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RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
I wanted to write that post skip Nami needs a top.

I mostly liked Nami's Whole Cake Island outfit. She changes her clothing every arc, however, so even if her original post time skip outfit is quite bad it'll be relagated to openings soon enough. I feel like Robin was hugely downgraded, her face looks much less unique than she did before the time skip.

Going back to the shonen manga discussion, I think cosmicblizzard missed a point about the subgenre manga. An average shonen battle manga uses fights for visual spectacle and to artificially extend an arc length. An actually well written shonen battle manga uses its fights as a way to bring character growth and move the story forward. One Piece is a flawed series in a lot of senses and I surely don't hold him as some sort of genius, but it sure knows how to make its battles meaningful in a much bigger way than just the visual espectacle. In 10 years, I will probably not remember a thing about most fights in MHA*, but I can still visualize some of the best moments of early One Piece as if I had the panel in front of my face.

The fact that most people remember fights like Haku and Zabuza vs Team 7, Rock Lee vs Gaara and the first Naruto vs Sasuke much better than most fights in Shippuden tells it all, really.

*Actually, I think in 10 years I'll still be salty about Uraraka losing against the I'll blow up until I kill you guy in the Tournament Arc.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,755
Fortunately OP is well known for having them regularly change outfits, so that eventually resolved itself. Grew tired of that outfit very quirkly, though it still annoyingly persists to this day in the occasional OP games that come out since that's her first TS-outfit.
I mostly liked Nami's Whole Cake Island outfit. She changes her clothing every arc, however, so even if her original post time skip outfit is quite bad it'll be relagated to openings soon enough. I feel like Robin was hugely downgraded, her face looks much less unique than she did before the time skip.

Going back to the shonen manga discussion, I think cosmicblizzard missed a point about the subgenre manga. An average shonen battle manga uses fights for visual spectacle and to artificially extend an arc length. An actually well written shonen battle manga uses its fights as a way to bring character growth and move the story forward. One Piece is a flawed series in a lot of senses and I surely don't hold him as some sort of genius, but it sure knows how to make its battles meaningful in a much bigger way than just the visual espectacle. In 10 years, I will probably not remember a thing about most fights in MHA*, but I can still visualize some of the best moments of early One Piece as if I had the panel in front of my face.

The fact that most people remember fights like Haku and Zabuza vs Team 7, Rock Lee vs Gaara and the first Naruto vs Sasuke much better than most fights in Shippuden tells it all, really.

*Actually, I think in 10 years I'll still be salty about Uraraka losing against the I'll blow up until I kill you guy in the Tournament Arc.
She literally has a full lenght shirt in the new chap. GODa knew I'd post that. He got me.
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
My issue with Nami is more her new proportions and the way she's posed most of the time (or how she often HAS to show her asscrack) than her outfits really. That and how she's treated like just a walking sex object in everything that isn't the manga too, yikes.

Robin looks like a titty monster too and has become a non entity in general, which is super disappointing.
 

petran79

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,025
Greece
I mostly liked Nami's Whole Cake Island outfit. She changes her clothing every arc, however, so even if her original post time skip outfit is quite bad it'll be relagated to openings soon enough. I feel like Robin was hugely downgraded, her face looks much less unique than she did before the time skip.

Going back to the shonen manga discussion, I think cosmicblizzard missed a point about the subgenre manga. An average shonen battle manga uses fights for visual spectacle and to artificially extend an arc length. An actually well written shonen battle manga uses its fights as a way to bring character growth and move the story forward. One Piece is a flawed series in a lot of senses and I surely don't hold him as some sort of genius, but it sure knows how to make its battles meaningful in a much bigger way than just the visual espectacle. In 10 years, I will probably not remember a thing about most fights in MHA*, but I can still visualize some of the best moments of early One Piece as if I had the panel in front of my face.

The fact that most people remember fights like Haku and Zabuza vs Team 7, Rock Lee vs Gaara and the first Naruto vs Sasuke much better than most fights in Shippuden tells it all, really.

*Actually, I think in 10 years I'll still be salty about Uraraka losing against the I'll blow up until I kill you guy in the Tournament Arc.

Regarding visual spectacle, battles and no character growth, nothing can beat OG Saint Seiya. .That reading experience was one of a kind. As if inside a dream. For this I can forgive the wooden characters.

Battle seinen like later Jojos, 3x3 Eyes and Fist of the Blue Sky are no match for any battle shonen, when it comes to serious battles and characters at least. In 3x3 Eyes I still symphatise with poor Yakumo who was beaten to shreds and did not get a happy ending
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
My issue with Nami is more her new proportions and the way she's posed most of the time (or how she often HAS to show her asscrack) than her outfits really. That and how she's treated like just a walking sex object in everything that isn't the manga too, yikes.

