That's the next order of business. Because of the circumstances there hasn't been a good chance to feel that out, and I've been burned with these kinda situations before, so just wanted to get a second opinion before I go forward. Thanks!
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So ERA I would like to hear your opinion about my situation.
I have been dating chick B for a while now (a bit more than a month or so) and everything has been going great so far but today we talked about some things that left me feeling quite sad and doubtful about a relationship with her. I will break them down in 2 points:
1) She told me about her parents story, they had a quite long story of her father cheating on her mother and her mother cheating back as revenge. Her mother has mentioned her about the "thrill" of having a side lover, that can be fun etc. (Basically this seems like a really bad influence to her in my opinion)
Chick B told me that she would forgive an infidelity and that cheating doesn't seem like a big deal to her. She told me that she would understand if someone "gets bored" after a long relationship and cheats due to that boredom. Having said that she said that she would never cheat on her partner.
Personally I find that infidelity is one of the worst things (if not the worst besides violence) that can happen in a relationship, I would never forgive one and the thing is that I'm scared of Chick B's vision about cheating. I know how big of a influence parent's history can be in child behavior and I got very doubtful now because of her opinion about this. Is like their parents normalized cheating to her and that makes me doubtful to try going further with her because getting cheated on is one of my major fears and I don't like much her stance on cheating (again, even though she said she would never do it herself).
Should I be worried about this because of her parents history and her stance on it? Any experience related to this that you guys could share? I know she isn't her parents but I'm worried because I know that parents are a really big influence.
2) she has asked me now 2 times when will I ask her to be my girlfriend (in a joking matter ofc). I like her and I have been thinking on asking her in a near future but I still want to take it slowly and see how we do together first for a longer time.
So I have told her in response that she could also ask me to be her boyfriend at which her response was that she would never ask someone that (she has said that she is male chauvinist btw and that was pretty much her reason for not asking herself).
Now, I really don't mind asking her that myself but I felt a little sad about her response. I'm looking to be with someone that makes me feel really special (to which she has indeed done that so far tbh) and the fact that she wouldn't be able to ask me that makes me feel like I'm not special enough and I felt kind of sad and disappointed because of that.
I know is not really a big deal but what do you guys/gals think? I would like my possible girlfriend to be able to take a chance like that and I'm disappointed that she wouldn't be able to do it (at least by her words today), should I just ignore this, suck it up and keep going for a possible relationship with her?
She also said that (not in the immediate following conversation but close) for her it would be kind of easy to leave someone she has been dating for decent time if he doesn't ask her to be her girlfriend (quick enough I guess). That being his girlfriend would help in some way kind of "forcing her" to stay with him. She also said that she "can wait more time for me" (something like that, I forgot the exact phrase).
Her talking about leaving someone while in the dating process so easily also gave me bad vibes and makes me feel a bit of pressure of " keeping her happy/entertained or she will leave really quick".
Should I tone down my expectations about relationships? Maybe Im being too idealistic trying to find a perfect relationship in which my partner is willing to "run a marathon for me". Is that just a childish aspiration?
I would like to feel like I'm really special for someone and that they could do things they normally wouldn't do just for me, is this too much to seek in a partner? Are the points above something I should be worried about?
I would like to say again that before this last conversation I have felt like everything has been going great. She has told me several times that she really likes me a lot and that she has been feeling really happy because of me. I really like her and I have been feeling really happy as well but should I be worried about the above?
I'm a really emotional person and hearing things like the above points that makes me feel not special enough for someone kind of brings my down sadly :/
Anyway, thanks for reading the wall of text.
Have a nice day.
I have been dating chick B for a while now (a bit more than a month or so) and everything has been going great so far but today we talked about some things that left me feeling quite sad and doubtful about a relationship with her. I will break them down in 2 points:
1) She told me about her parents story, they had a quite long story of her father cheating on her mother and her mother cheating back as revenge. Her mother has mentioned her about the "thrill" of having a side lover, that can be fun etc. (Basically this seems like a really bad influence to her in my opinion)
Chick B told me that she would forgive an infidelity and that cheating doesn't seem like a big deal to her. She told me that she would understand if someone "gets bored" after a long relationship and cheats due to that boredom. Having said that she said that she would never cheat on her partner.
Personally I find that infidelity is one of the worst things (if not the worst besides violence) that can happen in a relationship, I would never forgive one and the thing is that I'm scared of Chick B's vision about cheating. I know how big of a influence parent's history can be in child behavior and I got very doubtful now because of her opinion about this. Is like their parents normalized cheating to her and that makes me doubtful to try going further with her because getting cheated on is one of my major fears and I don't like much her stance on cheating (again, even though she said she would never do it herself).
Should I be worried about this because of her parents history and her stance on it? Any experience related to this that you guys could share? I know she isn't her parents but I'm worried because I know that parents are a really big influence.
2) she has asked me now 2 times when will I ask her to be my girlfriend (in a joking matter ofc). I like her and I have been thinking on asking her in a near future but I still want to take it slowly and see how we do together first for a longer time.
So I have told her in response that she could also ask me to be her boyfriend at which her response was that she would never ask someone that (she has said that she is male chauvinist btw and that was pretty much her reason for not asking herself).
Now, I really don't mind asking her that myself but I felt a little sad about her response. I'm looking to be with someone that makes me feel really special (to which she has indeed done that so far tbh) and the fact that she wouldn't be able to ask me that makes me feel like I'm not special enough and I felt kind of sad and disappointed because of that.
I know is not really a big deal but what do you guys/gals think? I would like my possible girlfriend to be able to take a chance like that and I'm disappointed that she wouldn't be able to do it (at least by her words today), should I just ignore this, suck it up and keep going for a possible relationship with her?
She also said that (not in the immediate following conversation but close) for her it would be kind of easy to leave someone she has been dating for decent time if he doesn't ask her to be her girlfriend (quick enough I guess). That being his girlfriend would help in some way kind of "forcing her" to stay with him. She also said that she "can wait more time for me" (something like that, I forgot the exact phrase).
Her talking about leaving someone while in the dating process so easily also gave me bad vibes and makes me feel a bit of pressure of " keeping her happy/entertained or she will leave really quick".
Should I tone down my expectations about relationships? Maybe Im being too idealistic trying to find a perfect relationship in which my partner is willing to "run a marathon for me". Is that just a childish aspiration?
I would like to feel like I'm really special for someone and that they could do things they normally wouldn't do just for me, is this too much to seek in a partner? Are the points above something I should be worried about?
I would like to say again that before this last conversation I have felt like everything has been going great. She has told me several times that she really likes me a lot and that she has been feeling really happy because of me. I really like her and I have been feeling really happy as well but should I be worried about the above?
I'm a really emotional person and hearing things like the above points that makes me feel not special enough for someone kind of brings my down sadly :/
Anyway, thanks for reading the wall of text.
Have a nice day.
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I was going with the whole Daddy/Mommy-- Little/Brat etc kink which is an entire subset and thanks to the weird intersection of ageplay into that kink it's evolved into something else. But I was trying to keep kinks/fetishes out of this topic!
massoluk Out of curiosity, how well do you know this person to have a trip together? There's a reason why a lot of sitcoms show stories of trips together for the early part of a relationship as a disaster. Two people tied together in an unfamiliar situation before they've really known each other is honestly a recipe for disaster because you do not have an escape button. If you've known her for a while then carry on.
Shal You need to stop worrying about the cheating thing. First of all, imagine being the child stuck in between cheating parents who both love you but have been shit to each other and honestly that story is pretty shit. If your parents have been shit to each other and have cheated on each other but have been good to you growing up and you know they love you your entire viewpoint is completely different. Infidelities happen more often than not in relationships and people move on. Often partners forgive the cheating partner too and her stance on it is actually mature. You're just insecure because of your fear of being cheated on which is valid but I also take it that you're either younger or haven't experienced a lot? Please correct me if I am wrong. Cheating isn't the end of the world and is a symptom of issues in the relationship which often the infidelity ends up fixing. I've seen marriages come stronger after this. Her mother is justifying her actions and she doesn't hate her mother. She isn't influenced by it, it's just a thing. However, the question arises is that how soon did she share this with you? Since you've dated for over a month she just doesn't want you to dislike her parents when you find out and eventually you will.
