No, he was never a savior. He's also not nearly the coward he was made in the show.
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‘The Walking Dead’ – Season 8 - Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Maggie is just annoying on the show. She has moments of stupidity in the comic as well but she is a much more stable and level-headed person there and you buy her as a leader.
On the show she's just an emotional wreck and last night's conspiracy moment just reinforces that.
The thing that most excites me about Negan living is seeing him grow more as a character. The episodes where he hung out with someone else and we got to know more about him were some of my favorites. I just wish Carl were still alive. Gotta wonder if they'll let him keep Lucille. I feel like a lot of people will be against that..
I mean think about it. Remember how much of a wreck Rick was when his family members died? Dude didn't even see it happen. Now imagine being in Maggie's shoes, seeing it happen in a brutal fashion and then not being able to do a single thing about it.
Well, I thought it was a mixed bag, like most of the last couple of seasons. I liked most of the character moments, save for the Maggie/Jesus/Daryl scene. I'd have been fine with Maggie/Daryl having a conversation questioning Rick's decision in a more honest way, but the lighting, music, and execution was such a huge tone shift. That scene was so jarring and completely out of place both stylistically and thematically. And Jesus being present made no sense for his character at all.
But, the biggest failings, as always in recent seasons, are the show runners/writers complete lack of knowledge involving even the basic concepts of survival and battle tactics. Like, how in the hell could Rick and Co. possibly have survived this long being so stupid when it comes to warfare? "Hey- here's a new map showing Negan's fallback position should there be trouble. Let's go there and ambush him." Fast forward an hour or two. "Is that the spot down there? Hmmm. It's just a wide open fishbowl with no natural cover. Not sure why anyone would choose that as a fallback position. Hey, let's go down there and stand in it!"
But, the biggest failings, as always in recent seasons, are the show runners/writers complete lack of knowledge involving even the basic concepts of survival and battle tactics. Like, how in the hell could Rick and Co. possibly have survived this long being so stupid when it comes to warfare? "Hey- here's a new map showing Negan's fallback position should there be trouble. Let's go there and ambush him." Fast forward an hour or two. "Is that the spot down there? Hmmm. It's just a wide open fishbowl with no natural cover. Not sure why anyone would choose that as a fallback position. Hey, let's go down there and stand in it!"
Having finally caught up on the comic, I agree.
The comic really is quite good and the show is best when it sticks to that particular script and tends to be much worse when it deviates.
To be fair, I think the show has done certain things better, like fleshing out the Governor (he's pretty one-dimensional in the comics) but when they veer off radically from the story beats of the source material or try to add worthless characters and factions like the Trash People and Oceanside, it really drags down the proceedings.
You would think they would've test fired at least one of these homemade rounds before leaving....nahhh I guess.
It was laughable but fits in with what this show has become...
I accept that explanation to a point but the conspiracy scene was just so stupid and unneeded, even if it amounts to nothing next season.
And like I stated, she's a much better character in the comics. Hopefully they really flesh out her leadership attributes next season because right now, she just seems unstable and obsessed with revenge.
I think that it's fine for Maggie to plan to kill Negan because she will never forgive him. I think that's more believable than accepting the situation. What I have a problem with is bringing Daryl and Jesus into a conspiracy and esp. the way they filmed it, like they were planning to off a mob boss or something.
I tuned out at the start of the season but watched the finale. Weak ass shit. The heel turn is beyond pathetic and cheap audience manipulation. Watch it lead to nothing 2 episodes into the new season.
Also, the Whisperers suck, keep them off the show. That storyline is fucked w/o Carl anyway
I've been wondering this too. At the rate they're going Judith will be a tween before Maggie has her baby.
I read a theory on another board that the entire Godfather scene was Negan dreaming because it hard cut from that to Negan waking up....anyone buying that?
I don't, doesn't make sense for one and does he even know who Jesus is? Why would he be in the dream?
I don't, doesn't make sense for one and does he even know who Jesus is? Why would he be in the dream?
Maggie, Jesus and Daryl is the dumbest thing this show has ever done. So fucking stupid. Like wtf!? Ugh, I was so on board with loving the hell out of TWD again with this episode and then then that idiotic shit happens? Are you fucking kidding me? Season 9 better be there last because this show just jumped the shark for me (I know it did already has for a lot of people but I reeeaalllllly wanted to like the show, but this is shit tier stupid).
Ep was actually decent until the evil OGs swerve. That's some dumb shit
I actually like how Maggie reacted to Rick sparing Neegan, but to top it off with that shit, then include Daryl and Jesus!?!
I actually like how Maggie reacted to Rick sparing Neegan, but to top it off with that shit, then include Daryl and Jesus!?!