Robin looks like a titty monster too and has become a non entity in general, which is super disappointing.
The fact that their storylines damsel both of them, the proportions, the unevenness of treatment.

I can't really say it's unexpected, just that it's always disappointing.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
Speaking of rape as a plot device, boy, is Berserk weird as hell about depictions of sex in general. I recently got into it because of the overwhelming praise it gets, and I did know there was sexual violence (and honestly it's one of the main reasons it took me so long to pull the trigger) but this is absurd.

I ADORE One Piece, but it's simply hasn't been the same since the time skip, and the shitty fanservice and poor treatment of its women compared to pre TS are one of the main reasons... It's depressing.
Haha, I ALSO got into Berserk very recently, finally. I'd seen the original anime series, and newer CG movies, so I knew of Casca's rape. But holy shit does the manga spend a LOT of time on it. It was super uncomfortable. I'd say it was effective, but it definitely seemed like it was meant to be titillating on more than one page...

That's backed up by later chapters (I just finished volume 20) where she's almost raped again and again, not to mention other characters. So often framed... in extremely titillating ways.

Like holy shit calm the fuck down we get it it's a dark story.

\:
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
The fact that their storylines damsel both of them, the proportions, the unevenness of treatment.

I can't really say it's unexpected, just that it's always disappointing.

Yeah, it sucks that in both Derrosa and Whole Cake Island both female crew members are kind of put into damnsel situations. At least Whole Cake Island started having Women that weren't the exact same fanservice shape again.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,013
*Actually, I think in 10 years I'll still be salty about Uraraka losing against the I'll blow up until I kill you guy in the Tournament Arc.

Win or lose, I felt that that fight and how it was portrayed was really meaningful because it felt like it was basically Horikoshi saying "I'll do justice by the female characters" Or at least what is basically the female lead anyways.

But nah I was wrong as fuck

She literally has a full lenght shirt in the new chap. GODa knew I'd post that. He got me.

Yea the previous arc had her in like 3-4 different outfits, her current one is real great.

Derrosa and Whole Cake Island

I don't recall them being put in such situations in these arcs. In fact, Nami has been fantastic in WCI, really rejuvenated her affection for her as a character.

My issue with Nami is more her new proportions and the way she's posed most of the time (or how she often HAS to show her asscrack) than her outfits really. That and how she's treated like just a walking sex object in everything that isn't the manga too, yikes.

Robin looks like a titty monster too and has become a non entity in general, which is super disappointing.

Well, the manga obviously isn't free of it, but damn, the anime knows how to exacerberate the shit outta stuff like that nowadays. Even the most mundane stuff, and it can just come out of nowhere
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,433
Well, the manga obviously isn't free of it, but damn, the anime knows how to exacerberate the shit outta stuff like that nowadays. Even the most mundane stuff, and it can just come out of nowhere
Toei is pretty bad about that. They shoehorned in shit like a beach episode for World Trigger's anime despite the manga having zero fanservice at all. And they did it behind the mangaka's back.

If I remember correctly after the episode aired the anime team cut off communication and waited until the ratings came back positive so that they could assert their position that it was okay. It is kind of fucked looking back on it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The number one hyperactive, knuckleheaded ninja who never gives up.

Remove "ninja" and that's half of all shounen protagonists. Remove "hyperactive" and it's literally every single one of them. As far as characterization goes, it doesn't get much more generic than that.

I guess making your character's one defining trait "never gives up" is kind of a must if you aspire to write a story with several hundred chapters...
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,296
Remove "ninja" and that's half of all shounen protagonists. Remove "hyperactive" and it's literally every single one of them. As far as characterization goes, it doesn't get much more generic than that.

I guess making your character's one defining trait "never gives up" is kind of a must if you aspire to write a story with several hundred chapters...
Not to mention making the goal extremely vague and a cast of characters all attempting to become memes. Sasuke might just be teenage angst personified.

edit: I am freaking loving Wotakoi.
 
Last edited:

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Not to mention making the goal extremely vague and a cast of characters all attempting to become memes. Sasuke might just be teenage angst personified.

I don't know what's worse, that, or having a clear goal that is then moved back and back due to the series' success. Extreme case in point, Aizen in Bleach: charismatic, intelligent antagonist that is set as extremely powerful... so let's have half a dozen arcs and introduce half a hundred underlings before we get to fight him.

edit: I am freaking loving Wotakoi.