Mate, you can't idealise a perfect relationship and I have to ask what do you mean run a marathon for you? Would you run a marathon for her? Relationships are about compromise about meeting in the middle. She's told you that she likes you and honestly her asking you to ask her to be your girlfriend is her asking you to be her boyfriend. She just wants you to make it something and that's it. Do you need to have her officially ask you out? I mean that bit is just formality at this point. So yeah you can ask her out. It seems like there's some cultural things where you are as well. While women do ask guys out and ask them to be their boyfriend it's not as common and while I agree it should be more common she's pretty much told you that she likes you and wants a relationship out of it and all you have to do is ask? It's like she's pretty much agreed to it before some sort of formal sign-off. I'd chock it as playful banter and just ask her because what's so difficult there now you already know her answer in a way. sometimes people can't shake their cultural and upbringing biases and even though they want to they just can't. I mean if everything until now has been good you can just as i've said many times in this paragraph - ask her. And the other part of her leaving is pretty much her way of saying she's not going to waste time for someone who's not that into her. I mean let's think about this, life is short. Would you spend time with someone and get close to them and see that they've no intention of being serious with you? You could stick around in those situations but it's a lack of self-respect. However you can tell her things like yeah there's a trial period of going out where I need to be comfortable and it's usually more than a month but something like 2 months and you'll tell her when the time is right which sets a time expectation (but only do so if you can handle the pressure and also you know what you're doing).
I think you are being idealistic in some sense but then again if that's what you want then what's you've got to go for. However relationships are about meeting in the middle, are about compromises and adjustment. Keep your core values, ideals, and everything key but everything else you will have to adjust. Just a little bit. From all it sounds is that she likes you and wants to have something serious with you but you just need to do the formal thing of asking her out and that's it. I mean she's pretty much said everything to that extent and just wants you to make that leap. that's about it really.
Shal You need to stop worrying about the cheating thing. First of all, imagine being the child stuck in between cheating parents who both love you but have been shit to each other and honestly that story is pretty shit. If your parents have been shit to each other and have cheated on each other but have been good to you growing up and you know they love you your entire viewpoint is completely different. Infidelities happen more often than not in relationships and people move on. Often partners forgive the cheating partner too and her stance on it is actually mature. You're just insecure because of your fear of being cheated on which is valid but I also take it that you're either younger or haven't experienced a lot? Please correct me if I am wrong. Cheating isn't the end of the world and is a symptom of issues in the relationship which often the infidelity ends up fixing. I've seen marriages come stronger after this. Her mother is justifying her actions and she doesn't hate her mother. She isn't influenced by it, it's just a thing. However, the question arises is that how soon did she share this with you? Since you've dated for over a month she just doesn't want you to dislike her parents when you find out and eventually you will.
Mate, you can't idealise a perfect relationship and I have to ask what do you mean run a marathon for you? Would you run a marathon for her? Relationships are about compromise about meeting in the middle. She's told you that she likes you and honestly her asking you to ask her to be your girlfriend is her asking you to be her boyfriend. She just wants you to make it something and that's it. Do you need to have her officially ask you out? I mean that bit is just formality at this point. So yeah you can ask her out. It seems like there's some cultural things where you are as well. While women do ask guys out and ask them to be their boyfriend it's not as common and while I agree it should be more common she's pretty much told you that she likes you and wants a relationship out of it and all you have to do is ask? It's like she's pretty much agreed to it before some sort of formal sign-off. I'd chock it as playful banter and just ask her because what's so difficult there now you already know her answer in a way. sometimes people can't shake their cultural and upbringing biases and even though they want to they just can't. I mean if everything until now has been good you can just as i've said many times in this paragraph - ask her. And the other part of her leaving is pretty much her way of saying she's not going to waste time for someone who's not that into her. I mean let's think about this, life is short. Would you spend time with someone and get close to them and see that they've no intention of being serious with you? You could stick around in those situations but it's a lack of self-respect. However you can tell her things like yeah there's a trial period of going out where I need to be comfortable and it's usually more than a month but something like 2 months and you'll tell her when the time is right which sets a time expectation (but only do so if you can handle the pressure and also you know what you're doing).
I think you are being idealistic in some sense but then again if that's what you want then what's you've got to go for. However relationships are about meeting in the middle, are about compromises and adjustment. Keep your core values, ideals, and everything key but everything else you will have to adjust. Just a little bit. From all it sounds is that she likes you and wants to have something serious with you but you just need to do the formal thing of asking her out and that's it. I mean she's pretty much said everything to that extent and just wants you to make that leap. that's about it really.
Thank you for your response.
Regarding the cheating thing you bring a point that makes me realize I really was lacking empathy when we talked about it. Her parents pasts doings is something that she had to accept during her upbringing and her vision on it is coherent with that acceptance.
Yes I am inexperienced regarding relationships (25 btw) and my vision on cheating might be immature.
Thing is, I have experienced the bad effects of infidelity through my parents themselves, in which infidelity made their relationship to break, which caused father abandonment during most of my upbringing that clearly left emotional scars on me and that's kind of why I have my black and white stance on cheating. But as you said yourself (and something I'm coming to realize now) infidelity is a symtomp and not really the cause.
And regarding to what does it mean to run a marathon to me, is being able to go out of your structured behavior (doing something out of the ordinary) for someone else which implies that you are special to them.
Regarding asking out about the boyfriend/girlfriend stuff I guess you are right, it's almost like she asked it herself and I shouldn't hang on what she said about not being able to do it herself.
And indeed relationships should be about meeting in the middle and all that. I guess my insecurity makes me want to push that boundary further to myself and I have to be careful of doing that and stop with that habit.
Thanks for the insight, I'm on my way to uni now and can't detail my response much more but thanks it really helps to see outside point of view :)
Seeing a girl tonight. Haven't actually met her yet but been talking to her for days now on whatsapp. My friend talked to her about me and she was the one that actually approached me lol (never happened before to me to be honest). Let's see how it goes.
Shal
No worries. Happy to help!
Don't be too hard on yourself w.r.t the empathy thing, you were in shock and responded while in that state, however it's probably not easy for her either and given that she shared that with you she does really like you.
I've experienced infidelity through my parents quite similar to you (parents are still together but being caught in their civil war wasn't fun plus my dad not being around didn't help either) and have had someone cheat on me when I was still a teen. Sure it can cause insecurities and anxiety and it's a shit situation in both cases but we grow, we mature, and we understand things a bit better. Eventually we see how things are and know how things vary from case to case. Infidelity is always a symptom of something unless well you're a teenager and you suck at breaking up with someone and decide to break it off via cheating (some adults do that too *Shakes head*) that isn't a symptom but just lack of a backbone.
Well you can't really expect someone to run a mile for you that way unless you're running a mile for them too. They're not going to initiate unless you do. If you want something, you'll have to set the example and see if they follow. If they do, great; if they don't well you need to reassess your priorities. But often these things require communication too.
And yes she has asked you out indirectly; you just need to ask her out. I mean she's literally asking you to ask her out. Don't read into it as anything more than that :). Don't push people like that, you'll tend to push them away and it's not healthy for you. That's something to work on, don't create unrealistic expectations that people will fail on - because believe me they will fail and sometimes it'll bite you back in terrible ways.
Anyway I hope it works out and I think in this case it honestly should.
No worries. Happy to help!
Don't be too hard on yourself w.r.t the empathy thing, you were in shock and responded while in that state, however it's probably not easy for her either and given that she shared that with you she does really like you.
I've experienced infidelity through my parents quite similar to you (parents are still together but being caught in their civil war wasn't fun plus my dad not being around didn't help either) and have had someone cheat on me when I was still a teen. Sure it can cause insecurities and anxiety and it's a shit situation in both cases but we grow, we mature, and we understand things a bit better. Eventually we see how things are and know how things vary from case to case. Infidelity is always a symptom of something unless well you're a teenager and you suck at breaking up with someone and decide to break it off via cheating (some adults do that too *Shakes head*) that isn't a symptom but just lack of a backbone.
Well you can't really expect someone to run a mile for you that way unless you're running a mile for them too. They're not going to initiate unless you do. If you want something, you'll have to set the example and see if they follow. If they do, great; if they don't well you need to reassess your priorities. But often these things require communication too.
And yes she has asked you out indirectly; you just need to ask her out. I mean she's literally asking you to ask her out. Don't read into it as anything more than that :). Don't push people like that, you'll tend to push them away and it's not healthy for you. That's something to work on, don't create unrealistic expectations that people will fail on - because believe me they will fail and sometimes it'll bite you back in terrible ways.
Anyway I hope it works out and I think in this case it honestly should.
Personally I think that it's way too early to be this conflicted about someone. To me, you should feel confident and secure about initiating an exclusive relationship with someone, not doing it because you feel pressure from the other person.
Honestly what she says she would do and her viewpoints seem to clash. Like, she says she would have no issue leaving you if you don't ask to be her boyfriend soon enough but she also says she will wait for you. And then she says she doesn't think cheating is a big deal and she understands why people would do it but she would never do it.
I think what she said about cheating is pretty ridiculous to be honest. Being bored is not a reason to cheat. It's definitely not unreasonable or immature for you to see cheating as a horrible thing and if she doesn't think it's a bad thing that's something to consider. It doesn't mean that she would definitely cheat on you but she's clearly more open to doing it because she sees it as not being a big deal. Throws up some red flags to me.
