why not remove it" the counterargument is that if you did remove it, it would feel like a convenient "standard" for shooter controls had been removed. I'm not demanding folks like it, but you can't look at a null response and gather from that that they actually don't care. Often silence is a form of assent, and obviously we do deeper research than just observing the dead numbers. But again I personally don't ever think of Halo's zoom effect as ADS. Other weapon changes are vastly more meaningful to the gameplay. I probably play too much Super Fiesta tho.
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This is mostly my feelings on the matter as well, with the added caveat that I'm not a fan of automatics getting better accuracy with ADS or them having headshot bonuses.

These are also my approximate feelings regarding Halo 5's use of sprint (versus Halo 4's or Reach's, which I abhorred).
 
Oh no

Oh no

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
I think it's ADS. Watered down compared to other shooters but it still affects gameplay no matter how slightly, it isn't just a cosmetic change.

Sprint and clamber bother me more though because they affect map design. Means dev maps can't be used for the Halo 3 playlist etc because they're huge due to sprint and some routes are designed around clamber. Some of the forge maps are great but I prefer dev built maps when possible. I'd imagine sprint and clamber are staying but hopefully using Halo 5 as a jumping off point means there's room for dev maps in all playlists like big team and (hopefully!) classic playlists.
 
jem

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,757
To be called ADS there has to be a movement penalty IMO.

That's the big effect of ADS, it slows gameplay down by forcing players to zoom in all but the closest of ranges and then in turn penalises them for doing that.
 
ATOMICJORGE

ATOMICJORGE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,431
Stinkles said:
I can't get mobile or dark mode to work on iphone/Edge respectively, but otherwise a lovely breath of fresh air until the folks who were using burner accounts to troll gaf get here.
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Hi Stinkles it's good to see you here my friend I'm glad that you are here with us speaking about dark mode I heard they we're working on it as a top priority
 
b_chamba

b_chamba

Member
Oct 26, 2017
65
I've been playing a ton of MCC lately with my brothers after they both left to Gainseville. Can confirm we not dad yet
 
Prinz Eugn

Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
Stinkles said:
Not a Designer, so the following is my observation/opinion as a player - with regard to ADS - I consider "true" ADS to be a form of lock on/snap aim rather than zoom/visual accuracy assist. But to the "most people don't care/notice so why not remove it" the counterargument is that if you did remove it, it would feel like a convenient "standard" for shooter controls had been removed. I'm not demanding folks like it, but you can't look at a null response and gather from that that they actually don't care. Often silence is a form of assent, and obviously we do deeper research than just observing the dead numbers. But again I personally don't ever think of Halo's zoom effect as ADS. Other weapon changes are vastly more meaningful to the gameplay. I probably play too much Super Fiesta tho.
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I understand the reasons for it, but it's still kind of sad that you have to bend to convention since breaking them is too risky.

My biggest gripe right now is that I'm beginning to feel penalized for having scope on the classic mapping (right stick click), rather than trigger.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
I can't play without grenades on left trigger. ADS on stick is unusable as ADS, though it works as zoom. But it ain't classic zoom...
 
blue_phazon

blue_phazon

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,317
Solution that benefits everyone: Just have a toggle in the options for "Classic" zoom or "Modern" zoom.

Yay problem solved!

Hire Phazon
 
Masterz1337

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,817
jem said:
You can't just say it only affects RRR when RRR has such a massive impact on combat. For precision weapons the difference between current zoom and classic zoom is negligible, I'm not sure what you're point is regarding SWAT.

As for the other weapons, they never had zoom in the first place so again I'd argue it's more accurate to describe the changes in H5 as adding zoom to all the weapons than saying it added ADS.
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While RRR does impact a weapon, it impacts it in more ways in H5. With swat, you can tell how the different ADS properties effect the magnetism of the bullets in ways that aren't as easy to discern with classic scope. Notably the headshot magnetism on the BR which the pistol lacks.

Stinkles said:
Not a Designer, so the following is my observation/opinion as a player - with regard to ADS - I consider "true" ADS to be a form of lock on/snap aim rather than zoom/visual accuracy assist. But to the "most people don't care/notice so why not remove it" the counterargument is that if you did remove it, it would feel like a convenient "standard" for shooter controls had been removed. I'm not demanding folks like it, but you can't look at a null response and gather from that that they actually don't care. Often silence is a form of assent, and obviously we do deeper research than just observing the dead numbers. But again I personally don't ever think of Halo's zoom effect as ADS. Other weapon changes are vastly more meaningful to the gameplay. I probably play too much Super Fiesta tho.
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While I know you can't share it, it be interesting to see what statics you guys have on it. I'd be interested to know how much people use ADS on certain weapons. Clearly people use it on the precision weapons and hydra, but how much does it get used on the needler, pp, FRG and other weapons where the effects are a bit more invisible. Just to play devils advocate, if silence is a form of assent, was there anything but silence in the past about Halo not having ADS? I suppose it existed outside the halo community, but I can't remember anyone within in it complaining about the lack of it. Personally, the zoom masks on the H4 weapons are my favorite out of the whole series, they were really beautiful and immersive without deviating from what I expected.