The funniest part of the Maggie gang was the dark lighting they had them in to make them seem extra sinister lol
"Hisssss shut all of the blinds, Jesus! I wish to tell you of a plot most sinister in its design! Hisssssss!"
"But why do we have to shut-"
"HISSSSSSSSS SHUT THEM"
I think you are all reading too much into the Maggie scene. I don't feel like they mean to be actively hostile towards rick, I think they just want to kill Negan and show Rick he was wrong. Also, just because Jesus is there that doesn't mean he will agree to maggie's plan. For all we know, he will immediately walk out of that room and head straight for Rick to tell him what they are planning.
In the comics Jesus is kind of a right hand man to Rick at this point, perhaps this could be how they move in that direction with his character?
In the comics Jesus is kind of a right hand man to Rick at this point, perhaps this could be how they move in that direction with his character?
I skipped out on most of this season, did Maggie have her baby yet? Is that the baby Enid had or was that Judith?
Pretty sure that was Maggie's. Judith is a toddler these days.
Literally the only way it makes sense for Jesus to be there is to deliver this info to Rick. Any agreement at all totally betrays the character they've built for him, pretty much since his introduction.
That said, yeah, I never took it as "we're betraying Rick", more of "I don't agree with this one decision about Negan and we need to kill him".
I don't really think it's out of character for Maggie, especially considering Glenn.
Judith will eventually become new Carl.
I actually thought the finale was fine (I only tuned in for the season premiers and finales), but really felt put off by that "trio of doom" scene. It doesn't feel like there's anything compelling enough on the horizon to make me want to tune in next season, but I'll give it a shot.
I actually thought the finale was fine (I only tuned in for the season premiers and finales), but really felt put off by that "trio of doom" scene. It doesn't feel like there's anything compelling enough on the horizon to make me want to tune in next season, but I'll give it a shot.
That's the baby Rick found at the savior outpost. Maggie is still pregnant.
Maggie has not had her baby. Only a few weeks have passed since Glen's death in the shows timeline. The baby in that scene was "Gracie", the baby that rick gave to Aaron after he killed the father at one of the savior's outposts.
Why would Jesus do a 180 in the meeting in the last scene? I skipped the last two episodes please fill me in.
Well that's explains the melt down better at the end. I figured 2 years went by.
The most ridiculous thing to me was Rick killing nameless Saviors left and right only to suddenly grow a conscience when it came to the one person who deserved death the most. I feel like if he had any respect for Maggie he would've left Negan's fate in her hands rather than force his decision on her. Like just don't separate the pregnant lady from her target it's not that hard.
Jesus was in the meeting but I think people are jumping to conclusions and thinking just because he was there meant he was all in on betraying Rick. He respects Maggie and she probably called a meeting so he went to hear her out.
This is all I could think of when Daryl stepped out of the shadows.
Both scenes made me laugh but only one of them was supposed to.
I gotta say that was a pretty underwhelming battle compared to the comics and a disappointing finale to say the least.
Yeah, very disappointed nobody dies in this episode. Not even a scratch.
LOL it makes no sense. She ran "without looking back" (according to her) just to tell Negan that Dwight was the traitor, that's dedication right there. Now all of a sudden she surrenders and becomes a "good-guy", yeah whatever.
Yeah, very disappointed nobody dies in this episode. Not even a scratch.
LOL it makes no sense. She ran "without looking back" (according to her) just to tell Negan that Dwight was the traitor, that's dedication right there. Now all of a sudden she surrenders and becomes a "good-guy", yeah whatever.
*scene starts with back and forth about how Rick was right about saving some saviors..."
The menacing part to me, that made it sound like more than "we are going to kill Negan" was:
1) Her entire tone; and killing Negan wouldn't be hard or require some plot.. require "biding your time" or gainnig strength..
2) The way she transitions form the speach about "the people who live here, we need to gain strength" to then singling out Rick and Michone, almost as if they aren't included, and they are who they need to build their strength up against.
But it can be interpreted in a lot of ways of course. If it is just about killing Negan, then.. that is fucking dumb and doesn't require any sort of plotting. If it's actually a complete turn on Rick and Michone, that is fucking dumb and a huge character change for Maggie and even Daryl who has never had issue with Michone and only minor issues with Rick.
And no way Jesus will be a part of it. Not sure why anyone here thinks so... if that happens... well.. Jesus.
Maggie: But not about Negan.
Jesus: What does that mean, Maggie?
Maggie: We have a lot to do, we have to build this place up. Make it work better than before, make it thrive for the people who live here. We need our strength, the ability to defend ourselves better. We have to have that.