From what you said, it seems like she's very into gender roles and she wants you to lead. If you want it to be more of an equal partners thing, I feel like there are plenty of people out there who want that too. My advice would be to keep doing what you feel is right for you. Don't let her pressure you into being her boyfriend, take your time to consider things. But I would say if you're insecure about a relationship with her, do NOT start one because you're already on a unsure foundation.
I really disagree with the idea that cheating is something that can fix issues of a relationship. There are cases where it may seem like it did but it's mainly just because the issues were made apparent to both parties. It's ultimately the people having open communication with each other about the issues that fixes it which is something you can do without having the need to cheat first. Cheating is the polar opposite of open communication.
And I think that just because infidelity is something you can move on from doesn't mean it's something you would want to happen to you or tolerate happening to you. I don't think it's only young people or those with little experience who dislike being cheated on. I don't think it's insecure to be strictly against infidelity either. I don't think Shal would need to adjust his views of cheating to hers. I think it's ok that they have completely different views on it and they have to decide if they're ok with it. Obviously Shal's view puts him at a disadvantage there so I think he should consider that and if he's ok with it.
SuperiorTrashTalk
I think the thing is people cheat, this girl isn't going to cheat but given the context they need to accept that their parents cheated and still love them. Don't bring a personal equation here. When your parents cheat and they still love you; you can sit and rage over it all you want or you can come to terms that they cheated. It was shitty and you can understand how and why people cheat. It doesn't mean you would cheat yourself but you can understand how it happens and why it happens. Like you can understand how if someone punched you, you can understand why it can escalate into physical violence or you can notify authorities or you can just walk away. One's reaction isn't an assessment of how one feels about personally as opposed to how one reacts to others doing it.
Well I'm not saying cheating fixes the issues of a relationship. I never said that. I'm saying infidelities happen and those who choose to realise there are problems within the relationship and work on it can grow from it and have a stronger relationship which comes from forgiving. If cheating fixed relationships then everyone should cheat. I'm not advocating cheating or infidelity. I'm simply saying people who've experienced infidelity and worked on their relationship can improve it.
And you can't live with the insecurity that your partner is going to cheat on you; if you do it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It shows lack of trust, respect, and faith in your partner. Open communication is easy to say. I say this as a proponent of open communication and someone who is quite communicative (also part of my job). People do not communicate openly and people carry emotional wounds in relationships. Some people communicate and express well and some don't. I'm not going to sit here on a high horse and judge everyone who's experienced infidelity and then made their relationships work. But ultimately relationships aren't a binary thing and there are multiple layers to it. If an act of infidelity can ruin a relationship or if you relationship directly led to that then it probably was on tenterhooks anyway. Now I'm against those who just cheat for the thrill of it because those people genuinely don't care about their partners and are out to cause harm. However in this particular case, this girl's views come from a place of hurt over what her parents did to one another and also not wanting her parents to be judged for their actions. She would probably be judging them herself, many do but you don't want others outside your family to judge them until they get to know them. Most people don't anyway - most people don't hate their parents even if they dislike them.
I think the thing is people cheat, this girl isn't going to cheat but given the context they need to accept that their parents cheated and still love them. Don't bring a personal equation here. When your parents cheat and they still love you; you can sit and rage over it all you want or you can come to terms that they cheated. It was shitty and you can understand how and why people cheat. It doesn't mean you would cheat yourself but you can understand how it happens and why it happens. Like you can understand how if someone punched you, you can understand why it can escalate into physical violence or you can notify authorities or you can just walk away. One's reaction isn't an assessment of how one feels about personally as opposed to how one reacts to others doing it.
Well I'm not saying cheating fixes the issues of a relationship. I never said that. I'm saying infidelities happen and those who choose to realise there are problems within the relationship and work on it can grow from it and have a stronger relationship which comes from forgiving. If cheating fixed relationships then everyone should cheat. I'm not advocating cheating or infidelity. I'm simply saying people who've experienced infidelity and worked on their relationship can improve it.
And you can't live with the insecurity that your partner is going to cheat on you; if you do it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It shows lack of trust, respect, and faith in your partner. Open communication is easy to say. I say this as a proponent of open communication and someone who is quite communicative (also part of my job). People do not communicate openly and people carry emotional wounds in relationships. Some people communicate and express well and some don't. I'm not going to sit here on a high horse and judge everyone who's experienced infidelity and then made their relationships work. But ultimately relationships aren't a binary thing and there are multiple layers to it. If an act of infidelity can ruin a relationship or if you relationship directly led to that then it probably was on tenterhooks anyway. Now I'm against those who just cheat for the thrill of it because those people genuinely don't care about their partners and are out to cause harm. However in this particular case, this girl's views come from a place of hurt over what her parents did to one another and also not wanting her parents to be judged for their actions. She would probably be judging them herself, many do but you don't want others outside your family to judge them until they get to know them. Most people don't anyway - most people don't hate their parents even if they dislike them.
Yeah don't misunderstand me, I won't ask her out out of pressure. I like her and have been feeling like asking her to make it official already but not due to this pressure so is fine in that sense, I do want to take a bit more of time though.
Regarding her stance on cheating, yes is a bit concerning as you said but there's also the fact Azraes brought up that she growed in that environment and so it kind of makes sense to not view it as something that destroying.
The fact that she mentioned boredom as a possible reason for cheating worries me though, that scares me a bit.
And yeah I don't plan to change my view of infidelity and values due to this, but I can understand now where she comes from (part of it at least).
I'm looking the "boredom as excuse" part as a red flag though. Also at some point she agreeded kinda with what her mom said regarding that "being in that thrill of having a side lover could be fun, keeping it a secret without others finding out etc", that worries me as well.
I'm in uni right now so can't expand much, later in the afternoon I will have more time.
Cheating not being a big deal or being justified by boredom is an instant dealbreaker. I don't care how much they try to embellish the view, it's just justification for future cheating. I don't even care if they would or would not cheat on me specifically in the future, I'm already gone, goodbye!
I agree with this. I wouldn't take the risk.
Side note; stay away from r/adultery. People are evil and you'll be skeptical of everyone.
Her views on cheating should put you on guard. I'm not telling you that she will cheat. Nobody knows that, but you can only gain inference from what she said and if someone said that shit to me I would question if when push came to shove they wouldnt defualt to those views. It's not really about her parents. She is her own person, she can choose to view this differently. It is what she directly said that makes me side eye. You dont say "I dont think cheating is a big deal and I get being bored and blah blah blah . . . But I would never cheat" and then expect that you ainy gonna get some "yo what".
Honestly you should just get the fuck over this particular point. Wanting her to want this is dumb. If she aint ever gonna ask and shit slips away because she wont take authority that is really not your problem. Worry about how you will approach this.
This is like half hint half I'm not invested. It's dumb bit it also really isn't on you. If you aint ready to a commit you arent. Proceed as normal.
It is but its also honest. Do it when you feel its right but also you cant fuck around in the dating stage forever. Its been 1 month. You dont have to commit to shit right now cause imo it is early but at some point its valid for people to be like "this is going nowhere peace"
If after like 3 months if I wanted to be official and a girl was non committal I would just be like "I'm out, shit.or get off the pot"
Some of what you posted is idealistic. Some of it is honestly valid.
You'll have to lose the special snowflake mentality. It's fine ro want to be wanted but being emotional is not a valid reason for goong 0 to 100 on your worth due to a few comments. The cheating stuff, that makes me side eye personally. Maybe others feel differently. The rest? Some of it is dumb imo but its difference of opinion stuff. Doesnt need to be a deal breaker.
I wanna highlight this point made is the equivalent of saying "I grew up in the hood so seeing people get killed is not something I find as a big deal". Just because you are exposed to something at a young age it doesn't mean you have to normalize it as okay. That isn't a "makes sense" type of thing.
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Thanks, will do. I think I'm good with social talk so I just need build back up my social circle.
I'm glad I bought Modern Romance from Ansari, that shit is hilarious.
The "cheating out of boredom" and the "having a side lover could be fun" parts is what I focused on too. It was just that general vibe of her not seeming to think it was a big deal how it would affect someone, i.e. you in a hypothetical scenario, that came across as a red flag. Personally, I would hope that my SO, if presented with an opportunity to cheat would be strictly against it instead of feeling like they could do it in that moment and just work out the issues with me later which seems to be what she's saying to you. She says she wouldn't cheat but her views go completely against that claim. So I would seriously consider if you could really trust her to go against her views when it comes down to it. Not just her possible actions (because it doesn't mean she will cheat 100%) but also if you can feel secure in a relationship with her or if you would be starting off a fresh relationship already having doubts. You absolutely don't want doubts going in.
