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Which will you throw in the PC Storage first?

  • Pikachu

    Votes: 590 16.2%
  • Eevee

    Votes: 571 15.7%
  • Your hopes and dreams

    Votes: 2,083 57.4%
  • Jmon

    Votes: 387 10.7%

  • Total voters
    3,631

Thornquist

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,501
Norway
This isn't just pandering anymore. It's the second remake of the damn games. It's Gen 4's turn for the remake. This isn't fair to the vast majority of the fan base who buys these games.

I'll be honest here, I'm 100% certain that Pokemon Go wouldn't have been as successful if it included all 700'ish that was available to Nantic at the time. Part of the appeal with the first 150 is their more simplified design (because of hardware limitations) and because of simplicity. "Catching them all" seems easier when there is only 150.

You guys just seem a bit unreasonable here. You will get your game, let people who enjoy the 150 have their game. The hardcore fanbase will just have to accept that Gen 1 will be pandered to more than any other. Gen 1 was the phenomenon back in the days. Nostalgia sells. And Nintendo/GF won't ignore this market.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
That proves nothing. The same exact thing would have happened if it were Gen 8 that had been announced.

Who do you think is buying a Switch for these games though? It's not especially the core fans, since the response is resoundingly negative there.

My point is that it's clearly attracting an audience that hasn't been with the series for a while. Something previous entries failed to achieve.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,692
I'll be honest here, I'm 100% certain that Pokemon Go wouldn't have been as successful if it included all 700'ish that was available to Nantic at the time. Part of the appeal with the first 150 is their more simplified design (because of hardware limitations) and because of simplicity. "Catching them all" seems easier when there is only 150.

You guys just seem a bit unreasonable here. You will get your game, let people who enjoy the 150 have their game. You guys will just have to accept that Gen 1 will be pandered to more than any other. Gen 1 was the phenomenon back in the days. Nostalgia sells. And Nintendo/GF won't ignore this market.
The gen 5 games sold just as good as any gen, with almost no gen 1 nostalgia pandering at all.
 

perfectchaos007

It's Happening
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,250
Texas
I'll be honest here, I'm 100% certain that Pokemon Go wouldn't have been as successful if it included all 700'ish that was available to Nantic at the time. Part of the appeal with the first 150 is their more simplified design (because of hardware limitations) and because of simplicity. "Catching them all" seems easier when there is only 150.

You guys just seem a bit unreasonable here. You will get your game, let people who enjoy the 150 have their game. The hardcore fanbase will just have to accept that Gen 1 will be pandered to more than any other. Gen 1 was the phenomenon back in the days. Nostalgia sells. And Nintendo/GF won't ignore this market.

To be fair, it still felt impossible to collect the original 150 when you had to travel to all parts of the world to get the region exclusives. Hopefully all 150 are "gettable" between the 2 versions of this game without the need for travel
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I'll be honest here, I'm 100% certain that Pokemon Go wouldn't have been as successful if it included all 700'ish that was available to Nantic at the time. Part of the appeal with the first 150 is their more simplified design (because of hardware limitations) and because of simplicity. "Catching them all" seems easier when there is only 150.

You guys just seem a bit unreasonable here. You will get your game, let people who enjoy the 150 have their game. You guys will just have to accept that Gen 1 will be pandered to more than any other. Gen 1 was the phenomenon back in the days. Nostalgia sells. And Nintendo/GF won't ignore this market.

Asking that my favorite Pokémon along with hundreds of others not to be excluded is unreasonable?

Asking to not get rid of evolutions that have been established fact for years now is unreasonable?

I don't see how the people asking that 600 some Pokémon be removed so they can enjoy their nostalgia are aparently the reasonable ones here.
 