Jesus: We Will
Maggie: But Rick and Michonne... Rick was wrong to do what he did... Michone too. So we're gonna bide our time, wait for our moment... and then we're gonna show him.
Daryl: Yeah.. We Will.
Jesus: What does that mean, Maggie?
Maggie: We have a lot to do, we have to build this place up. Make it work better than before, make it thrive for the people who live here. We need our strength, the ability to defend ourselves better. We have to have that.
Jesus: We Will
Maggie: But Rick and Michonne... Rick was wrong to do what he did... Michone too. So we're gonna bide our time, wait for our moment... and then we're gonna show him.
Daryl: Yeah.. We Will.
The menacing part to me, that made it sound like more than "we are going to kill Negan" was:
1) Her entire tone; and killing Negan wouldn't be hard or require some plot.. require "biding your time" or gainnig strength..
2) The way she transitions form the speach about "the people who live here, we need to gain strength" to then singling out Rick and Michone, almost as if they aren't included, and they are who they need to build their strength up against.
But it can be interpreted in a lot of ways of course. If it is just about killing Negan, then.. that is fucking dumb and doesn't require any sort of plotting. If it's actually a complete turn on Rick and Michone, that is fucking dumb and a huge character change for Maggie and even Daryl who has never had issue with Michone and only minor issues with Rick.
And no way Jesus will be a part of it. Not sure why anyone here thinks so... if that happens... well.. Jesus.
The show seems to be notorious for build up which amounts to nothing.
She's the only one (outside of Eugine) that knows Dwight has turned, its made into a big deal, she snitches on him and not only does Dwight get off safely but she lives too.
Well that was disappointing. Felt like the whole Negan arc dragged on forever then it's over so quickly. There are way too many annoying characters and I don't know if I like what they are setting Maggie + Daryl up for.
I think it's time to ditch the show. At the very least I'll not be watching when new episodes air. If I bother with it again I'll wait for 2-3 seasons to pass.
I think it's time to ditch the show. At the very least I'll not be watching when new episodes air. If I bother with it again I'll wait for 2-3 seasons to pass.
The entire Rick thing was so ridiculous...and the fact that in the span of literally 30 sec. the entire Saviors/Hilltop war was settled and everything is harmonious now.....lol wut.
As far as Maggie goes, I don't know why her or someone else didn't just take the shot to take Negan out when he had Rick compromised...it was made clear they were all standing there watching...
Negan should have died. In no scenario is him living acceptable. Why make a change from the comic - Carl - and not also kill off Negan?
This show has hit Dexter Season 8 levels of stupid.
This show has hit Dexter Season 8 levels of stupid.
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I assume she'll take over Sherry's role from the comics. People shouldn't assume that, because the Saviors were smiling at the end, there isn't still bad blood between the groups that's going to factor back into things at some point.
This whole negan bullshit will carry on next season but lowkey from his bed.
I give it 4-5 episodes until we see the rick the dick again.
I give it 4-5 episodes until we see the rick the dick again.
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I'm glad it won't be that big a driving force. Just some passive aggressiveness like I thought.
This dude really had no clue what he was doing IMO. There's a reason so many people interpreted it as a threat to Rick and Michone, lol.. nice work Gimple.
Negan is less sympathetic than he was in the comics but then again, so too is Rick and Co.
They hit Negan's people pretty damn hard and killed quite a few of them before they even knew who the Saviors really were and the last couple of episodes have reinforced how brutal Rick himself can be so I think Negan still has a place in this future.
That said, Negan's arc in the comic has been fantastic. I don't know if this show will do it justice.
Meh, that was kind of underwhelming and anticlimactic. The sabotaged guns backfiring was admittedly a pretty fun moment but I expected a LOT more after two seasons of buildup. The battle was over before it even started really. Not sure how this encounter played out in the comics, but it came across as especially lazy here. Like the creative team wanted to wrap things up as quickly and cost effective as possible and this was the end result. You would expect there to be at least one casualty in a story arc titled "All Out War."
The Maggie and Jesus ending scene with the sinister music and Daryl stepping out of the shadows was so damn corny and should've been left on the cutting room floor. I guess they're planning on going the "civil war" route next season, but it feels really forced here. Considering how often these characters flip-flop (Jesus in this episode being a prime example) I don't really have any faith in the writers creating compelling conflicts between these characters.
The last two seasons have largely felt like a waste of time. All of that time spent on Morgan's mental issues amounted to pretty much nothing and he just finally leaves (good riddance). All that time spent on the garbage people then they're all killed off before the war even takes place. And all that time spent on Oceanside just for them to show up for a quick totally unnecessary ten second scene where they throw a couple of molotov cocktails and aren't seen again. I hope the new showrunner is able to turn things around.