I feel like you loving your parents and accepting that they cheated are two separate things. You can love your parents and still be wholly disapproving of a thing that they did wrong. You can even forgive them for it and still consider it a big deal to cheat on someone. My issue is at least the way that she said it, it sounded like to me that she doesn't really seem to think cheating is really all that bad. Like she doesn't think it's good but she sees it more as a minor whoops that's easily forgiven as if you said something hurtful while in a bad mood. Clearly if she had the opportunity to cheat, she would not be all that against the idea.
I can't say I really understand your punching analogy. If someone I knew and trusted tried to physically assault me just because they were mad or something, that's not something I could just brush off. There are so many other avenues you could take to address your issue other than violence and I don't really want to be friends with someone who would choose to hurt me over any other path as soon as something doesn't go their way. I can come to terms with the fact that its something that happened to me but I don't need to accept them in my life. It's the same with cheating for me.
And sorry if I misread you but you did say that "Cheating isn't the end of the world and is a symptom of issues in the relationship which often the infidelity ends up fixing." So that's how I took it. But I get what you're saying now. My question is still, why do you need to cheat first in order to realize that there are issues with the relationship and that you should work them out? I have no interest in dating someone who would take that path and if they're going to give me signs that they would do that before we're exclusive, I would reconsider a relationship with them.
I don't think open communication is super easy but I find it a lot easier than betraying someone's trust by cheating on them. I'm aware that people hold back feelings but if you're reaching a breaking point why is cheating the first thing you jump to? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your partner to talk to you first about a problem before cheating on you. You say that if cheating can ruin a relationship or if the problems of the relationship lead to cheating that the relationship was on tenterhooks. The way you phrase it sounds like it's more on the person who was cheated on because they didn't maintain a good enough relationship to prevent infidelity from happening to them. But really, the relationship is ruined because the cheater destroyed the trust in it even if the other issues would have lead to the relationship ending normally. I think it's way better to be like "hey there are issues and I don't think we can work them out" and break up/divorce someone than to cheat on them and then be like "Oh... maybe NOW we should talk about our problems, have we tried that?"
And I'm not judging couples who have experienced infidelity and decided to work it out. That is a choice of every individual to decide if cheating is something they would tolerate or not. If you can work past infidelity and move on stronger with your partner then more power to you. But I don't think everyone has to be like that. You can trust and love your partner 100% and also decide to leave if they cheat on you. Which is why with Shal here, who is strictly against cheating and this potential girlfriend who isn't for cheating but seems to be ok with justifying it, it's a good idea for Shal to really consider if he wants to risk that.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, as I said I can't expand myself much at the moment but few things:
Yes I guess I should drop the special snowflake mentality and stop idealizing some things and finding implications in every phrase said to me. This is kind of a long habit of mine so this will be hard but in the end it just ends up making me feel bad about random stuff and kind of makes me sabotage myself so is not a good habit to have.
Regarding the cheating stuff I will be on guard. I actually want to confirm if she really does think boredom is a understandable excuse for cheating (when we talked I didn't ask her much about it). I don't want to talk much about it with her because I don't want it to be a self fulfilling prophesy but I will ask her to expand a bit on that boredom aspect and maybe ask her if she really does view having a side lover as something that could be exciting and fun (this would be a red flag to me but I need to give it more thought).
After that hopefully we stop with that subject, I don't want to entertain these ideas with her.
Edit: I actually don't know if talking about infidelity more in depth (besides the 2 questions I will ask her) with her is a good move or not, would I be shooting myself in the foot doing that? (Like maybe it could be seen as entertaining the idea of doing it), what do you guys/gals think about talking about this in depth with your SO?
Edit2: after giving it more thought, if her response to my question regarding boredom is that boredom is an understandable excuse for cheating then I might stop considering going for something serious with her (I dislike the fact that I'm viewing this as a test for her btw). I will obviously encourage the idea of communicating your issues first but I will see what her response is to that.
In my opinion, if there are problems in a relationship (boredom for example) then first you should communicate that to your partner and look for ways to solve this together. If after that (and possible iterations) things don't change then you should break up and then do whatever you like, but at no point cheating is justificable for me unless you are in a arranged marriage without choice or something extreme like that.
If she doesn't promote the idea of communicating issues to your partner first then I might heavily stop considering her for something serious because it would be a huge red flag to me.
To be honest I'm already feeling kind a bit of doubtful because of all of this. This sucks though because I really like her, the way she is (besides this thoughts), what she has done for me so far, the way she acts etc. This already has been a big emotional investment for me (besides time), I wouldn't like it if this goes to the trash bin because of her opinion but at the same time I don't plan to force myself to commit to someone I'm not comfortable with.
Also I have done something that is heavily adviced against here and is that I have only been dating her and no one else lol. For me actually is hard to date more than one person, I feel like I would have trouble being genuine with them, that's just me though. But well if this goes to the trash then I will have to start over even though is something that I have been starting to dread more and more.
Edit3: she's 21 btw (her bday was like a month and a half ago)
Yes I guess I should drop the special snowflake mentality and stop idealizing some things and finding implications in every phrase said to me. This is kind of a long habit of mine so this will be hard but in the end it just ends up making me feel bad about random stuff and kind of makes me sabotage myself so is not a good habit to have.
Regarding the cheating stuff I will be on guard. I actually want to confirm if she really does think boredom is a understandable excuse for cheating (when we talked I didn't ask her much about it). I don't want to talk much about it with her because I don't want it to be a self fulfilling prophesy but I will ask her to expand a bit on that boredom aspect and maybe ask her if she really does view having a side lover as something that could be exciting and fun (this would be a red flag to me but I need to give it more thought).
After that hopefully we stop with that subject, I don't want to entertain these ideas with her.
Edit: I actually don't know if talking about infidelity more in depth (besides the 2 questions I will ask her) with her is a good move or not, would I be shooting myself in the foot doing that? (Like maybe it could be seen as entertaining the idea of doing it), what do you guys/gals think about talking about this in depth with your SO?
Edit2: after giving it more thought, if her response to my question regarding boredom is that boredom is an understandable excuse for cheating then I might stop considering going for something serious with her (I dislike the fact that I'm viewing this as a test for her btw). I will obviously encourage the idea of communicating your issues first but I will see what her response is to that.
In my opinion, if there are problems in a relationship (boredom for example) then first you should communicate that to your partner and look for ways to solve this together. If after that (and possible iterations) things don't change then you should break up and then do whatever you like, but at no point cheating is justificable for me unless you are in a arranged marriage without choice or something extreme like that.
If she doesn't promote the idea of communicating issues to your partner first then I might heavily stop considering her for something serious because it would be a huge red flag to me.
To be honest I'm already feeling kind a bit of doubtful because of all of this. This sucks though because I really like her, the way she is (besides this thoughts), what she has done for me so far, the way she acts etc. This already has been a big emotional investment for me (besides time), I wouldn't like it if this goes to the trash bin because of her opinion but at the same time I don't plan to force myself to commit to someone I'm not comfortable with.
Also I have done something that is heavily adviced against here and is that I have only been dating her and no one else lol. For me actually is hard to date more than one person, I feel like I would have trouble being genuine with them, that's just me though. But well if this goes to the trash then I will have to start over even though is something that I have been starting to dread more and more.
Edit3: she's 21 btw (her bday was like a month and a half ago)
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SuperiorTrashTalk
It doesn't seem like this person is that old. The girl in question I mean. I'm trying to take the perspective of someone who's had parents do pretty shitty things. Remember the father cheated on the mother and the mother cheated in retaliation. Yet the parents probably love the child. It's a pretty dysfunctional family. I've come across many people like this. First of all, they don't like talking about it. Secondly, they try to minimise it because they don't want to have to explain to someone else how their parents are. I mean that situation is stressful for most children and they don't tend to grow out of it and then there's the whole co-dependence factor that comes into play because one or both parents exhibit narcisstic tendencies. However that's a stretch. Regardless the environment was toxic and people develop ways of coping to normalise it. I don't think they'll be able to deal with it until years later. Some develop insecurities, some outright hate their parents or cut contact, some go back and forth, it varies. But the thing is this has to have an effect. Most of Shal's post indicates that there's light-hearted banter and it's quite possible there's pain/discomfort etc behind that. And as for parents I said someting clearly you won't hate them even if you dislike them - that's pretty much the same thing. You love them but you dislike their actions. When that's the case kids get defensive of their parents actions. Do they follow the same path? Well if they've had time to reflect and understand they probably do. If they distance themselves and go down the path of anger they tend to commit the same mistakes more often than not. It's a fact of acceptance that yeah they did it, it's a bit shit but i get it that often helps the person to not go down that path. Usually these people don't tend to cheat. Usually but they tend to find partners who do, coincidentally enough. There's an entire mindset there that you could write volumes about. I think you're thinking of it that she's being flippant because she's open to it happening and I'm thinking she's flippant because if someone cheats on her she'll accept it and still be with the person. Probably because I just get the vibe that the whole jokey way of saying these things suggests limited self-worth or a person who's harder on themselves. One thing that I can say clearly is that the way you love someone and the way you accept love are completely different things. The way this person describes it and mind you this is from limited information makes it sound like they won't cheat but they will forgive someone who cheated on them. Having seen plenty of these kinds of people around it's often the ones with such issues who talk about it. The ones who would likely cheat don't really talk about it and don't advertise their views on cheating and often are vehemently opposed to it.
