80s Who bordered on Look and Read levels of quality at times. That it's now at a point where the BBC can run episodes in the cinema is borderline miraculous.
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The money they were making it on was ludicrous. I'm surprised it was as good as it was at times.
You can't just say that. Who were "they" in that sentence? Was the money ludicrous because it was very low or very high, or for some other ludicrous reason (for instance, in coinage that could only be spent in the BBC canteen)?
I do agree that it was good. So good, in fact, that it gave rise to a secondary eflorescence which has endured from 2005 to the present day.
That's Twice Upon A Time read. I'm not that keen on the actual story and the novelisation is the weakest of the four, although was disadvantaged by the fact it was initially based on the shooting script and then edited to fit the broadcast.
The writing has a slightly muddy feel at times and often isn't great when it goes inside character's heads, as I guess it was forced to do by the lack of visual detail to elaborate when it was drafted. We can see inside the Doctor's head when he finally decides to regenerate this time and yet the decision appears equally arbitrary, in fact even more so, than in the television version.
It's certainly not bad, and it doesn't help that I don't like the original material, but I'm glad that out of non-showrunners Jenny T Colgan and Paul Cornell, Colgan seems more keen on doing more. In terms of additions, there are supposed to be added bits of scenes, although they didn't leap out at me, and the prose embellishments have a very licensed fiction/official fanfiction feel to them.
Although this is my least favourite of the four as a novelisation, it is not massively lower than the others in quality in the grand scheme of things and it rounds off what is overall a very successful set of books that make up what I hope will be merely the first phase of new series novelisations.
The writing has a slightly muddy feel at times and often isn't great when it goes inside character's heads, as I guess it was forced to do by the lack of visual detail to elaborate when it was drafted. We can see inside the Doctor's head when he finally decides to regenerate this time and yet the decision appears equally arbitrary, in fact even more so, than in the television version.
It's certainly not bad, and it doesn't help that I don't like the original material, but I'm glad that out of non-showrunners Jenny T Colgan and Paul Cornell, Colgan seems more keen on doing more. In terms of additions, there are supposed to be added bits of scenes, although they didn't leap out at me, and the prose embellishments have a very licensed fiction/official fanfiction feel to them.
Although this is my least favourite of the four as a novelisation, it is not massively lower than the others in quality in the grand scheme of things and it rounds off what is overall a very successful set of books that make up what I hope will be merely the first phase of new series novelisations.
Reminder that Grade was on record as saying that the first thing he would do if he was BBC 1 Controller was cancel Doctor Who years before he even worked at the BBC, and that the ratings during the first half of Season 22 (the point when the initial cancellation and then subsequent hiatus were made) were actually up year over year despite all of the budget cuts. Attack of the Cybermen was actually the most watched Doctor Who broadcast since Season 19.
It was the wrong idea at the time, and it looks even worse in hindsight. It was never about the ratings, or the quality of the show. All it came down to was that Grade didn't like Doctor Who.
It was the wrong idea at the time, and it looks even worse in hindsight. It was never about the ratings, or the quality of the show. All it came down to was that Grade didn't like Doctor Who.
Sorry, the various production teams from the start. The whole process was quite badly supported by various heads of drama at the BBC. The special effects were sometimes told to be made in the tens of pounds, or hopefully even less back in the day. The sets came out quite well for the most part, but the monsters really suffered. On top of that they were just desperately commissioning people to write scripts with the hope that some would be okay. The various script editors over the years were troopers.
From so many commentaries and DVD docos, it seems the budget was a big thing but worse were the time constraints, both in pre-production and in allocated time in the studio. In the 80's, as the intensity of the action increased, there wasn't a corresponding increase in recording time. I think a 4-parter might have had 2 sets of studio blocks (2 or 3 days, depending on how much film work was done). Some of the DVD's have clips from studio sessions and you can see how rushed they were, particularly when they had to stop recording at 10pm when the electricians would cut the power, even in the middle of a scene.
Looking back, they should have let the producer JNT leave the show in 85 but Powell (head of drama) and Grade persist in insisting no one wanted to take on the show (which seems odd, since they had history of putting first time producers on the show), and then the DVD doco cuts to a producer on another show at the BBC at the time who said they would have done it.