Thornquist

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,501
Norway
The gen 5 games sold just as good as any gen, with almost no gen 1 nostalgia pandering at all.
Haha, as much as Red/Blue?
Black/White sure as hell weren't no phenomenon. Only Red/Blue and Pokemon Go can claim that, and both featured the original 150.
I don't see how the people asking that 600 some Pokémon be removed so they can enjoy their nostalgia are aparently the reasonable ones here.
You are, because you will get your game soon. I thought Game Freak was quite clear on this.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
That's more in line with how 2D Mario and 3D Mario are, in that they are basically different genres at that point. What's the actual connecting line here? That Metroid and Pokemon are both video games? Because then, yes, sure whatevs.

That they both had fanbases split in what they wanted? Like, you blew this way out of proportion and started talking about gameplay differences. It honestly was just about "part of fanbase of game X wanted thing Y, part wanted Z." And then relating about how expecting one side of the fanbase to stop wanting something for the sake of the other side to be kind of silly. If you don't agree with that, that's...cool? I don't understand why you're still harping on this point. Like, it was literally a one line remark, not an elaborate essay with it as the cornerstone of the argument.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
It's cheaper to develop with fewer monsters.

Almost all of the first gen Pokémon have been in Go since the start. So even if you haven't played it since around release when it was a worldwide phenomenon, you'll have some Pokémon there that can connect and be used in Let's Go.

And The Pokémon Company obviously seem to think that Gen 1 is the most marketable. Which is very important saleswise.

These are three possible reasons. They probably had more. Was it a good decision? We don't know yet. But if you operate under the assumption that is wasn't, then you likely won't be satisfied by any reasons.

Cheaper to develop based on what? We literally have datamined evidence that shows GF has access to all models + walking overworld models. Not to mention, they made the effort to create HD models for a reason. The whole "cheap" thing sounds more like an excuse than a viable argument.
 

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,060
Asking that my favorite Pokémon along with hundreds of others not to be excluded is unreasonable?

Asking to not get rid of evolutions that have been established fact for years now is unreasonable?

I don't see how the people asking that 600 some Pokémon be removed so they can enjoy their nostalgia are aparently the reasonable ones here.
Who is asking that? Some guy on Facebook?

You guys should write a letter to Game Freak instead of getting angry at people that barely exist. They're the ones that make the decisions.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,692
I was always surprised B/W didn't outsell every Pokemon ever considering it came out at the height of the best selling portable of all time.

It was 2011 (worldwide launch), already past the peak of the ds.
Haha, as much as Red/Blue?
Black/White sure as hell weren't no phenomenon. Only Red/Blue and Pokemon Go can claim that, and both featured the original 150.

You are, because you will get your game soon. I thought Game Freak was quite clear on this.
No, but as much as gen 3, 4, 6, and 7. XY and SM had boatloads of gen 1 nostalgia, but that didn't help sales at all. FRLG didn't sell as good.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,928
It's cheaper to develop with fewer monsters.

Almost all of the first gen Pokémon have been in Go since the start. So even if you haven't played it since around release when it was a worldwide phenomenon, you'll have some Pokémon there that can connect and be used in Let's Go.

And The Pokémon Company obviously seem to think that Gen 1 is the most marketable. Which is very important saleswise.

This still doesn't explain why Gen 2 evolutions aren't being included in Let's Go, even when they've already been added to Go. Their exclusion is undeniably a dick move to everyone except for the extremely small subset of people who would have complained.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Haha, as much as Red/Blue?
Black/White sure as hell weren't no phenomenon. Only Red/Blue and Pokemon Go can claim that, and both featured the original 150.

You are, because you will get your game soon. I thought Game Freak was quite clear on this.

Ok I just have wait while Gen 1 fans get special treatment while fans of Gen 2-7 just have to wait their turn.

Your right nothing about that is frustrating at all.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
They wanted to bring Go integration into the console games somehow. Better they test the waters with a Kanto remake than sully your precious True Sequel. Just consider this game as something to tide people over until the actual game you want is done.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
To be fair, it still felt impossible to collect the original 150 when you had to travel to all parts of the world to get the region exclusives. Hopefully all 150 are "gettable" between the 2 versions of this game without the need for travel

I think lately they just give out Pokemon via wifi, you don't have to leave your house to get them. Like they still do event Pokemon at specific locations, but I can't recall if there's any Pokemon in specific that they forced you to travel for.

