I thought Billie was different damn it. Why couldn't they get the og?
Let's be honest Sam hasn't been super important since he was Lucy's meatsuit. At least now he has the subplot with JackSide note: I was a bit miffed also that, once again, Dean gets the plot-important, dramatic scene. Can they let Sam have something, please?
Even Death was like, "You, Dean, cannot die because you're important. Also your brother or something. I guess."
Yeah, but that was 8 years ago. Like, that's almost an entire run of Smallville with Clark bring secondary to Jason Teague.Let's be honest Sam hasn't been super important since he was Lucy's meatsuit. At least now he has the subplot with Jack
I honestly think the problem is that the original vision of the show was for Sam to be the main character. And while I will praise his acting chops he just happened to costar with one of the best actors I've ever seen. So Dean took a step forward and now he's the main character and it's jarring for people who expect Sam to be mainYeah, but that was 8 years ago. Like, that's almost an entire run of Smallville with Clark bring secondary to Jason Teague.
Ackles auditioned for Sam, too, didn't he? Or was it Padalecki who auditioned for Dean?I honestly think the problem is that the original vision of the show was for Sam to be the main character. And while I will praise his acting chops he just happened to costar with one of the best actors I've ever seen. So Dean took a step forward and now he's the main character and it's jarring for people who expect Sam to be main
I can't remember I think Padalecki auditioned for Dean but they though it would be funny if the older brother was shorter. AFAIRAckles auditioned for Sam, too, didn't he? Or was it Padalecki who auditioned for Dean?
I wonder how that version of the show would have turned out.
I also wonder if they didn't want Padalecki to be Dean so people won't think it's the same dude from Gilmore Girls now hunting monsters.I can't remember I think Padalecki auditioned for Dean but they though it would be funny if the older brother was shorter. AFAIR
I thought this week's ghost was the scariest one since the early seasons.I'm really digging what they're doing with this season's story telling, where they're doing these very MotW episodes but are also making them plot relevant. I really hope this keeps up through the entire season.
No kidding. I honestly thought that the mask the kid took was going to cause all kinds of problems, I didn't expect the episode to go the way it did.I thought this week's ghost was the scariest one since the early seasons.
Those plague masks are scary as shit.
The "Cosmic Entity" that rules The Empty said last week that God had no power in The Empty. There's no reason to think archangels wouldn't go there.I wonder if archangels go to the Empty, actually. Remember when God said in season 11 that He couldn't just instantly revive archangels because whatever reasons? Seems like it wouldn't be a thing if He could just go to the Empty and just wake 'em up. Or maybe He just didn't feel like it and lied about it.
Totally forgot about that. But God can revive angels and probably whatever else He wants, though, so He must have at least some power there. "Nothing comes back from [the Empty]," but Castiel does a few times.The "Cosmic Entity" that rules The Empty said last week that God had no power in The Empty. There's no reason to think archangels wouldn't go there.
Me, too. There are so many avenues to do it this season, too, given the Empty, Jack, and the alt world.I just want Gabe back y'all. Even if he's human to avoid power creep. Just bring him back
As far as we know the only archangels there are Gabe and and Raphael.Totally forgot about that. But God can revive angels and probably whatever else He wants, though, so He must have at least some power there. "Nothing comes back from [the Empty]," but Castiel does a few times.
Plus, if even a lesser being like Jack (who is albeit extremely powerful) can wake someone up there, I don't see why God or Amara couldn't. Maybe archangels are just heavy sleepers?
Me, too. There are so many avenues to do it this season, too, given the Empty, Jack, and the alt world.
What about alt-Lucifer? Are there multiple Empties? Does God hold dominion over all realities or just ours?As far as we know the only archangels there are Gabe and and Raphael.
I thought about this. Even Gadreel res'd Cas once, but I take it as Cas only just died so he didn't get to the Empty yet. Since no angels have been resurrected other than right after they've died, this makes sense to me. Just as humans don't get to Heaven/Hell instantly. Every time Cas was resurrected, it wasn't long after he died. But if they get to The Empty, then it's over. I guess?Totally forgot about that. But God can revive angels and probably whatever else He wants, though, so He must have at least some power there. "Nothing comes back from [the Empty]," but Castiel does a few times.
Plus, if even a lesser being like Jack (who is albeit extremely powerful) can wake someone up there, I don't see why God or Amara couldn't. Maybe archangels are just heavy sleepers?
Me, too. There are so many avenues to do it this season, too, given the Empty, Jack, and the alt world.
Well there's definitely multiple Heavens and Hells, so probably multiple Empties and Gods as well? Unless we learn otherwise, I suppose.What about alt-Lucifer? Are there multiple Empties? Does God hold dominion over all realities or just ours?