*googles*
Wow, this looks pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgNHBnGr5Rw
I love how it's pretty much a MH Switch ad, too. :D Gotta watch this with the missus, who's even more addicted to MH than I am. The bit about her not getting a Rathalos Ruby and him getting two slayed me, because it's like that for us... with the genders reversed. :P
 

RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
I don't know what's worse, that, or having a clear goal that is then moved back and back due to the series' success. Extreme case in point, Aizen in Bleach: charismatic, intelligent antagonist that is set as extremely powerful... so let's have half a dozen arcs and introduce half a hundred underlings before we get to fight him.



*googles*
Wow, this looks pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgNHBnGr5Rw
I love how it's pretty much a MH Switch ad, too. :D Gotta watch this with the missus, who's even more addicted to MH than I am. The bit about her not getting a Rathalos Ruby and him getting two slayed me, because it's like that for us... with the genders reversed. :P

Recovery of a MMO junkie was a surprisingly charming heartwarming series too. It's about a 30 years old woman who gets tired of her shitty office job and decides to become a hikimori with the money she had saved. She joins a MMO, becomes part of a guild and everything. The series is mostly a comedy and slice of life series, with romantic elements that become more important as the story progresses. I think it does a good job showing the social interactions among MMO players.

I think it's been recommended here before.

I've been watching Children of the Whales lately and the first few episodes have been really good. It's a Netflix original.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Recovery of a MMO junkie was a surprisingly charming heartwarming series too. It's about a 30 years old woman who gets tired of her shitty office job and decides to become a hikimori with the money she had saved. She joins a MMO, becomes part of a guild and everything. The series is mostly a comedy and slice of life series, with romantic elements that become more important as the story progresses. I think it does a good job showing the social interactions among MMO players.

I think it's been recommended here before.

I've been watching Children of the Whales lately and the first few episodes have been really good. It's a Netflix original.

Thanks for the recommendations! The missus and I are watching Aggretsuko right now, also on Netflix, but episodes are quite short so we're bound to start watching your recommendations later (I've already told her about Tokyo Ghoul).

By the way, anyone with Netflix, absolutely do not sleep on 3%. It's an incredible series, and the second season is even more intense than the first. Surprise of the year for me.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
The latest (now-locked) Lara Croft thread is further proof that gamers badly need a huge dose of feminism in their lives.

To say I am disappointed would be a dramatic understatement. Frankly, I'm sickened. Totally sick of this sort of behavior and it's even creepier that there are dudes flying in to defend that sort of behavior, as though there were ever any merit to it in the first place. Gotta defend their right to objectify, I guess. After all, when you're so used to having that sort of privilege, anything resembling equality apparently feels like oppression.

Sigh.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
The latest (now-locked) Lara Croft thread is further proof that gamers badly need a huge dose of feminism in their lives.

To say I am disappointed would be a dramatic understatement. Frankly, I'm sickened. Totally sick of this sort of behavior and it's even creepier that there are dudes flying in to defend that sort of behavior, as though there were ever any merit to it in the first place. Gotta defend their right to objectify, I guess. After all, when you're so used to having that sort of privilege, anything resembling equality apparently feels like oppression.

Sigh.

I'm sickened, disgusted, but sadly, not surprised. There seems to be a pride in how pig like and sexist gamers can be and its just so frustrating.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,708
Elysium
The latest (now-locked) Lara Croft thread is further proof that gamers badly need a huge dose of feminism in their lives.

To say I am disappointed would be a dramatic understatement. Frankly, I'm sickened. Totally sick of this sort of behavior and it's even creepier that there are dudes flying in to defend that sort of behavior, as though there were ever any merit to it in the first place. Gotta defend their right to objectify, I guess. After all, when you're so used to having that sort of privilege, anything resembling equality apparently feels like oppression.

Sigh.

Yeah, I never got to post in the thread as I just saw it when it was locked but I think those comments were very unnecessary given the content of the thread.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
Yeah.

Incredibly disappointed that the broader gaming community still hasn't grown up one iota, but not really surprised.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
Yes, the thread was a sad read. The comments in regards to the swimming gif, the people saying the woman from The Last of Us Part Two looks mannish, the comments saying Lara gained weight/looked chubby, and the "Aloy looks ugly" rehash really shows how women are seen.
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,433
It's always weird to see threads like that and that one Incredibles 2 thread devolve into gross ogling threads.
 