I could fuel to other fires here in that it's often said that kids of parents who cheat tend to be likely to cheat some sort of genetic disposition to it and this doesn't matter if they knew it or not. However those who have experienced it well there's not much data on what their predisposition is.
The thing is, we don't know who's going to cheat and who isn't. You're not likely to know. However, from what I have observed the people who are most likely to cheat never talk about it. The people who on the other hand have low self-esteem and would forgive the people who cheated on them, well they usually say the sorts of things she does. That's the warning bell I'd put in. However that's a different topic and since there's not enough information I didn't want to jump to that conclusion. But oddly enough anecdotally and according to some therapists I've met this is quite common.
If a person is going to cheat they wouldn't advertise that they can understand people who cheat because people would react pretty much like you guys are. On the other hand, people with low self-esteem would say it. Unless of course they lack that much self-awareness.
Having come across people who cheat (and I'm going to say that I'm not for adultery or cheating and I am for open communication and as an aside if people want to be poly they totally should provided they communicate these things with one another and not go behind each other's backs) communication isn't a simple thing. Neglect happens, lack of communication happens, people try to talk, people aren't available, people aren't emotionally available and the biggest issue with every relationship - taking the other person for granted happens. Not everyone is strong enough to voice their opinion or be head and some relationships are going to enter problem spots from the get go because people entered it without understanding the other person and their needs well enough. Of course it's the fault of both the person who cheated and the person who got cheated on. A relationship isn't a one-sided affair. We'll get into the territory who's more wrong and who's more right. There are cases where cheating is absolutely the fault of the person who cheated on the partner and there are cases where it's grey and there are cases where it's the fault of the person they cheated on. The last case often happens in case of relationships with people who are emotionally unavailable, been abused and other things and for whatever reason the person doesn't leave the relationship. I'm trying to bring about all possible cases here. Once again there are multiple reasons as to why it happens and the fault can lie anywhere but in the larger picture the fault would lie with both of them but when you go to a granular level one person probably would be more at fault than the other. Having seen way too many good, bad, middle and all kinds of relationships I can't paint a black or white picture for something I've quite literally seen as being multi-shaded. Do I approve of it? Of course not. Do I condemn it? Nope. I'd like to know what the causes were for each case and take them step by step rather than make a sweeping generalisation of someone else or their relationship - because at the end of the day it isn't mine and I'm pretty good at figuring out the people who are likely to cheat on me and the people who won't. I've also had acquaintances in the past who cheated on people whose actions I found reprehensible because they figured it was a good way to break up or those who did it to get out of an abusive relationship. I haven't met anyone who cheated just because they were bored or sociopathic but I've come across tales.
It doesn't seem like this person is that old. The girl in question I mean. I'm trying to take the perspective of someone who's had parents do pretty shitty things. Remember the father cheated on the mother and the mother cheated in retaliation. Yet the parents probably love the child. It's a pretty dysfunctional family. I've come across many people like this. First of all, they don't like talking about it. Secondly, they try to minimise it because they don't want to have to explain to someone else how their parents are. I mean that situation is stressful for most children and they don't tend to grow out of it and then there's the whole co-dependence factor that comes into play because one or both parents exhibit narcisstic tendencies. However that's a stretch. Regardless the environment was toxic and people develop ways of coping to normalise it. I don't think they'll be able to deal with it until years later. Some develop insecurities, some outright hate their parents or cut contact, some go back and forth, it varies. But the thing is this has to have an effect. Most of Shal's post indicates that there's light-hearted banter and it's quite possible there's pain/discomfort etc behind that. And as for parents I said someting clearly you won't hate them even if you dislike them - that's pretty much the same thing. You love them but you dislike their actions. When that's the case kids get defensive of their parents actions. Do they follow the same path? Well if they've had time to reflect and understand they probably do. If they distance themselves and go down the path of anger they tend to commit the same mistakes more often than not. It's a fact of acceptance that yeah they did it, it's a bit shit but i get it that often helps the person to not go down that path. Usually these people don't tend to cheat. Usually but they tend to find partners who do, coincidentally enough. There's an entire mindset there that you could write volumes about. I think you're thinking of it that she's being flippant because she's open to it happening and I'm thinking she's flippant because if someone cheats on her she'll accept it and still be with the person. Probably because I just get the vibe that the whole jokey way of saying these things suggests limited self-worth or a person who's harder on themselves. One thing that I can say clearly is that the way you love someone and the way you accept love are completely different things. The way this person describes it and mind you this is from limited information makes it sound like they won't cheat but they will forgive someone who cheated on them. Having seen plenty of these kinds of people around it's often the ones with such issues who talk about it. The ones who would likely cheat don't really talk about it and don't advertise their views on cheating and often are vehemently opposed to it.
I could fuel to other fires here in that it's often said that kids of parents who cheat tend to be likely to cheat some sort of genetic disposition to it and this doesn't matter if they knew it or not. However those who have experienced it well there's not much data on what their predisposition is.
The thing is, we don't know who's going to cheat and who isn't. You're not likely to know. However, from what I have observed the people who are most likely to cheat never talk about it. The people who on the other hand have low self-esteem and would forgive the people who cheated on them, well they usually say the sorts of things she does. That's the warning bell I'd put in. However that's a different topic and since there's not enough information I didn't want to jump to that conclusion. But oddly enough anecdotally and according to some therapists I've met this is quite common.
If a person is going to cheat they wouldn't advertise that they can understand people who cheat because people would react pretty much like you guys are. On the other hand, people with low self-esteem would say it. Unless of course they lack that much self-awareness.
Having come across people who cheat (and I'm going to say that I'm not for adultery or cheating and I am for open communication and as an aside if people want to be poly they totally should provided they communicate these things with one another and not go behind each other's backs) communication isn't a simple thing. Neglect happens, lack of communication happens, people try to talk, people aren't available, people aren't emotionally available and the biggest issue with every relationship - taking the other person for granted happens. Not everyone is strong enough to voice their opinion or be head and some relationships are going to enter problem spots from the get go because people entered it without understanding the other person and their needs well enough. Of course it's the fault of both the person who cheated and the person who got cheated on. A relationship isn't a one-sided affair. We'll get into the territory who's more wrong and who's more right. There are cases where cheating is absolutely the fault of the person who cheated on the partner and there are cases where it's grey and there are cases where it's the fault of the person they cheated on. The last case often happens in case of relationships with people who are emotionally unavailable, been abused and other things and for whatever reason the person doesn't leave the relationship. I'm trying to bring about all possible cases here. Once again there are multiple reasons as to why it happens and the fault can lie anywhere but in the larger picture the fault would lie with both of them but when you go to a granular level one person probably would be more at fault than the other. Having seen way too many good, bad, middle and all kinds of relationships I can't paint a black or white picture for something I've quite literally seen as being multi-shaded. Do I approve of it? Of course not. Do I condemn it? Nope. I'd like to know what the causes were for each case and take them step by step rather than make a sweeping generalisation of someone else or their relationship - because at the end of the day it isn't mine and I'm pretty good at figuring out the people who are likely to cheat on me and the people who won't. I've also had acquaintances in the past who cheated on people whose actions I found reprehensible because they figured it was a good way to break up or those who did it to get out of an abusive relationship. I haven't met anyone who cheated just because they were bored or sociopathic but I've come across tales.
Shal
If you really want to know where she stands, a good way of finding out is figuring out what she truly feels about her parents cheating on each other. And by this I mean prying deeper and not just the surface answer. e.g. How did you feel when you first found out? Were you okay with it? How did you come to terms with it? etc etc. It's going to be a sketchy topic and unless you guys are fairly emotionally close it could almost become playing a therapist. Depending on how you play it of course. But that will give you insight into why she said what she did.
If she's truly going the boredom route, I can envision that if you asked her 'if I was bored with what was going on with us and cheated on you, you'd be okay with that?' and the answer being yes would mean low self-esteem and I'm pretty sure the answer would be yes there. If on the other hand you reverse it and ask if she would cheat on someone because she was bored then it's no longer a hypothetical and is asking her what she would do - that reaction would give you the answer you want. However, however, you have to be able to read her really well to know when/how to phrase that question.
