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Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Even if you thought brazil being confirmed made him somehow more likely to choose a good lynch why would you just count your own opinion out of the equation. Like from your own perspective you should be as tiwn confirmed as he is.
The hell turmoil?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
In no moment I said Brazil is infallible, that is your own leap

Without a SK we have up to 4 mislynches before losing, with a SK it gets complex as its kills can sway the game one way or another, making brazil functionally a vigilante for as long as he lives is better than giving scum the chance to sway the votes, even at the cost of lacking the info later in the game. It is a 100% town-controlled kill

And I am not dismissing myself, even though I think that day1 RNGing would be the best pure play on his part, I have been there being a vigilante and I know that killing a player it's a hard call to make, so I'm trying to look town doing what I think is better for town, to try to make him not chose me, and chose between the remaining 11, increasing the odds of hitting scum/sk.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I'll say from a place of experience that a vigilante shooting RNG shots would be the most bone headed thing ever.

I understand what you are trying to say and it's all well and good but it removes all culpability from everyone which means even with a lucky shot, we would have no links to work from.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
You understand my reasoning, yet you straw man me("
Being confirmed town does not equal being right") and vote for me

Do you think I am scum y or n?
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
1gddcc.jpg
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
That's... not an answer. What did you think of his reaction to the two votes he got? If it wasn't just a meme vote, did you get a read out of it?
Can I read Sorian based on what's happened in the last seven hours? No. Do I have pieces that I can put together? Sure, but that's every post. Here's a question: what are you getting out of pushing this line of questioning? Because I'm gonna guess it's basically the same thing, since that's how shit works.

Except with turmoil, who's over there digging a big ass hole but I'm not sure if that hole is alignment indicative. It's real interesting he flopped back to mechanics to try to get out of it, though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,213
And I am not dismissing myself, even though I think that day1 RNGing would be the best pure play on his part, I have been there being a vigilante and I know that killing a player it's a hard call to make, so I'm trying to look town doing what I think is better for town, to try to make him not chose me, and chose between the remaining 11, increasing the odds of hitting scum/sk.
First you're going to waste a whole lot of time fruitlessly arguing for this because it requires at least a majority of the players to join in and I'm not sure that will happen and you're probably going to pull a lot of heat even trying, which kind of invalidates your last goal there.


Anywho, while we're posting wacky theories what about a mass claim? As people flip the true setup should become more obvious and scum claims will have too many numbers in their categories. Guess it depends on if that happens faster than PRs get burned through. Haven't tried to run any random numbers, may do tomorrow if I find myself bored. Perfunctory google search on the tactic in c9++ games hasn't turned up much but don't have loads of time right now.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
You understand my reasoning, yet you straw man me("
Being confirmed town does not equal being right") and vote for me

Do you think I am scum y or n?

I think you could be. Being able to understand what you are going for doesn't clear you. It's not a good play if you are just throwing any old shit at the wall. And not really a straw man. The goal is to lynch scum, not just lynch any old player. Wanting to blindly follow along would be coming second to wanting to be right.

First you're going to waste a whole lot of time fruitlessly arguing for this because it requires at least a majority of the players to join in and I'm not sure that will happen and you're probably going to pull a lot of heat even trying, which kind of invalidates your last goal there.


Anywho, while we're posting wacky theories what about a mass claim? As people flip the true setup should become more obvious and scum claims will have too many numbers in their categories. Guess it depends on if that happens faster than PRs get burned through. Haven't tried to run any random numbers, may do tomorrow if I find myself bored. Perfunctory google search on the tactic in c9++ games hasn't turned up much but don't have loads of time right now.

You would end up with a lot of vanilla town and an exposed town PR or two.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Hmm. Mass claim is interesting but may be better day 2 after we have some data? If we have a doctor they're dead even before Brazil unless they can self protect and scum will just claim vanilla, I expect, maybe a light role, and we won't have much to weigh.

I dunno tho, never been in a non-ONUW game where people mass claim early. I'd listen to arguments in favor.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
rac I think everyone has posted at this point but you just have the two reaction posts to Brazil being innocent at the start.