The show from 86-89 was a shadow of its former self, the production values occasionally went backwards (particularly in McCoy's first season) as well as the move to all videotape (at a time when dramas were going all film). Just as the BBC were moving towards independent producers making shows, Doctor Who was squeezed into nothing by keeping it inhouse. You can see what a different it might have made if you compare Red Dward series 2 with Red Dwarf III- the first season produced by an external company. They apparently had the same budget but they were able to use it so much more effectively.
anyway. it's done, the 16 year gap is a mere memory and we have the new show, though if you look at Ace and Rose, you can see the work towards making the companion a deeper character was already done. The only difference is, Rose didn't blow up stuff every episode.
Can't wait for the people involved in the current show to feel free to speak out. A retired Moffat and RTD letting loose (plus others) would make a great read.
Looking back, they should have let the producer JNT leave the show in 85 but Powell (head of drama) and Grade persist in insisting no one wanted to take on the show (which seems odd, since they had history of putting first time producers on the show), and then the DVD doco cuts to a producer on another show at the BBC at the time who said they would have done it.
The show from 86-89 was a shadow of its former self, the production values occasionally went backwards (particularly in McCoy's first season) as well as the move to all videotape (at a time when dramas were going all film). Just as the BBC were moving towards independent producers making shows, Doctor Who was squeezed into nothing by keeping it inhouse. You can see what a different it might have made if you compare Red Dward series 2 with Red Dwarf III- the first season produced by an external company. They apparently had the same budget but they were able to use it so much more effectively.
anyway. it's done, the 16 year gap is a mere memory and we have the new show, though if you look at Ace and Rose, you can see the work towards making the companion a deeper character was already done. The only difference is, Rose didn't blow up stuff every episode.
Can't wait for the people involved in the current show to feel free to speak out. A retired Moffat and RTD letting loose (plus others) would make a great read.
If you look at Star Trek from The Next Generation to Enterprise, it all seems very consistent because the producers kept to a consistent vision of the tone of Star Trek throughout, but the special effects stuff changing to CGI is a gradual but pretty major change throughout. I just can't help wondering if Doctor Who was better off sitting all that out and coming back as a CGI-oriented show in 2005.
The TNG years are also another example of a sci-fi show burning out after 20-odd seasons, so I also wonder if sometimes these things need to go away for a while so they can come back, technologically speaking, as part of a new generation of special-effects based television.
The show has also been very progressive in its values in a lot of ways since 2005 and I wonder if that might have been hampered if it had continually been in production instead of it going away and being reformulated when it came back.
The TNG years are also another example of a sci-fi show burning out after 20-odd seasons, so I also wonder if sometimes these things need to go away for a while so they can come back, technologically speaking, as part of a new generation of special-effects based television.
The show has also been very progressive in its values in a lot of ways since 2005 and I wonder if that might have been hampered if it had continually been in production instead of it going away and being reformulated when it came back.
name a band, franchise, game genre, etc you liked as a kid. Chances are it went through an unfashionable phase before nostalgia kicked in and now its back.
Invasion of the Dinosaurs
In the immortal words of Jon Pertwee: "Good grief, that's a Stegosaurus!"
So, elephant in the room: the dinosaur effects in this story are hilariously and pathetically awful. Even calling them effects is being generous; they're toys and puppets that look and move as convincingly as you'd imagine a blatant toy or a shitty-looking puppet would. Classic Who is rife with bad effects, and normally you can just dismiss them as consequences of a shoestring budget; it was a different era and set of circumstances for the show. Hell, sometimes they can be actually charming in their cheapness. But the dinosaurs in this story cross the line from being endearing and cheesy to just awful and lame. And it's especially problematic because these aren't one-offs that appear in an episode here or there. This story is called Invasion of the Dinosaurs, and there are multiple dinos in each of these six episodes!