If you really want to know where she stands, a good way of finding out is figuring out what she truly feels about her parents cheating on each other. And by this I mean prying deeper and not just the surface answer. e.g. How did you feel when you first found out? Were you okay with it? How did you come to terms with it? etc etc. It's going to be a sketchy topic and unless you guys are fairly emotionally close it could almost become playing a therapist. Depending on how you play it of course. But that will give you insight into why she said what she did.
If she's truly going the boredom route, I can envision that if you asked her 'if I was bored with what was going on with us and cheated on you, you'd be okay with that?' and the answer being yes would mean low self-esteem and I'm pretty sure the answer would be yes there. If on the other hand you reverse it and ask if she would cheat on someone because she was bored then it's no longer a hypothetical and is asking her what she would do - that reaction would give you the answer you want. However, however, you have to be able to read her really well to know when/how to phrase that question.
She's 21 btw
And well after reading this I'm thinking on going easier with her now lol. Yes she seem to have self confidence issues (she got breast surgery recently besides other surgeries) and she has said she would be able to forgive an infidelity (I forgot If I said this or not)
Yesterday she was feeling down sadly, a bit depressed as she said, low energy, Veri low interest in her studies and wanted to sleep a lot :/
Today she might be in the same cycle.
I can't read the rest of the post now, will answer later but thanks for your point of view.
This 100%. IMO those who don't have an issue with it either haven't experienced it (for example, needing to get blood tests for diseases), or are essentially stating they have no problem cheating on a partner.
And that's a hell of a lot to consider when it comes to a girl you aren't even in a relationship with. Way too much to unpack when you're trying to decide if you want to date them exclusively and you're unsure of things based on what they said. Obviously it's up to Shal but there's red flags there and possible baggage and I would at least be wary of them before diving into a relationship. It just seems way too early for these types of concerns and maybe that's a sign.
Is it even worth taking such a risk? Like i said that's up to Shal but I think you should feel very secure and certain when starting a new relationship rather than having a foundation of insecurities already.
I don't want to get too off topic but if someone cheats in a relationship that is squarely the fault of the cheater.
Yes, it can be and usually is the result of both parties when there are issues with the relationship that put a person in a place where they decide to cheat but the actual decision to cheat on your partner is one that you make wholly on your own. It is the fault of that person who would choose to cheat when faced with issues in their relationship rather than take many other possible and healthier actions. To say it's the fault of both parties is to say that there are certain actions one must take to prevent cheating from their partner and if they still cheat that was their failing to prevent it. I don't believe that at all.
There's no black and white world and like I said it's a case by case basis. An abusive relationship that's stuck to by cultural norms isn't one where I'd condemn the cheating and make them feel bad for it. Would I indulge in it? No. Would I encourage it? No. Would I understand the circumstances that led to it and why they did it? yeah. It happens. I wouldn't be involved with such a person and empathise with them. I wouldn't sit there and judge them because they usually judge themselves. People stick around for a multitude of reasons. I think the easiest thing to do is empathise with their situation because they're not going to be there. Besides a lot of the times this sort of cheating happens when the partner finds an object of transference and this person spends enough time that they end up having feelings for them. I wish life was so black and white where people did the right things for the right reasons and the wrong things for the wrong reasons. But it isn't. There's a difference between understanding what someone did and being attracted to that. I suspect you've not come across people who've cheated and who've been cheated on in your personal life. Issues are a lot more complicated than yeah it's the fault of the cheater.
As for the other aspects, I think he's aware that she has issues yet he likes her. Pursuing further or not is his decision. Not ours. I think he was aware of it before he came to this thread asking about this particular issue. We're just focussed on the thing he's asked for. I'm fairly certain he's aware of the other risks/shortcomings and pitfalls as you can see in his response.
I think cheating is sypmtom of other problems within relationship that may or may not have been discussed ad nauseum and resulted in one party being stuck in state they are unhappy. Im not saying a cheater isnt doing something bad but cheating doesnt absolve the other party of also being shitty. There a lot of worse things you can do to someone then have sex with someone else.
Don't get me wrong, the actual relationship and the dynamics within certainly aren't black and white. People can have a multitude of reasons for wanting to cheat but I don't see how any of them could be justified or someone else's fault. I'm not saying the other person is completely faultless in the problems of the relationship either. I'm talking about the actual act of cheating. If you can cheat, you can leave a relationship, you can address the problems and try to fix them, you could do other things that don't involve infidelity.
And I hope this doesn't come off as me sounded offended or anything but I don't see why it's relevant if I've come across cheating in my personal life or not and I don't really get why my stance suggests I haven't? If it's relevant to you, I have been cheated on, I know people who have been cheated on and I also know people who have cheated on their partners either once or multiple times, one of them being a close friend. So I'm not condemning people who cheat but yes, I think it is something that is clearly wrong and no one makes you cheat.
I pretty much agree with you here. Like I already said, it's up to him to figure out what he wants to do. I'm not trying to tell him what to do, I'm just offering my perspective.
I'm not saying that if someone cheats, the person who is cheated on is absolved of all wrongdoing in the relationship. But they certainly aren't personally responsible for the cheating. You can't really make someone cheat; like when people get caught cheating and say "I did it because you..." it always comes off as them trying to justify their actions more than anything else. You chose to cheat when you could've made other choices that didn't involve betraying that person's trust. And if you discussed problems of a relationship ad nauseum and there's no effort from your partner to fix them and you've reached your breaking point, even then why cheat? Just leave the person. I know someone who was in such a situation and they even developed feelings for someone else during that time. They broke up with their partner before pursuing anything with the other person because they didn't want to betray their partner even if things were no longer working out.
In the end, it's not really about the simple idea of having sex with someone else. It's the act of betrayal.
We definitely have veered the conversation away. In response it did sound like you had a personal gripe that came from experiencing or not experiencing so I wondered if that reflected in your answers. My personal views on cheating is that I won't aid or abet it and that I'm not with anyone who violates trust. I don't have a problem with people having sex with others when they have consent but that's a different topic. I agree that no one makes a person cheat but having seen situations where it pretty much happened because of some misguided thing such as sticking with it despite both being unhappy for some ridiculous reason (or valid if it's cultural I suppose) I can understand why it happened. However it seemed in your posting that you forgave the other person of their faults. I used to have similar views a long time ago but I just stopped caring about other people's shitty behaviour so long as they weren't in my circles.
Naw. Lots of shitty people don't cheat. It really doesn't matter whether you're unhappy or your relationship has problems. Deal with them or leave. Once you cheat, any shit that leaves your mouth is totally irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
marriage laws and culture make leavin sometimes a very difficult thing to do in long term realtionships. I mostly side with Dan Savage that sometimes on a few occasions cheating or stepping out can save an otherwise great relationship outside of sexual needs. Some people dont always know what works for them or develop kinks later in life their partners cannot or will not. If the person you trusted to keep your needs in mind and will not or cannot support what you want that is also massive betrayal of trust.
Eh... I'm with Gotdatmoney on this. If you can cheat, you can leave. Leaving is only harder in the way that you have to actually address your problems instead of doing sneaky stuff just to cope.
And I don't really understand the rest of your post. I'm having trouble seeing how what you described could be a betrayal, could you elaborate?
Was talking to somebody for about a week, worked around her busy schedule to plan a date. She says she'll tell me in the evening what time works for her (we agreed on the day).
We decide on 730, 6 hits, I shower, get ready and all that. 645, she asks which location were meeting at (two of them within two miles). I ask if one works, she literally just responds "No". I wait a while to see if she's gunna elaborate. Nope, that's it.
715 hits (about to walk out the door), I just say.. Ok does the other location work better for you? She responds "actually I can't go tonight, sorry".
No excuse, no emergency, just nothing.
I still have no idea what happened as our conversation was flowing naturally up until I asked her to go to one of the two locations.
So I got ready and hyped up for a date we agreed on then she dips at literally the last minute and provides no reason as to why.
Now we're done talking. I don't understand..
We decide on 730, 6 hits, I shower, get ready and all that. 645, she asks which location were meeting at (two of them within two miles). I ask if one works, she literally just responds "No". I wait a while to see if she's gunna elaborate. Nope, that's it.
715 hits (about to walk out the door), I just say.. Ok does the other location work better for you? She responds "actually I can't go tonight, sorry".
No excuse, no emergency, just nothing.
I still have no idea what happened as our conversation was flowing naturally up until I asked her to go to one of the two locations.
So I got ready and hyped up for a date we agreed on then she dips at literally the last minute and provides no reason as to why.
Now we're done talking. I don't understand..
