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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Anime is better looking but makes the cluckstee fuck story even more clusterfuck
An then we have the RE manga
Bayonetta on the Switch (well, I guess technically on the WiiU first, but whatever) is ironically (given its Nintendo) a MUCH lewder game if you use those Peach costumes, as the mini skirt makes every cutscene terribly unconfortable with all the ass shots (well, if they werent already of course).
Is mini skirt panty shot worst than skinny suit ass shoot??
Man, I still haven't played my day one copy of Bayo 2.
EDIT: Sorry, thought this was a different thread. Don't have anything on-topic to contribute this time, I'm afraid.
EDIT: Sorry, thought this was a different thread. Don't have anything on-topic to contribute this time, I'm afraid.
Pretty ironic considering a big focus of this reboot is about making Laura Croft more than just tits and ass. And yet that's all some people can focus on with her designs.
I mean, the whole point of the thread was about the design (it just went full south)
When did I say it wasn't? If you read my post again, you'll see I take issue with people focusing on the tits and ass of her design. I much more enjoyed the other discussion going on about muscular women in gaming. That was a positive discussion on character design.
For some realsn i read " and all people can do if focus on her design"
Mea culpa
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Maybe is somethjng you wont notice once in motion, but from those stills i didnt like the model.
If the imideanwas to give her a buffer adventurer look, for someone doing parkour, climbing and CQC, her arms are to thin (altought muscular) and she has the weist of a deadweight lifter
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I'd say so personally. It's technically more revealing and arguably more "erotic".
What are you trying to prove with these videos?
And I would say yes, the miniskirt is worse, when you can see her butt cheeks and underwear, yeah, the default outfit is not on the same level as that.
Perspective on the matter of lewdness, seeing her on her dafualt outfit one "might get used" to her body figure, while her peach outfit hides some of her featurs till you get the eye candy shots.
I personally thing her default outfit is worst cuase imo is just her naked but with black color tint over, so I played with link or Samus suit
Oof some rough responses in there...
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So here's a great video analyzing the sexualization of women in Xenoblade 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNkWXwyjdk
And as always, don't read the fucking comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNkWXwyjdk
And as always, don't read the fucking comments.
Great well-thought-through video, quite an elegant summary of the character design conversation surrounding XB2 that we had here. Some good links afterwards too.
I couldn't avoid looking at the comments though... here's an example:
I'm a huuuuge Xeno series fan... this video sums up basically why I had trouble really digging my teeth into the game. Gameplay is one things (good not great), but the story takes just about any opportunity it can to fetishize its females to the point that strip clubs feel way too subtle by comparison.
For how many female japanese-made heroines there are.... so few feel empowering.
Cutscenes in Xenoblade 2 felt like exercises in how women can be shown off to "dance" on-screen, and way less characterized.
I almost literally cling to Morag for being one of the only characters (so sad how literal this is to say) to not be constant eye candy (i.e.; one of the few characters who wouldn't be a total distraction during cutscenes).
Anyways, thank Christ for this topic. It feels 'safe' here to talk about this sorta bullshit (because yeah that YouTube Likes/Dislikes bar is....irrationally skewed)
lol yeah that comment (watch the vid)
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The sad thing is that the vid is really just the most basic issues and unraveling all the unrepentant bullshit distracting from actual discourse. We should be at a point where discussing scopophilia and its implications in video games is the order of the day, not just (still) breaking down childish responses to complex problems.
The thing I appreciate most about this XC2 video is that it at least discusses how some of the specific instances in the game might be averted, and explains why the game is constantly trying to have it both ways. Again, in goofy games like Gal Gun or Senran Kagura, it might be expected, but a character cannot be taken seriously if only their words ever reflect any semblance of that seriousness. As the video says, it's about consistency.
I disagree about Nia's transformed state, but that's mostly because the rest of the female cast doesn't strike me as having a reason for their ridiculous outfits. If Nia was a standout in that outfit, the outfit being used as a means of denoting freedom would make sense. But in a female character line up full of such outfits, it just comes across as another on the pile. Effectively, this is basically a case of sexualization harming at two fronts, since it doesn't just harm the characters directly, but indirectly affects their ability to be taken seriously as having moments of purposeful divergence, especially when they fit within normalized sexualization (because even if the design was purposeful, it has no impact when it is simply the character fitting into the rest of the visually stereotyped cast).