Also Lone_Prodigy but asking for more there is asking for miracles.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
No, Gorlak hasn't checked in at all, and Lux and melon only have 2/3 posts respectively. Why just pluck out rac? A third of the game seems to be just sitting so far.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Sure, sometimes people feel there's nothing to discuss on day one. And sometimes it's because they're busy hanging out in scum chat instead of posting in the thread. What I wondered, though, is why Sorian plucked rac out of the group of people not-much-here.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
No, Gorlak hasn't checked in at all, and Lux and melon only have 2/3 posts respectively. Why just pluck out rac? A third of the game seems to be just sitting so far.

Because I took a glance over the player list and didn't even notice Gorlak. I did see L_P and melon but I'm used to melon always slow starting and lp always being quiet so they didn't stick out to me. rac is usually a presence even if it's a small one and I'd like to generate conversation since nothing is happening.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,548
São Paulo, Brazil
Lux, you've successfuly ignored my vote until it disappeared.

Except with turmoil, who's over there digging a big ass hole but I'm not sure if that hole is alignment indicative. It's real interesting he flopped back to mechanics to try to get out of it, though.
How is turmoil coming back to that argument after being questioned (by yourself, even) a "flop back to mechanics"? He's literally just explaining what he meant with his original post.

You're misrepresenting the whole thing and it feels very reach-y.

VOTE: Dr. Monkey
 

melonrabbit

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,103
Nowhere
That's something we can both get behind on. By the way, thanks to your inFamous game, I finished the first one and the I've started the second one. I like the series now.

Nice to introduce someone new to the series.

That's what karma gives you for trying to end a soul as pure as mine.

Karma? Really you went there.

and yes, as far as an innocent child goes it is what it is. Yes, I'm sad it happens to be Brazil but them's the breaks. and treating it as anything more without any other information is absurd. Arguing over IC semantics seems unusually nitpick even for this group.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
So...

Sorian isn't paying attention
Turmoil has an interesting choice of words
Fep throws around a mass claim idea, which feels wrong
Oliver hasn't given anything tangible yet

And Brazil wants to enjoy a fleeting moment... a tale from the past: there once was an innocent child, all inexperienced and full of thoughts. A splinter sitting in his paw, paining the child ever so badly. With cunning wits a splinter led everyone astray. Mercyfully leading the child to the end, caressing it dearly in his arms, but not laying one finger on it. Such is the legend of mini 1.1
 

melonrabbit

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,103
Nowhere
Sorain as a random vote, lol.

Let's add to the vote madness.

VOTE: melonrabbit

I like random.

Even if you thought brazil being confirmed made him somehow more likely to choose a good lynch why would you just count your own opinion out of the equation. Like from your own perspective you should be as tiwn confirmed as he is.
The hell turmoil?

Wow. Stanlely. Out of the gate as strong voice of reason and clarity. I could not be prouder.
 

melonrabbit

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,103
Nowhere
So...

Sorian isn't paying attention
Turmoil has an interesting choice of words
Fep throws around a mass claim idea, which feels wrong
Oliver hasn't given anything tangible yet

And Brazil wants to enjoy a fleeting moment... a tale from the past: there once was an innocent child, all inexperienced and full of thoughts. A splinter sitting in his paw, paining the child ever so badly. With cunning wits a splinter let everyone astray. Mercyfully leading the child to the end, caressing it dearly in his arms, but not laying one finger on it. Such is the legend of mini 1.1

This is hard to understand without gifs.

I was promised gifs.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Seeing melon here makes me think of mini 3 as well. Another one I lost, surviving 'till the end. At least I didn't vote you that day *_*

I'll do a full reread now, shouldn't take long :p

And because people were already expecting me to post - here is one single OT comment on this:
I already announced during sign-ups that I won't be as active as usually. I only have these evening hours over here to post, life's busy atm. But I'll give my all in the time I have.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Brazil Holy crap, I did, didn't I! That's what I get for scrolling past it quickly last night. Thanks for sparing the noose for today.