Death was never a reaper though, he was a Horsemen. The Horsemen are their own species. It makes sense that Death predates angels and reapers because he is neither, he his own thing like all of the Horsemen.Pretty good episode. I do like how they sorta solved the issue with Death, despite it being silly. We know reapers are angels(which is honestly the stupidest shit ever, because, Death is at least as old as God, which means he predates Angels, so how the fuck did he become Death in the first place? This would've made sense had they not ruined shit with reapers being a class of angel. I do dig the new scythe though, that shit is badass. I too hope Death is just chilling somewhere because he's tired of having to revive Sam & Dean due to some universe reason. Maybe Death is in the empty, and awoke due to Castiel and will come back and take his place! I hope.
Damn Jensen for making me shed tears though, his speech with Billie made me cry :(.
Death was something new entirely. He was on par with Chuck. A total cosmic entity.
Yup, this.Death was something new entirely. He was on par with Chuck. A total cosmic entity.
Yeh that's what I was getting at, that makes this whole thing annoying for me. Why would an angel suddenly ascend to the rank of Horsemen? It doesn't make much sense to me. Take over temporarily, sure, but to be Death the horsemen is stupid.Death was never a reaper though, he was a Horsemen. The Horsemen are their own species. It makes sense that Death predates angels and reapers because he is neither, he his own thing like all of the Horsemen.
Angels being reapers was pretty terrible though.
Death isn't just a horseman though, he's like Chuck: a force of nature. His abilities were far beyond the other horseman and even says Lucifer had bound him with a spell. He wasn't born a horseman, he was born Death and going of the logic of the show there always needs to be a Death. Having a dead reaper become Death, should the OG Death die, is a pretty poetic way of going about it.Yeh that's what I was getting at, that makes this whole thing annoying for me. Why would an angel suddenly ascend to the rank of Horsemen? It doesn't make much sense to me. Take over temporarily, sure, but to be Death the horsemen is stupid.
B-Dubs explains it well. Death was never a reaper/angel, he never ascended in power/rank to become Death like Billie, he has always been Death, a "primordial entity" as the wiki puts it, and he's been like that since pretty much the start of everything. All the show introduced was that on the event the OG Death dies, a reaper will take his place. It doesn't change anything about the OG Death, just introduced lore on what happens if the OG Death dies. Billie is the first reaper to ever become the new Death.Yeh that's what I was getting at, that makes this whole thing annoying for me. Why would an angel suddenly ascend to the rank of Horsemen? It doesn't make much sense to me. Take over temporarily, sure, but to be Death the horsemen is stupid.
As soon as Death is introduced we learn that his own sickle can kill him. We've known this since season 5.Decent episode, but I was not pleased to see Billie as Death. I'm still kinda hoping that the OG Death is just chilling somewhere gorging on fast food.
Because to go from a being that was around before God and will be around afterwards too, to be taken out by a sickle is just plain dumb and as mentioned, turns Death in yet another monster who can be 'killed'
As soon as Death is introduced we learn that his own sickle can kill him. We've known this since season 5.
As soon as Death is introduced we learn that his own sickle can kill him. We've known this since season 5.
Ah okay, I guess that's fair lol. I was looking a little too much into it.B-Dubs explains it well. Death was never a reaper/angel, he never ascended in power/rank, he has always been Death, a "primordial entity" as the wiki puts it, and he's been like that since pretty much the start of everything. All the show introduced was that on the event the OG Death dies, a reaper will take his place. It doesn't change anything about the OG Death, just introduced lore on what happens if the OG Death dies. Billie is the first reaper to ever become the new Death.
It's like if God died and then an angel took his place.
Death isn't just a horseman though, he's like Chuck: a force of nature. His abilities were far beyond the other horseman and even says Lucifer had bound him with a spell. He wasn't born a horseman, he was born Death and going of the logic of the show there always needs to be a Death. Having a dead reaper become Death, should the OG Death die, is a pretty poetic way of going about it.
Still, it is death, why would he hand the one weapon that can kill him to a emotionally unstable Winchester, did he honestly expect Dean to kill his brother? At that moment Death just became another monster who underestimated the Winchesters.
Maybe death was tired of it all and just was like Fuck it, Dean can kill me.Ah okay, I guess that's fair lol. I was looking a little too much into it.
Yeah okay. I would've preferred if Death tricked Dean into thinking he killed him, but whatever. The first reaper to die becoming Death is a bit odd though, reapers don't typically die lol.
Yup that's what a lot of people have pointed out. There's no way Death is stupid enough to believe Dean would actually kill his brother.
Loool Yeh. He probably got tired of having to let them keep coming back to life :p. Billie said that when she became Death her eyes were opened and saw that Dean and Sam are important. So likely OG Death knew that too, so he let himself be killed? Maybe as part of the plan? Because if they have a specific purpose and he knows they have one, he wouldn't let Sam permadie and put Dean in the farthest reaches of the Universe.Maybe death was tired of it all and just was like Fuck it, Dean can kill me.