Well I spoke with chick B yesterday, we talked a lot and I asked her about her opinion on cheating again and well she said the same thing again but this time I kind of understood where she is coming from even though I don't share her thoughts on this subject.
In her case she said that her mom cheating in revenge kind of helped their parents relationship because her father "stopped thinking like her wife (mom) was someone secure that he could play around" and few of other things related to that. She said that her parents relationship improved for the better after they talked about all of their problems, they agreeded on "let's erase the past and start fresh now", which my SO said it helped them and in that particular scenario "cheating was benefitial to them", ofc I asked her to expand on it, and at some point she said that she wants to be optimist and she always tries to find good things in everything and that's a part of why she could think that.
Now, ofc all of this comes from her point of view and her experience in that chaos caused by their parents and the end result (she says her parents relationship right now has been way better for kind of a long time now).
I told her I don't agree at all with some of her wording like "cheating being benefitial in that (her parents) case", but well that's something she lived through and that's why she believes that.
Anyway she reminded me a lot that she could never do that but that she might be able to understand people that does it and she believes she is able to forgive them depending on the context (we both agreeded that words are words after all and everything comes down to how you actually behave in that scenario though)
I talked to her about my concerns and all, and after the conversation I kind of want to "take the risk" this time with her.
I'm fully aware that she saying that cheating could be benefitial in some cases is something shitty to say (to me at least), and I would never agree with that (I told her that btw) but I also can kind of understand that her vision is heavily influenced by her life experience with her parents, that they supposedly have a good relationship now after all that shitty past (I really don't believe that is good, it must have a lot of inner problems but whatever, is her opinion about what she sees day by day after all).
I am aware that this is a red flag but I feel like going on for it anyway (with kind of the guard up though).
I will keep dating her and see how it develops. I might become another ERA "I told you so" case but let's see how it goes, I might be an ERA test subject now lol.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm still by the idea that cheating shouldn't be tolerated but well that's just my opinion and I shouldn't impose it on other people.
She is not interested, deleted her number and move on to the next one.
She gave you one wordings and didn't respect your time (told you at last minute to cancel without even a rearrange), she isn't worth your attention.
In her case she said that her mom cheating in revenge kind of helped their parents relationship because her father "stopped thinking like her wife (mom) was someone secure that he could play around" and few of other things related to that. She said that her parents relationship improved for the better after they talked about all of their problems, they agreeded on "let's erase the past and start fresh now", which my SO said it helped them and in that particular scenario "cheating was benefitial to them", ofc I asked her to expand on it, and at some point she said that she wants to be optimist and she always tries to find good things in everything and that's a part of why she could think that.
Now, ofc all of this comes from her point of view and her experience in that chaos caused by their parents and the end result (she says her parents relationship right now has been way better for kind of a long time now).
I told her I don't agree at all with some of her wording like "cheating being benefitial in that (her parents) case", but well that's something she lived through and that's why she believes that.
Anyway she reminded me a lot that she could never do that but that she might be able to understand people that does it and she believes she is able to forgive them depending on the context (we both agreeded that words are words after all and everything comes down to how you actually behave in that scenario though)
I talked to her about my concerns and all, and after the conversation I kind of want to "take the risk" this time with her.
I'm fully aware that she saying that cheating could be benefitial in some cases is something shitty to say (to me at least), and I would never agree with that (I told her that btw) but I also can kind of understand that her vision is heavily influenced by her life experience with her parents, that they supposedly have a good relationship now after all that shitty past (I really don't believe that is good, it must have a lot of inner problems but whatever, is her opinion about what she sees day by day after all).
I am aware that this is a red flag but I feel like going on for it anyway (with kind of the guard up though).
I will keep dating her and see how it develops. I might become another ERA "I told you so" case but let's see how it goes, I might be an ERA test subject now lol.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm still by the idea that cheating shouldn't be tolerated but well that's just my opinion and I shouldn't impose it on other people.
She is not interested, deleted her number and move on to the next one.
She gave you one wordings and didn't respect your time (told you at last minute to cancel without even a rearrange), she isn't worth your attention.
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Never go back to failed relationships, move on becuse in 99% of cases the same problems that caused you to break up will still be there. Some people go through this with the same person multiple time before realising it. In your case she does not sound mature at all if she's ignoring you for days for whatever reason you argued.
That not sad feeling is the realisation that you don't want to continue.
This behaviour has come up before, don't try to understand it just realise it's just one of those things with online dating. Block, delete and move on she just saved you time to find out she is a shitty person.
If you need a likely reason;
You were only the backup date and the other guy actually confirmed with her
Or (This is weird) it seems there are people that like the idea of dates and will go through the whole process right up to the end for maximum attention/ validation and then bail. Repeating the process again with the next guy.
What is everyone's thought on dating a young single mom, if your a young single guy? Met this girl recently, and she's been all over me. She seems like a great girl. Probably one of the nicest girls I've ever met, but the kid thing is scaring me a bit. The cynical side of me thinks she's just looking for a new baby daddy. I think she just recently split from the kids dad. I've always avoided young women with kids, but she seems different. I don't want to pass on a girl like her, but dont want to feel like she's trying to "catch me and nail me down" either. I would note, that she currently hasn't finished college and doesn't have a career yet. Another red flag for me.
I have a friend that got into a relationship with a young mother, and when he wanted to bail, he couldn't do it because of the kid. The mom REALLY latched onto his life ( became BFF's with his friends wives/ GF's. Forced her way into his family and all their business) and she will not let go. I feel bad for the mom and kid cause I know my buddy will end up bailing at some point, and it's gonna ruin their lives. I dont ever want to do that to anyone and at the same time I don't want anyone to do that to me ( Use a kid as a hostage).
I have a friend that got into a relationship with a young mother, and when he wanted to bail, he couldn't do it because of the kid. The mom REALLY latched onto his life ( became BFF's with his friends wives/ GF's. Forced her way into his family and all their business) and she will not let go. I feel bad for the mom and kid cause I know my buddy will end up bailing at some point, and it's gonna ruin their lives. I dont ever want to do that to anyone and at the same time I don't want anyone to do that to me ( Use a kid as a hostage).
Based on your ages and the fact that she has not finished college or have a job, it's not something I'd recommend. If she's recently split with the baby father you could just be the rebound or worse he could come back into her life and push you out becuse they have a child together that's a special bond between them.
They'll be plenty of single girls for you without kids for you to date in the future, you don't need to jump in with this girl becuse she's nice.
Yea, that's the feeling I'm getting too. I would also like to mention that we're both in our late twenties, so where not some 19/20 year olds. She's just making it so damn hard lol.
1. Stop worrying. You like her and she likes you
2. Cheating is always shitty mainly because it breaks trust. For people who get bored Open Relationships and Hall passes exist. Although you might not seem to be interested in one. I would talk about trust and expectations when you have the defining the relationship talk.
3. Stop stalling and have the defining the relationship talk. Man up, get out of your head and ask her to be your Girlfriend. She has asked you in her own way to be her BF but she needs you to confirm it. Part of being an Adult in a relationship is meeting the needs of your partner. Be an adult and meet her needs
So, I don't post a lot, but I lurk a ton. I kind of need some guys point of view on my situation, since I've talked about it only to girls for now. But girls opinions are welcome too ;)
I've been seeing girls for a year now, after a horrible breakup where I was cheated on in one of the worst ways possible after a 7 year relationship .
A little more than 2 months ago I met this amazing girl on happn, the problem is she lives in Paris and I live in the south of France . We instantly clicked and started playing hangman as a way to know each other instead of the usual boring conversations :) and we're still playing to this day...
After a week she offered to take a train to come spend the weekend at my place, I said of course.
The weekend went amazingly, too much maybe, we got drunk, talked, kissed and fucked all weekend. At the end of the weekend, we realized that we REALLY liked each other but agreed that we didn't want a girlfriend/boyfriend.
The next weekend I had a trip planned to Paris but with another girl, a friend from college though I admit the situation was a bit ambiguous. I couldn't go to see her so she was a bit bitter about that but eventually understood though her friends told her I was probably a fuck boy. Nothing happened with the other girl.
She came back the week after, then I went to Paris to see her, and she came back again a few weeks ago and stayed at my place more than a week, in part due to the train strikes currently happening in France. The end of her stay was very heavy in feelings because she had to leave but we both didnt want to, especially since we knew we wouldn't be able to see each other for more than a month because of those fucking strikes and we short on money...
AND ALSO because I started to ask what she wanted from me since we both like each other a lot, but she doesn't want to put a label on it for now. I said that if she wanted to be a couple I was ok, that if she wanted to be in an open relationship I was ok too due to the distance etc... but that I didn't like to be in this gray area for too long.
She asked that I give her time, I said ok.
Last week I was in Barcelona with some friends and one night I was out partying and I was drunk and became kind of needy via texts, asking her to not forget me and if she still wanted me etc... she didn't like that .