This is a very awkward reaction. The vote is gone but you still don't actually react to it. You react to Brazil mentioning when he moves his vote. Did you feel pressure when he was voting you?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
I was expecting to shitpost but now we have actual things to talk about ugh
Turmoil, give me those actual things because this looks like a cop out with bad logic even:
I was expecting serious talk over strategies about what to do when we have an innocent child, but thinking/googling over it it seems like a dead end were you chose the lynch of the day for as long as you live.
And excuse me... above pretty much implies you'd follow Brazil no matter what you think. Stanley pointed out as much. So you don't get away with throwing this back at people:
In no moment I said Brazil is infallible, that is your own leap
Even more so when you get back to trusting Brazil in #154
I do recognize the old turmoil here - going by logics, while maybe not being as comprehensible as others. But one thing in particular bothers me:
so I'm trying to look town doing what I think is better for town
Trying to look town leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Not being town, not clearing yourself. Trying to look town. But this is reaching, I'd not vote turmoil for the wording alone of course.

meh, I love all these activity overflowing day ones
in b4: look in the mirror dumbo
tenor.gif

(srsly what kind of gifs do you expect? I need fluff I have an interest in to flourish.)
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Gorlak out the gate with strength and even a gif. There we go.
unvote
Gotta give some thought before I poke another bear and I've got another class yet to go, so it'll have to wait.

Lux, you've successfuly ignored my vote until it disappeared.


How is turmoil coming back to that argument after being questioned (by yourself, even) a "flop back to mechanics"? He's literally just explaining what he meant with his original post.

You're misrepresenting the whole thing and it feels very reach-y.

VOTE: Dr. Monkey
So you read the whole thread, such as it is, and this is the conclusion you draw?

tumblr_o7vi6jioZx1s429l7o1_400.gif


turmoil's posts are a series of mistakes and shady moves; the question is not whether this is true, but how to weigh and read them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Because I took a glance over the player list and didn't even notice Gorlak. I did see L_P and melon but I'm used to melon always slow starting and lp always being quiet so they didn't stick out to me. rac is usually a presence even if it's a small one and I'd like to generate conversation since nothing is happening.
To go further down Monkey's argumentation: what about comrade sparkster? He dropped your name and is good for now? Because I don't see anything else there.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
This is a fair point against Snorian btw. The conversation was dropped quickly.

What point? That I shut down easy conversation forcing scum to actually play a harder game?

To go further down Monkey's argumentation: what about comrade sparkster? He dropped your name and is good for now? Because I don't see anything else there.

Have you played with him before? Get him to contribute anything meaningful over the course of this entire game and I'll give you an award.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Well, while no one is around, I've found meaning in life.

mini IIII is now officially powered by old memories. In great honour of Gafia Season 4 - we all hold Harry Potter dear to our hearts, let it invade this thread. My gifs will be potter-ish this game :>

from the boy who made all the wrong choices:
tumblr_od7ebnJoZG1ulp1mko1_500.gif
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I hold HP close to my heart as a torture chamber that I could read and not have to directly participate in.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
What point? That I shut down easy conversation forcing scum to actually play a harder game?
Shutting down any conversation on a slow day 1 seems counterproductive to me.
Have you played with him before? Get him to contribute anything meaningful over the course of this entire game and I'll give you an award.
I do not remember playing with him (sorry if we did though comrade) - so he gets a free pass because you don't expect anything from him... that's just grea.. eh, not useful?

What about rac makes you itching to see more?

(I mean of course I see the whole point of purposely singling out one player and generating discussion this way, but I don't know if that's what you intended)
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
I hold HP close to my heart as a torture chamber that I could read and not have to directly participate in.
Yeah, you've visited the lands of a Night Vale in these distant times.

Back in the days a certain bear misunderstood his role and claimed miller. Snape was not aware that he was a good guy and only appeared as a baddy to the death eaters ~ oh no ~ but alas he wasn't lynched. A wild rat came out of nowhere and declared his role anti-town! He could not face the consequences of potentially being out of control at night, killing people randomly and offered himself.
And a werewolf was lynched. Well, an actual werewolf who wasn't scum, but town :(
4Qlg8.gif
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,240
Do we want to talk about fep and how he casually threw his idea into the room? Fishing? I do agree with Sorian here, that it would expose town PRs and won't bring any benefit.