And that's all a shame, because the script itself is actually quite strong, and probably one of the better ones of Pertwee's tenure. Written by Malcolm Hulke, so not surprising that it recaptures some of that gritter, more grounded aesthetic and tone of the early Season 7 Pertwee stories, which is still the collective high bar of the Third Doctor for me. There's some unfortunate and unnecessary padding here -- Sarah Jane leads herself into being captured by the antagonists twice, in the exact same way, and there's about half of an ep devoted entirely to the Doctor leading UNIT on a car chase, which is not as exciting as it sounds. But the antagonists' goal, and especially Mike Yates' role in the story, are surprisingly nuanced and dark -- plainly evil, sure, but more interesting and twist-y than the usual fare of, say, the Daleks trying to blow up this or the Master trying to take over that.
It's also a surprisingly funny story at times. Couldn't help but laugh at the constant interruptions of UNIT barging into the Doctor's lab whenever he managed to push someone out the door.
It's too bad that the bad dino fx have cast such a long shadow on this serial's reputation. They are terrible in their own right, but that aside, Invasion of the Dinosaurs is probably one of the better entries of the Pertwee era.
And with that, I'm coming down to the home stretch, as I tackle the Third Doctor's finale next: Planet of the Spiders
In the immortal words of Jon Pertwee: "Good grief, that's a Stegosaurus!"
So, elephant in the room: the dinosaur effects in this story are hilariously and pathetically awful. Even calling them effects is being generous; they're toys and puppets that look and move as convincingly as you'd imagine a blatant toy or a shitty-looking puppet would. Classic Who is rife with bad effects, and normally you can just dismiss them as consequences of a shoestring budget; it was a different era and set of circumstances for the show. Hell, sometimes they can be actually charming in their cheapness. But the dinosaurs in this story cross the line from being endearing and cheesy to just awful and lame. And it's especially problematic because these aren't one-offs that appear in an episode here or there. This story is called Invasion of the Dinosaurs, and there are multiple dinos in each of these six episodes!
And that's all a shame, because the script itself is actually quite strong, and probably one of the better ones of Pertwee's tenure. Written by Malcolm Hulke, so not surprising that it recaptures some of that gritter, more grounded aesthetic and tone of the early Season 7 Pertwee stories, which is still the collective high bar of the Third Doctor for me. There's some unfortunate and unnecessary padding here -- Sarah Jane leads herself into being captured by the antagonists twice, in the exact same way, and there's about half of an ep devoted entirely to the Doctor leading UNIT on a car chase, which is not as exciting as it sounds. But the antagonists' goal, and especially Mike Yates' role in the story, are surprisingly nuanced and dark -- plainly evil, sure, but more interesting and twist-y than the usual fare of, say, the Daleks trying to blow up this or the Master trying to take over that.
It's also a surprisingly funny story at times. Couldn't help but laugh at the constant interruptions of UNIT barging into the Doctor's lab whenever he managed to push someone out the door.
It's too bad that the bad dino fx have cast such a long shadow on this serial's reputation. They are terrible in their own right, but that aside, Invasion of the Dinosaurs is probably one of the better entries of the Pertwee era.
And with that, I'm coming down to the home stretch, as I tackle the Third Doctor's finale next: Planet of the Spiders
bad, bad, bad. the whole point of the new logo is that it has that through line, it looks bad stacked. I hope this doesn't become regular formatting...!
Considering all this, I don't think it looks that bad
I would have made the Who slightly off center to match the The and H vertical line to have something from the linear version
New logo watch: MEGATON EDITION
Someone mentioned a few weeks ago that Big Finish would be moving to the new logo and they've now released covers confirming this. We also now know that the new logo will be coming to the entire range, which has resulted in them redesigning their classic series artwork. Here is latest New Series-based Eighth Doctor boxset.
And here is the latest Classic main series Sixth Doctor release.
There will also be reversible covers with era-specific logos.
Someone mentioned a few weeks ago that Big Finish would be moving to the new logo and they've now released covers confirming this. We also now know that the new logo will be coming to the entire range, which has resulted in them redesigning their classic series artwork. Here is latest New Series-based Eighth Doctor boxset.
And here is the latest Classic main series Sixth Doctor release.
There will also be reversible covers with era-specific logos.