EDIT: Oh, my bad, misread your post. Yeah nevermind what I said.
 
Last edited:

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Like I said before people wouldn't be as pissy if gamefreak gave something to sit on besides some text.
 

Kiraly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,848
It's safe to say that excluding all the Pokémon outside of the original 151 is just a terrible design decision on GameFreaks part.

Even Pokémon that had a (pre-)evolution in Gen 2, which is almost two decades old by now (!), have had their line excluded.

It's up to you how much value you give this decision.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
Ok I just have wait while Gen 1 fans get special treatment while fans of Gen 2-7 just have to wait their turn.

Your right nothing about that is frustrating at all.

Would you rather a Gen 8 that looked like a 3DS game again? It's just giving those games more development time.

There's nothing to be frustrated because this is genuinely a benefit to us.

Casual fans get to have their kanto again, and core fans get a game that's been in development for a while and might actually look good. There's no one losing here.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
I'll be honest here, I'm 100% certain that Pokemon Go wouldn't have been as successful if it included all 700'ish that was available to Nantic at the time. Part of the appeal with the first 150 is their more simplified design (because of hardware limitations) and because of simplicity. "Catching them all" seems easier when there is only 150.

You guys just seem a bit unreasonable here. You will get your game, let people who enjoy the 150 have their game. The hardcore fanbase will just have to accept that Gen 1 will be pandered to more than any other. Gen 1 was the phenomenon back in the days. Nostalgia sells. And Nintendo/GF won't ignore this market.
Over 80 Gen 1 Pokemon can be found natively in Sun and Moon, about as many as there were new Pokemon total. Over 25% of the [300] roster in those games was Gen 1, with the other 75% being split up among the other 6 generations. There was nothing stopping the people who like the OG 150 from hopping in.
 

Thornquist

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,501
Norway
It was 2011 (worldwide launch), already past the peak of the ds.

No, but as much as gen 3, 4, 6, and 7. XY and SM had boatloads of gen 1 nostalgia, but that didn't help sales at all. FRLG didn't sell as good.
Maybe Game Freak figured it out with this game then. Maybe going half-assed into Gen 1 pandering isn't paying off. Maybe they need to go all the way. Time will tell. (I think it has more to do with the DS being a much more successful console than 3DS, but whatever)

Ok I just have wait while Gen 1 fans get special treatment while fans of Gen 2-7 just have to wait their turn.

Your right nothing about that is frustrating at all.
Hey I'm with you. I would prefer you got your half-assed 3DS HD game this year, and Game Freak would have spent another year making LGP/LGE.
 

Kiraly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,848
They wanted to bring Go integration into the console games somehow. Better they test the waters with a Kanto remake than sully your precious True Sequel. Just consider this game as something to tide people over until the actual game you want is done.

This argument hasn't been brought up in two dozens of pages. But the tone in your post already tells me enough. Just adding needlessly to an already toxic thread.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,928
They wanted to bring Go integration into the console games somehow. Better they test the waters with a Kanto remake than sully your precious True Sequel. Just consider this game as something to tide people over until the actual game you want is done.

So why did they have to fuck it up for the hardcore fans? People keep acting like these games can only appeal to one audience at a time, when there's no reason why Let's Go couldn't have appealed to both casual and hardcore fans.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
That they both had fanbases split in what they wanted? Like, you blew this way out of proportion and started talking about gameplay differences. It honestly was just about "part of fanbase of game X wanted thing Y, part wanted Z." And then relating about how expecting one side of the fanbase to stop wanting something for the sake of the other side to be kind of silly. If you don't agree with that, that's...cool? I don't understand why you're still harping on this point. Like, it was literally a one line remark, not an elaborate essay with it as the cornerstone of the argument.
I simply don't think MP4 potentially taking the place of a 2D Metroid fits the criteria in your post just now, while also fitting the criteria for Pokemon's situation.
 