These C9++ scenarios wouldn't be feasible if solveable by mass claiming d1. This brings us to why fep posts such an idea? And fep usually uses his head when he's playing (and not drunk ;)
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Digging into the why on that with nothing to compare it to may not get us far yet, but it's certainly something that will need to be discussed. I agree with you that ferreting out what drove that suggestion is a larger concern but I'm not sure what conclusions we can draw at present. It's also such an easy thing to say no to that responses may not be particularly helpful either. Not interested in shutting down this inquiry, just not sure what we can do with it right now.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Shutting down any conversation on a slow day 1 seems counterproductive to me.

I do not remember playing with him (sorry if we did though comrade) - so he gets a free pass because you don't expect anything from him... that's just grea.. eh, not useful?

What about rac makes you itching to see more?

(I mean of course I see the whole point of purposely singling out one player and generating discussion this way, but I don't know if that's what you intended)

We'll have to agree to disagree. Trash conversation actively detracts from scum hunting, that's literally how I fool a lot of you most of the time.

For Comrade, you can policy lynch him if you want but that's about the best you'll get. It doesn't matter if you want to give him a free pass or not. He's going to pop in, say some nonsensical stuff, throw out a non commital accusation, then disappear for a day. I haven't had to lynch him as scum yet but I assume it's like anyone else that doesn't give me much to read (Star, lp, Kyan, etc.), finding him out will be through connections, not as a first point of contact.

I chose rac in particular because I know that he clams up when he's scum and is usually a middling presence otherwise. I'm not seeing a presence at all.

Also, I'll bait the next question by saying, yes, I am purposely voting turmoil over rac right now and am aware of it. Turmoil is the honey trap I want to watch, I'm not convinced he isn't just town that made a stupid error but I still want to see how his situation develops with pressure votes.

Digging into the why on that with nothing to compare it to may not get us far yet, but it's certainly something that will need to be discussed. I agree with you that ferreting out what drove that suggestion is a larger concern but I'm not sure what conclusions we can draw at present. It's also such an easy thing to say no to that responses may not be particularly helpful either. Not interested in shutting down this inquiry, just not sure what we can do with it right now.

I don't actually see FEP's thing as that huge of a deal. It's something that's been punished heavily so many times in our community (role fishing) that anyone with even passing meta trying to hide won't bring it up and this setup is deceivingly complex in that it looks like it's easy to solve but there is so much overlap that it is near impossible until end game. So his mass claim idea isn't particularly offensive or shocking.
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,053
Los Angeles, CA
This is a very awkward reaction. The vote is gone but you still don't actually react to it. You react to Brazil mentioning when he moves his vote. Did you feel pressure when he was voting you?

Well, not really, it's day 1. I'd rather not die, but again, it's day 1. Someone's gotta eat the bullet, so I don't see the vote against me as outlandish or anything.
 

LuxCommander

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,053
Los Angeles, CA
Do we want to talk about fep and how he casually threw his idea into the room? Fishing? I do agree with Sorian here, that it would expose town PRs and won't bring any benefit.

These C9++ scenarios wouldn't be feasible if solveable by mass claiming d1. This brings us to why fep posts such an idea? And fep usually uses his head when he's playing (and not drunk ;)

This is indeed something of concern. I'm not comfortable about that either, it is Day 1 after all. I'm all about bread crumbing on Day 1, but that? That's just asking for a death sentence and is horrible for town.

And for that reason...

VOTE: flatearthpandas
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
We have only 5 active votes, with players around the world and less than one day left, people should start to put some votes down

Turmoil, give me those actual things because this looks like a cop out with bad logic even:
It was something born out of the moment, at that time frame it seemed like if everyone was shy regarding posting because no one was sure how to react to an innocent child(yeah, just 12 minutes in and with timezones and stuff, but still that is how it felt to me), regarding the serious talk, I was enthusiastic about starting a D1 with info, turned out it was no so of a big deal as I stated in my answer to brazil.