The new logo goes really well on the Time War set and the main range one is, like, fine, I guess, but oh gosh that reversible cover with the neon logo is perfect.
Not that any of it really matters much to me as someone that's purely digital with BF
Not that any of it really matters much to me as someone that's purely digital with BF
I've started using the Big Finish app so it's automatic now but when I used a third-party audiobook app I was very serious about my Big Finish tag data. I guess they'll include both covers with the digital release? I wonder if they'll redo any of the old covers.
I'm going to bet that the stacked version was made by Mixital for that image rather than provided to be used in that format, as we've yet to see it elsewhere. Could be wrong, but it's my hunch.
That was my gut feeling as well but it's surprising to see a BBC service, of all things, go rogue.
Even they had times when they were considered less impactful than OoT and SM64 (Gamecube era, Wii U era).
I would have said U2 managed to avoid this and stay relevant, until that free album pushed to iphones seemed to make them disappear. who knew that's all it would take?
Doctor Who currently has public goodwill (yeah it's down on where it was during the smith era but it has settled into a comfortable rhythm). It survived the moon being an egg.
Love the artwork on the Paul McGann Audio set. Are these recent Audio books that have already come out or are they set to release sometime soon?
I have yet to see anything from Paul McGann.
I have yet to see anything from Paul McGann.
The McGann one is from The Time War Volume 2 - Volume 1 is already out. If you've not listened to McGann audio before there are two jumping on points with absolutely no prior continuity - Storm Warning from the Doctor Who Main Range and Blood of the Daleks Part 1 from the Eighth Doctor Adventures. Big Finish have an offer on at the moment where you can get the digital versions of early stories from both these series for £1 each.
The Eighth Doctor Adventures are arguably a bit stronger than the Main Range Eighth Doctor stories as the TV series was back on by that point and the revised show gave them a good sense of direction. There are some good stories in the Main Range but the Eighth Doctor storyline eventually flounders in the absence of a clear direction for the story to go in. Hope this helps!
So I think I've decided I want to watch Torchwood. However, I also think I want to start at Series 3. Is this a terrible idea?
I've seen every episode of post-2005 Doctor Who. If there's any specific episodes of TW seasons 1 and 2 I should watch beforehand, let me know—but I'd very much like to not watch the whole thing. While I know very little of the plot itself, the first two seasons don't sound like something I'll like.
I've seen every episode of post-2005 Doctor Who. If there's any specific episodes of TW seasons 1 and 2 I should watch beforehand, let me know—but I'd very much like to not watch the whole thing. While I know very little of the plot itself, the first two seasons don't sound like something I'll like.
Yeah most of Torchwood Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty mediocre and Season 3 is the one really great season of the show. If you're a big fan of Martha Jones she shows up for a couple of episodes of season 2.
You're fine just watching Children of Earth. I guess it expects you to be familiar with the regular Torchwood cast and basic premise, but there's nothing you'd really be lost with or can't pick up. It's pretty different from the first two seasons anyway, especially past episode 1.
Thanks, this is what I wanted to hear!
Starting Torchwood anywhere other than series 1 episode 1 seems a little baffling to me. Do you want to know about Torchwood, or not? In particular, the new Doctor Who showrunner Chris Chibnall wrote 8 episodes in the first two series of Torchwood, while also acting as series co-producer and head writer.
Peter talks a bit about what life has been like away from Doctor Who.
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-04-23/doctor-who-peter-capaldi-leaving-decision-why/
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-04-23/doctor-who-peter-capaldi-leaving-decision-why/
Planet of the Spiders
Jon Pertwee's final episode as the Third Doctor and... well, it's pretty lame. Even if classic Who didn't make as big of an event out of regeneration as modern Who does, the previous two finales still had the Doctor squaring off against a major, imposing antagonist. With The Tenth Planet, you had the Cybermen. With The War Games, you had the Time Lords and soldiers from some of history's biggest wars. Here it's...some shitty-looking, oversized spiders that have psychic powers and can also shoot lightning bolts and can also possess people like ghosts and can also teleport, and they're in a league with a group of Buddhists living out in the country. I know they originally planned to have Pertwee go out facing against the Master one last time, and had to scrap that idea after Delgado died, but this really feels like something slapped together at the last minute.
