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Why is it still acceptable to refer to woman as b****** in hip hop music?
- Thread starter Monorojo
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Really? We all know that? What, did a lot of posters on page 1 just missed the memo? Why do you think would I bring it up if not for the rampant normalization of the derogatory word?
Understandable
You stated a complete strawman though taking away any nuance of conversation, hell makin a damn conversation that was never happening
...Uhhh, not a good analogy. It's the equivalent of saying there's a different between blacks and niggas...
It sounds like you're presuming people's intent as "If we get rid of the bad words, then we kill prejudice!!" and that's not the case at all.
If you don't know what's so special about these words, then you probably aren't affected by them like others are and maybe you should be listening more to what others who are affected have to say instead of trying to assume what people might or might not be implying with these concerns.
Like, seriously, y'all, stop projecting your own paranoid shit into these conversations and read what people are actually saying
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Plenty of guys out there who want to be part of the discussion around a word that doesn't affect them. Similar to when white people chime in about wanting to say the N word. This is just way more casual and baked into society that it's hard for people to uproot their sexism and realize that it's demeaning.
English is a lovely language and can bend due to semantics and context. My better half loves it when I say she looks like a "hot bitch", this is not often and probably in the heat of a particular moment (if you get my drift /wink, /wink)
Personally, and actually addressing the thread title and OP, I find the use of the word to be crude and unnecessary. I don't listen to that type of 'Hip-Hop', (did the OP mean rap, I dunno?)
People are seriously getting wound up about nothing here. Yes, calling a female a bitch is wrong, I'm from a large family of mostly girls. If I did that I'd have no skin left.
However people are getting outraged in this thread over the word. It's just insane.
Why are we going on off a tangent about what people say to their signifficant others, it's called dirty talk for a reason. None cares how you make kinky conversation with women (I'll amend the noone with not many since more than one person has mentioned this..).
I can understand the backgrounds of those rappers and expressing the trials of inner city life. My favorite songs are the ones that bring attention to those issues as well as America's treatment of us as a whole. But I don't find that as an acceptable excuse for the misogyny found in the genre. Especially when it's currently as mainstream as it is.
So much this. Y'all can dance around it all you want, in the end you're assisting in normalizing derogatory and denigrating language towards women. Full stop. You are.
nigga no one cares bout ya dirty talk
Eh shit, here? Probably
I've asked a few kf my friends they thoughts on it and my girl, getting similar responses leading to me responses here
The opening isn't phrased to lead to any discussion that doesn't devolve to finger pointing. Like actually. Have you read it? What answer to the question would satisfy you when the base isn't deep? You don't need women to explain why rappers just toss around bitch like it is candy.
1. The music is vulgar and has never been concerned with the opinions of its taste
2. Society is misogynistic and bitch is used as a synynom for like 5 different things casually. Until the word reaches the social faux pas of homophobia or casualizing mental retardation it isn't going to disappear in hip hop.
When it does eventually get there it woll fade out.
What more is there to say on this topic? It's not deep. I've said this about 5 times in this topic and no one has addressed it. But it wasnt hard to get into the nigga discussion for some reason (sarcasm)
So you feel that because some women are using the word in a positive way, you as a man, should be able to as well. As long as you mean it in a positive way, you should be able to say to your bros that they are some bad fucking b*tches, as a term of endearment? Maybe even rap along in rap lyrics when the word comes up?
That really doesn't sound different from clueless white people, who argue that black people reclaiming the n-word as a term of endearment means that us lily-white folks should be able to say it to our white friends as well, as long as we mean it as a positive remark. Maybe even rap along the full verse?
Deepwater posted some good resources earlier in the thread. Did you end up reading them?
I had a black friend say I could use the N word when he's around.
(YES, YES, ONE IS A MORE HURTFUL WORD -- just getting that outta the way before you tangent)
At the end of the day, you should be socially aware of the negatives that come with the word from how society perceives women as "bitches" or how the default image of "bitch" is a woman. This distorts the image of women who may be stubborn, angry, or upset for any reason which impacts how (NOT NECESSARILY YOU) society interacts with women. Yeah, your friend can be OK with it but knowing the baggage the word has and the problem is creates for women, shouldn't you err on the side of decency and just try to drop it in general? Like, you're not actually making a huge, huge, huge difference in your life doing this.
they only listen to the women who already share their opinion of the word
Hey, sure, I'll engage your strawman. What reason do I have to attack black people?
Naw, I wasted enough time on you yesterday. Address the actual part of my text that the thread is on and I'll humour you.
Unironic use of "I have a black friend/black friend thinks this (insert whatever minority you group you can think of)" man.... guys what a week.
Say it out clearly instead of throwing around terms like dogwhistling or deflecting. Tell me what I'm trying to do here.
No it isn't since we have LionPride saying one thing is ok while another isn't (who has a history of saying that blacks can only use the word even in lyrics), hence why I opposed this double standard.