I feel like this quote from Ta-Nehisi Coates about Crash (the film) is very applicable to XC2 and most jRPGs (and honestly, quite a lot of story-based games, esp. those from larger publishers and developers).
The thing I appreciate most about this XC2 video is that it at least discusses how some of the specific instances in the game might be averted, and explains why the game is constantly trying to have it both ways. Again, in goofy games like Gal Gun or Senran Kagura, it might be expected, but a character cannot be taken seriously if only their words ever reflect any semblance of that seriousness. As the video says, it's about consistency.
I disagree about Nia's transformed state, but that's mostly because the rest of the female cast doesn't strike me as having a reason for their ridiculous outfits. If Nia was a standout in that outfit, the outfit being used as a means of denoting freedom would make sense. But in a female character line up full of such outfits, it just comes across as another on the pile. Effectively, this is basically a case of sexualization harming at two fronts, since it doesn't just harm the characters directly, but indirectly affects their ability to be taken seriously as having moments of purposeful divergence, especially when they fit within normalized sexualization (because even if the design was purposeful, it has no impact when it is simply the character fitting into the rest of the visually stereotyped cast).
I feel like this quote from Ta-Nehisi Coates about Crash (the film) is very applicable to XC2 and most jRPGs (and honestly, quite a lot of story-based games, esp. those from larger publishers and developers).
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Yeah, by having that sense of freedom depicted as the same stereotypically sexualised design as everything else, it misfires on 'I choose to do my own thing and be sexually expressive' (which is otherwise totally cool), when the default for other females characters already pursuing their own path= sexualised design. It's completely confused as it's trying to have its cake and eat it, it's not a spectacular display of individuality and sexuality when the new outfit is built along the same priorities as most of the the other female outfits. The characterisation and conclusion of the arc gets lost when apparently almost every young woman's free choice of clothes is combat lingerie for some reason.
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Wooow that Tomb Raider thread was a piping hot mess. Ugh ugh ugh.
(On a tangentially related note, should I play the new Tomb Raider games?)
Also, 1m views. What the fuck.
(On a tangentially related note, should I play the new Tomb Raider games?)
Also, 1m views. What the fuck.
They are good Third Person shooters. If you are into that, they are worth playing.
The story is bad. The puzzles are sparse.
It's a long video (53 min) but I'll make the time to watch it since you guys (lads?) are saying it's a good video.
You're gay, right? Lara is hot, all the info you need to know.
Yes, that was satire. On a more serious note, they're not bad games, if you like the genre. Just don't expect, well... anything from a story/writing standpoint.
As a guy reading that quote...ew. It's a fantasy cartoon character. Most of them, honestly, are pretty deformed looking and some even have tails. I'm supposed to be attracted to that? As a guy, I thought I was supposed to be in love with Marilyn Monroe, not creepy boob monster cartoon characters in bizarre stripper outfits.
And why am I looking to be horny 24/7? Why can't I just play a game that's a game, and keep porn separate from my other forms of entertainment.
I know this isn't really a guy thread, but there's a good reason why men criticism sexualized designs as well. If nothing else, I don't like being told what's sexy, or that I'm supposed to constantly wallow in it everytime i watch a movie or play a game.
No. They're paint-by-numbers third person shooters with nothing interesting going for them gameplay-wise, the focus is entirely on the story and it's dogshit. They're like Uncharted games without the charm and with more bloat.
Aggretsuko is so real, damn. Great stuff.
Dear God, day was going alright before reading through that crap. Gamers were a mistake.
Wow, that's harsh. I thought the bow was really fun to use in the first game atleast, didn't play the second one. It's a nice game to look and listen at, nice setpieces and the high production value is apparent. But also bit annoying how much it reduces the gameplay to just quick time events, since it didn't have to. It's not a Telltale game so let me have more control. The tomb puzzles were nice, too bad they ruined any sense of discovery by literally pointing out the tombs with big text on UI and arrows on walls. 7/10. Didn't finish it.