Never mind the really lame villains, the plot doesn't even hang together all that well. From the spiders to the monks to the return of Mike Yates (who the Doctor and Sarah Jane seem to have quite quickly forgiven for trying to erase 99% of mankind from existence recently) to the Doctor's teacher to deus ex machina blue crystals, it's a lot of disparate random things being unconvincingly smashed together. This serial also has some of the most blatant padding -- there's a whole episode that's almost entirely chase scenes!
On the plus side: Pertwee is great here. And between some sharp lines, a little Venusian akido, and the aforementioned vehicle chases -- from Bessie to the hover car to that flying thing -- this does feel like he's running through a greatest hits list of Third Doctor-isms. It's funny, when I first introduced myself to the Third Doctor last year with The Daemons and The Three Doctors, my first impression was: wow, what an asshole. Really did not like him at all. And maybe it helps to see more of his episodes in context like I did this time instead of just cherrypicking 1 or 2 -- or maybe The Daemons was just a particularly bad showing of the Third Doctor's personality -- but I really grew to like the guy and his performance this time. And damn, did he rock those jackets.
Overall, Planet of the Spiders is not a good episode and as the finale for the Third Doctor era, it's maybe a little overdue -- I've been feeling burned on this era of the show out since a few serials ago -- but its final scene at the very least is a touching goodbye for Pertwee. And the Brig, with the last words of the episode, gives probably his best line reading ever to close it out: "Well, here we go again."
Jon Pertwee's final episode as the Third Doctor and... well, it's pretty lame. Even if classic Who didn't make as big of an event out of regeneration as modern Who does, the previous two finales still had the Doctor squaring off against a major, imposing antagonist. With The Tenth Planet, you had the Cybermen. With The War Games, you had the Time Lords and soldiers from some of history's biggest wars. Here it's...some shitty-looking, oversized spiders that have psychic powers and can also shoot lightning bolts and can also possess people like ghosts and can also teleport, and they're in a league with a group of Buddhists living out in the country. I know they originally planned to have Pertwee go out facing against the Master one last time, and had to scrap that idea after Delgado died, but this really feels like something slapped together at the last minute.
Never mind the really lame villains, the plot doesn't even hang together all that well. From the spiders to the monks to the return of Mike Yates (who the Doctor and Sarah Jane seem to have quite quickly forgiven for trying to erase 99% of mankind from existence recently) to the Doctor's teacher to deus ex machina blue crystals, it's a lot of disparate random things being unconvincingly smashed together. This serial also has some of the most blatant padding -- there's a whole episode that's almost entirely chase scenes!
On the plus side: Pertwee is great here. And between some sharp lines, a little Venusian akido, and the aforementioned vehicle chases -- from Bessie to the hover car to that flying thing -- this does feel like he's running through a greatest hits list of Third Doctor-isms. It's funny, when I first introduced myself to the Third Doctor last year with The Daemons and The Three Doctors, my first impression was: wow, what an asshole. Really did not like him at all. And maybe it helps to see more of his episodes in context like I did this time instead of just cherrypicking 1 or 2 -- or maybe The Daemons was just a particularly bad showing of the Third Doctor's personality -- but I really grew to like the guy and his performance this time. And damn, did he rock those jackets.
Overall, Planet of the Spiders is not a good episode and as the finale for the Third Doctor era, it's maybe a little overdue -- I've been feeling burned on this era of the show out since a few serials ago -- but its final scene at the very least is a touching goodbye for Pertwee. And the Brig, with the last words of the episode, gives probably his best line reading ever to close it out: "Well, here we go again."
Jon Pertwee loved anything with an engine, so spending most of an episode hopping from one motorized vehicle to another in a big unnecessary chase was a way of being a little indulgent for his final story.
Otherwise, it's the most Barry Letts story possible - featuring lots of Buddhist philosophy and awkward CSO.
Otherwise, it's the most Barry Letts story possible - featuring lots of Buddhist philosophy and awkward CSO.
A shame that Moffat felt he had to put that line in Vastra's mouth in Deep Breath. It made no sense in that context.