LegendofLex

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5,476
Asking that my favorite Pokémon along with hundreds of others not to be excluded is unreasonable?

Asking to not get rid of evolutions that have been established fact for years now is unreasonable?

I don't see how the people asking that 600 some Pokémon be removed so they can enjoy their nostalgia are aparently the reasonable ones here.

I don't see why a rational business would only make products for the people already satisfied with their current product, especially one with as lucrative an IP as The Pokemon Company and the massive growth needs that come with that.

There are tons of people who have bounced off the series over time for various reasons, and many of those people play Pokemon Go despite that game not having stuff current fans have enjoyed in the DS and 3DS games--including newer Pokemon. So, yeah, I'd say that with a new traditional game coming next year it's absolutely unreasonable to declare that The Pokemon Company's other new game has to also cater to you.
 

GulAtiCa

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,545
Fuck up only according to the minority here..

And above is the weird "genwunner" unneeded insult again..
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,692
Over 80 Gen 1 Pokemon can be found natively in Sun and Moon, about as many as there were new Pokemon total. Over 25% of the [300] roster in those games was Gen 1, with the other 75% being split up among the other 6 generations. There was nothing stopping the people who like the OG 150 from hopping in.
Not to mention over a 100 out of 450 in XY, with gen 1 starters given to you near the start. There's over 30 more kanto pokemon in xy than there are new kalos pokemon total.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
I don't see why a rational business would only make products for the people already satisfied with their current product, especially one with as lucrative an IP as The Pokemon Company and the massive growth needs that come with that.
I don't see how the existence of a Crobat is enough to make someone go from a purchase to a skip. They can slap Pikachu and Eevee on the box without pretending that Eevee can't actually evolve into most of its evolutions.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
So why did they have to fuck it up for the hardcore fans? People keep acting like these games can only appeal to one audience at a time, when there's no reason why Let's Go couldn't have appealed to both casual and hardcore fans.

Are they fucking it up? It sounds like they've been working on something that needs a year more in the oven that caters exactly to what you want. Let's Go is attempting to reintroduce Go gamers into the console space and it's still a core RPG by description. It's not going to be as deep or fresh, but you can't really blame Nintendo for following Go's success.

My point is, if you have grievances they should be at GameFreak - not the consumers.

This argument hasn't been brought up in two dozens of pages. But the tone in your post already tells me enough. Just adding needlessly to an already toxic thread.

You might be projecting. I'm just tired of the condescending attitude from a bunch of Varuca Salts who actually are getting what they want. Just not at this time.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I don't see why a rational business would only make products for the people already satisfied with their current product, especially one with as lucrative an IP as The Pokemon Company and the massive growth needs that come with that.

There are tons of people who have bounced off the series over time for various reasons, and many of those people play Pokemon Go despite that game not having stuff current fans have enjoyed in the DS and 3DS games--including newer Pokemon. So, yeah, I'd say that with a new traditional game coming next year it's absolutely unreasonable to declare that The Pokemon Company's other new game has to also cater to you.
There has never been a single game that left out the original 151.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
So why did they have to fuck it up for the hardcore fans? People keep acting like these games can only appeal to one audience at a time, when there's no reason why Let's Go couldn't have appealed to both casual and hardcore fans.

Who cares? Would you rather we not get a game at all this year? Because obviously a proper console Pokemon game is gonna require more time than this.

Christ, people acting like GF is pissing in their mouths or something just by releasing a stopgap game.
 

Deleted member 35011

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
2,185
I simply don't think MP4 potentially taking the place of a 2D Metroid fits the criteria in your post just now, while also fitting the criteria for Pokemon's situation.

That's fair. Personally I think it does, but I might be stretching the comparison too much because the tone of the discussion here and around certain Metroid places is similar. If you don't feel like the analogy works, that's cool.

So why did they have to fuck it up for the hardcore fans? People keep acting like these games can only appeal to one audience at a time, when there's no reason why Let's Go couldn't have appealed to both casual and hardcore fans.