CrazyHal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,327
I'm playing with Granblue Fantasy for the first time and while it has a ton of sexy and busty ladies who look like they're posing for a fashion magazine, there is some pretty cool designs are and there.

aK4P5cU.png



WBzYMHH.png



Er9NepH.png



0O3oR0q.png



v662Ig4.png



nIH9mN2.png



DxQrfSz.png
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Yes, the thread was a sad read. The comments in regards to the swimming gif, the people saying the woman from The Last of Us Part Two looks mannish, the comments saying Lara gained weight/looked chubby, and the "Aloy looks ugly" rehash really shows how women are seen.
Yeah, I'm liking this trend of making female characters swole in settings where survival is a big issue. I can take new Lara more seriously as an action hero when she resembles Terminator 2 Linda Hamilton instead of Gal Gadot.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Remove "ninja" and that's half of all shounen protagonists. Remove "hyperactive" and it's literally every single one of them. As far as characterization goes, it doesn't get much more generic than that.

I guess making your character's one defining trait "never gives up" is kind of a must if you aspire to write a story with several hundred chapters...

If you just consider Battle Shounen, sure, that can be true. Not sure how that applies to manga in the same demography with different genres like Death Note, Slam Dunk, A Silent Voice, Fumetsu no Anata e, Aria, Your Life in April, Claymore, Mahoutsukai no Yome, Aku no Hana, Kakegurui, any romance/romcom manga and and many others
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,552
The Netherlands
Yes, the thread was a sad read. The comments in regards to the swimming gif, the people saying the woman from The Last of Us Part Two looks mannish, the comments saying Lara gained weight/looked chubby, and the "Aloy looks ugly" rehash really shows how women are seen.

It's a shame the thread turned into a wasted potential. We could have had a cool discussion about Lara's different models and the realistic aspect of the new one.

I also hate these type of threads where we need guys making sure everyone knows how turned on they are, knowing there are women reading as well. How out of touch can you be?
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
It's a shame the thread turned into a wasted potential. We could have had a cool discussion about Lara's different models and the realistic aspect of the new one.

I also hate these type of threads where we need guys making sure everyone knows how turned on they are, knowing there are women reading as well. How out of touch can you be?
I literally asked a dude if he would behave that way in my presence, and he straight-up said "yes".

I think that says everything about how they feel about what women think.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,745
I literally asked a dude if he would behave that way in my presence, and he straight-up said "yes".

I think that says everything about how they feel about what women think.
They think every place is a place for them to do what they want - which is pretty much why when they were told to knock it off and get back to the actual thread topic, somehow they turned it round to them being persecuted. Like, huh?
 

RalchAC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
825
Weltall Zero I'll take that so far you're liking Tokyo Ghoul then?

If you just consider Battle Shounen, sure, that can be true. Not sure how that applies to manga in the same demography with different genres like Death Note, Slam Dunk, A Silent Voice, Fumetsu no Anata e, Aria, Your Life in April, Claymore, Mahoutsukai no Yome, Aku no Hana, Kakegurui, any romance/romcom manga and and many others

Traditional demographics have been eroding in the last few years in the whole world, TBH, Japan included. In the last few years the split between male and female readers in Weekly Shonen Jump is almost half and half. Some series even have a higher amount of women reader count, IIRC Haikyuu being one of them. Certain types of series are usually put in one magazine or the other because, even if those differences become blurrier and blurrier, it's practical to keep those categories.

It's a shame the thread turned into a wasted potential. We could have had a cool discussion about Lara's different models and the realistic aspect of the new one.

I also hate these type of threads where we need guys making sure everyone knows how turned on they are, knowing there are women reading as well. How out of touch can you be?

I can¡t take seriously any person that says Aloy is ugly. Not your type? Ok. Ugly? I don't know in which kind of world you live.

In TLOU2 defense, the characters have been living in a world full of zombies for half of their lives. I'm sure looking feminene isn't one of Ellie's priorities in the series, and I'm glad that they went that route. Her design looked really good overall. I liked the tatoos she had in her arm too.

I absolutely loved Freya in the latest God of War too.

I'd say that before feminism, people need a dose of empathy and common sense first.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,008
Canada
I also hate these type of threads where we need guys making sure everyone knows how turned on they are, knowing there are women reading as well. How out of touch can you be?

A bunch of people were calling that thread and the moderation, puritan or sex-negative. Yet I really doubt those same guys would openly talk about objectifying body parts or act out in that manner in public.

I'm sure that internet anonymity is a large factor, but I also think there's an attitude where guys online act as though they're over at their buddies place, fully comfortable saying what they normally wouldn't dare say around strangers.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
A bunch of people were calling that thread and the moderation, puritan or sex-negative. Yet I really doubt those same guys would openly talk about objectifying body parts or act out in that manner in public.