The only place I have ever seen such an issue to the point of comparing bitch to nigga and the f word is this place
Not in the real world
Not anywhere else
Not a single place
Again
Because men like you only care when it's people that they know , and that's a rarity. Usually men don't even care in that instance and they hand wave what women tell them regardless of relation.
You have to understand how downtrodden and alienated women feel by this kind of thing. They just give up because they're told "na bitch it doesn't offend you because I don't mean it that way". Get real
Lmao. Like i said, you aint getting humoured by me anymore today.
You havent even read the whole thread by your own admission but you think the thread and my point should be centered on one poster and not thousands of other posts framing the context?
I'm not humouring that either.
You do understand the internet is the real world... right?
So it is anywhere else.
You have seen it in a single place.
Again, it's an obvious attempt at deflection by bringing up the n-word. It was a disingenuous move that ended up essentially derailing the thread.
People always complain that black folks "always gotta bring up race" and use it against us yet here we have an actual example of bringing up race where it doesn't belong.
EDIT: Like, shit, let's stand and be counted. I do not think bitch is an acceptable thing to say at the end of the day. It is a word rooted in misogyny that is hurtful towards women. I say it at times and I accept that in the instances that I do, I'm wrong. I'm gonna work on that.
Now with that out of the way, what's special about hip hop and why are we bringing up the n-word?
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That doesn't make it acceptible
The question was "Why is it acceptable...." not "Why do people refer....."
Lol, you imply that I'm racist but have nothing to back it up. Great job.
I'll hit you up in a PM. I wanna give this a good response since I do agree with you.
But you engaged me in discussion while I was discussing with Lion, so stop trying to control how I engage in this thread and ignore me?
The thing is, saying it in this manner is an issue
and yes I am using the strong women in my life who attend and plan pro women marches, the black women who keep me grounded and never let me forget my privelage as a man on this earth, the women who matter to me, who do not hesitate to tell me if I or someone else is doing something that makes them uncomfrotable, do not care when I say bitch as long as I am not demeaning women.
When most of my friends since I was able to know what a friend was have been women, and as we all grow have developed into strong opinonated individuals who don't keep it a secret how they feel about something, tell me they don't see an issue with it, but random men try to tell me they do...nah man
What about the women who have an issue and voiced it here?
Do you just do some equation stuff and 4x + 3 = 2x - 3 for a conclusion?
I'm not comparing Nigga to bitch it's a pointless discusssion. I'm arguing against the use of bitch and words like it because many, many, many societies if not all think of femininity and being a women as bad things and I don't want to contribute to that and anyone that actually experiences this sort of stuff against can smell that shit (it's not hard to tell when a society doesn't like you). Of course not every woman you come across is going dislike other peoples use of the word bitch since it's so ingrained in common useage but that doesn't mean it does not contribute as plenty women here and other places on the internet would tell you.
I don't get it. That's what life is. You put yourself in different places to learn different things and trade the good between them. You think most of us live in places as progressive as this forum can be? We don't. Just yesterday i had to get up from a conversation because homophobic slurs like faggot were being thrown around. For a lot of us Reset is where we rest from all that shit.
Also you'd have seen it on gaf because i made that point back there too, years ago.
You're smarter than this. You're using people you know as a crutch to keep sexist and patriarchal language in place. What's worste is you know it and you don't care because women you know gave you the thumbs up to call them specifically a bitch. You are a well meaning part of the problem and your hypocrisy is a mountain here
question 1. why is this thread of all threads a place where non-black dudes are doing their damndest to get away with saying the n word? I think this page has the second person I've seen in as many pages who isn't black say that word.
question 2. why are none of these dudes getting in trouble for this shit
question 2. why are none of these dudes getting in trouble for this shit
No one has said you can't post how you want. I engaged you to say I dont think how you were framing the dude was fair.
In terms of the nigga point, I made that point before you started posting several times. No one would be discussing it if wasnt the first comparison that comes uo everytime we talk about hip hop. That's the point of my post. If Lion can dominate a discussion about his personal politics to the point people forget that literally isnt the point of the OP then it further proves my point.
I know its the internet and pointing out hypocrites always turns out this way so I shouldnt over blow that to be fair but this is exactly how these threads always turn out. You cant help but be frustratsd.
1) I don't know of any circles where you're barred from saying the word if you're discussing it. Maybe TV? Like, growing up the teachers and professors would say it when discussing the word itself.
2) PM a mod?
is the context that you're black?
no?
then don't say the word. that Louis CK bit you saw 10 years ago isn't true.
Honestly I don't know why the word is even allowed here in casual conversation by anyone. Ive posted about it before and I've asked moderators and I never get a reply. It makes viewing this board really difficult at work when the n word is in 70% of OT threads. Is there a post somewhere that addresses this? I'll stop complaining of its not against the rules
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