I'll stand up for Planet of the Spiders - it's spotty and a bit overlong, but it still feels fairly large-scale compared to most of the regeneration stories that followed. You've got the Jo Grant callback with the crystal from the Green Death, the biggest and most ambitious of Pertwee's many action scenes, the dalliances with Buddhism that had been going on since The Abominable Snowman - there's a lot of threads from the show coming together even if they don't fit all that well.
Whereas Logopolis has Ainley's Master but feels really cramped for the universe-ending threat it's meant to represent, Caves of Androzani is a great story but is ultimately just about some interplanetary drug war, and the less said about Time and the Rani the better.
Whereas Logopolis has Ainley's Master but feels really cramped for the universe-ending threat it's meant to represent, Caves of Androzani is a great story but is ultimately just about some interplanetary drug war, and the less said about Time and the Rani the better.
OP
OP
World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls is handily the best regeneration story we've ever had... notwithstanding the fact that he decides to bugger about for another 60 minutes after it ends and before he regenerates. It might not be about the end of the universe, but it cuts to the heart of the Doctor and what he stands for in a way that Moffat had been trying to land for years beforehand- it's epic and important on a character level, rather than on a plot level.
I'm by no means opposed to a small-scale regeneration, mind- Russell's initial concepts of the Tenth Doctor regenerating saving a single family from their faulty spaceship sounds far more engaging than The End of Time ended up being, despite its high points.
I'm by no means opposed to a small-scale regeneration, mind- Russell's initial concepts of the Tenth Doctor regenerating saving a single family from their faulty spaceship sounds far more engaging than The End of Time ended up being, despite its high points.
OP
OP
It's up there, for sure, but WEAT/TDF is amongst my favourite Doctor Who stories ever made, so I've got to give it the edge. They're the best scripts that Doctor Who's finest ever writer produced, after all (ooh, hot take!).
I don't mind Twice Upon a Time as a little coda to his run, but I think I'd probably have been more satisfied if they'd rejigged the end of The Doctor Falls a bit and had the Doctor regenerate there. I adored his mission statement and his willingness to sacrifice everything for it, but the refusal to regenerate afterwards kind of took the shine off it for me.
Parting of the Ways is pretty fantastic - I'd put it over The End of Time or Time of the Doctor in a heartbeat - but I've not seen The Doctor Falls to compare.
(I kind of gave up on the Capaldi era after year one, much as I liked the casting)
(I kind of gave up on the Capaldi era after year one, much as I liked the casting)
So here's a question: Should Night of the Doctor count? Or, for that matter, Day (for War?)
Edit: And if we're going deep on this, didn't Colin get a BF one that led into Time and the Rani and was a much better sendoff?
Edit2: Actually, and if you're being ultra pedantic, you can take into account Twice Upon A Time and still count World Enough/Doctor Falls as a regeneration story...
Because it's a Master regeneration story
OP
OP
Ooh, now you've done it!
Colin did have a Big Finish regeneration, but he had one in the books, too, so we can add that. If we're talking extracurricular regenerations, we've got to have Interference, and let's have that one DWM comic strip where the Doctor regenerates into Nick Briggs.
Let's throw Destiny of the Daleks onto the pile for Romana, The Keeper of Traken and Utopia for the Master, The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and Let's Kill Hitler for River, and Hell Bent for the General.
Am I missing any?
Colin did have a Big Finish regeneration, but he had one in the books, too, so we can add that. If we're talking extracurricular regenerations, we've got to have Interference, and let's have that one DWM comic strip where the Doctor regenerates into Nick Briggs.
Let's throw Destiny of the Daleks onto the pile for Romana, The Keeper of Traken and Utopia for the Master, The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and Let's Kill Hitler for River, and Hell Bent for the General.
Am I missing any?
Let's not get into expanded universe regenerations for characters other than the Doctor- we'll be here for the rest of our lives.
I've not heard of this Directors Cut before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9XQ0os7cw&feature=youtu.be
is it just the omnibus edition?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9XQ0os7cw&feature=youtu.be
is it just the omnibus edition?