The Maggie and Jesus ending scene with the sinister music and Daryl stepping out of the shadows was so damn corny and should've been left on the cutting room floor. I guess they're planning on going the "civil war" route next season, but it feels really forced here. Considering how often these characters flip-flop (Jesus in this episode being a prime example) I don't really have any faith in the writers creating compelling conflicts between these characters.
The last two seasons have largely felt like a waste of time. All of that time spent on Morgan's mental issues amounted to pretty much nothing and he just finally leaves (good riddance). All that time spent on the garbage people then they're all killed off before the war even takes place. And all that time spent on Oceanside just for them to show up for a quick totally unnecessary ten second scene where they throw a couple of molotov cocktails and aren't seen again. I hope the new showrunner is able to turn things around.
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It was the same in the comics - the biggest deaths were the tiger and I guess Holly and Denise. The show at least had one major death in Carl, but his death was unrelated to the war.
All except Morgan at least, it has been confirmed Lennie is leaving the show to become a regular in FTWD
Not satisfied with this finale to be honest, one of the weakest finales of the show so far. Definitely on par with S4 (I think?) when they had that fake Governor end battle only for the bad guys to bail after 5 minutes. I feel similarly in this episode. They built up some stupid shit like the Morgan storyline and wasted time with minor things, then they kinda finished the battle in a hurry. All Out War, huh, half the people died because of a phoned sabotaged bullet strategy, and supersmart Negan didn't bother testing out any of the bullets. Just... why. Also they literally attached coloured glassed onto a tree in the middle of nothing to reconnect to those flash forwards from earlier this season. The final battle between Rick and Negan was also completely underwhelming, just rolling around and shit. Rick then fake kills him in a very goofy way, but then decides to save him because Carl thought him the way of peace. Doesn't matter he's been murdering Saviors left and right until then, Negan somehow deserves redemption because fuck Maggie apparently.
About Maggie, good to know betrayalthon doesn't seem to be the theme of next season because it seems stupid as shit. Maggie's point of view is understandable, even D's to an extent, but wtf is with Jesus? But this also puts us in a situation where the isn't anything special to look forward to. I expected them to elaborate on the helicopters, tease something cool, they had like 10 minutes after Negan getting his throat nearly cut. And then... it just never happened. Good to know, also, that we wasted entire episodes on that girl party only for them to show up in the finale for 5 seconds, and the trash people apparently amounting to nothing but a copout for Morgan, whose departure from the show has been known for long, so at least I hoped he would go out in style, not just randomly walk to the trash lady.
I just don't understand what are they doing. They failed to make me excited for season 9 because they didn't really leave anything interesting to look forward to. Maybe a trailer will drop during the summer that will tease something incredible. Maybe the new showrunner will do the show justice after some very hit and miss seasons. But as it stands, I expected an epic final battle and it was a disappointing episode with a lot of filler storylines (lol at a blind guy attempting to run away from armed psychos), an underwhelming climax, and, again, nothing special coming up apparently. Terminus was trash in hindsight, but they hyped it up to be something noteworthy, I was legit hyped back then. Here I'm just feeling disappointed, confused. I don't know what I expected but I am disappointed. I'll still stick around and all, but holy shit this show can have insane lows.
About Maggie, good to know betrayalthon doesn't seem to be the theme of next season because it seems stupid as shit. Maggie's point of view is understandable, even D's to an extent, but wtf is with Jesus? But this also puts us in a situation where the isn't anything special to look forward to. I expected them to elaborate on the helicopters, tease something cool, they had like 10 minutes after Negan getting his throat nearly cut. And then... it just never happened. Good to know, also, that we wasted entire episodes on that girl party only for them to show up in the finale for 5 seconds, and the trash people apparently amounting to nothing but a copout for Morgan, whose departure from the show has been known for long, so at least I hoped he would go out in style, not just randomly walk to the trash lady.
I just don't understand what are they doing. They failed to make me excited for season 9 because they didn't really leave anything interesting to look forward to. Maybe a trailer will drop during the summer that will tease something incredible. Maybe the new showrunner will do the show justice after some very hit and miss seasons. But as it stands, I expected an epic final battle and it was a disappointing episode with a lot of filler storylines (lol at a blind guy attempting to run away from armed psychos), an underwhelming climax, and, again, nothing special coming up apparently. Terminus was trash in hindsight, but they hyped it up to be something noteworthy, I was legit hyped back then. Here I'm just feeling disappointed, confused. I don't know what I expected but I am disappointed. I'll still stick around and all, but holy shit this show can have insane lows.