We talked about it later and I said that it was the alcohol, the distance and this gray situation that was fucking with my mind.
NOW IS THE REAL IMPORTANT PART
She said to me that I should see other girls, that it was ok as long as she didn't know. I said that I didn't really wanted to right now, but if it should happen we should be open and sincere about it. She doesn't agree, she says it wouldn't be healthy, that every curiosity is not good to have and every truth should not necessarily be told, at least for now. That she is just being realistic...
So guys, does this mean that she is seeing other guys? She always told me that she wasn't really looking for guys, that she didn't want to see any other guys, that she was ok with a sex toy. But she parties A LOT and has a very active life with many friends, while mine is kind if boring right now and I'm trying to rebuild it but can't manage for now, which makes me insecure in this situation I think ....
After all that I thought she didn't really like me, but she said she was acting weird because she's kinda lost, being between jobs, and she finds she likes me too much for this stage of the "relationship", and then she asked me if I was seeing us living together, because she was thinking a lot about coming to study or work in my city for at least a year to see what happens...
But this part about seeing other people is torturing me.... I think I'm in love with her, she's on of the coolest girls I ever met, and when we're together she really makes me feel liked or loved, even more so than girls I spent years with... She's the best fuck I ever had and she really loves my dick, even though I had a few times I couldn't get it hard due to performance anxiety because I like her too much I think...
So what say you era?
Sorry for the novella but I think every detail counts. If I get at least one piece of advice it would have been worth it ;)
I've been seeing girls for a year now, after a horrible breakup where I was cheated on in one of the worst ways possible after a 7 year relationship .
A little more than 2 months ago I met this amazing girl on happn, the problem is she lives in Paris and I live in the south of France . We instantly clicked and started playing hangman as a way to know each other instead of the usual boring conversations :) and we're still playing to this day...
After a week she offered to take a train to come spend the weekend at my place, I said of course.
The weekend went amazingly, too much maybe, we got drunk, talked, kissed and fucked all weekend. At the end of the weekend, we realized that we REALLY liked each other but agreed that we didn't want a girlfriend/boyfriend.
The next weekend I had a trip planned to Paris but with another girl, a friend from college though I admit the situation was a bit ambiguous. I couldn't go to see her so she was a bit bitter about that but eventually understood though her friends told her I was probably a fuck boy. Nothing happened with the other girl.
She came back the week after, then I went to Paris to see her, and she came back again a few weeks ago and stayed at my place more than a week, in part due to the train strikes currently happening in France. The end of her stay was very heavy in feelings because she had to leave but we both didnt want to, especially since we knew we wouldn't be able to see each other for more than a month because of those fucking strikes and we short on money...
AND ALSO because I started to ask what she wanted from me since we both like each other a lot, but she doesn't want to put a label on it for now. I said that if she wanted to be a couple I was ok, that if she wanted to be in an open relationship I was ok too due to the distance etc... but that I didn't like to be in this gray area for too long.
She asked that I give her time, I said ok.
Last week I was in Barcelona with some friends and one night I was out partying and I was drunk and became kind of needy via texts, asking her to not forget me and if she still wanted me etc... she didn't like that .
We talked about it later and I said that it was the alcohol, the distance and this gray situation that was fucking with my mind.
NOW IS THE REAL IMPORTANT PART
She said to me that I should see other girls, that it was ok as long as she didn't know. I said that I didn't really wanted to right now, but if it should happen we should be open and sincere about it. She doesn't agree, she says it wouldn't be healthy, that every curiosity is not good to have and every truth should not necessarily be told, at least for now. That she is just being realistic...
So guys, does this mean that she is seeing other guys? She always told me that she wasn't really looking for guys, that she didn't want to see any other guys, that she was ok with a sex toy. But she parties A LOT and has a very active life with many friends, while mine is kind if boring right now and I'm trying to rebuild it but can't manage for now, which makes me insecure in this situation I think ....
After all that I thought she didn't really like me, but she said she was acting weird because she's kinda lost, being between jobs, and she finds she likes me too much for this stage of the "relationship", and then she asked me if I was seeing us living together, because she was thinking a lot about coming to study or work in my city for at least a year to see what happens...
But this part about seeing other people is torturing me.... I think I'm in love with her, she's on of the coolest girls I ever met, and when we're together she really makes me feel liked or loved, even more so than girls I spent years with... She's the best fuck I ever had and she really loves my dick, even though I had a few times I couldn't get it hard due to performance anxiety because I like her too much I think...
So what say you era?
Sorry for the novella but I think every detail counts. If I get at least one piece of advice it would have been worth it ;)
A lot to unpack here but the detail is useful. I would say that she wants to do whatever she likes but wants to control what you do even though she's not showing any commitment. Is she seeing other guys? Maybe, maybe not but in the casual situation she wants this to be it should not matter. She's not committing to anything, MAYBE come to your city to work OR study? That also a non commitment. She's keeping you just enough interested but it's not a real plan. Honestly it's because you like the sex with her that it's clouding your judgement.
I recommend you set the ground rules with her. It's either casual or not. If you don't get a true answer then tell her it's casual and don't speak about other women you see with her. If she asks, that's not her business. Don't wait for her to decide because I don't think she ever will. She'll respect you more if you stand up for yourself otherwise this situation will continue for a long time and never get resolved.
Don't mention you you are going to a girl's city with another women so you cant see her. For future reference. No matter how good or bad intentioned you are, it looks poor.
So far most of this is pretty standard
Smh. I'm sure you know this is dumb but I still need to highlight this is dumb. Dont do this. If having your phone drunk is gonna make you do dumb things, leave it at home. You made this shit worse by doing this.
She can feel however she wants to feel about this. It's really an irrelevant point beyond she wants to see more people
If you aren't exclusive (which she clearly does not wish to be) always assume they are seeing other people.
I mean ultimately this is about you taking control of what you can and cannot handle. You're too attached dude. This is not your girlfriend. Slinging around "I'm in love" and "seeing other people is torture" is extra. If what you want at the end of the day is her and you to be exclusive then what you tell her is "I want to be exclusive, if you can't committ to that then we will have to go our separate ways". You dont fuck around in this gray zone both unhappy and miserable. She has been clear about what she wants. Time for you to be clear about what you want.
Yeah I'll do that eventually, but I want to give her more time. She seems to sort things out a little bit more each day since I decided to give her more space...
I think the lack of commitment might not be from a lack of will but more of a lack of trust...
If I didn't tell her, I'm pretty sure we would have crossed paths even though Paris is huge. Shit like that usually happens to me, I'm unlucky like that...
Yeah I know... I never in my life did something like that though. Don't know why I did that... I really think it's the distance and this gray situation
Are you sure from what I told that she wants to see other guys?
Why wouldn't she clearly say so in this case? I said I was ok with it... I just don't want to be fucked in this gray area.
Couldn't it be a case of not wanting to scare me away because I was the one pushing the "I don't want a girlfriend" thing the most at the beginning?
She already mentioned something like that but I don't know...
I have a hard time figuring out if she's insecure and unsure but still "loves" me, or if she's just dishonest and evil but act like that to keep me under her control...
You are being taken for a ride. She seems to have all the control in this situation although it's good you have talked to her about not wanting to be in a gray area. DO NOT tell her about other girls if you're casual. I think you're desperate (got a boring life compared to hers and don't have other girls) so you're clinging to her even when that betrays the casual relationship. It's confusing that she needs more time to think about going exclusive with you but then she says she likes you too much for a casual relationship. Get her to clear that up. You need to show a bit more independence rather than getting clingy. Don't have to text or call her for at least a week if you both are casual. Let her make some moves. The good thing is you've both put in the work to travel to see each other rather than being one-sided. You just do your own thing for now and let her put in the work, to commit. You focus on work and life rather than just her all the time.
Good to know she at least loves your dick lol
Lol, I would take those odds. Like she said, you don't need to be forth coming with every detail of your life. Address it "if" (and it's unlikely it would even happen) it comes up.
Just like don't do it again.
You think she is telling you to see other people and not mention it for fun?
Been through it 100 times in this thread but peeps don't handle the truth well. She has a good thing going on, she aint gonna say shit to jeopardize that.
Naw, she is hitting you up with "I need more time to think and shit" in combination with "I think you should see other people", that aint compatible with not trying to scare you off.
Honestly, who care about figuring out her game? YOU take control and make her understand exactly what YOU want. Then if she can't offer you what you need, peace the fuck out. Instead of figuring out what is going on in her mind, just make it clear "this is what I need, if you can't offer that that's fine but I'm out". You'll get an answer real quick if you stop fucking around.
has anyone tried farmersonly.com? I'm skeptical, but I would love to date a woman who can drive a tractor.