And excuse me... above pretty much implies you'd follow Brazil no matter what you think. Stanley pointed out as much. So you don't get away with throwing this back at people:
You will have to explain how these thing are the same(you or stan, monki, sorian, Am I forgetting someone?, I am talking of following brazil and thinking that brazil is infallible being uncompatible ideas). brb burden of proof
Trying to look town leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Not being town, not clearing yourself. Trying to look town. But this is reaching, I'd not vote turmoil for the wording alone of course.
Should I try to look scum?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I don't actually see FEP's thing as that huge of a deal. It's something that's been punished heavily so many times in our community (role fishing) that anyone with even passing meta trying to hide won't bring it up and this setup is deceivingly complex in that it looks like it's easy to solve but there is so much overlap that it is near impossible until end game. So his mass claim idea isn't particularly offensive or shocking.
Nah, in a vacuum it isn't and I think sometimes a mass claim is probably a good move up front; here I just don't see it, and I'm curious what else he does now that he's made the suggestion. Just another thing for the pile.

You should be looking for hyper aggressive ""townies"" looking to score points with Town PR

Still not seeing anyone raise red flags about being scum

I don't know what either of these mean. Are you saying you aren't seeing hyper aggression? That we should look for it but you're not seeing it? Or you're not seeing anyone raising red flags on scum? Or some other possible interpretation?
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,213
Do we want to talk about fep and how he casually threw his idea into the room? Fishing? I do agree with Sorian here, that it would expose town PRs and won't bring any benefit.

These C9++ scenarios wouldn't be feasible if solveable by mass claiming d1. This brings us to why fep posts such an idea? And fep usually uses his head when he's playing (and not drunk ;)
As it is not encougaring anyone to get the ball rolling and start claiming, I think fishing for reactions and not roles would be fair to say. Except instead of fishing, I would say directly asking for reactions. I don't know about using my head, but I'm generally a pretty open book with my ideas and theories. Nothing lost by pitching ideas, getting feedback, then discarding or pursuing. Right now mafia doesn't know if there is a SK or not because at this stage they don't know how many vanilla towns are in the setup and but they will d2. Easier for them to slip in their claims and in general better to have scum having to commit to fake claims earlier. Numbers and probability really aren't my thing, which is why I'll usually fall into mapping lynch possibilities as games progress so I realize I'm prone to just not understanding. So yeah, I need feedback on this stuff. Take it as you will.

I'm gonna go ahead and
Vote: Oliver James

Lots of shitposts, maybe one legit so far. Tell me more.

Btdubs, is there a highlight or something? I don't see anything in the rules about post color, don't see a highlight button, but colors aren't looking like the red that I'm used to.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
[ highlight ] now does what you have above.

I noticed that about OJ, too - I was surprised to see him so high in the post count because I couldn't recall anything that wasn't about Brazil the country.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
I like random.



Wow. Stanlely. Out of the gate as strong voice of reason and clarity. I could not be prouder.
yeah well i hope you liked it, i get 1 per game.

You will have to explain how these thing are the same(you or stan, monki, sorian, Am I forgetting someone?, I am talking of following brazil and thinking that brazil is infallible being uncompatible ideas). brb burden of proof

okay so you dont think brazil is inafllible.

yet you wanted to give him sole control of the lynch.
knowing that he could mostly be wrong in whoever he picks.
and that this would mean no voting activity by anyone else would have any pressure behind it.
and that voting records going forward would just be completely useless.

if you dont think brazil is infallible then this plan is even more ridiculous than i thought.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
Is Lux feeling like extremely artificial to anyone else.
like straight up barby doll artificial.

in b4: look in the mirror dumbo
tenor.gif

(srsly what kind of gifs do you expect? I need fluff I have an interest in to flourish.)

it bugs the crap outta me that dumbo starts lifting off the ground before the sneeze actually happens, like it completely undercuts the explosive movement that a sneeze should have.
BAH!
 
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