I mean, speaking as someone who is both casual and hardcore(I like nostalgic, casual shit but I also have my days of wanting harder games and have been following the series forever) I prefer that the games are split like this, honestly. I feel like in this specific case, trying to cater to every taste would just result in one "meh" product that appeals to neither. If Let's Go is aimed at casual players and we get a Gen 8 that has less handholding, I'll be stoked, and I'd much rather prefer that than to have a weird attempt at a casual/hardcore combination. Especially if the delay between the two is only a single year - I might admittedly sing a different tune if I had to wait more for the hardcore game.

Like I'm interested in a lot of the casual features in Let's Go, but I don't want to "let go" of the features they are replacing either, so I'm happy they are separate games so I can have it all.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Would you rather a Gen 8 that looked like a 3DS game again? It's just giving those games more development time.

There's nothing to be frustrated because this is genuinely a benefit to us.

Casual fans get to have their kanto again, and core fans get a game that's been in development for a while and might actually look good. There's no one losing here.
Im frustrated because I'm actually interested in this game but for some reason they decided this is the first game their going to lock out the majority of Pokémon so none of my faves are in.

But your right that I'm glad Gen 8 will hopefully have a lot of work out in.
Maybe Game Freak figured it out with this game then. Maybe going half-assed into Gen 1 pandering isn't paying off. Maybe they need to go all the way. Time will tell. (I think it has more to do with the DS being a much more successful console than 3DS, but whatever)


Hey I'm with you. I would prefer you got your half-assed 3DS HD game this year, and Game Freak would have spent another year making LGP/LGE.
Lovely. You know what you win. I sincerely hope other are able to enjoy this game. Because without my favorite Pokémon I honestly won't be able to. But I hope you find whatever it is you were looking for that the other mainline games didn't have.

I'm probably going to finally pick up Ultra Moon and hope it scratches my Pokémon itch till next year.
I didn't like S/M but I didn't go to every thread to shit on USUM when it got announced.

I'm not shitting on the game. I'm disappointed that for the first time there completely barring almost all the Pokémon from a game I'd probably be interested in otherwise.
 

Kiraly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,848
Are they fucking it up? It sounds like they've been working on something that needs a year more in the oven that caters exactly to what you want.

My point is, if you have grievances they should be at GameFreak - not the consumers.



You might be projecting. I'm just tired of the condescending attitude from a bunch of Varuca Salts.

Condescending attitude while writing shit like 'your precious true sequel' and salt yourself. Fucking laughable.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,928
Are they fucking it up? It sounds like they've been working on something that needs a year more in the oven that caters exactly to what you want.

My point is, if you have grievances they should be at GameFreak - not the consumers.

I was referring to Let's Go. They fucked it up for hardcore fans for literally no reason when they could have appealed to all audiences instead.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
Condescending attitude while writing shit like 'your precious true sequel' and salt yourself. Fucking laughable.

Is it? I'm enjoying Ultra Moon right now, but I'm not losing my shit at some monolith of Go players and 151 fans, nor calling posts "fucking laughable." I see 2019 as getting a successor to Sun & Moon, so I'm wondering where all of the outrage is coming from.

I was referring to Let's Go. They fucked it up for hardcore fans for literally no reason when they could have appealed to all audiences instead.

But they didn't fuck it up. You're getting a sequel for hardcore fans next year. This just isn't that product.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,724
Is there a reason people don't get upset at franchises like Persona and Final Fantasy and every other jrpg for using a lot of the same monsters every game?
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Is there a reason people don't get upset at franchises like Persona and Final Fantasy and every other jrpg for using a lot of the same monsters every game?
That's not a good example, why? Because they are in new games with new monsters added.

It would be like if evey final fantasy game was just FF1 over and over but they are not
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,692
Is there a reason people don't get upset at franchises like Persona and Final Fantasy and every other jrpg for using a lot of the same monsters every game?
Because those games aren't centered around the monsters? What if every single final fantasy had tons and tons of FF1 nostalgia every game, and remade it twice? Not to mention they still also add new monsters.