I'm sure that internet anonymity is a large factor, but I also think there's an attitude where guys online act as though they're over at their buddies place, fully comfortable saying what they normally wouldn't dare say around strangers.
If I could introduce you to some people I know...

Literally bragging about dressing up women in DOAX3, or whichever one or is, in front of a woman who's made it perfectly clear that she finds it repulsive and offensive.

Literally telling a woman he doesn't think sexism exists, a mere day after calling another woman a fat bitch as a joke behind her back.

It's

Yeah
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Weltall Zero I'll take that so far you're liking Tokyo Ghoul then?



Traditional demographics have been eroding in the last few years in the whole world, TBH, Japan included. In the last few years the split between male and female readers in Weekly Shonen Jump is almost half and half. Some series even have a higher amount of women reader count, IIRC Haikyuu being one of them. Certain types of series are usually put in one magazine or the other because, even if those differences become blurrier and blurrier, it's practical to keep those categories.



I can¡t take seriously any person that says Aloy is ugly. Not your type? Ok. Ugly? I don't know in which kind of world you live.

In TLOU2 defense, the characters have been living in a world full of zombies for half of their lives. I'm sure looking feminene isn't one of Ellie's priorities in the series, and I'm glad that they went that route. Her design looked really good overall. I liked the tatoos she had in her arm too.

I absolutely loved Freya in the latest God of War too.

I'd say that before feminism, people need a dose of empathy and common sense first.

Well, I know that the actual demography of people reading is divided. It's always like that in the actual demographics of the magazine. I'm talking about the demography of the magazines being marketed as shounen and thus, the manga being shounen.

With the exception of Shoujo and Josei which has the absolute majority of female (with like 3% of men), Shounen always had girls and women reading them even if they were the minority compared to the male. In Seinen magazines you'll see less but they're there too. And also in all of those ones you have people with different ages reading them. For example, here's 4 magazines from Shueisha:

Shounen:
Shounen Jump
9 years or less (3,2%), 10-12 (9,6%), 13-15 (16,4%), 16-18 (17,6%), 19-24 (25,8%), 25 years or more (27,4%)

Shoujo:
Margaret
13 years or less (18%), 14-16 (31%), 17-19 (27%), 20 years or more (24%)

Seinen:
Young Jump
Between 20 and 27 years (48,8%) more than 28 years (32,3%)

Josei:
You
30 years or less (22,1%), 31-34 (9,5), 35-39 (7,8%), 40-44 (11,1%), 45-49 (13%), 50 years or more (35,7%)
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,693
Yes, the thread was a sad read. The comments in regards to the swimming gif, the people saying the woman from The Last of Us Part Two looks mannish, the comments saying Lara gained weight/looked chubby, and the "Aloy looks ugly" rehash really shows how women are seen.
There were people back in gaf that said rottr lara was ugly and masculine, so it's not surprising unfortunately that there were reactions to a more muscular lara like that. Some people only want lara to be in the tight shorts and dual wield and nothing else.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
I'm playing with Granblue Fantasy for the first time and while it has a ton of sexy and busty ladies who look like they're posing for a fashion magazine, there is some pretty cool designs are and there.

aK4P5cU.png

So I know nothing about Granblue, but is this supposed to be a reference to Sapphire from Princess Knight?
If so, you have my attention, lol.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
There were people back in gaf that said rottr lara was ugly and masculine, so it's not surprising unfortunately that there were reactions to a more muscular lara like that. Some people only want lara to be in the tight shorts and dual wield and nothing else.

Wait, what? Seriously? Rotr Lara (and 2013) would be a model in reality. lol
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,693
Wait, what? Seriously? Rotr Lara (and 2013) would be a model in reality. lol
Yea, and even a few people in thread here with the boxart reveal. Forgot the name, but that one guy who absolutely hates everything about the reboot. They posted a screenshot of lara in I think tomb raider 3 maybe in the blue bikini and said that's the type of woman to look up to.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,036
Prob just lacking in the t&a department and envious. 300 pages huh ?

Ok I know I am miles behind in this thread as it goes too fast for me to keep up with and I know this user got banned for this shit but I really need to just say what the fuck is wrong with people? I mean seriously? My faith in humanity is often questioned when idiots like this still walk the planet.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,207
I literally asked a dude if he would behave that way in my presence, and he straight-up said "yes".

I think that says everything about how they feel about what women think.

Which is why it's great we have active mods who don't allow that gross behavior :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Tokyo Ghoul has some great trans representation, I'll give it that. That and Yuureitou are the only manga series I've read with prominemt trans men characters.

Did end up dropping TG though as it was getting way too convoluted and wordy.
 
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