Woorloog said:
I can't play without grenades on left trigger. ADS on stick is unusable as ADS, though it works as zoom. But it ain't classic zoom...
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I always play with the Halo 4 scheme and ADS on the left stick. I don't ever seem to have problems with it. I need grenades on my left trigger, or left bumper if I am playing on the PC.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
Masterz1337 said:
I always play with the Halo 4 scheme and ADS on the left stick. I don't ever seem to have problems with it. I need grenades on my left trigger, or left bumper if I am playing on the PC.
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It just feels weird somehow.
Figure it is psychological. Since it looks like ADS, part of me tries to treat is as one. And i never use sticky ADS under normal circumstances, always hold... Kinda hard to explain.
And when i try to play the game as Halo, i treat it as zoom, and therefore i lose the benefits it confers roughly 90% of time. Not big on zooming in Halo in combat since getting shot disabled zoom, and that ruined aiming, i tried to learn to shoot without scope often.
I don't know if this makes sense, it just felt really weird somehow.
 
Anton

Anton

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
671
Got too used to Halo 3 default, have to use recon in Reach, 4 and 5
 
Tappin Brews

Tappin Brews

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,884
i'm with jem

halo 5 ADS is largely traditional halo aiming but with a more "ADS visual flair" ala cod. i did say largely though, i certainly would like halo 6 to dial down some of the benefits to 5's ADS such as the aforementioned auto benefits
 
Haruko

Haruko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,641
I use a bastardized "Halo 4" scheme on H5 with my elite controller/some remapping:

Left analog click = B button (Crouch)
Left paddle = Left analog click (Sprint)
Right paddle = A button (Jump)

I'm too used to right-analog click zooming with Halo to change to Left Trigger ADS.

Nice thing about those 3 button remappings is they work decently for me in pretty much every other shooter (Destiny, the Division, etc)
 
DemonCarnotaur

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,229
NYC
If Halo 6 doesn't get rid of clamber, I hope MP map design isn't built around it.

Build the map flow primarily based on jumping and crouch jumping, get the classic fast flow where gunplay doesn't halt.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
i expect H6 forge to be iterative of what we have now, 343 I'm tellin ya, just port Nokalanche with ctf pistol starts and you have a 24/7/365 playlist people love
 
Prinz Eugn

Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
Woorloog said:
Sure, why not. But as long as it is classic BTB!

And no uber Banshees like in Reach, Halo 4 and 5...
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Yeah, the Banshee is horribly unbalanced if you have a half competent pilot. If you can use its mobility to avoid fire, you're almost unstoppable.

I'm waiting for 343i to have another team jump into Warzone, get smashed again, and do some balancing like they did last time.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,608
Prinz Eugn said:
I understand the reasons for it, but it's still kind of sad that you have to bend to convention since breaking them is too risky.

My biggest gripe right now is that I'm beginning to feel penalized for having scope on the classic mapping (right stick click), rather than trigger.
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This reminds me, I really hope with all the control /aiming options we have in Halo 5 that we'll finally get customizable controls in Halo 6.

I want to try the Recon control scheme but with zoom on LT and grenades on the right stick.
 
wwm0nkey

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,589
Honestly, right now I'm more excited about MCC getting fixed than 6. I'll still buy 6 and I'm excited for it, but I can wait to see what they are doing with it
 
Oh no

Oh no

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
wwm0nkey said:
Honestly, right now I'm more excited about MCC getting fixed than 6. I'll still buy 6 and I'm excited for it, but I can wait to see what they are doing with it
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I'm kinda the same. Assumed MCC was as good as it was ever going to get and now it's getting fixes & upgrades. Wish it was done earlier but better late than never! Hope they give it away with Gold or something similar when the patch drops to help raise the population.
 
Glass

Glass

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,244
Made it, good to be here.

Funny how things work out. Shiny new forum coincides with a lot of new things to get excited about - H5 upgrade on XBX, work on MCC, H6 somewhere over the horizon.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
And in time for this weekend for killing nazis, or stomping goombas, or... whatever they do in the new AC.
 
Trup1aya

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Stinkles said:
Not a Designer, so the following is my observation/opinion as a player - with regard to ADS - I consider "true" ADS to be a form of lock on/snap aim rather than zoom/visual accuracy assist. But to the "most people don't care/notice so why not remove it" the counterargument is that if you did remove it, it would feel like a convenient "standard" for shooter controls had been removed. I'm not demanding folks like it, but you can't look at a null response and gather from that that they actually don't care. Often silence is a form of assent, and obviously we do deeper research than just observing the dead numbers. But again I personally don't ever think of Halo's zoom effect as ADS. Other weapon changes are vastly more meaningful to the gameplay. I probably play too much Super Fiesta tho.
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My main issue is that there appears to be a belief that Halo must follow "standards". That core gameplay mechanics are being changed NOT because designers feel that they make Halo better, but because they make Halo more like other games in the genre.

I've seen similar logic from 343 used to defend Sprints inclusion. The speaker didn't explain how sprint improved Halo's gameplay. He didn't address the issues people have been bringing up on how it impact weapon balancing or map pacing/design. He ultimately determined that following trends is the right thing to do.

What's interesting to me is that whenever I access weapons that don't require an "aim down sights" effect (sniper, classic BR etc) I never feel like a "convienient standard" has been taken away. I feel like the visual clarity is more convienent. Also, when I'm hit at range with weapons that weren't rangy until 2015, it doesn't feel convienent either.

My biggest issue with aiming down sights isn't even gameplay related (though those issues do bother me) - It damages my suspension of disbelief. After becoming invested into the idea of the mjolnir and how it's HUD links to a weapon's viewfinder, it makes no sense to me that UNSC would go backwards and settle on tech that reduces their soldiers' FOV.
 
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