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I don't love the connection between a woman being able to truly express yourself and normative expressions of sexuality, honestly... As if the best way to show she's truly living for herself now is for her to look sexy in just the way the presumed straight male audience will like.
Women's media is guilty of this too, of course, with all the take-off-the-glasses, straighten-your-hair makeovers. That are thankfully less common now, but probably just because people started making fun of it.
I don't know if this is just me reaching some sort of feminist state of peace, but I genuinely think it's hilarious when you get some internet philosopher saying "those feminists are fine as long as they don't try to do anything."
Women's media is guilty of this too, of course, with all the take-off-the-glasses, straighten-your-hair makeovers. That are thankfully less common now, but probably just because people started making fun of it.
I don't know if this is just me reaching some sort of feminist state of peace, but I genuinely think it's hilarious when you get some internet philosopher saying "those feminists are fine as long as they don't try to do anything."
The bow is fun to use, it is at least the best part of the games
Flinging arrows at people's faces gets anjoyful chuckle out of me in the games
In Rice u can also fling explosive arrows, fire arrows and poison arrows too for more fun~
I'd say no, without the doubt one of the most boring games I've played. A bad game is bad, a boring game is worse. I'll copy and paste a post I made, There's end game spoilers but who gives a shit, story is boring.
Couldn't agree more (except where you wrote "where" instead of "were", shaaaame). Bland spaghetti is a great metaphor haha.
I find it equally amusing that, after watching a video nearly an hour long and reading a comment packed with insults, the only evidence of 'feeble-minded', 'misguided, unintelligent', and 'sensitive' thought processes are in the piece a fraction of the size of the other.
Also apparently a man is only acting like a real man if he wants his dick stroked constantly. It's not just feminists and the video creator the comment is insulting towards, it's unintentionally fucking embarrassing towards guys in general too.
Reminded me of this. Sometimes I feel like this thread is an island of sanity.
All that 'oh look she's hot if she takes her glasses off, gets a haircut, learns how to pose and wears a dress', evident in 'she's all that' etc, always reminds me of my English Lit. classes reading 'Taming of the Shrew'. My teacher, a gem of an old lady with a pointed turn of phrase who eventually pointed me towards working in publishing 25 years ago, was practically rolling her eyes from the moment she held up the book cover! :D
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Speaking only for the first one, do you want to play a very average video game? Then go ahead.
The Tomb Raider reboot feels like a game where half the gameplay systems were implemented and then removed when a focus group didn't like them. The game gives you tutorials for survival gameplay that would fit with the story's theme, but all the actual gameplay aspects are just missing after the first time you encounter them. The game teaches you that your base camp is important, that you need to keep warm and hunt animals for food, and then it's all just nothing. You can hunt different kinds of animals, but they only give you XP. You can "craft" additions to your weapons, but instead of having to get materials you can use in different ways, you just run across generic crates that have "upgrade part 1/3" or whatever.
The stealthy bow combat is fun, but it's not very effective later in the game.
I'm still reading he thread but it looks like people are upset that they have her a bit of a gut, agreed that that's not cool.
This being a game forum, the first thing my mind jumped to when it read "Crash" was Crash Bandicoot and I was like, "Man, Coates is really going in on Naughty Dog huh"
That was my first though. My second was to the David Cronenberg film about people who get turned on by car crashes...
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She definitely is more bulked, they probably should bulk up her arms a bit too imo just to make everything proportional, but I dont mind if thats what they want to go for, I don't see why this should be controversial.
But really only Super Metroid. Every game afterwards waifu'd her a bit too much. Zero Mission is ok in this I guess but it's Super Metroid that remembers to give her muscle tone.
I think the Prime games and the recent Samus Returns qualify too but I agree. I thought the Zero Suit was awful enough but they did the impossible and "prettied up" a damn space soldier suit in some of the games, Other M being the worst offender.
Edit: Oh you meant Samus' actual body.
Well yeah, but your point is also true. Like, I get the point of the Zero Suit being an under-armor thing but like, it's been prettied up way too much.
Exactly, I hated it. She went from being relatively niche to "that one Nintendo waifu from Smash", sigh.
Horizon? Aloy's not bulky, but she's toned, at least.
Dishonored 2 and Death of the Outsider are good too. Billie Lurk is pretty badass.
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